The Carb Struggle

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Replies

  • springlering62
    springlering62 Posts: 8,662 Member
    edited May 2023
    AnnPT77 wrote: »

    That's an amusingly flattering little gauge on body age, based on running my own data anyway. I'm skeptical, TBH.


    Yeah. Gotta agree, but dang, having been 85 pounds heavier less than five years ago, it totally made my day anyway. 😂😂😂

    dh6crl324fvb.png

    Anyway, OP, I eat very high protein, for satiation and because I’m high activity. Today I’m set to have 189 grams. My diary is open for ideas. (The whacko looking daily breakfast is simply yummy sweetened pancakes enhanced with every kind of protein I can think of : eggs, egg whites, plain whey, liquid whey leftover from yogurt making, yogurt, and cottage cheese, and then topped with homemade yogurt “cream cheese”.

    @psuLemon yours is the very first post I’ve seen saying that too high protein doesn’t necessarily equate to kidney issues, and I thank you for that. I’ve been saving that one up for my next GP visit. I can easily tell when protein runs low.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    ammarello42 wrote: »
    Hey everyone, i’m a 19 y/o male, 160 lbs, 5’11 n im struggling to figure out what my macros should be, i started almost exactly 3 months ago where i was abt 195 lbs and ate like total shii, never exercised. now i lift weights and run a 3 mile trail 6 days a week, i work, so i’m fairly active, i’ve lost abt 35lbs. and everything but my stomach is looking great. it’s def gotten smaller but to burn the rest of that fat and build muscle at the same time what should my macros be? i eat a lot of protein at least my body weight so mainly how many grams of carbs should i have daily?? i figured i’d limit it as much as possible so basically have been on keto without even realizing bc i thought keto was close to none. Eating is quite the chore now because i am a picky eater and i eat the same stuff all the time, have probably rambled to much to just ask basically how many grams of fat/carbs should i have daily?😭 also any tips for things to munch on, or meals, would be greatly appreciated

    5'11" @ 160 is pretty lean (5'10" 155 was about where I was at 19 when I was in the Marines). Honestly, at 19 yo and 160 trying to build muscle, I don't think I'd be skimping on the carbs...I certainly wouldn't be doing keto, especially if running everyday and also active in general.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,600 Member
    Commenting out of order, in effort to be more on track with OP's topic.
    springlering62 wrote: »

    (snip)
    Anyway, OP, I eat very high protein, for satiation and because I’m high activity. Today I’m set to have 189 grams. My diary is open for ideas. (The whacko looking daily breakfast is simply yummy sweetened pancakes enhanced with every kind of protein I can think of : eggs, egg whites, plain whey, liquid whey leftover from yogurt making, yogurt, and cottage cheese, and then topped with homemade yogurt “cream cheese”.

    @psuLemon yours is the very first post I’ve seen saying that too high protein doesn’t necessarily equate to kidney issues, and I thank you for that. I’ve been saving that one up for my next GP visit. I can easily tell when protein runs low.

    FWIW, the Examine.com protein guide has a bit on this, from a research support perspective:
    Most studies have looked at dosages up to 1.5 g/kg; only a few have looked at dosages as high as 2.2–3.3 g/kg. However, in healthy people, even those higher dosages don’t seem to have negative effects.

    That's from https://examine.com/guides/protein-intake/ .

    (For other USA-ians, roughly 1.5 g/kg = 0.68 g/lb, 2.2-3.3 g/kg = 1-1.5 g/lb. That's pounds bodyweight, because that's how most of the research is framed. Elsewhere, they do say that if substantially overweight, it can make sense to adjust the base to a normal weight.)

    That quote above links to another document on the site with a summary about risk-related research that leads off with:
    Eating a high-protein diet doesn't appear to harm the kidneys or liver unless there is pre-existing damage and dysfunction. It's possible that dramatically increasing protein intake in a short timespan can lead to adverse effects on the liver and kidneys, but evidence for this is lacking. Bone health also appears to be either largely unaffected or benefited by eating more protein.

    I'm not sure whether that document is publicly available or not (I have a login there). It's https://examine.com/supplements/whey-protein/faq/4QdqPJb-can-eating-too-much-protein-be-bad-for-you/

    Both of those documents link to the relevant research they've used to form those conclusions.

    USDA remains skeptical, seems like - but out in the area of "not enough evidence" to "mixed evidence", seems like. I don't think they've set an official tolerable upper intake limit (UL, but I'm not sure they do that for macronutrients generally. (This next link is tedious ;) : https://nesr.usda.gov/sites/default/files/2022-07/NESR-DRI-Protein-Evidence-Scan-Report.pdf).

    The closed they come to a UL that I've seen was linking to a UCDavis document that talks about overconsumption, among other things. That's here: https://nutrition.ucdavis.edu/outreach/nutr-health-info-sheets/pro-protein-requirements.

    Elsewhere in the US official stuff, there's some indication that 10-35% of calories would be an acceptable (generally safe). 10% makes me 😬 on the surface of it, but there's more nuanced discussion in various places about who needs relatively more and why.

    Slightly on-topic, as there was a digression in this thread about protein for vegans, this is from the Examine protein guide (first link above):
    Plant proteins being lower in leucine and other EAAs helps explain why several studies have reported lower MPS from soy protein powders and beverages than from whey protein,[103][104][105] skim milk,[106] whole milk with cheese,[107] and lean beef.[50]

    The quality of a protein depends on its bioavailability and EAA content. Based on both criteria, the quality of plant proteins is lower than the quality of animal proteins.

    MPS = muscle protein synthesis, EAA = essential amino acids.

    That agrees with what I've understood from other science-based sources (i.e., not advocacy sites), from being actively interested in this issue as someone nearing 49 years as a vegetarian. They go into somewhat more detail in that first link about how to get the best results from dietary protein and/or supplements as a veg.
    springlering62 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »

    That's an amusingly flattering little gauge on body age, based on running my own data anyway. I'm skeptical, TBH.


    Yeah. Gotta agree, but dang, having been 85 pounds heavier less than five years ago, it totally made my day anyway. 😂😂😂
    You're ahead of me! At 67, I got 25 and 43, not bad for a li'l ol' lady with early COPD. ;) 😂 Garmin thinks 33 and 37 respectively lately based on walking performance (something I don't do often in large amounts), which still seems pretty hilarious. Concept 2 estimates VO2max lower depending on how trained I say I am. Subjectively, it seems like a lot of the questions at that linked site aren't exactly the right questions, but I'm sure they were chosen to correlate the input data with categorizations from research findings.

    Oddly, many of my objective performance/fitness indicators (stuff like resting heart rate, race pace, etc.) are about the same now as they were when I was obese, since I was already very active then. I'd accept that my theoretical fitness age would be better as a healthy-weight woman, though. VO2max higher, maybe, too, since it's relative to bodyweight. With weight loss, my boat got faster (less load), but the rowing machine didn't, at least not observably. But I can now compete as lightweight, which is a less competitive field in my age group, vs. as openweight/heavyweight, where the tall/strong genetically blessed serious hard-working rowers compete. 😂




  • springlering62
    springlering62 Posts: 8,662 Member
    edited May 2023
    @AnnPT77 in another life I raced Hobie Cat catamarans. You had to be (from memory) 170 lbs minimum on a singlehand 14’, and 280 on a two-man 16’, and you could carry a max of 30 or 50 lbs deadweight to “make weight”.

    I was running about 115 in those days, and often raced with another even smaller woman, so had to make weight with a bag or two loaded with lead shot to the mast base to get us there.

    Got protested numerous times by male sailors, who were (and this was the early 80’s, bless their hearts) then kinda politely shamed by race crew for protesting “the ladies”.

    Oddly, one of the things that really bothered me about putting on weight was I was grotesquely overweight to sail either one, should I ever have had a yen to try again.

    I don’t even think they make Hobies like that anymore. 😢They were like the Maserati of sailboats. Those things would haul *kitten*. Many’s the time I kept up with gawking powerboats. “Looka there! That’s a girl hangin’ off the side a that boat!”

    Good for you for keeping up with the rowing. I can tell you love it like I loved my cats!
  • tomcustombuilder
    tomcustombuilder Posts: 2,247 Member
    springlering62 wrote: »
    @AnnPT77 in another life I raced Hobie Cat catamarans. You had to be (from memory) 170 lbs minimum on a singlehand 14’, and 280 on a two-man 16’, and you could carry a max of 30 or 50 lbs deadweight to “make weight”.

    I was running about 115 in those days, and often raced with another even smaller woman, so had to make weight with a bag or two loaded with lead shot to the mast base to get us there.

    Got protested numerous times by male sailors, who were (and this was the early 80’s, bless their hearts) then kinda politely shamed by race crew for protesting “the ladies”.

    Oddly, one of the things that really bothered me about putting on weight was I was grotesquely overweight to sail either one, should I ever have had a yen to try again.

    I don’t even think they make Hobies like that anymore. 😢They were like the Maserati of sailboats. Those things would haul *kitten*. Many’s the time I kept up with gawking powerboats. “Looka there! That’s a girl hangin’ off the side a that boat!”

    Good for you for keeping up with the rowing. I can tell you love it like I loved my cats!
    The Hobies were amazing. I had a 16 I kept on the beach in front of my house in Hawaii and when it was blowing 20 knots it was an amazing experience (Until we demasted off Kaena Point at sundown.)

  • springlering62
    springlering62 Posts: 8,662 Member
    edited May 2023
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    springlering62 wrote: »
    @AnnPT77 in another life I raced Hobie Cat catamarans. You had to be (from memory) 170 lbs minimum on a singlehand 14’, and 280 on a two-man 16’, and you could carry a max of 30 or 50 lbs deadweight to “make weight”.

    I was running about 115 in those days, and often raced with another even smaller woman, so had to make weight with a bag or two loaded with lead shot to the mast base to get us there.

    Got protested numerous times by male sailors, who were (and this was the early 80’s, bless their hearts) then kinda politely shamed by race crew for protesting “the ladies”.

    Oddly, one of the things that really bothered me about putting on weight was I was grotesquely overweight to sail either one, should I ever have had a yen to try again.

    I don’t even think they make Hobies like that anymore. 😢They were like the Maserati of sailboats. Those things would haul *kitten*. Many’s the time I kept up with gawking powerboats. “Looka there! That’s a girl hangin’ off the side a that boat!”

    Good for you for keeping up with the rowing. I can tell you love it like I loved my cats!
    The Hobies were amazing. I had a 16 I kept on the beach in front of my house in Hawaii and when it was blowing 20 knots it was an amazing experience (Until we demasted off Kaena Point at sundown.)

    Tom, I feel ya.

    I pitchpoled my 14 turbo off the coast of Sea Island, and stupidly hadn’t told anyone I was going out. I had a righting line but didn’t weigh enough to right the boat . Dolphins circled me for the hours and hours I was out there. I wasn’t afraid for some reason with them so close.

    After the lovely and very welcome guys from the Coast Guard ripped me a new one, I mentioned the dolphins. They rolled their eyes and said “this is the third largest shark breeding ground in the world. They’re natural enemies. The dolphins were protecting you.”

    Don’t know if it was true or not but it scared the unholy hell out of me. As if I already hadn’t been.

    Sure learned a valuable lesson.

    And gained a lifelong appreciation for dolphins.
  • tomcustombuilder
    tomcustombuilder Posts: 2,247 Member
    springlering62 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    springlering62 wrote: »
    @AnnPT77 in another life I raced Hobie Cat catamarans. You had to be (from memory) 170 lbs minimum on a singlehand 14’, and 280 on a two-man 16’, and you could carry a max of 30 or 50 lbs deadweight to “make weight”.

    I was running about 115 in those days, and often raced with another even smaller woman, so had to make weight with a bag or two loaded with lead shot to the mast base to get us there.

    Got protested numerous times by male sailors, who were (and this was the early 80’s, bless their hearts) then kinda politely shamed by race crew for protesting “the ladies”.

    Oddly, one of the things that really bothered me about putting on weight was I was grotesquely overweight to sail either one, should I ever have had a yen to try again.

    I don’t even think they make Hobies like that anymore. 😢They were like the Maserati of sailboats. Those things would haul *kitten*. Many’s the time I kept up with gawking powerboats. “Looka there! That’s a girl hangin’ off the side a that boat!”

    Good for you for keeping up with the rowing. I can tell you love it like I loved my cats!
    The Hobies were amazing. I had a 16 I kept on the beach in front of my house in Hawaii and when it was blowing 20 knots it was an amazing experience (Until we demasted off Kaena Point at sundown.)

    Tom, I feel ya.

    I pitchpoled my 14 turbo off the coast of Sea Island, and stupidly hadn’t told anyone I was going out. I had a righting line but didn’t weigh enough to right the boat . Dolphins circled me for the hours and hours I was out there. I wasn’t afraid for some reason with them so close.

    After the lovely and very welcome guys from the Coast Guard ripped me a new one, I mentioned the dolphins. They rolled their eyes and said “this is the third largest shark breeding ground in the world. They’re natural enemies. The dolphins were protecting you.”

    Don’t know if it was true or not but it scared the unholy hell out of me. As if I already hadn’t been.

    Sure learned a valuable lesson.

    And gained a lifelong appreciation for dolphins.
    Great story…

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