"Low Carbs, Eat Fat & Fast"
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No. You just train abs WHILE losing fat. Fat loss is dependent on energy balance. Exercise is to help keep muscle you already have.oldmanbythegulf wrote: »Hello ninerbuff. If it was proven or just reasonably presented that Dr. Robert Lustig or anyone else was incorrect in all or some of their teaching, then of course, yes, it would effect my opinion. But, your above comment doesn't prove or reasonably present that Dr. Lustig is a quack. I'm open to diet info from you also. BTW, an exercise question. Should I loose my big belly with diet before I add ab exercises to my gym regiment?
If Dr. Lustig was correct then Asian populations should be suffering from health issues he describes because of carbs. Rice, noodles and other carbs are staples in Asian countries. And yet Asians have the longest life spans of other ethnicities. Lustig is stating that we're fat as a country because of carbs. We're fat as a country because we just eat too damn much. Our food here is hyper palatable and overeating is a US pastime.
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When he says sugar, he's talking about ultra processed foods that are high in refined carbs, which as far as the body is concerned is sugar, as well as added sugars, refined seed oils and salt. He references that insulinogenic milieu that effect IR, obesity, metabolic dysfunction and not sugar on it's own. The standard American diet is the problem and any Country that has adopted it including Asian countries, where if you looked are seeing the biggest rise in metabolic disorders with obesity surging. So yeah hyperpalatable food and over consumption which is the tradmark for that diet is the problem and not just sugar.1 -
Noodles are processed carbs in Asia. As well as many carb snacks they eat. And yes, it's rising in Asia with the introduction of many US fast food places. I saw a lot in Japan (McDonald's, Wendy's).neanderthin wrote: »
No. You just train abs WHILE losing fat. Fat loss is dependent on energy balance. Exercise is to help keep muscle you already have.oldmanbythegulf wrote: »Hello ninerbuff. If it was proven or just reasonably presented that Dr. Robert Lustig or anyone else was incorrect in all or some of their teaching, then of course, yes, it would effect my opinion. But, your above comment doesn't prove or reasonably present that Dr. Lustig is a quack. I'm open to diet info from you also. BTW, an exercise question. Should I loose my big belly with diet before I add ab exercises to my gym regiment?
If Dr. Lustig was correct then Asian populations should be suffering from health issues he describes because of carbs. Rice, noodles and other carbs are staples in Asian countries. And yet Asians have the longest life spans of other ethnicities. Lustig is stating that we're fat as a country because of carbs. We're fat as a country because we just eat too damn much. Our food here is hyper palatable and overeating is a US pastime.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
When he says sugar, he's talking about ultra processed foods that are high in refined carbs, which as far as the body is concerned is sugar, as well as added sugars, refined seed oils and salt. He references that insulinogenic milieu that effect IR, obesity, metabolic dysfunction and not sugar on it's own. The standard American diet is the problem and any Country that has adopted it including Asian countries, where if you looked are seeing the biggest rise in metabolic disorders with obesity surging. So yeah hyperpalatable food and over consumption which is the tradmark for that diet is the problem and not just sugar.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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when people cut out carbs they’re cutting calories and then say it was the carbs making them fat. I see it all the time. If someone truly IS insulin resistant then they may need to talk to their dr about the correct course of action as some may require medication as a second line of defense.tomcustombuilder wrote: »
And how does someone who is hungry all the time eating the recommended carbs from MyPlate keep their calories low? @tomcustombuilder, your repeated statements that all that really matters is to eat less calories than are burnt makes no sense for anyone who is trying to find a way to reverse their insulin resistance. It is just too simplistic. The OP appears to be concerned with improving overall health as much as he is with losing weight. If this leads them to eating less sugar, then good for them. If they can find a way to free themselves from carb cravings, the reduction in calories is almost effortless (or at least, it was for me).
If you track calories and lower carbs and replace those same calories with another macro and lose fat then yes, you very well may be IR.
For the majority of people, yes Fatloss IS simplistic, eat less move more. If someone has a condition then it needs to be dealt with.
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Noodles are processed carbs in Asia. As well as many carb snacks they eat. And yes, it's rising in Asia with the introduction of many US fast food places. I saw a lot in Japan (McDonald's, Wendy's).neanderthin wrote: »
No. You just train abs WHILE losing fat. Fat loss is dependent on energy balance. Exercise is to help keep muscle you already have.oldmanbythegulf wrote: »Hello ninerbuff. If it was proven or just reasonably presented that Dr. Robert Lustig or anyone else was incorrect in all or some of their teaching, then of course, yes, it would effect my opinion. But, your above comment doesn't prove or reasonably present that Dr. Lustig is a quack. I'm open to diet info from you also. BTW, an exercise question. Should I loose my big belly with diet before I add ab exercises to my gym regiment?
If Dr. Lustig was correct then Asian populations should be suffering from health issues he describes because of carbs. Rice, noodles and other carbs are staples in Asian countries. And yet Asians have the longest life spans of other ethnicities. Lustig is stating that we're fat as a country because of carbs. We're fat as a country because we just eat too damn much. Our food here is hyper palatable and overeating is a US pastime.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
When he says sugar, he's talking about ultra processed foods that are high in refined carbs, which as far as the body is concerned is sugar, as well as added sugars, refined seed oils and salt. He references that insulinogenic milieu that effect IR, obesity, metabolic dysfunction and not sugar on it's own. The standard American diet is the problem and any Country that has adopted it including Asian countries, where if you looked are seeing the biggest rise in metabolic disorders with obesity surging. So yeah hyperpalatable food and over consumption which is the tradmark for that diet is the problem and not just sugar.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I would guess obesity and associated conditions are rising in Asia because of increased standard of living in general - ie abundance of food and lifestyle issues similar to many people in western countries
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paperpudding wrote: »What we shouldn't do is post as if our way of eating is best for everyone and we know better than everyone else (because we've watched more youtubes or have a bigger screen or any other non qualification.) - and OP's posts do come across that way.
I agree with you on these points. Everyone is different and those claiming OMAD, or IF, or even just CICO is best for everyone are just as wrong to have done so.
But, I have been in the OP's shoes. When I found something that worked for me after decades of trying (and finding it impossible) to follow doctors' advice to eat less and exercise more (aka CICO), I wanted to shout my advice from the rooftops. Today's equivalent being posting what worked for me on internet discussion forums. Glad I didn't, and the OP will find a better way of sharing his experience if he hangs around MFP's forums. Still, I'm excited for him and wish him continued improvement in his health metrics.
CICO is not a method or way of eating - so that part is universal.
OP may well be excited at finding a way of eating that works for him - that doesnt change anyone else points that his advice is not universal, like it is presented as being, nor do his youtube qualifications mean he knows more than everyone else, as he presents as being the case
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Japan's never been a 3rd world country though. In fact there's a big concern of the population decreasing because not as many people are having children and the older generation is starting to die off. I was there in June and only saw a handful of just overweight people there. Didn't see any obese and I was in Tokyo, Mt. Fuji, Odama, and several other cities with my BIL. When we ate out the portion being given were much much smaller than you eat at a regular US meal. Like a bowl of ramen would be like a standard size cereal bowl. Food was so good there too. But watching my in laws eat, I realized that I eat WAY more than they do. Luckily, my activity level is very high (I walk over 15,000 steps a day at work and that doesn't include working out) or else I might be much heavier than I am now.paperpudding wrote: »
Noodles are processed carbs in Asia. As well as many carb snacks they eat. And yes, it's rising in Asia with the introduction of many US fast food places. I saw a lot in Japan (McDonald's, Wendy's).neanderthin wrote: »
No. You just train abs WHILE losing fat. Fat loss is dependent on energy balance. Exercise is to help keep muscle you already have.oldmanbythegulf wrote: »Hello ninerbuff. If it was proven or just reasonably presented that Dr. Robert Lustig or anyone else was incorrect in all or some of their teaching, then of course, yes, it would effect my opinion. But, your above comment doesn't prove or reasonably present that Dr. Lustig is a quack. I'm open to diet info from you also. BTW, an exercise question. Should I loose my big belly with diet before I add ab exercises to my gym regiment?
If Dr. Lustig was correct then Asian populations should be suffering from health issues he describes because of carbs. Rice, noodles and other carbs are staples in Asian countries. And yet Asians have the longest life spans of other ethnicities. Lustig is stating that we're fat as a country because of carbs. We're fat as a country because we just eat too damn much. Our food here is hyper palatable and overeating is a US pastime.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
When he says sugar, he's talking about ultra processed foods that are high in refined carbs, which as far as the body is concerned is sugar, as well as added sugars, refined seed oils and salt. He references that insulinogenic milieu that effect IR, obesity, metabolic dysfunction and not sugar on it's own. The standard American diet is the problem and any Country that has adopted it including Asian countries, where if you looked are seeing the biggest rise in metabolic disorders with obesity surging. So yeah hyperpalatable food and over consumption which is the tradmark for that diet is the problem and not just sugar.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
[img]https://www.myfitnesspal.com/ticker /show/928/5851/9285851.png[/img]
I would guess obesity and associated conditions are rising in Asia because of increased standard of living in general - ie abundance of food and lifestyle issues similar to many people in western countries
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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yes ,fair point about Japan.
and I'm sure cultural expectations of portion size are a factor too.
I was thinking more about countries like China, Vietnam - where economic prosperity has meant increased standard of living for many more people than in the relatively recent past.1 -
neanderthin wrote: »
No. You just train abs WHILE losing fat. Fat loss is dependent on energy balance. Exercise is to help keep muscle you already have.oldmanbythegulf wrote: »Hello ninerbuff. If it was proven or just reasonably presented that Dr. Robert Lustig or anyone else was incorrect in all or some of their teaching, then of course, yes, it would effect my opinion. But, your above comment doesn't prove or reasonably present that Dr. Lustig is a quack. I'm open to diet info from you also. BTW, an exercise question. Should I loose my big belly with diet before I add ab exercises to my gym regiment?
If Dr. Lustig was correct then Asian populations should be suffering from health issues he describes because of carbs. Rice, noodles and other carbs are staples in Asian countries. And yet Asians have the longest life spans of other ethnicities. Lustig is stating that we're fat as a country because of carbs. We're fat as a country because we just eat too damn much. Our food here is hyper palatable and overeating is a US pastime.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
When he says sugar, he's talking about ultra processed foods that are high in refined carbs, which as far as the body is concerned is sugar, as well as added sugars, refined seed oils and salt. He references that insulinogenic milieu that effect IR, obesity, metabolic dysfunction and not sugar on it's own. The standard American diet is the problem and any Country that has adopted it including Asian countries, where if you looked are seeing the biggest rise in metabolic disorders with obesity surging. So yeah hyperpalatable food and over consumption which is the tradmark for that diet is the problem and not just sugar.
And fructose, which is the sugar in fruit. Or has Lustig retreated from his 2009 "fructose is poison" stance?2 -
kshama2001 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »
No. You just train abs WHILE losing fat. Fat loss is dependent on energy balance. Exercise is to help keep muscle you already have.oldmanbythegulf wrote: »Hello ninerbuff. If it was proven or just reasonably presented that Dr. Robert Lustig or anyone else was incorrect in all or some of their teaching, then of course, yes, it would effect my opinion. But, your above comment doesn't prove or reasonably present that Dr. Lustig is a quack. I'm open to diet info from you also. BTW, an exercise question. Should I loose my big belly with diet before I add ab exercises to my gym regiment?
If Dr. Lustig was correct then Asian populations should be suffering from health issues he describes because of carbs. Rice, noodles and other carbs are staples in Asian countries. And yet Asians have the longest life spans of other ethnicities. Lustig is stating that we're fat as a country because of carbs. We're fat as a country because we just eat too damn much. Our food here is hyper palatable and overeating is a US pastime.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
When he says sugar, he's talking about ultra processed foods that are high in refined carbs, which as far as the body is concerned is sugar, as well as added sugars, refined seed oils and salt. He references that insulinogenic milieu that effect IR, obesity, metabolic dysfunction and not sugar on it's own. The standard American diet is the problem and any Country that has adopted it including Asian countries, where if you looked are seeing the biggest rise in metabolic disorders with obesity surging. So yeah hyperpalatable food and over consumption which is the tradmark for that diet is the problem and not just sugar.
And fructose, which is the sugar in fruit. Or has Lustig retreated from his 2009 "fructose is poison" stance?
Yeah, I think Lustig considers all carbohydrates, except green leafy vegetables, to be sugar, and therefore poison.2 -
kshama2001 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »
No. You just train abs WHILE losing fat. Fat loss is dependent on energy balance. Exercise is to help keep muscle you already have.oldmanbythegulf wrote: »Hello ninerbuff. If it was proven or just reasonably presented that Dr. Robert Lustig or anyone else was incorrect in all or some of their teaching, then of course, yes, it would effect my opinion. But, your above comment doesn't prove or reasonably present that Dr. Lustig is a quack. I'm open to diet info from you also. BTW, an exercise question. Should I loose my big belly with diet before I add ab exercises to my gym regiment?
If Dr. Lustig was correct then Asian populations should be suffering from health issues he describes because of carbs. Rice, noodles and other carbs are staples in Asian countries. And yet Asians have the longest life spans of other ethnicities. Lustig is stating that we're fat as a country because of carbs. We're fat as a country because we just eat too damn much. Our food here is hyper palatable and overeating is a US pastime.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
When he says sugar, he's talking about ultra processed foods that are high in refined carbs, which as far as the body is concerned is sugar, as well as added sugars, refined seed oils and salt. He references that insulinogenic milieu that effect IR, obesity, metabolic dysfunction and not sugar on it's own. The standard American diet is the problem and any Country that has adopted it including Asian countries, where if you looked are seeing the biggest rise in metabolic disorders with obesity surging. So yeah hyperpalatable food and over consumption which is the tradmark for that diet is the problem and not just sugar.
And fructose, which is the sugar in fruit. Or has Lustig retreated from his 2009 "fructose is poison" stance?
In scientific terms of toxicology it's the dose that makes the poison and in that context it can be considered just that for people experiencing the common symptoms of metabolic syndrome, especially fatty liver. Is he saying fruit is poison, no of course not. Any chemical can be toxic, even water and in the context of fructose if it exhibits the harmful effects associated with a toxic property, then as far as toxicology is concerned it can be considered one, of course this is easily misconstrued and obviously has been. Fructose is in just about every sugar source including starchy root vegetables and the body doesn't discern where it's coming from. imo.
The body metabolizes glucose and fructose quite differently. Glucose can be used by almost every cell in the body and get dispersed easily to every cell in the body and in muscle as glycogen and the liver also metabolizes about 20% of that glucose load. Fructose on the other hand can't be used by any cells as energy and is directly taken to the liver to be metabolized as well as the glucose fraction which is stored as liver glycogen but fructose is metabolized without limits in the liver only, the more fructose that is ingested the more hepatic de novo lipogenesis and more liver fat accumulates and fatty liver is 10x more likely than glucose to result in insulin resistance. The liver can take these excess triglycerides (fat) in the liver and convert to glucose but if someone is overfed and consuming the standard American diet, that's rarely and if ever going to happen. This is also why authorities will advice patients that have fatty liver to forgo fructose at all costs, if possible.
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Here's Lustig talking about sugar and other dietary topics. It was basic and easy to understand, although a little longer than most people's attention span can tolerate I suspect, unless of course your interested in nutrition. Cheers.
https://youtu.be/WVFMyzQE-4w0 -
I guess this thing I've stumbled into has evolved into "the Keto diet" ?? Things involved in my journey, discouraging and encouraging, and I respect both, are your comments, my PCP and his Nutritionist, even though slightly reluctant, I think will help, my new Chiropractor for my old back will help me with nutrition, my heart doctor even made the comment today that, yes, I can continue with my LDL monthly injections of Repatha while on the Keto diet, I'll continue replaying and taking notes from all the You Tube doctors, tomorrow I pick up my online grocery order at Walmart, sausage, bacon, beef patties, flounder fillets, sardines(1 can for test?), strawberries, blueberries, diced onions bell peppers, pecans, apple cider vinegar, ev olive oil, avocado, eggs organic pasture, cheese, whole milk, sugar free no caffeine drink(aspartame?!?), I'm entering all my meals onto this site, still satisficed with OMAD but guess I need more 1000, 1300 calorie days than 700 calorie days, will improve and evolve with everyone's input such as names of fruits and veg with low carbs and where to get good fats and not bad fats. July-06-23, I'm 74yrs old, male, 5' 10", 190 lbs is now 180, "9 month pregnant" belly at largest place is I'm afraid still 45", good body proportions elsewhere, of course wish I was firmer, I have gym membership and a walking trail 3 blocks from my house but presently don't use them. Happy trails everyone, Steve.1
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You might be surprised since almost everything bought in the US comes from an Asian country. Yes there are still very hard times in Vietnam, China, Philippines, Indonesia, etc. but a lot of companies are opting to have manufacturing done there because they can make more profit due to paying less (in US dollars) to the labor force.paperpudding wrote: »yes ,fair point about Japan.
and I'm sure cultural expectations of portion size are a factor too.
I was thinking more about countries like China, Vietnam - where economic prosperity has meant increased standard of living for many more people than in the relatively recent past.
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oldmanbythegulf wrote: »I guess this thing I've stumbled into has evolved into "the Keto diet" ?? Things involved in my journey, discouraging and encouraging, and I respect both, are your comments, my PCP and his Nutritionist, even though slightly reluctant, I think will help, my new Chiropractor for my old back will help me with nutrition, my heart doctor even made the comment today that, yes, I can continue with my LDL monthly injections of Repatha while on the Keto diet, I'll continue replaying and taking notes from all the You Tube doctors, tomorrow I pick up my online grocery order at Walmart, sausage, bacon, beef patties, flounder fillets, sardines(1 can for test?), strawberries, blueberries, diced onions bell peppers, pecans, apple cider vinegar, ev olive oil, avocado, eggs organic pasture, cheese, whole milk, sugar free no caffeine drink(aspartame?!?), I'm entering all my meals onto this site, still satisficed with OMAD but guess I need more 1000, 1300 calorie days than 700 calorie days, will improve and evolve with everyone's input such as names of fruits and veg with low carbs and where to get good fats and not bad fats. July-06-23, I'm 74yrs old, male, 5' 10", 190 lbs is now 180, "9 month pregnant" belly at largest place is I'm afraid still 45", good body proportions elsewhere, of course wish I was firmer, I have gym membership and a walking trail 3 blocks from my house but presently don't use them. Happy trails everyone, Steve.
10 lbs lost in what time-frame?0 -
You might be surprised since almost everything bought in the US comes from an Asian country. Yes there are still very hard times in Vietnam, China, Philippines, Indonesia, etc. but a lot of companies are opting to have manufacturing done there because they can make more profit due to paying less (in US dollars) to the labor force.paperpudding wrote: »yes ,fair point about Japan.
and I'm sure cultural expectations of portion size are a factor too.
I was thinking more about countries like China, Vietnam - where economic prosperity has meant increased standard of living for many more people than in the relatively recent past.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
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Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Not sure what point you are making here - my comment had nothing to do with where things in US come from
Was just saying that increased economic prosperity and standard of living in places like Vietnam and China meant more obesity in such places - rather than more western food chains like mcdonalds being the reason.0 -
guess I need more 1000, 1300 calorie days than 700 calorie days,................. I'm 74yrs old, male, 5' 10"
No - you need all days, on average, to be more than any of them.
Not sure what your daily calorie allowance should be but it is certainly more than 1300.1 -
I was stating that part of the prosperity comes from companies hiring people in those countries to work there whereas in the 90's there weren't as many companies manufacturing products there. Also the introduction of the Western Diet has been an influence the major reason why now some Asian countries overweight population is starting to grow.paperpudding wrote: »
You might be surprised since almost everything bought in the US comes from an Asian country. Yes there are still very hard times in Vietnam, China, Philippines, Indonesia, etc. but a lot of companies are opting to have manufacturing done there because they can make more profit due to paying less (in US dollars) to the labor force.paperpudding wrote: »yes ,fair point about Japan.
and I'm sure cultural expectations of portion size are a factor too.
I was thinking more about countries like China, Vietnam - where economic prosperity has meant increased standard of living for many more people than in the relatively recent past.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Not sure what point you are making here - my comment had nothing to do with where things in US come from
Was just saying that increased economic prosperity and standard of living in places like Vietnam and China meant more obesity in such places - rather than more western food chains like mcdonalds being the reason.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
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Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1 -
well, ok.
I didnt think where the prosperity came from was the point, but ok.0 -
Lietchi, I had been 190 lbs for a long, long time, then about 7 to 10 days ago, all the sudden, the scale read 182 then 180 and still now 180. Guess about 2 weeks ago I settled into this (20g or so carbs daily, eat meat) and about a week ago, (naturally, easily fell into OMAD 24hr intermittent fast).0
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Advice on diets shouldn't come from youtube. It is not a medical or scientific resource. Ask your GP/doctor. Ask a registered dietician. Read peer-reviewed papers. If it's not peer-reviewed it's basically some ones opinion. You can absolutely mess with your body to find out if they are right, but also, reading crap on the internet is how we end up with people believing that there are lizards in government and that the Earth is flat.3
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