Fighting my metabolism and labor

layneb124

Hey all,

Firstly and basically a TLDR, I'd like to say I would like to find friends that are on a similar ectomorphic journey to gain weight.

So I decided to start a new journey to better health, primarily mental. I've struggled with adhd all of my life, been diagnosed and unmedicated since about 9. I finally got rediagnosed and am now on the journey of getting leveled out on the medication. During this process I have had issues with my appetite. I'm 6'3" and normal weight has been ~165 for over a decade. My BMR is 1850 calories. I've always been very active and my choices within the workforce have primarily lined up with that as well. Overall with my activity level I need anywhere from 3200-4500 calories for maintenance and a little extra. This has been quite difficult for me and I would love to expand my support group. I'd love to have anyone add me that is adamant about their journey to better health, no matter what your journey. I'd just like to have some people that are on the same journey as me that understand the struggle of maintaining.

MFP username: layneb124

ninerbuff

First, you're not ectomorphic. Somatotyping (body types in reference to ecto, meso, endo) was debunked long ago.
As to eating, eat calorie dense foods. My go to would be a large pizza for myself when I needed to consume 4000 calories a day.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

layneb124

ninerbuff wrote: »

First, you're not ectomorphic. Somatotyping (body types in reference to ecto, meso, endo) was debunked long ago.

As far as debunking goes, Sheldon's theory of correlation between somatotyping and criminals was debunked, but the body types are still widely used. With the fact that it's still widely known and used, it is the easiest way to explain the way my body is built and how gaining weight is for me. As for the way to get the calories in, if you would've read through, I am having appetite issues. Eating a large pizza 3 months ago wasn't a problem at all. Now I have issues eating more than a piece of pizza. I really don't care if you're a trainer or not. Coming in the comments like you did seemed very cocky and I don't appreciate it.

Retroguy2000

Physical activity, diet, & lifestyle factors + genetics = current body type.

People can change. They aren't constrained to some arbitrary box for their whole life.

I guess I don't understand why it's so hard to eat more, when for the vast majority of the population that's the problem they hope to solve. Just eat calorie dense foods, including peanuts, peanut butter, etc. Have larger meal portions. Snack on chocolate or cookies all day, always have something like that close by. A pack of cookies during the day, two or three at a time, would be about 2,000 calories by itself.

AnnPT77

I used to be an ectomorph. I lost 50 pounds. Now I'm quite clearly a mesomorph.

Also cocky like niner, I guess, and I'm not even a trainer.

Somatotypes are not good science. They're widely misused in fitspo and related marketing. The terms may have some metaphorical or casual utility, but they've been misused terribly.

I understand what you're saying about having difficulty maintaining weight, i.e, eating enough to maintain, and I sympathize, even though I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. (Despite being mesomorph-shaped, I can 100% eat a whole pizza. Coincidentally, I just did, and I'm a li'l ol' lady of 5'5" running around 130 pounds these days. I don't expect the pizza to change that noticeably, BTW.)

Maintaining has challenges. (I'm in year 7+ of doing it reasonably well, after losing from class 1 obese, and after being overweight to obese for 30+ years before that). Your challenges are different from my challenges, but nearly everyone has challenges doing it.

In general, I think people here genuinely want to help others (including niner). We all have different communication styles. Because of posts over the years, there are certain terms/phrases that set some of us off (me included), and somatotypes are one of them, because of the volume of really misleading things that have been posted with those terms so many times. (Others include "starvation mode", "muscle is heavier than fat", etc.).

I'm cheering for you to succeed, though, even though we're on different courses. Best wishes!

sollyn23l2

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

Physical activity, diet, & lifestyle factors + genetics = current body type.

People can change. They aren't constrained to some arbitrary box for their whole life.

I guess I don't understand why it's so hard to eat more, when for the vast majority of the population that's the problem they hope to solve. Just eat calorie dense foods, including peanuts, peanut butter, etc. Have larger meal portions. Snack on chocolate or cookies all day, always have something like that close by. A pack of cookies during the day, two or three at a time, would be about 2,000 calories by itself.

Isn't that a bit like saying you can't understand why all these overweight people can't just eat less? Of course they can. It's just hard. Same thing for people struggling to eat *more* calories than their body wants.

claireychn074

layneb124 wrote: »

Hey all,

Firstly and basically a TLDR, I'd like to say I would like to find friends that are on a similar ectomorphic journey to gain weight.

So I decided to start a new journey to better health, primarily mental. I've struggled with adhd all of my life, been diagnosed and unmedicated since about 9. I finally got rediagnosed and am now on the journey of getting leveled out on the medication. During this process I have had issues with my appetite. I'm 6'3" and normal weight has been ~165 for over a decade. My BMR is 1850 calories. I've always been very active and my choices within the workforce have primarily lined up with that as well. Overall with my activity level I need anywhere from 3200-4500 calories for maintenance and a little extra. This has been quite difficult for me and I would love to expand my support group. I'd love to have anyone add me that is adamant about their journey to better health, no matter what your journey. I'd just like to have some people that are on the same journey as me that understand the struggle of maintaining.

MFP username: layneb124

I’m not a very good friend on MFP I’m afraid - I post on the forums but don’t really engage much beyond that. I do however sometimes have issues getting enough calories for my sport (I’m an emotional undereater). What I do is have a list of higher calorie, palatable and easy to digest foods I can eat. They’re not necessary as nutritionally balanced as I want, but they will get calories in. In my case it’s stuff like chocolate mini rolls (small and high calorie, don’t feel overwhelming), nuts (it’s amazing how many calories are in a handful of nuts or heaped spoon of peanut butter), flavoured olive oil to put on salad or veg, higher calorie fish like salmon or meat like lamb, and higher calorie fruit and veg (avocado, banana). A good old jacket spud laden with butter will be calorific.

So if you are serious about maintaining and not losing, you need to be as dedicated as those who want to lose weight. Keep high cal foods in the house for when you don’t want to eat much. Be strict with mealtimes and finish what you put in your plate. And in the worst case, drink your calories in a dirty protein shake. I don’t like them, but lots of people do and you can easily drink c1,000 cals if you get protein powder, full fat milk, peanut butter and ice cream or full fat yoghurt. It’s about planning and being determined - and as with losing weight, it might not be easy but it depends on how bad you want it. (Edited to correct stupid iPhone autocorrect)

claireychn074

Why autocorrect, why? Why do you think it’s wrong when I say “on” or “in”? Stop changing them!

ninerbuff

AnnPT77 wrote: »

I used to be an ectomorph. I lost 50 pounds. Now I'm quite clearly a mesomorph.

Also cocky like niner, I guess, and I'm not even a trainer.

Somatotypes are not good science. They're widely misused in fitspo and related marketing. The terms may have some metaphorical or casual utility, but they've been misused terribly.

I understand what you're saying about having difficulty maintaining weight, i.e, eating enough to maintain, and I sympathize, even though I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. (Despite being mesomorph-shaped, I can 100% eat a whole pizza. Coincidentally, I just did, and I'm a li'l ol' lady of 5'5" running around 130 pounds these days. I don't expect the pizza to change that noticeably, BTW.)

Maintaining has challenges. (I'm in year 7+ of doing it reasonably well, after losing from class 1 obese, and after being overweight to obese for 30+ years before that). Your challenges are different from my challenges, but nearly everyone has challenges doing it.

In general, I think people here genuinely want to help others (including niner). We all have different communication styles. Because of posts over the years, there are certain terms/phrases that set some of us off (me included), and somatotypes are one of them, because of the volume of really misleading things that have been posted with those terms so many times. (Others include "starvation mode", "muscle is heavier than fat", etc.).

I'm cheering for you to succeed, though, even though we're on different courses. Best wishes!

I think you meant ENDOMORPH Ann. But you always get a pass from me.



A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

sollyn23l2 wrote: »

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

Physical activity, diet, & lifestyle factors + genetics = current body type.

People can change. They aren't constrained to some arbitrary box for their whole life.

I guess I don't understand why it's so hard to eat more, when for the vast majority of the population that's the problem they hope to solve. Just eat calorie dense foods, including peanuts, peanut butter, etc. Have larger meal portions. Snack on chocolate or cookies all day, always have something like that close by. A pack of cookies during the day, two or three at a time, would be about 2,000 calories by itself.

Isn't that a bit like saying you can't understand why all these overweight people can't just eat less? Of course they can. It's just hard. Same thing for people struggling to eat *more* calories than their body wants.

I think he's just stating that it's EASIER to eat calorie dense foods. Gaining weight is actually easier than losing it since we're actually predisposed not to burn off fat easily but put it on easily due to just how the body mechanism is to ensure survival.



A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

layneb124

Thank you everyone, so to further explain my predicament with undereating, I'm on a medication that makes me have the feeling of uncomfortability in my stomach (right before it starts hurting, whether it's due to being too hungry or overeating) all day long. I have to force feed myself most days and most meals. Another huge factor in it is the fact that I am extremely active at work, most of the time it's sunup to sundown and out in the heat for a good bit of it. On top of it, I work with food quite a bit and so seeing and smelling it all day turns my stomach more. Those things combined make food the last thing I want during my day. At a certain point, I guess any calories are better than no calories, but I don't want to just eat trash to hit my calories. I do appreciate all of the great ideas as to how to pack on the calories, but that's hard as well when I rarely have time to do more than quite literally run around to get jobs done. (My fitbit died at 2pm and I had 14000 steps and almost 2 hours of active minutes and I didn't slow down until 9) When I have time, I do make myself eat. It's just a struggle to keep up with my body.

Now, Retro, you are absolutely right. People can change. I could go out and get a job instead of running my own business, but I enjoy what I do and hope to get it running smoother so I don't have to work so hard. I also have not dealt well with a sedentary job. My genetics don't help me at all as both parents have a high metabolism as well and I've got a build very similar to them. I am going to try to keep peanuts or other nuts with me more often, but peanut butter is a bit of a texture thing for me so I can only eat a little of it before it turns my stomach.

AnnPT, the difference between you and niner is the approach you took. You were willing to try to explain the reasoning you had behind your mindset and even told me about your journey to explain further and be more understanding where niner just told me I'm wrong and did not take much of anything I had to say into account. I'm also going to hold a personal trainer that has studied fitness to a higher standard than I would anyone else. A personal trainer is supposed to listen to their client (by making a comment and giving his input he is treating me like a client in that moment). That's why I consider him cocky. You however were not.

Sollyn, I think the hardest part for people to realize is the fact that we ALL have different walks of life and we all have different struggles. Just because I've never been fat or obese, doesn't mean I can say that everyone is like me and it should be easy for people like that to lose weight. Everyone has their struggles and we only catch a glimpse unless we try to learn about each other.

Claire, one of my main issues is the fact that setting times to eat doesn't work with my job and definitely doesn't work with my adhd. I try to follow the reminders from MFP but sometimes I go hours after that before I have a chance to eat. I also heavily focus on my macros, so empty calories are hard for me to justify, but as I've said earlier, any calories are better than none with where I'm at. I just feel like I'm going to eat nothing but junk if I really focus on my calories. Thank you for the ideas for calorie dense foods, I do appreciate it.

I do want to say to everyone trying to help that I appreciate your help and I am very thankful for everyone sharing to try to help me see I'm not alone.

sollyn23l2

ninerbuff wrote: »

sollyn23l2 wrote: »

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

Physical activity, diet, & lifestyle factors + genetics = current body type.

People can change. They aren't constrained to some arbitrary box for their whole life.

I guess I don't understand why it's so hard to eat more, when for the vast majority of the population that's the problem they hope to solve. Just eat calorie dense foods, including peanuts, peanut butter, etc. Have larger meal portions. Snack on chocolate or cookies all day, always have something like that close by. A pack of cookies during the day, two or three at a time, would be about 2,000 calories by itself.

Isn't that a bit like saying you can't understand why all these overweight people can't just eat less? Of course they can. It's just hard. Same thing for people struggling to eat *more* calories than their body wants.

I think he's just stating that it's EASIER to eat calorie dense foods. Gaining weight is actually easier than losing it since we're actually predisposed not to burn off fat easily but put it on easily due to just how the body mechanism is to ensure survival.



A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Sorry, but no. It's as easy to eat brocolli as it is to eat peanut butter. This is part of the problem. I was told "Jesus, eat a cheeseburger" when I weighed 80 pounds. Huh. Really? Hadn't thought of that before.

Retroguy2000

sollyn23l2 wrote: »

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

Physical activity, diet, & lifestyle factors + genetics = current body type.

People can change. They aren't constrained to some arbitrary box for their whole life.

I guess I don't understand why it's so hard to eat more, when for the vast majority of the population that's the problem they hope to solve. Just eat calorie dense foods, including peanuts, peanut butter, etc. Have larger meal portions. Snack on chocolate or cookies all day, always have something like that close by. A pack of cookies during the day, two or three at a time, would be about 2,000 calories by itself.

Isn't that a bit like saying you can't understand why all these overweight people can't just eat less? Of course they can. It's just hard. Same thing for people struggling to eat *more* calories than their body wants.

No? Obese people may take about overwhelming desires to binge, driven by their hormones. I've never heard of a corresponding situation for not eating. As niner said, that runs counter to millions of years of genetics.

OP is telling us about medication leading to food being undesirable. Can a different medication be considered? The point remains though, when he does eat, it should be possible to choose more calorie dense foods? That doesn't have to mean "trash" or empty calories as he said.

One more thing though. Usually, hard gainer talk comes from people who are ostensibly doing progressive overload training and seeking to add muscle. It sounds like OP just wants to add weight, with no mention of training. Won't that lead to a high proportion of weight gain being fat?

sollyn23l2

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

sollyn23l2 wrote: »

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

Physical activity, diet, & lifestyle factors + genetics = current body type.

People can change. They aren't constrained to some arbitrary box for their whole life.

I guess I don't understand why it's so hard to eat more, when for the vast majority of the population that's the problem they hope to solve. Just eat calorie dense foods, including peanuts, peanut butter, etc. Have larger meal portions. Snack on chocolate or cookies all day, always have something like that close by. A pack of cookies during the day, two or three at a time, would be about 2,000 calories by itself.

Isn't that a bit like saying you can't understand why all these overweight people can't just eat less? Of course they can. It's just hard. Same thing for people struggling to eat *more* calories than their body wants.

No? Obese people may take about overwhelming desires to binge, driven by their hormones. I've never heard of a corresponding situation for not eating. As niner said, that runs counter to millions of years of genetics.

OP is telling us about medication leading to food being undesirable. Can a different medication be considered? The point remains though, when he does eat, it should be possible to choose more calorie dense foods? That doesn't have to mean "trash" or empty calories as he said.

One more thing though. Usually, hard gainer talk comes from people who are ostensibly doing progressive overload training and seeking to add muscle. It sounds like OP just wants to add weight, with no mention of training. Won't that lead to a high proportion of weight gain being fat?

The corresponding thing would be called anorexia. Which is a very real and pervasive issue. But, I totally agree with you on everything else here. You're right.

layneb124

sollyn23l2 wrote: »

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

sollyn23l2 wrote: »

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

Physical activity, diet, & lifestyle factors + genetics = current body type.

People can change. They aren't constrained to some arbitrary box for their whole life.

I guess I don't understand why it's so hard to eat more, when for the vast majority of the population that's the problem they hope to solve. Just eat calorie dense foods, including peanuts, peanut butter, etc. Have larger meal portions. Snack on chocolate or cookies all day, always have something like that close by. A pack of cookies during the day, two or three at a time, would be about 2,000 calories by itself.

Isn't that a bit like saying you can't understand why all these overweight people can't just eat less? Of course they can. It's just hard. Same thing for people struggling to eat *more* calories than their body wants.

No? Obese people may take about overwhelming desires to binge, driven by their hormones. I've never heard of a corresponding situation for not eating. As niner said, that runs counter to millions of years of genetics.

OP is telling us about medication leading to food being undesirable. Can a different medication be considered? The point remains though, when he does eat, it should be possible to choose more calorie dense foods? That doesn't have to mean "trash" or empty calories as he said.

One more thing though. Usually, hard gainer talk comes from people who are ostensibly doing progressive overload training and seeking to add muscle. It sounds like OP just wants to add weight, with no mention of training. Won't that lead to a high proportion of weight gain being fat?

The corresponding thing would be called anorexia. Which is a very real and pervasive issue. But, I totally agree with you on everything else here. You're right.

Retro, to try and answer your question, it is due to the medication. Before this, I did not have any issues maintaining my weight, although I did have to eat a lot. The medication is the main issue for me because of the fact that it is an appetite suppressant. The problem with changing medications is the fact that it takes so long for your body to adjust to the medication, normally about 2 to 3 months. So if I were to change medication to see if one of the other two that are available would work better, I would still be backtracking. This medication may work great for me after I get out of the adjustment period, I just have to wait and see. There are only 3 medications available for adhd and all three are appetite supressants, so it would probably hurt more than help (hurt by messing with the chemicals within the brain and help or hurt depending on how bad it suppresses my appetite.)

I am very adamant about choosing calorie dense foods when I can (sometimes I opt for straight meat for a snack to boost protein, but only when I am really lacking protein for the day.) I do stay on top of it the best I can and eat when I need to, but sometimes I'm too busy to realize.

As far as training goes, my work life is enough training. An average day for me, I get about 18,000 steps in, about 10 miles (I literally run around a lot), and move anywhere from 500-2000 pounds of various things. I get enough of a workout with work, so other than defining muscle, I don't need to hit the gym. With that being said, I'm not concerned with gaining fat, because I burn through my calories so quick as I always have. Currently I'm sitting at 164.4lbs and 12.9%BF. I honestly wouldn't mind bumping that up and having more than just lean mass.

I know that I'm not anorexic, but I fear that it could become an issue if I don't stay adamant about this and fall off of my journey. This is why I added this discussion to try and find some people who I could have in my corner and give me more of a reason to fight even harder.

Edit: I would also like to say that the talk about the 3 meds did come from my doctor who I keep informed about 2 times a week.

The reason I'm worried about falling off of this journey is because one of the main issues with adhd is a dopamine deficiency. I am in a constant search to find hobbies or things that pique my interest. Once I do, it's a dopamine rush and makes me feel good. I'm like a junkie trying to find their next high. Once that hobby, life change, or whatever doesn't give me that high anymore, I revert back to my ways before and look for something else. Although the meds should help regulate that as well and make it easier, im so used to that just being the way I am and the way I'm going to be, so I want to do everything I can to make sure I don't fall off.

Retroguy2000

sollyn23l2 wrote: »

The corresponding thing would be called anorexia. Which is a very real and pervasive issue. But, I totally agree with you on everything else here. You're right.

Oh yeah, forgot about that.

layneb124

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

sollyn23l2 wrote: »

The corresponding thing would be called anorexia. Which is a very real and pervasive issue. But, I totally agree with you on everything else here. You're right.

Oh yeah, forgot about that.

😂😂😂
Yeah, that's a nasty one for sure.
I've got a couple friends that deal with it.

AnnPT77

ninerbuff wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

I used to be an ectomorph. I lost 50 pounds. Now I'm quite clearly a mesomorph.

Also cocky like niner, I guess, and I'm not even a trainer.

Somatotypes are not good science. They're widely misused in fitspo and related marketing. The terms may have some metaphorical or casual utility, but they've been misused terribly.

I understand what you're saying about having difficulty maintaining weight, i.e, eating enough to maintain, and I sympathize, even though I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. (Despite being mesomorph-shaped, I can 100% eat a whole pizza. Coincidentally, I just did, and I'm a li'l ol' lady of 5'5" running around 130 pounds these days. I don't expect the pizza to change that noticeably, BTW.)

Maintaining has challenges. (I'm in year 7+ of doing it reasonably well, after losing from class 1 obese, and after being overweight to obese for 30+ years before that). Your challenges are different from my challenges, but nearly everyone has challenges doing it.

In general, I think people here genuinely want to help others (including niner). We all have different communication styles. Because of posts over the years, there are certain terms/phrases that set some of us off (me included), and somatotypes are one of them, because of the volume of really misleading things that have been posted with those terms so many times. (Others include "starvation mode", "muscle is heavier than fat", etc.).

I'm cheering for you to succeed, though, even though we're on different courses. Best wishes!

I think you meant ENDOMORPH Ann. But you always get a pass from me.



A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Thanks for the correction, @ninerbuff, that's absolutely correct.

Anytime you think I'm wrong, I welcome your comments, since I know you engage politely and logically, plus have good insights/experience. No need to give me a pass. I feel like more insight can come from the dialectic, y'know?

GaryRuns

There are plenty of things in the human species that may be counter to survival of the species on an individual level. That's what evolution is all about. Nature causing variations and seeing which variations benefit survival. Sure, generally, most people are prone toward gaining weight because of our evolution. But, there are quite a few outliers and it shouldn't be surprising that some people have just as hard a time gaining weight as the majority of the population does losing it.

Anyway, the answer to weight gain for a lot of people with appetite problems is liquids and fats. High calorie drinks because they're quick and easy to digest. Foods with high fat content because of fat's high calorie density. Things like of oils, for cooking and dressing, for example, which kills two birds with one stone, being liquid AND high in fat. Other high-fat foods like avocados, nuts and nut butters.

Have you looked at the "hard gainer" thread? Tons of ideas in there:

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10326769/are-you-a-hard-gainer-please-read/p1

layneb124

@GaryRuns thank you for the info, I've been trying to figure some things out, but also try to eat what's available at work and then I normally eat something along the way to and from work. I know it's not the best food in the world, but it's high calories and while I have a high metabolism, I don't consider it near as bad in the short term.

jaypreston1

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

I guess I don't understand why it's so hard to eat more, when for the vast majority of the population that's the problem they hope to solve. Just eat calorie dense foods, including peanuts, peanut butter, etc. Have larger meal portions. Snack on chocolate or cookies all day, always have something like that close by. A pack of cookies during the day, two or three at a time, would be about 2,000 calories by itself.

I can, especially as someone who is also desperately trying to gain weight with ADHD and taking medication for it. Quite literally I have to remind myself that I need to eat something multiple times a day, it’s like my body can forget that’s something we need to do to survive. And then taking ADHD medications can suppress appetite on top of that. Usually for me I don’t feel like I have the desire to eat until I start eating, then it’s sort of like - “Oh hey i guess after 12 hours without food I actually was hungry.”

ADHD also makes having a sense of time difficult, most days it hits 7PM before I realize it and my intake only consists of coffee and other drinks so I’m stuck trying to cram 2000+ calories in to meet my goal in a couple of hours before bed, then I’m stuck feel bloated and like crap.

Definitely not as easy as it sounds, though I get where you are coming from. Lose weight, eat less. Gain weight, eat more. It really is that simple, butit’s much easier said than done when other factors are working against you.