Intervals for higher calorie burns

ninerbuff

When I'm in any gym, I'll always see many cardio enthusiasts just doing steady state cardio. Part of why I hate steady state cardio on a machine is that it gets really boring just doing the same thing for 30 minutes to an hour. Which BTW for any cardio only people here, the "fat burning zone" is a waste of time to stay in. Just burn as many calories as you can in a given duration.

So instead I'll do intervals. I set the treadmill on 2.0 elevation, then walk for 5 min at 3.5 speed, then ramp it up for 30 seconds at 8.0, then back down to 3.5 to recover. I'll continue this for a total of 8 cycles gradually increasing the speed on each interval (8.0, 8.5, 9.0, 9.5, 10.) Then I'll walk the last 10 minutes and reduce the speed and elevation every minute or so till I get down to a 2.5 walk to finish.

The half hour goes by WAY faster, I burned more calories than just walking 3.5 speed for 30 minutes, and having to change the speed every couple of minutes and catching my breath, keeps me from getting bored.

You can do this on any cardio equipment (stepmill is brutal on this), and as you get better at it, you can always increase the speed.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Retroguy2000

All true. That stuff is boring as hell at the gym. At home though, with access to my own TV screen so I can catch up on Netflix or whatever, the time on the bike is "free" in a way.

AnnPT77

Hmmm, maybe. I know you know what you're talking about at a more in-depth level, but as a generality this idea bleeds over into the mythology about HIIT being the gold standard for both calorie burn and fitness perfection. It's more complicated.

You know the limitations of heart-rate based calorie estimates for interval training, I'm sure. Not everyone does. Similarly, you know about the disproportionately higher fatigue/recovery penalty if things get maybe a little too intense a little too often. Not everyone does.

I agree that mixing things up is good, useful for fitness development. In that overall picture, moderate steady-state cardio has a useful role, too.

I also get that you spend a lot of time in the gym, might as well use the machines. But you know that my bias, as a generality, is that people who find cardio boring are doing the wrong cardio.

herringboxes

The treadmills in some gyms have a “speed interval” button that lets you toggle between two speeds. Even if you change your speed throughout your workout, it makes it easier to just toggle and tweak rather than crank the numbers all the way up and down every time.

sugarfreesquirrel

Can't you just select a program on a machine to avoid this problem? like fat burn, hills etc?

ninerbuff

AnnPT77 wrote: »

Hmmm, maybe. I know you know what you're talking about at a more in-depth level, but as a generality this idea bleeds over into the mythology about HIIT being the gold standard for both calorie burn and fitness perfection. It's more complicated.

You know the limitations of heart-rate based calorie estimates for interval training, I'm sure. Not everyone does. Similarly, you know about the disproportionately higher fatigue/recovery penalty if things get maybe a little too intense a little too often. Not everyone does.

I agree that mixing things up is good, useful for fitness development. In that overall picture, moderate steady-state cardio has a useful role, too.

I also get that you spend a lot of time in the gym, might as well use the machines. But you know that my bias, as a generality, is that people who find cardio boring are doing the wrong cardio.

Ann I'd love to do more outside. As it is I'm up at 4:30am and on my way to the gym to get there by 5am.
So unless I'm either willing to get up at 3:30am or do a bout after 9pm after dinner, I'm stuck with machines.
Also, it DOESN'T have to be HIIT intervals. Just an increase faster than the slower pace. Some people walk at 3.0 on a treadmill, so an interval for them could be just 5.0. All I'm conveying is that speeding up for a short duration keeps from mindlessly just going through a repetitive motion at the same speed till the clock runs out.
Sorry I should have cleared that up on the intitial post.

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ninerbuff

sugarfreesquirrel wrote: »

Can't you just select a program on a machine to avoid this problem? like fat burn, hills etc?

Ditch the "fat burn program". Yes you can. Problem is most people have no idea how to set it (even though many times the display walks you through). So by all means use the programs, just don't get overzealous and put the level too high. Last thing you want is an interval program where you can't run as fast as you need to and eat it and end up being on YOUTUBE as a gym fail.


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tomcustombuilder

I’d rather stick red hot needles in my eyes than do slow cardio

ninerbuff

herringboxes wrote: »

The treadmills in some gyms have a “speed interval” button that lets you toggle between two speeds. Even if you change your speed throughout your workout, it makes it easier to just toggle and tweak rather than crank the numbers all the way up and down every time.

Yep. I've had people ask me how to do it because I only have to hit the button once to change speeds where others are toggling it down. It's hard to do that when you've just ran at 10.0 and are trying to slow down and not screw up your gait.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Djproulx

I realize this discussion is focused around doing intervals as a way to reduce boredom and increase calorie expenditure for cardio work done in the gym. With that said, I'd add that for those who are looking to remain highly active into the late stages of life (I'm 65 now), doing interval type workouts helps us to maintain a high level of physical function as we age.

Specifically, I'm referring to training for the highest level of VO2 max as possible. (VO2 max is a measure of a person's maximal oxygen consumption. Garmin Connect displays this under "Performance Stats" in the app ) Beyond sports performance, maintaining a high VO2 max as we age allows us to continue to do things like hike up steep grades, carry heavy objects upstairs, etc. Since VO2 max declines with age, doing interval (threshold) type workouts is key to keeping this fitness.

For any who might be interested, there are lots of great video discussions online. (I like episodes #217 and #223 of Peter Attia's "The Drive" podcast addressing VO2 max and longevity).

yirara

One thing to keep in mind is also that people might not be fit enough to do intervals. If they give up after just one interval the workout might in the end be a lot shorter and burn a lot less calories. Not having done any endurance type training for the past 8 months I know all I can do is very slow steady state running with walking intervals (I think. Will find out next week ). People a lot less fit might just give up.

ninerbuff

Djproulx wrote: »

I realize this discussion is focused around doing intervals as a way to reduce boredom and increase calorie expenditure for cardio work done in the gym. With that said, I'd add that for those who are looking to remain highly active into the late stages of life (I'm 65 now), doing interval type workouts helps us to maintain a high level of physical function as we age.

Specifically, I'm referring to training for the highest level of VO2 max as possible. (VO2 max is a measure of a person's maximal oxygen consumption. Garmin Connect displays this under "Performance Stats" in the app ) Beyond sports performance, maintaining a high VO2 max as we age allows us to continue to do things like hike up steep grades, carry heavy objects upstairs, etc. Since VO2 max declines with age, doing interval (threshold) type workouts is key to keeping this fitness.

For any who might be interested, there are lots of great video discussions online. (I like episodes #217 and #223 of Peter Attia's "The Drive" podcast addressing VO2 max and longevity).

Yes a great point. I'm almost 60 and teach a cardio kickboxing class. There are several intervals in the class and I can do all of them with no breaks whereas some people half my age struggle and have to stop to catch their breath. It's always satisfying to me to be able to keep up with people so much younger than myself on a fitness level.

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tomcustombuilder

yirara wrote: »

One thing to keep in mind is also that people might not be fit enough to do intervals. If they give up after just one interval the workout might in the end be a lot shorter and burn a lot less calories. Not having done any endurance type training for the past 8 months I know all I can do is very slow steady state running with walking intervals (I think. Will find out next week ). People a lot less fit might just give up.

You can do intervals without going hard. You just vary the intensity which in the unfit will be a lot lower than a fit person

michael6186

@ninerbuff So when is a good time to do long, slow, boring cardio?

Can interval training replace LISS all together?

Should someone do both intervals and LISS?

How many times per week do you recommend using the methods you've described and for how long each session?

Where should a beginner start?

How do you recommend progressions?

AnnPT77

If the point is breaking up a workout so there's more variety so less boredom, there can be options other than intensity intervals, or at least distinct from purely intensity variation intervals.

The thing I know best is rowing, on-water and machine. Even on machines, we work with things like rating (strokes per minute) patterns. (No, spm doesn't necessarily directly correlate with intensity, though there's some association.) One common one is rating pyramids (start at a particular spm rating, go up by X spm every Y minutes (or meters) for a few rounds, then go back down in similar steps. For beginners, just holding a given spm rating can be a mental challenge. Sometimes I work at trying to hold a particular spm/pace combination, which is a little more intermediate variation.

For any cardio with a technical dimension - which rowing has but I suspect is less a factor with many popular gym machines - varying technical focus is another way to break up the workout.

I do this a lot on the rowing machine in Winter, but we also do it on water. So, maybe it's X strokes focusing on fast hands-away/body-over, or on accelerating in the arms phase of the drive, either of which can be done on a rowing machine. (There are lots of others, too, even on a machine: Those are just a couple of examples.)

On water, there are even more technical focus options, since there's still most of the technique needed on the machine, plus balance, bladework, etc. Coaches will spend large sections of group practices working on drills, which I believe some other technical cardio formats can also have. There are dozens of common drills. An easy to understand example is pause drills, where you stop briefly at a given point in each stroke, like at hands away, then resume the stroke. (It reinforces how you're supposed to semi-separately prep the various body parts during each stroke, then exploit that prep to apply power.)

And sure, we do pure intensity intervals, too.

AnnPT77

michael6186 wrote: »

@ninerbuff So when is a good time to do long, slow, boring cardio?

Can interval training replace LISS all together?

Should someone do both intervals and LISS?

How many times per week do you recommend using the methods you've described and for how long each session?

Where should a beginner start?

How do you recommend progressions?

. . . and to what extent would the answers differ depending on what the person's fitness/athletic goals are?

nossmf

Also remember that changing speed is not the only way to create an interval effect. There's also angle, resistance, exertion...

spiriteagle99

If your goal is simply to burn calories, then doing intervals may help you do that, especially if your time is limited. If you have more time, and can go for longer time and distance, then steady state will burn more calories. If your goal is racing, then many/most? coaches recommend doing most of your training at a slow easy pace with higher intensity workouts only once or twice a week. (80/20 rule.)

Doing extremely hard intervals can be counterproductive if you end up holding on to the arms of the treadmill, can't complete your workout because you are winded, can't do your workout the next day, or if you pull something by pushing yourself harder than your body will allow. I ended up with long term hamstring damage by trying to keep up with faster runners on a group run.

Lietchi

I agree with the 'don't do fatburning zone' recommendation.
But steady state isn't the same as LISS/'slow cardio'/fatburning zone.

Almost all the running I do is steady state - I hate fiddling with the controls on my treadmill and short intervals would drive me nuts (my preset speed buttons are 4, 8, 12 and 16kph, all the rest is through manual changes by 0.1kph increments). But I'm definitely not doing slow cardio when I'm running, I just prefer to vary my speed between runs, not so much within the same sessions.
Steady-state walking can be pretty intense too at the appropriate incline and speed.
As for it being boring: sure, it would be if I didn't have my television At the gym, not being in charge of what you're watching might make it less fun, but listening to a podcast or audiobook on headphones could be a way to keep it interesting.

ninerbuff

michael6186 wrote: »

@ninerbuff So when is a good time to do long, slow, boring cardio?

Can interval training replace LISS all together?

Whenever you feel like it. Not everyday is going to be an energetic day. When I feel like it's a "blah" day, I just lower my intensity on any exercise.

Should someone do both intervals and LISS?

Should they? Personally I believe so. Increasing your VO2 max is good whether you're an athlete or not. Can't do that with LISS.

How many times per week do you recommend using the methods you've described and for how long each session?

Depends on the intensity of the intervals. Can be done everyday if the intervals are moderate. If it's HIIT intervals or Tababta Protocol, no more that 3 times a week max.

Where should a beginner start?

I have my clients start at whatever they are comfortable walking or doing biking, elliptical then for the interval go up 2 levels above that for 30 seconds. As they get better they can go as long as 1 min. Once you hit the minute mark, increase the intensity another 1 or 2 levels and go back to 30 seconds.

How do you recommend progressions?

I mentioned it above.


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AnnPT77

Lietchi wrote: »

I agree with the 'don't do fatburning zone' recommendation.
But steady state isn't the same as LISS/'slow cardio'/fatburning zone.

Almost all the running I do is steady state - I hate fiddling with the controls on my treadmill and short intervals would drive me nuts (my preset speed buttons are 4, 8, 12 and 16kph, all the rest is through manual changes by 0.1kph increments). But I'm definitely not doing slow cardio when I'm running, I just prefer to vary my speed between runs, not so much within the same sessions.
Steady-state walking can be pretty intense too at the appropriate incline and speed.
As for it being boring: sure, it would be if I didn't have my television At the gym, not being in charge of what you're watching might make it less fun, but listening to a podcast or audiobook on headphones could be a way to keep it interesting.

Regarding the bolded: I know that Niner's understanding is more nuanced, but I have to say that that concept is one of my pet peeves about common perceptions, too. There are smart, fit people here who speak as if LISS and intervals are polar opposites. That's IMO misleading.

"Steady state" is a pacing strategy. Intervals are a pacing strategy.

Low, medium/moderate, high are potential ways to characterize intensity.

Pacing strategies can mix and match with intensities, though not all combinations make sense.

LISS is a common combination, but MISS (medium/moderate intensity steady state), and HISS (high intensity etc.) are also possible combinations.

Intervals can be varied, though low intensity intervals (I guess that would be LIIT?) probably doesn't make a lot of sense, unless maybe one might characterize a walk/rest interval activity as that. For sure, MIIT and HIIT are possible, and there may be variation in either the intensity of the work part of the intervals or the intensity of the rest part - either binary step up/down in intensity or multi-step (low to medium to high, maybe back down as a pyramid).

(In any variation where there's continuous movement, of course the rest intervals aren't pure rest, but I can't think of another term to use instead. In rowing, we often call the rest-ish part "off" (like 2' on, 30" off), but in a lot of cases the "off" is still moving, just less intensely.)

I'm not going to go into a silly-long essay here, but many of these varied combinations of pacing/intensity have a training purpose, for at least some sports/fitness goals.

As a generality, there are implications for duration of the pacing/intensity combination, too. To use an extreme example, no one is doing what is (for them) 2 continuous hours of high intensity steady state. If a person can do it for 2 hours, it isn't functionally high intensity for that person. (The same is true for HIIT workouts - that they're somewhat self-limiting in duration - but that's more complicated.)

In rowing, we sometimes use "LSD" - Long, Slow Distance - as the label instead of "LISS". Conceptually, I think that makes more sense, makes it easier to be clear . . . but not all activities have distance, of course.