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Is it ethical to take the diabetes drug Ozempic when you don't have diabetes?

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  • glp1curious
    glp1curious Posts: 10 Member
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    Wow quite the thread here -- definitely agree with what was said so far. I think most people would agree that in the face of a pressing need for some formulations of the drug, it's unethical to compete with people who have a higher need for the drug.
    sollyn23l2 wrote: »
    PAV8888 wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    I think non diabetic patients, unless morbidly obese, should refrain from taking supply from those who medically need it
    FIFY :wink: I agree that people who medically need these drugs should get first dibs. Regardless as to WHY they medically need them.

    I am NOT convinced that (world-wide) only "last resort" diabetics are getting the prescriptions--so probably NOT a moot point to accept that this is the true situation. Any more so than I am convinced that only "last resort" weight loss patients are getting them.

    The allocation issue is also probably getting further complicated by short and long term business considerations of competing drug manufacturers and of their internal units and departments.

    Yup. Agreed. I'll say that since Weight Watchers is now preparing to hand out ozempic like candy, it's safe to say it's not being used as a last resort.

    I'm interested to learn more about this -- Do you have a link to any of the news/press releases regarding Weight Watchers' intent to work Ozempic so deeply into their programs?

  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,001 Member
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    PAV8888 wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    I think non diabetic patients, unless morbidly obese, should refrain from taking supply from those who medically need it
    FIFY :wink: I agree that people who medically need these drugs should get first dibs. Regardless as to WHY they medically need them.

    I am NOT convinced that (world-wide) only "last resort" diabetics are getting the prescriptions--so probably NOT a moot point to accept that this is the true situation. Any more so than I am convinced that only "last resort" weight loss patients are getting them.

    The allocation issue is also probably getting further complicated by short and long term business considerations of competing drug manufacturers and of their internal units and departments.


    Can't speak for other countries, nor did I . My post clearly related to Australia.

    In Australia PBS scripts for Ozempic are only for diabetic patients not achieving satisfactory BSL control on oral medication. Not sure how that doesn't qualify as a last resort or at least a last resort before insulin.

    Anyone else is getting it in private script - IMO those people, unless morbidly obese, should refrain from doing so whilst there is a shortage.
  • sollyn23l2
    sollyn23l2 Posts: 1,621 Member
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    glp1curious wrote: »
    Wow quite the thread here -- definitely agree with what was said so far. I think most people would agree that in the face of a pressing need for some formulations of the drug, it's unethical to compete with people who have a higher need for the drug.
    sollyn23l2 wrote: »
    PAV8888 wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    I think non diabetic patients, unless morbidly obese, should refrain from taking supply from those who medically need it
    FIFY :wink: I agree that people who medically need these drugs should get first dibs. Regardless as to WHY they medically need them.

    I am NOT convinced that (world-wide) only "last resort" diabetics are getting the prescriptions--so probably NOT a moot point to accept that this is the true situation. Any more so than I am convinced that only "last resort" weight loss patients are getting them.

    The allocation issue is also probably getting further complicated by short and long term business considerations of competing drug manufacturers and of their internal units and departments.

    Yup. Agreed. I'll say that since Weight Watchers is now preparing to hand out ozempic like candy, it's safe to say it's not being used as a last resort.

    I'm interested to learn more about this -- Do you have a link to any of the news/press releases regarding Weight Watchers' intent to work Ozempic so deeply into their programs?

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/weightwatchers-prescription-drugs-telehealth-1.6771155
  • Songbird_30
    Songbird_30 Posts: 20 Member
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    Priority should be given to people with medical needs but I think it’s more of a supply demand issue that needs to be sorted out rather than people who want an easy way to lose weight buying it all.
  • MargaretYakoda
    MargaretYakoda Posts: 2,431 Member
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    I’m a T2 diabetic whose Dr is recommending a semeglutide for NAFLD

    I’ve been in excellent blood glucose control since my diabetes diagnosis a couple years ago. Diet, exercise and some Metformin.

    However, I have had NAFLD since long before my diabetes began. I wasn’t really that fat when it started. Maybe a little into the overweight category.

    Anyway, since we’re talking about who should and shouldn’t get semeglutides, I thought I’d throw the liver issues these drugs can help with.

    Here’s a meta analysis: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37717295/#:~:text=Conclusion: Treatment with 24 weeks,could be a major concern.

    “Conclusion: Treatment with 24 weeks of semaglutide could significantly improve liver enzymes, reduce liver stiffness, and improve metabolic parameters in patients with NAFLD/NASH. However, the gastrointestinal adverse effects could be a major concern”
  • MargaretYakoda
    MargaretYakoda Posts: 2,431 Member
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    Donzzzzzz wrote: »
    Zepbound > Ozempic. More effective, fewer side effects.

    Is it ethical for T2 diabetics to continue to eat carbs and deny Ozempic to the obese?

    Yes. It is ethical for T2 diabetics to continue to eat carbs.

    Or do you mean “is it ethical for a person who has a medical condition to continue to eat in a manner that might be having a negative impact on their health?”

    Because that’s a different question.
  • Adventurista
    Adventurista Posts: 402 Member
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    @MargaretYakoda ~ interesting, ty for the info.

    - does your insurance cover?
    - - has the med been recognized fot treatment of NAFLD/NASH yet, or is it still considered off label.
    - -- wondering if insurance covered for you? Meaning, if no type2, then would it be covered?
  • AdahPotatah2024
    AdahPotatah2024 Posts: 1,040 Member
    edited March 22
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    If it's taken w/ Dr. approval for any sort of medical reason, it is ethically sound to take it.
    Any way you look at it, whatever religion or philosophy you might follow, to take medicine that is in high demand by diseased, sick individuals, and in low supply ,for purely aesthetic reasons , is completely unethical. (Does this apply to Ozempic?)I don't see how anyone could justify taking it just to lose 20-30 pounds if it is in low supply.. I'd feel sorry for anyone who lives their life so clueless, if so.
  • MargaretYakoda
    MargaretYakoda Posts: 2,431 Member
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    Adventurista wrote: »
    @MargaretYakoda ~ interesting, ty for the info.

    - does your insurance cover?
    - - has the med been recognized fot treatment of NAFLD/NASH yet, or is it still considered off label.
    - -- wondering if insurance covered for you? Meaning, if no type2, then would it be covered?

    My insurance should cover it because of my BMI and the diabetes diagnosis.

    It hasn’t been prescribed yet, but that should happen soon.

    As far as I know semaglutides are still off label for NAFLD. But the research is very strong that this class of drugs are beneficial for people with this type of liver disease.
  • Adventurista
    Adventurista Posts: 402 Member
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    @MargaretYakoda ~ ty, hope it helps, and if you do see improvements, would love to know :)
  • AdahPotatah2024
    AdahPotatah2024 Posts: 1,040 Member
    edited March 22
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    Is it ethical to take the diabetes drug Ozempic when you don't have diabetes?

    I had to look this up to see that it's not really even anything for people to ponder..Here, anyway..

    "At Novo Nordisk, patient safety is paramount. We want to reinforce that Wegovy® is the only semaglutide-containing Novo Nordisk medication approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for chronic weight management in adults with obesity or overweight with weight-related medical problems. This prescription-only medicine is available in a disposable single-use pen and should be prescribed in direct consultation with, and under the supervision of, a licensed healthcare professional. We support these medicines being prescribed to patients who meet the FDA-approved criteria and promote our medicines for those appropriate patients. Our other semaglutide-based products, Ozempic® (semaglutide) injection 0.5 mg, 1 mg, or 2 mg and RYBELSUS® (semaglutide) tablets 7 mg or 14 mg, which are indicated for adults with type 2 diabetes, have unique safety and efficacy profiles and are not FDA-approved for chronic weight management. Please see important product information, including the Prescribing Information for our semaglutide products at semaglutide.com......
    We continue to build and invest in new manufacturing capacity. In 2024, we will - once again - significantly step up our investments in production. We plan to invest approximately $6.5 billion in production, compared to investments of approximately $3.6 billion last year."

    So, yes, if you take some black market ozempic you would be considered unethical. And I'd be careful it's not some sort of deathly rip off version!
  • Adventurista
    Adventurista Posts: 402 Member
    edited March 22
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    Breaking news, medicare may now cover the drugs when there is heart disease too. Although appears optional for insurers to include at this point in part d plans.

    https://www.axios.com/2024/03/21/medicare-wegovy-ozempic-weight-loss-drugs-allow

  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,001 Member
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    So, yes, if you take some black market ozempic you would be considered unethical. And I'd be careful it's not some sort of deathly rip off version!

    I don't think anyone was talking about people doing that.

    I know medical systems obviously vary by country - but here in Australia it is PBS ( pharmacetical benifits scheme ) approved and therefore at PBS subsidised price, for diabetics for whom oral medication is not sufficient.
    People can get it on a private script ie still same genuine product from same pharmacies,not an unknown black market version, for weight loss.
    They will be paying full price though, not PBS price.

    Question to me is whether it is ethical doing so when there is a shortage for diabetics.
  • MargaretYakoda
    MargaretYakoda Posts: 2,431 Member
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    paperpudding wrote: »
    So, yes, if you take some black market ozempic you would be considered unethical. And I'd be careful it's not some sort of deathly rip off version!

    I don't think anyone was talking about people doing that.

    I know medical systems obviously vary by country - but here in Australia it is PBS ( pharmacetical benifits scheme ) approved and therefore at PBS subsidised price, for diabetics for whom oral medication is not sufficient.
    People can get it on a private script ie still same genuine product from same pharmacies,not an unknown black market version, for weight loss.
    They will be paying full price though, not PBS price.

    Question to me is whether it is ethical doing so when there is a shortage for diabetics.

    I would say that it’s ethical if it’s being used to treat the other conditions that a semeglutide can treat. Even if it’s off label, and even if you choose to pay for it without insurance help.

    Liver disease is no joke.

    If someone is using it just for a weight loss boost? I agree that while shortages remain, that doesn’t sit well with me.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,541 Member
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    Isn't the biggest factor of Ozempic for weight loss, just the appetite suppressing? There are other supplements that can do that for much less if that's the desire.
    But, if one can't learn how to suppress their eating without Ozempic, the weight will return. So they'd have to be on Ozempic forever to maintain.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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    Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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  • AdahPotatah2024
    AdahPotatah2024 Posts: 1,040 Member
    edited March 22
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    Oh, I don't know if that would even be possible here, a private script. I would consider it unethical of the Dr./pharmacists as well if it is low supply for those who need it medically and they allow that. Anyway, it seems to me like there will be plenty to go around soon, at least in the U.S. I would take the one specifically for weight loss, not Ozempic, if I didn't have diabetes and was into losing weight that way, regardless. I was reading there's been many casualties due to overdose of Ozempic. 🫣
  • AdahPotatah2024
    AdahPotatah2024 Posts: 1,040 Member
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    If I were just trying to lose 40 pounds for aesthetician reasons, I'd try to suppress my appetite naturally first. There's oats, peanut butter, avocado, beans and last resort, like he said, other supplements out there that do the same thing.
  • AdahPotatah2024
    AdahPotatah2024 Posts: 1,040 Member
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    That being said, a lot of pharmaceuticals are based on natural substances and the dosages of the active ingredients are regulated better than natural medicines/suppliments.That makes me feel better about taking certain medications as I have always had an extreme distrust of the medical/pharm industry for some reason.
    I haven't really researched into these hormonal drugs, though, to know if I'd take them or not for medical reasons.

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