Muscle gaing

nossmf

@retroguy2000 is saying to lift while losing weight, just don't make it your focus.

@springlering62 is saying to lift while losing weight, don't wait.

Am I the only person who fails to see what the argument is about? Each is behaving as if the other is completely negating what the other is saying, when I read both of them saying "lift while you lose weight."

Who cares about how much muscle is actually gained versus simply retained but becomes more visible due to less fat hiding it? Net result in either case is the person loses fat without losing muscle, is overall healthier and probably stronger (either from gaining muscle, improving mind-muscle connection, or simply having less bodyweight to sling around).

Now, if an OP asks about "how can I turn this 100 lbs of fat into Arnold Schwarzenegger?" that would be a different discussion. But that's not what I'm seeing here, so why are we trying to make this out to be that type of argument?

tomcustombuilder

His response to me on another forum when I told him he wouldn't be successful without patience after several other posters tried to help him out but he just wanted to argue. It was followed up with a highly profane DM which I won't repeat.

(Originally Posted by Tommy W. View Post)

"Prepare to spin your wheels and make zero progress"


What do you mean Prepare to spin your wheels and make zero progress dude i give you the whole time as much information i can and you give me a lazy answer i don't even know the meaning of it
if you don't wanna help me or don't know how to help me then keep your mouth shut damn it.

Theoldguy1

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

To put it simply.

The optimal way to lose 100 pounds is a large calorie deficit. Say 1-2 pounds per week.

The optimal way to build muscle is a calorie surplus.

Nobody is saying you can't get some of the benefits of both at the same time, but if you think you can get all the benefits of both at the same time, then I have a bridge to sell you.

There is 100 pounds worth of calorie surplus available. Why is that difficult to understand?

Now the person should adjust intake to lose weight as well as increase calories burned. The most efficient time-benefit wise to burn calories is aerobic exercise. However, the person should also do resistance work and if they have the time can do extensive resistance work and sure build muscle are they are losing the weight.

Retroguy2000

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

There is 100 pounds worth of calorie surplus available. Why is that difficult to understand?

Now the person should adjust intake to lose weight as well as increase calories burned. The most efficient time-benefit wise to burn calories is aerobic exercise. However, the person should also do resistance work and if they have the time can do extensive resistance work and sure build muscle are they are losing the weight.

Bodybuilders call their cycles bulking and cutting, i.e. the gaining of muscle, and the shedding of fat. They don't call their cycles "adding muscle" and "adding the same amount of muscle while losing fat". If the latter were a thing, the former would be pointless.

PAV8888

The overwhelming answer for the overwhelming number of people who are starting with 100+lbs available to lose and are not in their 20s or and/or on steroids is zero muscle building if you also don't lose some weight.

Because they are not in good enough physical condition right now before they've started losing the weight to actually hit the gym effectively.

I sure as crap wasn't. Because had I been I probably would NOT have had 100+lbs available to lose

So the original question is either a very edge case or barking up the wrong goal for your current circumstances tree.

The physiological answer is that it is an energy availability question.

The 100lbs of available fat provides favourable conditions of energy availability to be used for muscle building.

10lbs of available fat doesn't.

Yes, until the over abundance of fat reserves reduces and in the absence of an insane deficit and under the constraint of the person's ability to exercise there is no reason to wait or dither or to be trying to optimize the results before any effort has gone toward obtaining them.

Create a 20% deficit and hit the gym with a good program, good supervision, and good form. Call in again after a few months to discuss further optimization

Theoldguy1

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

There is 100 pounds worth of calorie surplus available. Why is that difficult to understand?

Now the person should adjust intake to lose weight as well as increase calories burned. The most efficient time-benefit wise to burn calories is aerobic exercise. However, the person should also do resistance work and if they have the time can do extensive resistance work and sure build muscle are they are losing the weight.

Bodybuilders call their cycles bulking and cutting, i.e. the gaining of muscle, and the shedding of fat. They don't call their cycles "adding muscle" and "adding the same amount of muscle while losing fat". If the latter were a thing, the former would be pointless.

Bulking and cutting may be appropriate for for males in the 6%-20% bodyfat range (around 10-25% for females) and often on gear. Not something for most of the population. Someone with 100 pounds to lose is definitely not in that conversation.

Again extra calories are needed to build muscle. Someone with 100 pounds to lose has the extra calories as stored fat. A bodybuilder in the 10% bodyfat range does not the extra calories stored as fat since they are approaching the minimal fat levels required for health. Hence they will need to eat in a calorie surplus. If they want, perhaps up to the 15-20% BF range, then cut.

zebasschick

after the first year of the pandemic, my legs were too weak for me to get off a chair without using my arms to push up. i had been riding my exercise bike at low resistance to work around injuries, and when i stopped going anywhere, i discovered walking had been my main weight-bearing (baring?) exercise.

i lost 20 pounds in that year and during that same year i put enough muscle to get out of chairs, exercise by walking up and down stairs, and started using a treadmill at a 5% incline, none of which i could do a year before. i focus on protein first, and i eat small "meals" every 2 to 2 1/2 hours. i'm now eating at maintenance, and i continue to put on muscle - it's visible now. am i bulging with muscle? nope. but i'm much stronger and more able, and most of that was eating at a deficit.

i'm not a doctor or a dietician, but my suggestion to the OP or anyone with this question - do start working out now. don't work out a your max capacity if you're eating at a deficit - make your workouts strenuous and intense but don't work out heavier than you can do 8 controlled reps at. because when eating at a deficit, you probably won't have the ability to recover as well. do eat enough protein. if possible, find a couple protein snacks that fit in your calorie budget.