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Economic impact of overweight and obesity to surpass $4 trillion in 10 years
ddsb1111
Posts: 871 Member
The economic impact of overweight and obesity is set to soar past $4 trillion in the next decade. This isn't just about individual health - it's a crisis that affects us all. Our choices ripple out from us, impacting our families, our communities, and our nation as a whole. This isn't about blame, it's about recognizing that we're all in this together. The time for excuses is over.
What are you doing about it? What is stopping you from doing anything? What are the challenges that are making you one of the billion people and counting? If you lost the weight, what advice do you have ? Let’s have a serious conversation about it, with no excuses. We can’t afford that anymore. Thank you for your contribution.
What are you doing about it? What is stopping you from doing anything? What are the challenges that are making you one of the billion people and counting? If you lost the weight, what advice do you have ? Let’s have a serious conversation about it, with no excuses. We can’t afford that anymore. Thank you for your contribution.
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I mean we're not the ones who put so much junk in our foods to make it go further and taste better, are we.
Sure it's our choice what we actually do eat but when you've got 100 different variations all covered in buzz words like low fat, low sugar it's kinda hard to pick the right ones.
Not to mention a health care system that just pushes more pills onto you rather than address real causes.2 -
Leo- you’re breaking the only rule 😉 lol. Just kidding I hear you, but that’s not an action step for change. This is the reality, now what are we doing about those challenges? I’d love to hear what you are doing.1
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Captialism rules here and food companies and health care aren't as concerned about our health because what we're doing to ourselves makes them more money.Leo_King84 wrote: »I mean we're not the ones who put so much junk in our foods to make it go further and taste better, are we.
Sure it's our choice what we actually do eat but when you've got 100 different variations all covered in buzz words like low fat, low sugar it's kinda hard to pick the right ones.
Not to mention a health care system that just pushes more pills onto you rather than address real causes.
It is TOTALLY the responsibility of the individual. I've spoken many times about how when people immigrate from poorer countries to here, get a good job and within 10 years are 30-50lbs heavier when they arrived. More money for individuals ALLOWS them to indulge and that's a conscious decision. Sure, you want to enjoy things you may have never had or tasted, but overindulgence seems to just continue.
Also my opinion is that people are more concerned with status than health which is why they forego things like eating more sensibly and having a routine physical fitness program to keep them fit.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Interesting topic @ddsb1111
When I look back at times in my life when I was overweight - I was choosing quick, high calorie foods. I was snacking on too many low quality, also high calorie foods.
I became interested in the idea of nutrition and nutrient dense food… I thought about the quality of the foods I was eating… something shifted in me and I decided to be more mindful about what I put in my body.
I was also painfully aware that I had a few chronically ill family members and being obese and in a constant state of inflammation caused them a lot of heartache. So I decided to take my health seriously.
Keeping alcohol to a minimum has saved me a lot of empty calories, eating no ultra processed foods and focusing on whole foods has helped me.
It’s an ongoing project and even today - I wish I had had more of a focus on quality and nutrition years ago, but Im grateful I'm able to focus on that now.
I keep my weight down, eat well, move more an keep my health in check with blood work and trying to be in tune with my body. It’s not perfect.. but it’s where I’m at with my health project. I keep looking for ways I can improve.
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Captialism rules here and food companies and health care aren't as concerned about our health because what we're doing to ourselves makes them more money.Leo_King84 wrote: »I mean we're not the ones who put so much junk in our foods to make it go further and taste better, are we.
Sure it's our choice what we actually do eat but when you've got 100 different variations all covered in buzz words like low fat, low sugar it's kinda hard to pick the right ones.
Not to mention a health care system that just pushes more pills onto you rather than address real causes.
It is TOTALLY the responsibility of the individual. I've spoken many times about how when people immigrate from poorer countries to here, get a good job and within 10 years are 30-50lbs heavier when they arrived. More money for individuals ALLOWS them to indulge and that's a conscious decision. Sure, you want to enjoy things you may have never had or tasted, but overindulgence seems to just continue.
Also my opinion is that people are more concerned with status than health which is why they forego things like eating more sensibly and having a routine physical fitness program to keep them fit.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
100% this. Food companies sell us what we want. If we really wanted "healthier" foods, that's what they would sell us. But we don't. We want the crap. We want the dominos pizza... meatlovers, thank you, hold the vegetables, we want the big Mac, we want the doritos, cheetos, sour patch kids, washed down with a can of coke, or better yet, a milkshake. We want it, so they sell it.2 -
Captialism rules here and food companies and health care aren't as concerned about our health because what we're doing to ourselves makes them more money.Leo_King84 wrote: »I mean we're not the ones who put so much junk in our foods to make it go further and taste better, are we.
Sure it's our choice what we actually do eat but when you've got 100 different variations all covered in buzz words like low fat, low sugar it's kinda hard to pick the right ones.
Not to mention a health care system that just pushes more pills onto you rather than address real causes.
It is TOTALLY the responsibility of the individual. I've spoken many times about how when people immigrate from poorer countries to here, get a good job and within 10 years are 30-50lbs heavier when they arrived. More money for individuals ALLOWS them to indulge and that's a conscious decision. Sure, you want to enjoy things you may have never had or tasted, but overindulgence seems to just continue.
Also my opinion is that people are more concerned with status than health which is why they forego things like eating more sensibly and having a routine physical fitness program to keep them fit.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
You’ve been doing this a long time, do you think the cost and impact is too immense for people to take 4 Trillion and 1/2 the globe being over weight personally? What does it take?
Using Leo’s (sorry Leo) excuse of ‘it’s not fair’ reasoning, what if that 4 Trillion only impacted those in that demographic, and it didn’t impact those who don’t contribute to the epidemic? Would that make a difference? Since, technically speaking, it’s not fair to those who aren’t obese?
I’m probably going to throw out a lot of random scenarios to see what connects.1 -
There's a great book I read awhile back.......I forgot the author, but it's called Fat, Sugar, and Salt. There is no denying that this stuff tastes good to people but why, in the 80's, did this start to get out of hand?
Actually, it started back in the 1950's when fast food and sugary cereals came on the scene. But portions were my smaller back then, people were more active in general, and there was the nuclear family with Mom cooking the family meal. I see teenagers snacking on Seasoned Curly Fries at 10:00 AM, and toddlers with their Moms eating junk food out of Ziploc bags.1 -
I keep my weight down, eat well, move more an keep my health in check with blood work and trying to be in tune with my body. It’s not perfect.. but it’s where I’m at with my health project. I keep looking for ways I can improve.
This is what it takes. You wake up in the morning and you decide. You plan for scenarios that don’t serve you. It’s not easy but it’s doable. You see the same tabloids, commercials, grocery store isles, yet here you are 👏🏻.3 -
There's a great book I read awhile back.......I forgot the author, but it's called Fat, Sugar, and Salt. There is no denying that this stuff tastes good to people but why, in the 80's, did this start to get out of hand?
Actually, it started back in the 1950's when fast food and sugary cereals came on the scene. But portions were my smaller back then, people were more active in general, and there was the nuclear family with Mom cooking the family meal. I see teenagers snacking on Seasoned Curly Fries at 10:00 AM, and toddlers with their Moms eating junk food out of Ziploc bags.
I see these things too. But, do you think our eating should be governed since we’ve collectively decided to ignore the serving size? Do you think our activities should be governed since we choose to not be active? Do you think we should govern nuclear families? What do we do with the situation we have now? Don’t you think a big part of that is personal accountability or do you think there should be consequences? When do we start governing ourselves?0 -
No question, there should be personal accountability. The point I was making is that there are factors making resisting temptation more difficult than it was decades ago.
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There's a great book I read awhile back.......I forgot the author, but it's called Fat, Sugar, and Salt. There is no denying that this stuff tastes good to people but why, in the 80's, did this start to get out of hand?
Actually, it started back in the 1950's when fast food and sugary cereals came on the scene. But portions were my smaller back then, people were more active in general, and there was the nuclear family with Mom cooking the family meal. I see teenagers snacking on Seasoned Curly Fries at 10:00 AM, and toddlers with their Moms eating junk food out of Ziploc bags.
I see these things too. But, do you think our eating should be governed since we’ve collectively decided to ignore the serving size? Do you think our activities should be governed since we choose to not be active? Do you think we should govern nuclear families? What do we do with the situation we have now? Don’t you think a big part of that is personal accountability or do you think there should be consequences? When do we start governing ourselves?
Just a quick aside... in the US we do govern the nuclear family. You cannot legally marry three people together.... polyamory and polygamy are not legally recognized as marriages by the government.3 -
sollyn23l2 wrote: »There's a great book I read awhile back.......I forgot the author, but it's called Fat, Sugar, and Salt. There is no denying that this stuff tastes good to people but why, in the 80's, did this start to get out of hand?
Actually, it started back in the 1950's when fast food and sugary cereals came on the scene. But portions were my smaller back then, people were more active in general, and there was the nuclear family with Mom cooking the family meal. I see teenagers snacking on Seasoned Curly Fries at 10:00 AM, and toddlers with their Moms eating junk food out of Ziploc bags.
I see these things too. But, do you think our eating should be governed since we’ve collectively decided to ignore the serving size? Do you think our activities should be governed since we choose to not be active? Do you think we should govern nuclear families? What do we do with the situation we have now? Don’t you think a big part of that is personal accountability or do you think there should be consequences? When do we start governing ourselves?
Just a quick aside... in the US we do govern the nuclear family. You cannot legally marry three people together.... polyamory and polygamy are not legally recognized as marriages by the government.
Correction 😊 Govern the nuclear family’s system for food preparation ie make the woman stay home and feed the family, since people were less overweight back then.
We can’t go back. We can only go forward.1 -
sollyn23l2 wrote: »There's a great book I read awhile back.......I forgot the author, but it's called Fat, Sugar, and Salt. There is no denying that this stuff tastes good to people but why, in the 80's, did this start to get out of hand?
Actually, it started back in the 1950's when fast food and sugary cereals came on the scene. But portions were my smaller back then, people were more active in general, and there was the nuclear family with Mom cooking the family meal. I see teenagers snacking on Seasoned Curly Fries at 10:00 AM, and toddlers with their Moms eating junk food out of Ziploc bags.
I see these things too. But, do you think our eating should be governed since we’ve collectively decided to ignore the serving size? Do you think our activities should be governed since we choose to not be active? Do you think we should govern nuclear families? What do we do with the situation we have now? Don’t you think a big part of that is personal accountability or do you think there should be consequences? When do we start governing ourselves?
Just a quick aside... in the US we do govern the nuclear family. You cannot legally marry three people together.... polyamory and polygamy are not legally recognized as marriages by the government.
Correction 😊 Govern the nuclear family’s system for food preparation ie make the woman stay home and feed the family, since people were less overweight back then.
We can’t go back. We can only go forward.
Fact. We can only move forward.1 -
A big impact could come from changing the menus of public school lunches and offering nutrition classes.
I taught in public and private schools in NYC for a while - I remember the huge difference in what was offered for lunch.
This was a part of my wake up call. Such a disparity in the quality of food.
The board of ed still has their menus online - they offer pizza, chicken nuggets, mozzarella sticks, fries. There are also salad offerings but these are paired with tubs of high sugar, hi cal dressings and as a compliment to the mains above.
When I taught in a very high end private high school (tuition >$50k per year) the cafeteria was like 4 star dining. They did not offer anything they did not deem “healthy”. Lunches were salmon, chicken breast, lean proteins , all shades of vegetables. No soda or fruit juice allowed. No added sugar, no fried foods.. no vending machines.
Is it economic? A tale of 2 cities?
We spend a fortune on public schools and the quickest way to make a change would be to change what’s offered in public school lunches. It’s just as easy to promote the cafeteria as a place of learning for the public schools as it is in the $$$ private schools.
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Of course it's down to the individual to make the choices but not everybody has the information available to make the right choices.
I read an article yesterday about the guy who came up with the hypothesis that saturated fat is bad for you, funnily enough it was in the 1950s, as mentioned above by a other poster. He happened to be in the right place, at the right time and put his theory to a cardiologist who happened to be the Doctor for some president, Eiffenhower? (Sorry, my American history is poor). The president had heart problems and this dudes like, yo it's gotta be the saturated fat. Because heart disease was unheard of up until that point, it was very rare and scary and everybody went with it... even though as stated above around the 1950s was when America started making cereals and such.
Anyway, there's been lots of studies since that disprove saturated fat of causing any heart problems and that you don't need to limit it at all.
Now let's say I'm new to healthy eating and I'm googling. Without really, really digging deep the majority of information will tell me that saturated fat is the devil... so how am I supposed to make informed decisions of what I eat when I can't even get the correct information?
I'm a month into carnivore diet, I love it and will continue eating this way and putting it to friends and family. What I've found is everywhere tries to sell you low fat meat because we're all so terrified of fat giving us heart problems... fat is crucial and keeps us feeling full. If I believed that fat was bad and lived on 5% fat meat, I would probably be hungrier, sicker and making worse food choices to fill in the gaps between meals.
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There's a great book I read awhile back.......I forgot the author, but it's called Fat, Sugar, and Salt. There is no denying that this stuff tastes good to people but why, in the 80's, did this start to get out of hand?
Actually, it started back in the 1950's when fast food and sugary cereals came on the scene. But portions were my smaller back then, people were more active in general, and there was the nuclear family with Mom cooking the family meal. I see teenagers snacking on Seasoned Curly Fries at 10:00 AM, and toddlers with their Moms eating junk food out of Ziploc bags.
I see these things too. But, do you think our eating should be governed since we’ve collectively decided to ignore the serving size? Do you think our activities should be governed since we choose to not be active? Do you think we should govern nuclear families? What do we do with the situation we have now? Don’t you think a big part of that is personal accountability or do you think there should be consequences? When do we start governing ourselves?
Governed? Frankly, it is not in the interest of big business to have people control their eating. The "foods" they develop are designed to be hyper-palatable and usually lack much in terms of nutrition. Now, as obesity becomes a huge problem and cost, what is the solution proposed? Not eating whole home cooked foods, but a drug because as a growing number of obesity "experts" are saying there is no other way to deal with this as obesity is a disease. The problem is it is a disease of our own making, at least the making of the food industry that depends on people continuing to eat what they make so they can continue to make profits. The best thing I did for my health is to start eating food I cook from whole ingredients. For me that was going Ketovore, but any way of eating that makes things that are highly processed into rare treats rather than a major part of their overall diet will likely have the same positive results. Sadly, we live in a time where the foods that people have been eating for countless generations are being portrayed as dangerous while at the same time people, even dietitians, will recommend processed foods as part of a balanced diet.2 -
What do I do?
Try to take responsibility for myself (these days
), and for my limited influence on public policy and those around me.
I don't expect companies to do anything other than sell us what we vote with our dollars that we want to eat. (I have to admit, I don't even think that most "hyperpalatable" foods even taste very good. I got fat eating a lot of so-called healthy foods, just too much of them.)
I don't expect or want corporations to act like my mommy and daddy. Maybe we're collectively sleepwalking, but blaming capitalism, big companies, the government, blah blah blah, just seems like off-loading personal responsibility. No one forces me to put particular types/quantities of food in my mouth, chew, and swallow. No one forces me to sit on the couch for hours and watch TV or play electronic games.
Our individual actions, massed together, create the culture. Culture is influential, and meaningful. Humans IMO are wired to create and follow norms. Many people (perhaps subconsciously) want to be "normal", so fall into doing what others around us do. (That's true not just for eating and exercise, but for preferences in music, books, hobbies, career aspirations, and much more. As a generality, we choose to do what we see others around us doing, so that we'll fit in.)
In my youth, 1950s to early 1970s, cars didn't have cupholders, and it wasn't seen as perfectly normal to go about one's daily life with a bucket'o'sugary-drink all day in most any context. Life inherently involved more movement, including "sedentary" jobs. (I think the influence of the Internet and related computer technologies in the so-called "obesity crisis" is under-discussed, not that I think we should turn back the clock. Look at how those timelines correlate, though.) I don't think cooking simple meals is necessarily more time-consuming than hitting a drive-through; I think it just isn't the norm, and fewer people have the (simple) knowledge/skills.
It kind of makes me laugh to read what people say about the horrors of school lunches these days, frankly. When and where I was in school, a common lunch entree was gravy, literally: We got a big heap of instant mashed potatoes, topped with a big dipper-full of fatty gravy with a very limited amount of hamburger, pork or beef shreds, or something like that. There were usually multiple gravy-entree days most weeks. Beyond that, maybe mac'n'cheese, hot dogs, that sort of thing. Sides would be a bit of sad head lettuce with a few multicolored mini-marshmallows and vinaigrette dressing; a few limp canned green beans, green peas, or sweet corn; maybe a white Parker House roll with butter. Occasionally there would be sloppy Joes (low on meat), or something like that. On the good side, there was milk.
I'm not going to give advice here (on this thread) about how to lose weight or be more active. I do that darned near every day (at ridiculous length, usually) in the Community, for good or evil. I don't do it to save the world or billions of dollars - that's unrealistic IMO - but because being at a healthy weight (and active) has been a huge benefit to quality of life for me, and I want that for other people, too. Those who are willing to commit to it can achieve that, I think.3 -
@Leo_King84
You said we have to dig for information. Can you show me how deep it takes? I went to the first page of every single board of MFP, and every single medication recommendation for Ozempic and similar meds, they all say the same thing- a balanced diet and excercise is needed. Please, show us where we need to improve the education or where the education is completely skewed? Is it the lack of resources, education, or the lack of mentors living a healthy balanced routine?2 -
SafariGalNYC wrote: »A big impact could come from changing the menus of public school lunches and offering nutrition classes.
I taught in public and private schools in NYC for a while - I remember the huge difference in what was offered for lunch.
This was a part of my wake up call. Such a disparity in the quality of food.
The board of ed still has their menus online - they offer pizza, chicken nuggets, mozzarella sticks, fries. There are also salad offerings but these are paired with tubs of high sugar, hi cal dressings and as a compliment to the mains above.
When I taught in a very high end private high school (tuition >$50k per year) the cafeteria was like 4 star dining. They did not offer anything they did not deem “healthy”. Lunches were salmon, chicken breast, lean proteins , all shades of vegetables. No soda or fruit juice allowed. No added sugar, no fried foods.. no vending machines.
Is it economic? A tale of 2 cities?
We spend a fortune on public schools and the quickest way to make a change would be to change what’s offered in public school lunches. It’s just as easy to promote the cafeteria as a place of learning for the public schools as it is in the $$$ private schools.
I’m with you here. It would cost less than 4 Trillion to improve healthy habits in terms of a lunch menu. This is an excellent place to start. The unhealthy parental culture will be harder to educate/convince unfortunately. I’d love to hear options for that. I wish I had some productive ideas myself.1 -
@Leo_King84
You said we have to dig for information. Can you show me how deep it takes? I went to the first page of every single board of MFP, and every single medication recommendation for Ozempic and similar meds, they all say the same thing- a balanced diet and excercise is needed. Please, show us where we need to improve the education.
He thinks the widely available, scientific consensus is wrong and we need to seek the "truth" from pseudoscience peddlers on youtube.2 -
@rileysowner
I appreciate your feedback. What do you say when carnivore doesn’t work for the masses? What if they’re like me, most of their calories are from carbs, protein, and fat, in that order? I’m healthy (now), but would you tell me what I’m doing is going to cause health problems in the future? If not, why not?
More importantly, are you allowing a healthy balanced variety of food to be embraced by the masses? Or are you demonizing foods that could prevent a healthy balance of food?
This post isn’t about excuses or promoting a certain diet, because that’s impossible, so what balanced approach do you have?1 -
@AnnPT77 Your lunches were an eye opener for me, I had no idea it was like that then. With all that fresh produce!
Side story, I grew up in foster homes. When I was 16, I was told I was an adult because the government didn’t want to financially support me or a college education. This was 1998, not the seventies or eighties. So, it was kind of in the middle of the traditional world and the modern world.
It seems we went from having little options (or money) to every option, and every media expert telling us what to buy and why.
Now we have so much food noise and media noise, no one feels safe, confident, or committed, because there’s too much doubt, procrastination, and evangelism to a specific way of eating. Why someone feels their way of eating is right vs another seems culturally tone deaf to me. If there’s living proof others are healthy doing what you say is wrong, how can you continue rejecting it?
I feel it’s best to focus on 1. Are we creating a healthy balance? and 2. Are we taking responsibility for our choices?
If there’s a reason those scenarios are being highly interrupted, we should examine why. Telling me it’s because I eat bread, watch tv, or enter a grocery store, that’s not an excuse.
Thanks so much for your pov and experience. I don’t have the answers, but with 3 children, I’m ready for some real change and discussion.
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@rileysowner
I appreciate your feedback. What do you say when carnivore doesn’t work for the masses? What if they’re like me, most of their calories are from carbs, protein, and fat, in that order? I’m healthy (now), but would you tell me what I’m doing is going to cause health problems in the future? If not, why not?
More importantly, are you allowing a healthy balanced variety of food to be embraced by the masses? Or are you demonizing foods that could prevent a healthy balance of food?
This post isn’t about excuses or promoting a certain diet, because that’s impossible, so what balanced approach do you have?
I said I eat Ketovore. I didn't say everyone should. I said they should avoid most processed food and start cooking meals from whole ingredients. Don't put words into my mouth.1 -
rileysowner wrote: »@rileysowner
I appreciate your feedback. What do you say when carnivore doesn’t work for the masses? What if they’re like me, most of their calories are from carbs, protein, and fat, in that order? I’m healthy (now), but would you tell me what I’m doing is going to cause health problems in the future? If not, why not?
More importantly, are you allowing a healthy balanced variety of food to be embraced by the masses? Or are you demonizing foods that could prevent a healthy balance of food?
This post isn’t about excuses or promoting a certain diet, because that’s impossible, so what balanced approach do you have?
I said I eat Ketovore. I didn't say everyone should. I said they should avoid most processed food and start cooking meals from whole ingredients. Don't put words into my mouth.
I certainly didn’t try to put words in your mouth, just accidentally used the wrong term. I like the simple recommendation, cook real food! It should be that simple. We make it so hard
The terms I think are what trip people up. Like, who cares? If we stick to “eat real food” most of the time we are getting somewhere. The only thing missing is… in a calorie balance. 1 -
@AnnPT77 Your lunches were an eye opener for me, I had no idea it was like that then. With all that fresh produce!
(snip)
I'm not saying school lunches were like that everywhere. I have no idea. I grew up in a rural poverty area: Not the wealthiest school system, by far. Maybe somewhere they had nice meats and fresh veg/fruit? (Things like public school lunches tend to be more regulated and standardized now, at least within a given state, seems like.)
I feel like sometimes some people think there was some kind of idyllic food nirvana "there" "back then" (wherever and whenever "there" "back then" was). I don't think that's true, like maybe ever (at least for working class people)?
My parents were unusually old for my age. I was born when my mom was 43 and my dad was 38, so they were born in the nineteen-teens. I was an only child, and they'd only married recently, not when young. My dad's family were subsistence farmers before the depression (1920s) and perhaps a bit beyond. This was in the US, in Michigan.
For them, there was no school lunch, even when they moved on from the K-8 local school to the high school in town. My dad talked about taking lunch to school, and reaching a point some Winters where all they had to carry for lunch was cooked dried beans. They usually got one orange each (9 kids in the family) in their Christmas stocking and that was a big, exotic treat. In summer, yes, there would've been fresh produce, and they canned and dried lots. (No electricity. Ice house, maybe "ice box" in the house, cooled by ice blocks. Heat and cooking with wood they cut.) Winter variety of food, not so much. Other than the white flour and sugar, I supposed most of the food they did have was reasonably healthy by current standards, just not balanced.
They hunted squirrels and rabbits and such, plus fished, to supplement the meat they could raise and spare. (Mostly, the small number of cows were mainly for milk, the chickens and ducks mainly for eggs, maybe a pig or few each year for meat, and the other animals got eaten when they stopped producing milk/eggs.) Meat had to be smoked or canned to preserve. They sold some farm produce to buy flour and sugar and such, plus other needful things they couldn't produce. The kids worked out for other farms; my dad was picking cucumbers for other farmers at age 5 when he was still to short to do lots of other kinds of work. What he earned went to the family finances, too.
All of that was pretty common, perfectly normal. No, I don't think it was "I walked 20 miles to school uphill both ways". I think it was truth.
Sometimes the nutrition would've been good, sometimes not that wonderful. They burned a astounding number of calories with all the work, I'm sure. No food nirvana then, either. Obesity not common, though not zero. I remember reading in the "doctor book" they used that a suggested treatment for being obese was rolling around on your stomach.
Every place and era tends to have its nutritional challenges for non-rich people, and maybe some different ones for rich people (the over-sufficiency issue similar to what we have today). Seems that a common modern developed-world challenge is a surfeit of easily available calories, large-scale food waste, lives so physical-effort limited that we don't burn many calories or stay active through daily life, and lots of foods available that push our buttons but lack nutrition . . . that's the current challenge for those of us lucky enough not to be literally starving or structurally malnourished because suitable food is literally unavailable (as is a common case in some parts of the world).
Rumor has it that in some recent cases where there've been attempts to serve kids high-nutrition school lunches, they won't eat them. For sure, someone in my friend-feed here a while back had a job at an outfit that included a food pantry distribution. She said that when they provided dried peas/beans as part of a distribution, you could go outside after and find many of the bags of those in the trash, because people either didn't know how to deal with them, or didn't like them or something like that.
I'm not really sure how to think about the current developed-world situation in a larger historical and global context. A lot of history (and localities), the challenge was calorie or nutritional insufficiency imposed by outside circumstances. Now, it seems like - for those of us lucky (?) enough - it's self-selected excess.
Maybe it's a Walt Kelly/Pogo "We have met the enemy and he is us" situation.2 -
@Leo_King84
You said we have to dig for information. Can you show me how deep it takes? I went to the first page of every single board of MFP, and every single medication recommendation for Ozempic and similar meds, they all say the same thing- a balanced diet and excercise is needed. Please, show us where we need to improve the education or where the education is completely skewed? Is it the lack of resources, education, or the lack of mentors living a healthy balanced routine?
First results on Google.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8541481/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9794145/
Found this with a little digging. Not quite from Youtubers 🤣🤣🤣
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SafariGalNYC wrote: »A big impact could come from changing the menus of public school lunches and offering nutrition classes.
I taught in public and private schools in NYC for a while - I remember the huge difference in what was offered for lunch.
This was a part of my wake up call. Such a disparity in the quality of food.
The board of ed still has their menus online - they offer pizza, chicken nuggets, mozzarella sticks, fries. There are also salad offerings but these are paired with tubs of high sugar, hi cal dressings and as a compliment to the mains above.
When I taught in a very high end private high school (tuition >$50k per year) the cafeteria was like 4 star dining. They did not offer anything they did not deem “healthy”. Lunches were salmon, chicken breast, lean proteins , all shades of vegetables. No soda or fruit juice allowed. No added sugar, no fried foods.. no vending machines.
Is it economic? A tale of 2 cities?
We spend a fortune on public schools and the quickest way to make a change would be to change what’s offered in public school lunches. It’s just as easy to promote the cafeteria as a place of learning for the public schools as it is in the $$$ private schools.
Years ago when my kid was in elementary school we were on the free lunch program.
Which meant we were also entitled to the free breakfast program.
The teachers pestered me constantly about making sure my kid was on time for the free breakfast, and I politely but firmly refused. I saw two things happening there.
1) The breakfasts were disgusting. Sunny Delight (which is not orange juice!) Pop Tarts, and donuts. Not even milk and cereal. Forget about a healthy bowl of oatmeal!
And the kids only had about 15 minutes total to wolf it down.
A lifetime of bad habits, brought to you by the American Public School System.
2) Unlike the lunches, everyone was able to see who got the free breakfast. Marking those kids as an obvious underclass. Which absolutely did skew the perception of others. Especially other parents. Which, in a small town, has an impact beyond just the school system.
In second grade my kid - completely on their own - decided to become a vegetarian. Keep in mind we were still on the free lunch program.
Our school at the time was unified. Three buildings on one campus. The same staff providing all breakfasts and lunches for Head Start through High School.
And I informed the cafeteria staff that my kid would need vegetarian meals. I had a lot of discussions with them about this. And was assured that my kid would be provided a proper lunch.
But my kid was coming home very hungry every day.
Turns out the cafeteria staff was refusing to accommodate the vegetarian kid. Like, just flat refusing. My kid would be served milk and a slice of bread. Just that. Every day. For months
I was livid. But I was nice to their faces. I tried to reason with them. I asked if there were other vegetarian students and was told only at the high school. “There are no vegetarian students in the elementary school”
I pointed out that there was at least one…. That went over pretty badly. 🤣
I asked why they were able to feed the vegetarian high school kids but not provide for the vegetarian grade school students and I even offered to provide veggie burger patties for them to feed my kid on days when they had hamburgers. The cafeteria people just flat refused to provide the legally mandated meals my kid was entitled to.
I resorted to packing my kid a cold lunch, even though it was another strain on our budget.
Fast forward a couple years and the local soda bottling plant donated a scoreboard to the high school. Which caused a bit of an uproar because, despite what I just described, we’re a relatively prosperous area and there’s a lot of people who are the sort who try to limit their kid’s exposure to advertising, and their sugar consumption, etc. Typical Hippie Crunchy Granola middle class stuff.
Because it was the soda bottling plant that donated the sign, some parents had a lot of questions. And many learned for the first time that there are soda machines at the high school. Which the cafeteria people were not concerned with because “the biggest seller is water!” (I pointed out that there’s free water in the filtered fountain 30 feet away but… )
Anyway. At this extremely energized school board meeting the head cafeteria staff said “I don’t care. If we got Mars Bars for free, we would serve them to these kids every day!”
I thought that was one heckuva admission….
Anyway. That’s a lot of words for “We have a lot of work to do to get the US on to a healthy path”
5 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »SafariGalNYC wrote: »A big impact could come from changing the menus of public school lunches and offering nutrition classes.
I taught in public and private schools in NYC for a while - I remember the huge difference in what was offered for lunch.
This was a part of my wake up call. Such a disparity in the quality of food.
The board of ed still has their menus online - they offer pizza, chicken nuggets, mozzarella sticks, fries. There are also salad offerings but these are paired with tubs of high sugar, hi cal dressings and as a compliment to the mains above.
When I taught in a very high end private high school (tuition >$50k per year) the cafeteria was like 4 star dining. They did not offer anything they did not deem “healthy”. Lunches were salmon, chicken breast, lean proteins , all shades of vegetables. No soda or fruit juice allowed. No added sugar, no fried foods.. no vending machines.
Is it economic? A tale of 2 cities?
We spend a fortune on public schools and the quickest way to make a change would be to change what’s offered in public school lunches. It’s just as easy to promote the cafeteria as a place of learning for the public schools as it is in the $$$ private schools.
Years ago when my kid was in elementary school we were on the free lunch program.
Which meant we were also entitled to the free breakfast program.
The teachers pestered me constantly about making sure my kid was on time for the free breakfast, and I politely but firmly refused. I saw two things happening there.
1) The breakfasts were disgusting. Sunny Delight (which is not orange juice!) Pop Tarts, and donuts. Not even milk and cereal. Forget about a healthy bowl of oatmeal!
And the kids only had about 15 minutes total to wolf it down.
A lifetime of bad habits, brought to you by the American Public School System.
2) Unlike the lunches, everyone was able to see who got the free breakfast. Marking those kids as an obvious underclass. Which absolutely did skew the perception of others. Especially other parents. Which, in a small town, has an impact beyond just the school system.
In second grade my kid - completely on their own - decided to become a vegetarian. Keep in mind we were still on the free lunch program.
Our school at the time was unified. Three buildings on one campus. The same staff providing all breakfasts and lunches for Head Start through High School.
And I informed the cafeteria staff that my kid would need vegetarian meals. I had a lot of discussions with them about this. And was assured that my kid would be provided a proper lunch.
But my kid was coming home very hungry every day.
Turns out the cafeteria staff was refusing to accommodate the vegetarian kid. Like, just flat refusing. My kid would be served milk and a slice of bread. Just that. Every day. For months
I was livid. But I was nice to their faces. I tried to reason with them. I asked if there were other vegetarian students and was told only at the high school. “There are no vegetarian students in the elementary school”
I pointed out that there was at least one…. That went over pretty badly. 🤣
I asked why they were able to feed the vegetarian high school kids but not provide for the vegetarian grade school students and I even offered to provide veggie burger patties for them to feed my kid on days when they had hamburgers. The cafeteria people just flat refused to provide the legally mandated meals my kid was entitled to.
I resorted to packing my kid a cold lunch, even though it was another strain on our budget.
Fast forward a couple years and the local soda bottling plant donated a scoreboard to the high school. Which caused a bit of an uproar because, despite what I just described, we’re a relatively prosperous area and there’s a lot of people who are the sort who try to limit their kid’s exposure to advertising, and their sugar consumption, etc. Typical Hippie Crunchy Granola middle class stuff.
Because it was the soda bottling plant that donated the sign, some parents had a lot of questions. And many learned for the first time that there are soda machines at the high school. Which the cafeteria people were not concerned with because “the biggest seller is water!” (I pointed out that there’s free water in the filtered fountain 30 feet away but… )
Anyway. At this extremely energized school board meeting the head cafeteria staff said “I don’t care. If we got Mars Bars for free, we would serve them to these kids every day!”
I thought that was one heckuva admission….
Anyway. That’s a lot of words for “We have a lot of work to do to get the US on to a healthy path”
I'm not sure where you live, but in the school districts I work in, they only accommodate medically required diets, not dietary preferences. We are up front with parents about this and they have to go to the doctor and get a medical statement that their child requires a specific diet for an allergy or whatever medical condition. Outside of that, parents have to send a lynch in with the child if they don't want them to eat a certain food. And yes, I've had to tell vegetarian parents this. Unfortunately, it's just not plausible to accommodate all dietary preferences in a school system.1 -
sollyn23l2 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »SafariGalNYC wrote: »A big impact could come from changing the menus of public school lunches and offering nutrition classes.
I taught in public and private schools in NYC for a while - I remember the huge difference in what was offered for lunch.
This was a part of my wake up call. Such a disparity in the quality of food.
The board of ed still has their menus online - they offer pizza, chicken nuggets, mozzarella sticks, fries. There are also salad offerings but these are paired with tubs of high sugar, hi cal dressings and as a compliment to the mains above.
When I taught in a very high end private high school (tuition >$50k per year) the cafeteria was like 4 star dining. They did not offer anything they did not deem “healthy”. Lunches were salmon, chicken breast, lean proteins , all shades of vegetables. No soda or fruit juice allowed. No added sugar, no fried foods.. no vending machines.
Is it economic? A tale of 2 cities?
We spend a fortune on public schools and the quickest way to make a change would be to change what’s offered in public school lunches. It’s just as easy to promote the cafeteria as a place of learning for the public schools as it is in the $$$ private schools.
Years ago when my kid was in elementary school we were on the free lunch program.
Which meant we were also entitled to the free breakfast program.
The teachers pestered me constantly about making sure my kid was on time for the free breakfast, and I politely but firmly refused. I saw two things happening there.
1) The breakfasts were disgusting. Sunny Delight (which is not orange juice!) Pop Tarts, and donuts. Not even milk and cereal. Forget about a healthy bowl of oatmeal!
And the kids only had about 15 minutes total to wolf it down.
A lifetime of bad habits, brought to you by the American Public School System.
2) Unlike the lunches, everyone was able to see who got the free breakfast. Marking those kids as an obvious underclass. Which absolutely did skew the perception of others. Especially other parents. Which, in a small town, has an impact beyond just the school system.
In second grade my kid - completely on their own - decided to become a vegetarian. Keep in mind we were still on the free lunch program.
Our school at the time was unified. Three buildings on one campus. The same staff providing all breakfasts and lunches for Head Start through High School.
And I informed the cafeteria staff that my kid would need vegetarian meals. I had a lot of discussions with them about this. And was assured that my kid would be provided a proper lunch.
But my kid was coming home very hungry every day.
Turns out the cafeteria staff was refusing to accommodate the vegetarian kid. Like, just flat refusing. My kid would be served milk and a slice of bread. Just that. Every day. For months
I was livid. But I was nice to their faces. I tried to reason with them. I asked if there were other vegetarian students and was told only at the high school. “There are no vegetarian students in the elementary school”
I pointed out that there was at least one…. That went over pretty badly. 🤣
I asked why they were able to feed the vegetarian high school kids but not provide for the vegetarian grade school students and I even offered to provide veggie burger patties for them to feed my kid on days when they had hamburgers. The cafeteria people just flat refused to provide the legally mandated meals my kid was entitled to.
I resorted to packing my kid a cold lunch, even though it was another strain on our budget.
Fast forward a couple years and the local soda bottling plant donated a scoreboard to the high school. Which caused a bit of an uproar because, despite what I just described, we’re a relatively prosperous area and there’s a lot of people who are the sort who try to limit their kid’s exposure to advertising, and their sugar consumption, etc. Typical Hippie Crunchy Granola middle class stuff.
Because it was the soda bottling plant that donated the sign, some parents had a lot of questions. And many learned for the first time that there are soda machines at the high school. Which the cafeteria people were not concerned with because “the biggest seller is water!” (I pointed out that there’s free water in the filtered fountain 30 feet away but… )
Anyway. At this extremely energized school board meeting the head cafeteria staff said “I don’t care. If we got Mars Bars for free, we would serve them to these kids every day!”
I thought that was one heckuva admission….
Anyway. That’s a lot of words for “We have a lot of work to do to get the US on to a healthy path”
I'm not sure where you live, but in the school districts I work in, they only accommodate medically required diets, not dietary preferences. We are up front with parents about this and they have to go to the doctor and get a medical statement that their child requires a specific diet for an allergy or whatever medical condition. Outside of that, parents have to send a lynch in with the child if they don't want them to eat a certain food. And yes, I've had to tell vegetarian parents this. Unfortunately, it's just not plausible to accommodate all dietary preferences in a school system.
1) They told me that they would accommodate a vegetarian diet
And then they just fed my kid a single slice of bread and a carton of milk.
2) They were feeding the vegetarian high school students.
4 -
I am so anticonsumerism that it keeps me fairly slim, although I still need to lose a few pounds..🤣
I read a lot of voluntary simplicity books back in the 90s and have tried *tried*to live on the average global income of about 12-15,000 per year and eat my fair share of calories.I was really inspired by the blog,extreme early retirement ,when I was in my 20s.
I think, for most of the world, they're not going to live that way unless/until they have to.2
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