bread/pasta carbs and fruit/veggie carbs??
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there's 3 type of carbs : Simple,Complex and Fiber (part of complex but mostly separated to understand it better).
Simple is the bad one... honey, sugar, molasses or corn syrup..Some very very high level sugar fruits can be part of it too.
Complex is the so so one... corn, bread, cereal, pasta and rice...
Fiber is the best one ... our body can't completely digest fiber, so it can't be broken down into sugars... ex: Whole grains and many low sugar fruits and vegetables.
Wrong and scary on so many levels. Our bodies need and require sugar. One word... gluconeogenisis. Bottom line is, unless there is a medical reason to restrict certain foods, carbs from one source vs another is irrelevant in fat loss.
I'm T2D and agree completely with sexxy ab guy. Fiber is another thing that we'll likely not agree on. Since I have my meter to test what happens, if I eat carbs with fiber, the only thing that happens is the spike in glucose levels come later but they still appear.
Don't know why this blanket statement has spread like wildfire, but for the insulin disordered individual, carbs are not magically erased by fiber.
Also, because it depends what is actually broken in the system, fiber + carbs may work for you as an individual, but by far, does not work for everyone :blushing:0 -
For me, I just asked my doctor about it last week. ( I was always over on carbs) Almost all from fruits & Veggies.So I notice that when I watch my carbs, I tend to lose weight. I noticed though that fruit and veggies, especially carrots, have a lot of carbs.
Should I be limiting those carbs as well or just the heavy carbs like breads and pastas and potatoes?
He said not to worry as much about those, they are needed and healthy Carbs. I go with what he says. I still count them, I just don't worry about being over in my diary if I look at it and it is mostly them.
This can be a problem.
Rather than asking your doctor, I would look into what I know about my family history BEFORE I asked if getting too much carbs from fruit & veggies would be a problem.
I wasn't over on my sugar from fruits & veggies when I was diagnosed with T2D 4 months ago. The doctors rolled their eyes at me when I explained that I only consumed 24 g of sugar per day for the 3 months prior & had the MFP diary to prove it :huh:
When I told them that 5 of my 6 aunties & uncles, both maternal & paternal pairs of grandparents had T2D, they were not the LEAST bit surprised that 17 yrs ago, when I was pregnant with my son, I had been tested for gestational diabetes but because the criteria was lower back then, was told it was nothing to worry about.
Each one of those individual reasons listed above is enough to increase one's risk & put them firmly in the group to watch out for markers as they reach into as early as their 30's, however, with my history, it was absolutely unavoidable.
My kids are 24 and 17 yrs old. Both have been speached about how to watch out for the possible breakdown so that at least THEY won't be blind sided as I was :grumble:
Shame was what kept all of my aunties & uncles from admitting and talking to each other about their diabetes. Only upon finding out about my diagnosis & questioning everyone, did they start talking about it.
Your risk should be assessed through family history as whether or not this may be a problem for you is largely genetic.0 -
there's 3 type of carbs : Simple,Complex and Fiber (part of complex but mostly separated to understand it better).
Simple is the bad one... honey, sugar, molasses or corn syrup..Some very very high level sugar fruits can be part of it too.
Complex is the so so one... corn, bread, cereal, pasta and rice...
Fiber is the best one ... our body can't completely digest fiber, so it can't be broken down into sugars... ex: Whole grains and many low sugar fruits and vegetables.
Well put!
...if you're interested in misinformation.0 -
Wow.
Stop arguing everyone!
It was just a simple question.
No need to start World War Three over it.0 -
there's 3 type of carbs : Simple,Complex and Fiber (part of complex but mostly separated to understand it better).
Simple is the bad one... honey, sugar, molasses or corn syrup..Some very very high level sugar fruits can be part of it too.
Complex is the so so one... corn, bread, cereal, pasta and rice...
Fiber is the best one ... our body can't completely digest fiber, so it can't be broken down into sugars... ex: Whole grains and many low sugar fruits and vegetables.
Wrong and scary on so many levels. Our bodies need and require sugar. One word... gluconeogenisis. Bottom line is, unless there is a medical reason to restrict certain foods, carbs from one source vs another is irrelevant in fat loss.
I'm T2D and agree completely with sexxy ab guy. Fiber is another thing that we'll likely not agree on. Since I have my meter to test what happens, if I eat carbs with fiber, the only thing that happens is the spike in glucose levels come later but they still appear.
Don't know why this blanket statement has spread like wildfire, but for the insulin disordered individual, carbs are not magically erased by fiber.
Also, because it depends what is actually broken in the system, fiber + carbs may work for you as an individual, but by far, does not work for everyone :blushing:
Actually, for you to agree with him, you'd have to measure the effect on your blood sugar of a glucose-only dose (i.e. 50g glucose) versus a glucose/fiber dose (25g + 25g). The spike on the second is likely lower than the first -- not "nothing", but not the 50g either.0 -
Fat loss is calories in vs calories out. The reason you notice a decrease in weight when you go low carb is either because a) avoiding or restricting a macronutrient food group inherently lowers your calories. You are consuming less, therefore losing weight. b) carbs increase glycogen stores. the weight you notice you lost is most likely water weight from depleted stores, not actual fat loss.
c) a combination of the two.
Unless you have a medical reason to restrict food choices, there is no need to avoid bread carbs or "heavy" carbs as you put it. Carbs are processed the same by your body. Caloric deficit reigns supreme when it comes to fat loss. Restricting or avoiding food groups provides no added benefit in promoting weight loss, again, assuming you aren't diabetic or have a valid medical reason to restrict certain foods.
Couldn't have said it better.0 -
Simple carbs, like in processed foods are different from complex carbs, like in veggies. Simple carbs release energy instantly -- that is why it is so enjoyable to eat them. The problem is, all that energy is released and in not used up fast, turns to fat. And, your body releases insulin and other hormones to bring blood sugar down. So your sugar levels will come down just as fast, you won't like that feeling, and you natural response will be that soon you will want to reach for more simple carbs again. It can be a cycle for some people.
Complex carbs release energy slower, so you don't have those crashes. Most whole foods have a combination of both carbs.
Also, body resists burning fat stores. You have to reach certain threshold before that process activates. It would rather you eat something, so you will get a hunger signal.
It will first go for easiest energy - glucose in your blood steam. So slow release is more beneficial.
Also some methods in which calories are calculated (oxygen consumed in burning for example) don't account for the fiber you can't process and will poop out. So in reality you process even less calories from veggies than listed. Not so with bread or pasta. You get all of them, and very efficiently.
So this "a calorie is a calorie" mantra is a very oversimplified statement, to the point of being misleading.
What is oversimplified is the belief that lack of control plays no part in weight gain. What happens if one doesn't "reach for more simple carbs" and remains in a caloric deficit? Will they magically gain weight because they ate a simple carb? And you are aware that ingesting protein causes insulin to be released as well?
Willpower lasts a while. You can't live on just willpower forever. That is what I see that in people's diaries. People who have cereal in the morning, pasta for lunch, and sandwich for dinner, and crackers for snacks tend not to do well long term.
And this general attitude of "screw nutrition, it is all about calories" attitude is harmful.
I enjoy simple carbs as much as anyone (especially alcohol), but I know if I have a croissant in the morning, I have to eat more nutritious foods for lunch and dinner.
Yes, everything we consume raises our blood sugar, but in very different ways. That is why diabetics are taught to avoid certain foods, while encouraged to eat others.0 -
Simple carbs, like in processed foods are different from complex carbs, like in veggies. Simple carbs release energy instantly -- that is why it is so enjoyable to eat them. The problem is, all that energy is released and in not used up fast, turns to fat. And, your body releases insulin and other hormones to bring blood sugar down. So your sugar levels will come down just as fast, you won't like that feeling, and you natural response will be that soon you will want to reach for more simple carbs again. It can be a cycle for some people.
Complex carbs release energy slower, so you don't have those crashes. Most whole foods have a combination of both carbs.
Also, body resists burning fat stores. You have to reach certain threshold before that process activates. It would rather you eat something, so you will get a hunger signal.
It will first go for easiest energy - glucose in your blood steam. So slow release is more beneficial.
Also some methods in which calories are calculated (oxygen consumed in burning for example) don't account for the fiber you can't process and will poop out. So in reality you process even less calories from veggies than listed. Not so with bread or pasta. You get all of them, and very efficiently.
So this "a calorie is a calorie" mantra is a very oversimplified statement, to the point of being misleading.
What is oversimplified is the belief that lack of control plays no part in weight gain. What happens if one doesn't "reach for more simple carbs" and remains in a caloric deficit? Will they magically gain weight because they ate a simple carb? And you are aware that ingesting protein causes insulin to be released as well?
Willpower lasts a while. You can't live on just willpower forever. That is what I see that in people's diaries. People who have cereal in the morning, pasta for lunch, and sandwich for dinner, and crackers for snacks tend not to do well long term.
And this general attitude of "screw nutrition, it is all about calories" attitude is harmful.
I enjoy simple carbs as much as anyone (especially alcohol), but I know if I have a croissant in the morning, I have to eat more nutritious foods for lunch and dinner.
Yes, everything we consume raises our blood sugar, but in very different ways. That is why diabetics are taught to avoid certain foods, while encouraged to eat others.
Most people take care to meet their macros. My lunch for example... I could get a 12" roasted chicken sub but instead I double up on meat and get a 6" to improve the macros so that it's more in line with my goals for the day. It's not low carb, but it's not ALL carb either. Balance.0 -
Totally non-scientific, but I find bread/pasta carbs are too calorie-dense for the amount of satisfaction/fullness I get from them. So if I have a day where I eat lots of starchy carbs I end up going over or feeling hungrier than if I eat more fruit/veg carbs and protein.
If I'm not tracking and eating more starchy carbs, I'm pretty sure I unwittingly go over my calories because I don't feel as full/satisfied.
And again, not scientific, but I would suspect that lower carb diets work because they focus on getting protein and good fats, which make you feel fuller so you are less likely to eat over your calories?0 -
Whoah. Did I just kill this thread with common sense? Bow chick-a wow-wow!0
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Just curious did u loose all your weight on MFP? If so Congrats that is awesome!0
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Very unscientific and very much wrong. Sugar is not at all bad. The human body relies on sugar for every single thing it does. Your brain alone requires 125 grams of sugar a day. That said, your body will basically convert everything you eat into sugar (glucose) to support its needs.I'm by no means an expert on this, but basically the main difference is that most processed food (e.g. white bread, pasta, etc) contains simple carbs which are basically sugar, and fruit/veg (and whole grain products) contain carbs which are fibre. See the overview here:
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrition/ss/nutritionlabels_5.htm
On food labels you can sometimes see the details
Carbohydrates: x grams
of which Sugars: y grams
of which Fibre: z grams
In short - and probably overly simplified and completely unscientific - sugar = bad (although it's useful when you exercise a lot and need an energy boost, e.g. loads of exercise snack bars are basically pure glucose), fibre = good (makes you feel full, helps your digestion).
Having said that, some fruit contain a lot of (naturally occurring) sugar (e.g. pineapple) and you probably shouldn't 'overdose' on them either. And as you've noticed, carrots have quite a bit of sugar as well. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't eat them, just try and alternate with different types of fruit and veg to get a nice balance.
So, yeah, go and get your "5 a day" - and more - and don't worry too much about the carbs in them.
Fuelled on glycogen alone the brain requires 125g but the Brian run very optimally on a mixture of glycogen, ketones (also lactose when available) and at this point only requires in the region of 30 - 40 grams - all of which the body can produce itself.0 -
No. The brain using ketones is an emergency anti-starvation survival response. It's not "optimal" at all. Glucose is the brain's preferred, optimal fuel source.
Very unscientific and very much wrong. Sugar is not at all bad. The human body relies on sugar for every single thing it does. Your brain alone requires 125 grams of sugar a day. That said, your body will basically convert everything you eat into sugar (glucose) to support its needs.I'm by no means an expert on this, but basically the main difference is that most processed food (e.g. white bread, pasta, etc) contains simple carbs which are basically sugar, and fruit/veg (and whole grain products) contain carbs which are fibre. See the overview here:
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrition/ss/nutritionlabels_5.htm
On food labels you can sometimes see the details
Carbohydrates: x grams
of which Sugars: y grams
of which Fibre: z grams
In short - and probably overly simplified and completely unscientific - sugar = bad (although it's useful when you exercise a lot and need an energy boost, e.g. loads of exercise snack bars are basically pure glucose), fibre = good (makes you feel full, helps your digestion).
Having said that, some fruit contain a lot of (naturally occurring) sugar (e.g. pineapple) and you probably shouldn't 'overdose' on them either. And as you've noticed, carrots have quite a bit of sugar as well. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't eat them, just try and alternate with different types of fruit and veg to get a nice balance.
So, yeah, go and get your "5 a day" - and more - and don't worry too much about the carbs in them.
Fuelled on glycogen alone the brain requires 125g but the Brian run very optimally on a mixture of glycogen, ketones (also lactose when available) and at this point only requires in the region of 30 - 40 grams - all of which the body can produce itself.0 -
No. The brain using ketones is an emergency anti-starvation survival response. It's not "optimal" at all. Glucose is the brain's preferred, optimal fuel source.
Very unscientific and very much wrong. Sugar is not at all bad. The human body relies on sugar for every single thing it does. Your brain alone requires 125 grams of sugar a day. That said, your body will basically convert everything you eat into sugar (glucose) to support its needs.I'm by no means an expert on this, but basically the main difference is that most processed food (e.g. white bread, pasta, etc) contains simple carbs which are basically sugar, and fruit/veg (and whole grain products) contain carbs which are fibre. See the overview here:
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrition/ss/nutritionlabels_5.htm
On food labels you can sometimes see the details
Carbohydrates: x grams
of which Sugars: y grams
of which Fibre: z grams
In short - and probably overly simplified and completely unscientific - sugar = bad (although it's useful when you exercise a lot and need an energy boost, e.g. loads of exercise snack bars are basically pure glucose), fibre = good (makes you feel full, helps your digestion).
Having said that, some fruit contain a lot of (naturally occurring) sugar (e.g. pineapple) and you probably shouldn't 'overdose' on them either. And as you've noticed, carrots have quite a bit of sugar as well. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't eat them, just try and alternate with different types of fruit and veg to get a nice balance.
So, yeah, go and get your "5 a day" - and more - and don't worry too much about the carbs in them.
Fuelled on glycogen alone the brain requires 125g but the Brian run very optimally on a mixture of glycogen, ketones (also lactose when available) and at this point only requires in the region of 30 - 40 grams - all of which the body can produce itself.
Do you have any studies to support this theory?0 -
No. The brain using ketones is an emergency anti-starvation survival response. It's not "optimal" at all. Glucose is the brain's preferred, optimal fuel source.
Very unscientific and very much wrong. Sugar is not at all bad. The human body relies on sugar for every single thing it does. Your brain alone requires 125 grams of sugar a day. That said, your body will basically convert everything you eat into sugar (glucose) to support its needs.I'm by no means an expert on this, but basically the main difference is that most processed food (e.g. white bread, pasta, etc) contains simple carbs which are basically sugar, and fruit/veg (and whole grain products) contain carbs which are fibre. See the overview here:
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrition/ss/nutritionlabels_5.htm
On food labels you can sometimes see the details
Carbohydrates: x grams
of which Sugars: y grams
of which Fibre: z grams
In short - and probably overly simplified and completely unscientific - sugar = bad (although it's useful when you exercise a lot and need an energy boost, e.g. loads of exercise snack bars are basically pure glucose), fibre = good (makes you feel full, helps your digestion).
Having said that, some fruit contain a lot of (naturally occurring) sugar (e.g. pineapple) and you probably shouldn't 'overdose' on them either. And as you've noticed, carrots have quite a bit of sugar as well. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't eat them, just try and alternate with different types of fruit and veg to get a nice balance.
So, yeah, go and get your "5 a day" - and more - and don't worry too much about the carbs in them.
Fuelled on glycogen alone the brain requires 125g but the Brian run very optimally on a mixture of glycogen, ketones (also lactose when available) and at this point only requires in the region of 30 - 40 grams - all of which the body can produce itself.
Do you have any studies to support this theory?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19227486
First sentence...
"The brain is dependent on glucose as a primary energy substrate, but is capable of utilizing ketones such as beta-hydroxybutyrate (beta HB) and acetoacetate (AcAc), as occurs with fasting, prolonged starvation or chronic feeding of a high fat/low carbohydrate diet (ketogenic diet)."
Glucose is primary...
It is so primary that the body will make it's own if you don't eat it...0 -
I eat all carbs and have had no problem losing weight.0
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http://www.simplyshredded.com/the-science-of-nutrition-is-a-carb-a-carb.html
This is an interesting read.
Nice link!0 -
No. The brain using ketones is an emergency anti-starvation survival response. It's not "optimal" at all. Glucose is the brain's preferred, optimal fuel source.
Very unscientific and very much wrong. Sugar is not at all bad. The human body relies on sugar for every single thing it does. Your brain alone requires 125 grams of sugar a day. That said, your body will basically convert everything you eat into sugar (glucose) to support its needs.I'm by no means an expert on this, but basically the main difference is that most processed food (e.g. white bread, pasta, etc) contains simple carbs which are basically sugar, and fruit/veg (and whole grain products) contain carbs which are fibre. See the overview here:
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrition/ss/nutritionlabels_5.htm
On food labels you can sometimes see the details
Carbohydrates: x grams
of which Sugars: y grams
of which Fibre: z grams
In short - and probably overly simplified and completely unscientific - sugar = bad (although it's useful when you exercise a lot and need an energy boost, e.g. loads of exercise snack bars are basically pure glucose), fibre = good (makes you feel full, helps your digestion).
Having said that, some fruit contain a lot of (naturally occurring) sugar (e.g. pineapple) and you probably shouldn't 'overdose' on them either. And as you've noticed, carrots have quite a bit of sugar as well. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't eat them, just try and alternate with different types of fruit and veg to get a nice balance.
So, yeah, go and get your "5 a day" - and more - and don't worry too much about the carbs in them.
Fuelled on glycogen alone the brain requires 125g but the Brian run very optimally on a mixture of glycogen, ketones (also lactose when available) and at this point only requires in the region of 30 - 40 grams - all of which the body can produce itself.
Do you have any studies to support this theory?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19227486
First sentence...
"The brain is dependent on glucose as a primary energy substrate, but is capable of utilizing ketones such as beta-hydroxybutyrate (beta HB) and acetoacetate (AcAc), as occurs with fasting, prolonged starvation or chronic feeding of a high fat/low carbohydrate diet (ketogenic diet)."
Glucose is primary...
It is so primary that the body will make it's own if you don't eat it...
I'm not arguing against glucose as a primary fuel for the brain - I'm saying that it can run just as optimally on a glucose, ketone mix - as your study supports.
Also tiger world is keen to try and suggest that the Brain only does this in starvation mode which is not the case - it will run very efficiently when either in a fasted state or on a LCHF diet.
Cheers for posting the study.
The body makes it's own ketones too! With a much larger resource to pull from.0 -
I'm not arguing against glucose as a primary fuel for the brain - I'm saying that it can run just as optimally on a glucose, ketone mix - as your study supports.
I would argue that the body is meant to be flexible and run on both. Glucose when it's available and ketones when it is not...0 -
NEVER limit fruits and vegetables!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EVER!!!!!!Should I be limiting those carbs as well0
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