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The myth of age and weightloss?
trixsterjl31
Posts: 83 Member
I saw a post about being older and it being harder to lose weight and easier to gain. When you look it up it says a 20 year old man burns 10 - 15 percent more than a 50 year old all else being the same. My question... is all else the same:
When i was a kid I played games and sports all day.
When i was a teen I played games and sports some times but still rode a bike everywhere.
When i was late teen I got a car and most walking stopped and bike riding became for fun.
When I was 20 plus I exercised to try and stay in shape. Navy, but had I not been Navy the experience would have varied based on job or what I did. I very well could have go to college partied and did other stuff that burned less calories and then moved on to an office job that demanded no activity.
When i was 30 plus I pretty much started exercising in bursts when I noticed I was getting fat and then stopped and yoyo weighted. Work was mildly demanding but didn't keep up with calories from beer and pizza.
40 plus. Pretty much the same as 30 with ups and down in weight, downs forced by effort and habits completely driving gain.
50 plus. Same as 30 plus.
Here is what i'm thinking. Does a 50 year old that cycles for fun and does 10 k runs really have a lot harder time than a 20 year old that does the same losing weight? If they both do mild activity and eat sensibly every day with mild activity instead of the vigorous training will either likely be over weight. If both eat fast food and drink beer at the same by weight/height do you really think that a 20 year old gains weight 15 percent slower than a 50 year old or is it more likely other stuff they do because they are 20 that burns more calories and they dont wake up in traction after a pick up game of basketball?
Now to wonder if anyone will even read all that. lol.
When i was a kid I played games and sports all day.
When i was a teen I played games and sports some times but still rode a bike everywhere.
When i was late teen I got a car and most walking stopped and bike riding became for fun.
When I was 20 plus I exercised to try and stay in shape. Navy, but had I not been Navy the experience would have varied based on job or what I did. I very well could have go to college partied and did other stuff that burned less calories and then moved on to an office job that demanded no activity.
When i was 30 plus I pretty much started exercising in bursts when I noticed I was getting fat and then stopped and yoyo weighted. Work was mildly demanding but didn't keep up with calories from beer and pizza.
40 plus. Pretty much the same as 30 with ups and down in weight, downs forced by effort and habits completely driving gain.
50 plus. Same as 30 plus.
Here is what i'm thinking. Does a 50 year old that cycles for fun and does 10 k runs really have a lot harder time than a 20 year old that does the same losing weight? If they both do mild activity and eat sensibly every day with mild activity instead of the vigorous training will either likely be over weight. If both eat fast food and drink beer at the same by weight/height do you really think that a 20 year old gains weight 15 percent slower than a 50 year old or is it more likely other stuff they do because they are 20 that burns more calories and they dont wake up in traction after a pick up game of basketball?
Now to wonder if anyone will even read all that. lol.
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Replies
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In my opinion, calories in & calories out is the main factor with weight loss. However, our bodies are not that simple. There's a lot of other factors, as well, including hormonal fluctuations and muscle loss due to aging..for most of us, our bodies aren't quite as efficient, in general, as they were 25-30 years ago. So, to make a long story short, I think it's complex and not yet thoroughly researched enough.1
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Hormones do count. There are several studies showing that lower testosterone levels directly affect things like muscle mass and how you burn fat. That said, it was so much easier for me to stay lean into my mid 40's versus now in my 60's. I have to do much more cardio than I've done before and focus on how much I'm eating. But I've grown accustomed to that crap now.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition2 -
Humans basically begin to cook from the minute we're born and when we're finish cooking we die. It's called glycation creating Advanced Glycation End products (AGE). Cartlidge in a child is white and in a 90 year old it's brown, basically. Slowing that down helps people live better and stay and look younger despite their age
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Metabolism slows as you age, so while the 50 year old and 20 year old in your scenario do the exact same as far as eating and exercise, the 50 year old will have a harder time burning those calories (especially from the hard to burn areas like lower abdomen) and therefore has to either eat less, or workout more to keep same pace as the 20 year old0
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Recent research suggests that metabolic rate doesn't change much from 20s until around 60, after which it declines relatively slowly.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8370708/
What does change is lifestyle and possibly body composition. In other words: Activity level (daily life as well as exercise), and level of muscularity (because we lose it if we don't challenge it, basically).trixsterjl31 wrote: »I saw a post about being older and it being harder to lose weight and easier to gain. When you look it up it says a 20 year old man burns 10 - 15 percent more than a 50 year old all else being the same. My question... is all else the same:
When i was a kid I played games and sports all day.
When i was a teen I played games and sports some times but still rode a bike everywhere.
When i was late teen I got a car and most walking stopped and bike riding became for fun.
When I was 20 plus I exercised to try and stay in shape. Navy, but had I not been Navy the experience would have varied based on job or what I did. I very well could have go to college partied and did other stuff that burned less calories and then moved on to an office job that demanded no activity.
When i was 30 plus I pretty much started exercising in bursts when I noticed I was getting fat and then stopped and yoyo weighted. Work was mildly demanding but didn't keep up with calories from beer and pizza.
40 plus. Pretty much the same as 30 with ups and down in weight, downs forced by effort and habits completely driving gain.
50 plus. Same as 30 plus.
Here is what i'm thinking. Does a 50 year old that cycles for fun and does 10 k runs really have a lot harder time than a 20 year old that does the same losing weight?
IMO, could be harder or easier. Heavy exercise can reduce daily life calorie expenditure, if a person isn't accustomed to that exercise load. That's true at any age.
Also, "hard" is subjective. Most everyone finds weight loss "hard" in some way at some point in the process. What differs is the specific "hard". Many people will think their "hard" is harder than other people's hard, I suspect. That's human.
Examples of things mentioned as making it hard: Age, long history of overweight, history of yo-yo dieting, physical limitations on exercise (at any age), hypothyroidism, insulin resistance, other health conditions, menopausal status, not liking exercise, not liking vegetables, being female, . . . etc. (For clarity, I'm not endorsing any of those, just saying I've seen them mentioned here as making weight loss harder.)
As an aside, I think you're over-estimating the value of exercise when it comes to weight loss. For a dozen years, I worked out pretty hard 6 days most weeks, even competed as an athlete (not always unsuccessfully in age group competitions) . . . but stayed overweight/obese. The exercise was probably pretty close to that "10k runs and cycling for fun" level. That exercise is only a few hundred calories per day, maybe the food equivalent of a slice of hearty bread with a strict serving of peanut butter. It's easy to eat that much extra without noticing when not calorie counting, and exercise tends to increase appetite.
Once I managed the eating side of the equation, I lost weight fine . . . at age 59/60, while menopausal and severely hypothyroid (medicated for the latter).
As an aside, there's evidence that "high calorie flux" (moving more while eating more) makes weight maintenance more achievable than the same net calorie intake with "low calorie flux" (moving less but eating less).
If they both do mild activity and eat sensibly every day with mild activity instead of the vigorous training will either likely be over weight.
Same deal here: What matters is calorie balance. Not the amount of exercise. Strictly speaking, when it comes to bodyweight, exercise is optional. (It's a good idea for other reasons, obviously!)
If "eat sensibly" means eat the number of calories one needs to stay at current weight, they'll both stay at current weight. If "sensibly" is a calorie deficit, they'll both lose; if at a calorie surplus, they'll both gain.
If both eat fast food and drink beer at the same by weight/height do you really think that a 20 year old gains weight 15 percent slower than a 50 year old or is it more likely other stuff they do because they are 20 that burns more calories and they dont wake up in traction after a pick up game of basketball?
Fast food and beer have calories. If those calories are appropriately accounted for, the results will be about the same for both. That's holding a lot of other conditions equal.
IMO, you're making multiple questionable assumptions about what wouldn't be similar between a 20 y/o and 60 y/o. Naming a couple:
* A 20 y/o doesn't necessarily do more other stuff than a 50 y/o. Individuals vary. If the 20 year old is a reference librarian who sits at a desk all day, does sit-still online gaming for fun in his mom's basement every night, and the 50 y/o is a registered nurse on his feet every day of the work week and remodeling his house in his spare time, that's going to matter . . . matter more than exercise load.
* It's ridiculous to assume that a 50 y/o will wake up in traction after playing pickup basketball. If their fitness level is up to it, they'll be fine. I'm 68, routinely work out with people multiple decades younger - doing workouts I'm reasonably used to doing (on water rowing) - and keep up, no traction required. I've had 50+ y/o male friends who played basketball regularly, or played ice hockey, or ran competitively (for distance), or competed in triathlons, or routinely did 100 mile bike rides, etc. Conditioning matters. 50 isn't that old. I row often with a 78 y/o woman. She rows with the young'uns and keeps up fine, too.
Clearly, living on fast food and beer isn't a great health strategy for anyone, and can make it hard to stay at a healthy weight.
Low expectations of "old" people are a systemic problem, and they're particularly toxic when internalized as assumptions about ourselves. At any age, a person can increase activity level (sensibly gradually) and improve their fitness. Anyone at any age can have disabilities or other physical limitations.
Now to wonder if anyone will even read all that. lol.
The study I linked earlier in the post reviews a lot of these factors pretty clearly.
Now we'll see if anyone will even read all that. ^^^^6 -
I read it!
I’ve just turned 50 and I’ve exercised my whole life, doing a series of different sports / activities from ice skating to martial arts to long distance swimming to my current fave, weightlifting.
The ONLY difference I have personally found is that I need better recovery as a 50 year old. In my early 20s I could go clubbing 2-3 nights in a row, still turn up at uni or work and then exercise. But now if I stay up a couple of hours past my bedtime I feel rough as anything the next day. I have to prioritise sleep and nutrition to be able to exercise as hard as I want and live well . But calories-wise, I suspect I’m eating the most I ever have (only been tracking for 7-8 years so guessing at my intake before then). I certainly eat a lot for someone my size. I also have more muscle mass now than I ever have - which should help me stay independent as I get older.
Hormones of course do affect metabolism slightly, but I’m going to go back to something I’ve said before: at ANY stage in life it’s hard to be consistently healthy and keep on track. Having a young family, caring for elderly parents, suffering from an autoimmune condition, going through personal stress - they all make it hard to bounce out of bed and choose the healthy lifestyle. But it is possible, and in my own experience, blaming age for slowing metabolism is just an excuse.6 -
claireychn074 wrote: »I read it!
I’ve just turned 50 and I’ve exercised my whole life, doing a series of different sports / activities from ice skating to martial arts to long distance swimming to my current fave, weightlifting.
The ONLY difference I have personally found is that I need better recovery as a 50 year old. In my early 20s I could go clubbing 2-3 nights in a row, still turn up at uni or work and then exercise. But now if I stay up a couple of hours past my bedtime I feel rough as anything the next day. I have to prioritise sleep and nutrition to be able to exercise as hard as I want and live well . But calories-wise, I suspect I’m eating the most I ever have (only been tracking for 7-8 years so guessing at my intake before then). I certainly eat a lot for someone my size. I also have more muscle mass now than I ever have - which should help me stay independent as I get older.
Hormones of course do affect metabolism slightly, but I’m going to go back to something I’ve said before: at ANY stage in life it’s hard to be consistently healthy and keep on track. Having a young family, caring for elderly parents, suffering from an autoimmune condition, going through personal stress - they all make it hard to bounce out of bed and choose the healthy lifestyle. But it is possible, and in my own experience, blaming age for slowing metabolism is just an excuse.
Totally agree. I'm in better shape at 39 than I was at 21. Blaming metabolism is unhelpful, honestly. If you don't feel like you can change it, you won't.3 -
Lots of cultural bias about aging and performance out there. I don’t think it’s one size fits all.
How one treats their body over time is key, epigenetics will either boost someone’s performance or weaken it.
Time to challenge what we think about perceptions of aging and what age “old” is.
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SafariGalNYC wrote: »Lots of cultural bias about aging and performance out there. I don’t think it’s one size fits all.
How one treats their body over time is key, epigenetics will either boost someone’s performance or weaken it.
Time to challenge what we think about perceptions of aging and what age “old” is.
For sure, epigenetics are basically instructions for our genetic code that influences our gene expression. As far as diet goes, high sugar intake, processed foods and unhealthy fats can and do displace more nutrient rich foods when they represent a significant percentage of the foods we eat.
The main problem with this diet, other than the obvious health issues is it effect the availability of methyl groups which are essential for methylation which results in undermethylation which leads to reduced enzyme activity affecting the conversion of homocysteine to methionine as well as a deficiency in B vitamins mostly B6 and B12, as well as magnesium and zinc which effect that methylation cycle and certain AA's like cysteine and methionine as well as elevated homocysteine levels which indicate a poor methylation balance and all of this is essential for our body to function properly, all the time, everyday.
Undermethylation can lead to some usual suspects that people feel on a daily basis, like; fatigue, depression, insomnia, digestive issues, low serotonin, obsessive compulsive behavior, nervousness. AGE's which I mentioned effects oxidative stress and inflammation the most as well and the methyl cycle, which is all part of the puzzle for overall health and longevity and this all lead down the road to unhealth and the now prevalent non communicable diseases like obesity, diabetes and dementia and other brain functions that we find ourselves with. In other words it's more than just calories when it comes to health and weight loss, basically real food matters.
for more info:
https://eatfor.life/imbalances/undermethylation/#:~:text=Undermethylation%20%28also%20called%20histadelia%29%20is%20a%20condition%20that,an%20individual%20will%20feel%20depressed%2C%20anxious%2C%20and%20fatigued.
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Interesting thoughtful discussion...
When i was young, and older people mentioned fatigue, pain, or made reminder lists of things they wanted to get done that/next day. Their skin was wrinkly, they went to bed early instead of staying up later....
Well, in my hubris, thought, pffftttt, they must be doing something wrong... i will stave off all those things...
If only....
Yes, we can slow, even improve some things, but time moves on, and all of us will in some ways or others experience physical and significant declines...
I think the article(s) is an attempt to describe the possibilities and inevitables...
Happy happywise, if we are alive, breathing, can put our smile on, enjoy life with family and friends another day, then all good. Each day is actually a bonus and a chance to embrace opportunity on a profound level... or even maybe to rest, just to be and enjoy. Life ought to be cherished. It ends too soon.
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I am 72 years old- moderately active. I am a chronic yo-yo dieter. I have lost 19 pounds in the 9 weeks-my ldl went from 106 to 33. Have not found this any harder than when I was younger. I actually feel I have more disciple.6
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I am 72 years old- moderately active. I am a chronic yo-yo dieter. I have lost 19 pounds in the 9 weeks-my ldl went from 106 to 33. Have not found this any harder than when I was younger. I actually feel I have more disciple.
I agree. I'm 53 and have realized that I have already cut years off my life with my past choices(most likely) I working now to maximize what I have left. Especially the quality part.4 -
N=1.
I lost weight to goal in 2013 age 50. Have put back on couple of kg's up and down since then but basically stayed almost the same.
In the following 11 years: have gone through menopause and also had a thyroid tumour removed, necessitating taking thyroid medication ( level periodically monitored and adjusted by blood test) and of course grown a decade older.
Activity level about the same.
Did not notice any difference in ability to maintain weight at BMI of 231 -
neanderthin wrote: »SafariGalNYC wrote: »Lots of cultural bias about aging and performance out there. I don’t think it’s one size fits all.
How one treats their body over time is key, epigenetics will either boost someone’s performance or weaken it.
Time to challenge what we think about perceptions of aging and what age “old” is.
For sure, epigenetics are basically instructions for our genetic code that influences our gene expression. As far as diet goes, high sugar intake, processed foods and unhealthy fats can and do displace more nutrient rich foods when they represent a significant percentage of the foods we eat.
The main problem with this diet, other than the obvious health issues is it effect the availability of methyl groups which are essential for methylation which results in undermethylation which leads to reduced enzyme activity affecting the conversion of homocysteine to methionine as well as a deficiency in B vitamins mostly B6 and B12, as well as magnesium and zinc which effect that methylation cycle and certain AA's like cysteine and methionine as well as elevated homocysteine levels which indicate a poor methylation balance and all of this is essential for our body to function properly, all the time, everyday.
Undermethylation can lead to some usual suspects that people feel on a daily basis, like; fatigue, depression, insomnia, digestive issues, low serotonin, obsessive compulsive behavior, nervousness. AGE's which I mentioned effects oxidative stress and inflammation the most as well and the methyl cycle, which is all part of the puzzle for overall health and longevity and this all lead down the road to unhealth and the now prevalent non communicable diseases like obesity, diabetes and dementia and other brain functions that we find ourselves with. In other words it's more than just calories when it comes to health and weight loss, basically real food matters.
for more info:
https://eatfor.life/imbalances/undermethylation/#:~:text=Undermethylation%20%28also%20called%20histadelia%29%20is%20a%20condition%20that,an%20individual%20will%20feel%20depressed%2C%20anxious%2C%20and%20fatigued.
@neanderthin- agree about AGE’s - I’m surprised I’ve not heard more people on MFP talk about it over the years. A good friend ran a major study on AGEs at Mount Sinai in NYC. Ruined my affinity for Parmesan cheese. Lol
I think it’s how we treat our bodies.. and I suspect also what we put in them for our chronological age.. rather than biological.
• Yūichirō Miura was 80 years old when he climbed Mount Everest.
•There was just a news article about Fauja Singh.. who is a marathon runner.. who still runs at 109 years old!
Through the years, there are dozens of world class athletes aged 50 - 70 who have competed in the Olympics.
Link here talking about age and sports :
https://www.topendsports.com/events/summer/oldest-per-sport.htm
Can everyone climb Mt. Everest at 80?.. maybe not.. but I think there is much we can do to optimize our health at every age. (There are also 20 year olds that can’t climb Mt. Everest. )
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SafariGalNYC wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »SafariGalNYC wrote: »Lots of cultural bias about aging and performance out there. I don’t think it’s one size fits all.
How one treats their body over time is key, epigenetics will either boost someone’s performance or weaken it.
Time to challenge what we think about perceptions of aging and what age “old” is.
For sure, epigenetics are basically instructions for our genetic code that influences our gene expression. As far as diet goes, high sugar intake, processed foods and unhealthy fats can and do displace more nutrient rich foods when they represent a significant percentage of the foods we eat.
The main problem with this diet, other than the obvious health issues is it effect the availability of methyl groups which are essential for methylation which results in undermethylation which leads to reduced enzyme activity affecting the conversion of homocysteine to methionine as well as a deficiency in B vitamins mostly B6 and B12, as well as magnesium and zinc which effect that methylation cycle and certain AA's like cysteine and methionine as well as elevated homocysteine levels which indicate a poor methylation balance and all of this is essential for our body to function properly, all the time, everyday.
Undermethylation can lead to some usual suspects that people feel on a daily basis, like; fatigue, depression, insomnia, digestive issues, low serotonin, obsessive compulsive behavior, nervousness. AGE's which I mentioned effects oxidative stress and inflammation the most as well and the methyl cycle, which is all part of the puzzle for overall health and longevity and this all lead down the road to unhealth and the now prevalent non communicable diseases like obesity, diabetes and dementia and other brain functions that we find ourselves with. In other words it's more than just calories when it comes to health and weight loss, basically real food matters.
for more info:
https://eatfor.life/imbalances/undermethylation/#:~:text=Undermethylation%20%28also%20called%20histadelia%29%20is%20a%20condition%20that,an%20individual%20will%20feel%20depressed%2C%20anxious%2C%20and%20fatigued.
@neanderthin- agree about AGE’s - I’m surprised I’ve not heard more people on MFP talk about it over the years. A good friend ran a major study on AGEs at Mount Sinai in NYC. Ruined my affinity for Parmesan cheese. Lol
I think it’s how we treat our bodies.. and I suspect also what we put in them for our chronological age.. rather than biological.
• Yūichirō Miura was 80 years old when he climbed Mount Everest.
•There was just a news article about Fauja Singh.. who is a marathon runner.. who still runs at 109 years old!
Through the years, there are dozens of world class athletes aged 50 - 70 who have competed in the Olympics.
Link here talking about age and sports :
https://www.topendsports.com/events/summer/oldest-per-sport.htm
Can everyone climb Mt. Everest at 80?.. maybe not.. but I think there is much we can do to optimize our health at every age. (There are also 20 year olds that can’t climb Mt. Everest. )
Well, you could pick a 12 month instead of a 36 month parmigiana, lol.
For sure, the more we try and consume a proper human diet, as in whole natural foods found mostly from the environment we live in addresses our biological needs more directly and minimizes glycation (AGE) for the most part while helping us extend our chronological life span.
The example I like the most are the traditional shepherds of Ikaria who live in the mountainous region of that Island.
They consumed foods they grow and raise including the milk, cheese and meat from goats and also consume chickens, ducks and some pork and a lot of legumes, greens, vegetables, potatoes but very little grain, almost none, it is mountainous after all. Their kids unfortunately that have moved away are like the rest of Greece for life expectancy and are around 35th compared to other countries which Canada is 20th and Italy is 9th for example. Even the inhabitants of the coastal and more urban regions of Ikaria don't live as long.
To your point about activity, I've heard that the men of Ikaria live as long or a little longer than the women which can't be said anywhere from what I've gathered and suspect it's because the men walk several kilometers each day as they tend to their flocks and navigate the island’s mountainous terrain, makes sense.
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neanderthin wrote: »SafariGalNYC wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »
The example I like the most are the traditional shepherds of Ikaria who live in the mountainous region of that Island.
They consumed foods they grow and raise including the milk, cheese and meat from goats and also consume chickens, ducks and some pork and a lot of legumes, greens, vegetables, potatoes but very little grain, almost none, it is mountainous after all. Their kids unfortunately that have moved away are like the rest of Greece for life expectancy and are around 35th compared to other countries which Canada is 20th and Italy is 9th for example. Even the inhabitants of the coastal and more urban regions of Ikaria don't live as long.
To your point about activity, I've heard that the men of Ikaria live as long or a little longer than the women which can't be said anywhere from what I've gathered and suspect it's because the men walk several kilometers each day as they tend to their flocks and navigate the island’s mountainous terrain, makes sense.
@neanderthin - I just came back from Ikaria!!! Love it!
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SafariGalNYC wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »SafariGalNYC wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »
The example I like the most are the traditional shepherds of Ikaria who live in the mountainous region of that Island.
They consumed foods they grow and raise including the milk, cheese and meat from goats and also consume chickens, ducks and some pork and a lot of legumes, greens, vegetables, potatoes but very little grain, almost none, it is mountainous after all. Their kids unfortunately that have moved away are like the rest of Greece for life expectancy and are around 35th compared to other countries which Canada is 20th and Italy is 9th for example. Even the inhabitants of the coastal and more urban regions of Ikaria don't live as long.
To your point about activity, I've heard that the men of Ikaria live as long or a little longer than the women which can't be said anywhere from what I've gathered and suspect it's because the men walk several kilometers each day as they tend to their flocks and navigate the island’s mountainous terrain, makes sense.
@neanderthin - I just came back from Ikaria!!! Love it!
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