Calories are NOT equal
Replies
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And when folks explain it this way, it makes a lot of sense, to me (who eats so-called clean) and to new dieters. When they mock, and post flying donuts as a reply to every thread it's not so helpful.These threads pain me because I think they can be very confusing to newer people trying to figure out what to do. Yes - you can lose weight eating whatever the heck you want to as long as you have a deficit. It doesn't mean you will get all of the nutrients your body needs and functions best on. This is why there are plenty of obese people who are malnourished. They eat plenty of calories, but don't meet their nutritional needs.
I think why people get so upset is the all or nothing approach. You don't have to eat 100% clean with no treats and you shouldn't eat all junk with no nutrition. This is why the IIFYM works for me. I eat mostly healthy and nutritious foods and lots of veggies, but I can have a treat or an unhealthy meal now and then without feeling guilty.
To look at it one way - I am very small. MFP has me set at 1200 calories to lose 1/2 lb a week. If I was eating only processed food and sugary snacks, I would be starving. In that case, 1200 doesn't get me very far. By eating mostly whole foods, I eat A LOT of food and stay within my calories - even with treats.
For me, living this way - mostly whole healthy foods with a occasional fun meal or dessert - is very sustainable.
And, to be honest, I'm not convinced that newer folks truly get what the originators of the iffym approach to dieting intended.
You, my friend, are awesome.
(and really, most good diets (even formal ones) are built around the principles you just described.)
ETA: I also think we all need to remember that losing weight is a small part of the battle. Heck most folks here are champs at losing. The hard part is maintaining....and each person has to figure out how they will best maintain their weight. For me, it's as Michael Pollan suggests: "eat food, not too much, mostly plants". Granted, by "food" he means whole foods rather than pre-packaged, heavily processed convenience foods, and so do I.
MOST OF THE TIME.0 -
I love this! Great debate going on here and it got people talking, which is awesome! I did ask, 'what do you think" and the wheels have been speeding here!
Thank you guys for all the back and fourth comments. I think this was something that got people thinking, whether they agree or not
There were a few that got pretty defensive, but I understand.0 -
I am at a healthy weight, healthy blood work and my diary would make a clean eater weep.
I really do not care what others eat, you should try that....it is liberating not to have the faith of the world on your shoulders
I love you. You said that perfectly. :flowerforyou:
My kind of minion. Come to the dark side, we have cookies
And ice cream.0 -
I am at a healthy weight, healthy blood work and my diary would make a clean eater weep.
I really do not care what others eat, you should try that....it is liberating not to have the faith of the world on your shoulders
I love you. You said that perfectly. :flowerforyou:
My kind of minion. Come to the dark side, we have cookies
And ice cream.
and Pop tarts!!0 -
The horrid, disgusting thing on the right is the product of fast food and ice cream.
Tell your children! Let me be a warning.0 -
So if I eat clean I can reverse my baldness?0
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Ok, I in NO way meant any harm or insult here. I only was trying to help. Proof? Ask any nutritionist or doctor, read any health book or magazine...pretty much anywhere you can learn that. It's not a bad thing or hurtful thing that I said, but I see it sure hit a lot of nerves and I don't understand that at all.
I never said not to have that treat every once in a while. I was trying to help, because YES when you give your body foods closest to nature, our system knows exactly what to do with it very easily. Food today is so unhealthy and that is why we, as people are getting so sick and new illnesses keep popping up. Look on ANY article and see what it says how to prevent these illness or how to just stay healthy....what you eat is #1. What you eat is about 80% of health.
There is a saying in the health world, "bodies are made in the kitchen" which goes for healthy foods or unhealthy foods.
Again, never thought this would ruffle so many feathers, and for that, I am truly sorry.
No No No No No
Stop reading articles and listening to gurus
^this
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@Ninerbuff,
Would you agree then that yes, macro and calories matter, but when one client eats unhealthy and the other healthy, both eating the same macros and calories, one will gain muscle and lose fat faster?? One will have more energy? One will have healthier skin and hair?
But what about adherence? Being overly strict usually sets one up for failure.0 -
This really depends on your goal. If your goal is to create a calorie deficit to lose weight (or stick to a certain calorie allowance to maintain or gain), then yes, calories are equal. However, if your goal is to healthy, calories are definitely not created equal.0
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This really depends on your goal. If your goal is to create a calorie deficit to lose weight (or stick to a certain calorie allowance to maintain or gain), then yes, calories are equal. However, if your goal is to healthy, calories are definitely not created equal.
Nice sentiment. It even sounds nice. But it's simply not borne out by any evidence at all. There's simply no logical reason to think that way. In fact, there's a great deal of evidence to the contrary.
Macro and calorie intake is what really actually matters at the end of the day. Eating "clean" organic food will not make you any healthier than "unclean" or inorganic or whatever else food.0 -
Proof? Give a person the same number of calories but one eats all the healthy/clean foods while the other eats the junk. Whose body looks better?
not factual.
+
agreed...this part is bull...i have seen manyyyyyyyyyy a hotness here who allow for what OP thinks is bad food in addition to hitting their macros0 -
The horrid, disgusting thing on the right is the product of fast food and ice cream.
Tell your children! Let me be a warning.
:flowerforyou:0 -
Meh. I eat my fair share of crap and I think I am doing just fine.0
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Remember this in a year so I can prove you wrong lol.
I have been working hard at my fitness, I WILL NEVER CUT WHITE BREAD,
I dont care how many people say its bad for you, people need good carbs and like my white bad carbs, its fuel, I eat it, it tastes yum and I dont feel like its a chore I need to eat for example brown/multigrain or cruskets.
Potatoe White bread coke and pepsi max......:drinker: but i have only been drinking water......I know what I can and cant sacrifice for my journey. But i wont eliminate my favorite foods for no one. id rather spend 3 hours a day killing myself working out then eating food that doesn't satisfy me.
People posting facts should post links, I like to research when I am bored, but I don't go out of my way to be hated. Theres a do and a dont about myfitnesspal. Dont be a hater, pick on someones journey, tell them what to eat or mention anything about a quick fix. Be a supporter, a mentor and living proof that the real hard work pays off......everyone works hard differently. Things work differently for different people.
whoop whoop! 0 -
The horrid, disgusting thing on the right is the product of fast food and ice cream.
Tell your children! Let me be a warning.
:flowerforyou:
great success to you0 -
Excellent points! (Corrected a minor typo and added a paragraph break to the original, well written post by ron2e.)Calories are a measure, like inches or litres. It is nonsense to say they are unequal. Try comparing two inches and tell me they are unequal!
Eating healthy is good, eating unhealthy is bad, nothing to do with calories or weight loss, simply the effect on your health.
Consider this though, if you cut out all the unhealthy stuff from your diet and eat only 'healthy' food, you are likely to fail as the change may be too radical. If you fit your unhealthy stuff within your daily calorie allowance in smaller quantities and in a mix with more 'healthy' food, you are more likely to succeed and you will lose weight. And simply losing weight will benefit your health.
And I liked the following quote too. (Thanks to ryry62685 for sharing it.)"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it."
Gandhi
ETA: And yes, I recognize that there is some irony in repeating what someone said and then pointing out that the number of times it's repeated doesn't make it true.
But I thought these were some of the best responses I've seen in awhile. Calories are equal. That's the whole point to them. However, the health benefits of different foods is not equal, even when their caloric amount is the same. 0 -
You know, the two concepts aren't really mutually exclusive. Convenience foods are easy, often delicious, and adequately fuel your body. Home cooked, whole foods are delicious and maybe give you a little bit extra than convenience foods. The exact blend that you need in order to stay healthy, meet your weight loss goals, and stick with the program long term is unique to you.
The problem when you look at it as black and weight, good food and bad food, is that it results in a diet that many people simply can't stick with. And because they haven't learned to come to terms with convenience foods and learn to eat them in reasonable quantities, it leads to spectacular failure and a return to the negative behaviors that made them fat in the first place.
Personally, I feel I've found a diet that is both healthful and long term sustainable. Frankly I think that's far superior to a perfectly 'clean' diet that I would struggle to sustain and would definitely impact my overall quality of life by consuming far too much time with food preparation.0 -
These threads pain me because I think they can be very confusing to newer people trying to figure out what to do. Yes - you can lose weight eating whatever the heck you want to as long as you have a deficit. It doesn't mean you will get all of the nutrients your body needs and functions best on. This is why there are plenty of obese people who are malnourished. They eat plenty of calories, but don't meet their nutritional needs.
I think why people get so upset is the all or nothing approach. You don't have to eat 100% clean with no treats and you shouldn't eat all junk with no nutrition. This is why the IIFYM works for me. I eat mostly healthy and nutritious foods and lots of veggies, but I can have a treat or an unhealthy meal now and then without feeling guilty.
To look at it one way - I am very small. MFP has me set at 1200 calories to lose 1/2 lb a week. If I was eating only processed food and sugary snacks, I would be starving. In that case, 1200 doesn't get me very far. By eating mostly whole foods, I eat A LOT of food and stay within my calories - even with treats.
For me, living this way - mostly whole healthy foods with a occasional fun meal or dessert - is very sustainable.
YES! YES! YES!! That is my point and thank you!!
I am not small. I have a higher calorie allowance. I do not have appetite issues. I have treats daily, along with fruits and veggies. However, a lot of my food is processed - yogurt, ice cream, seitan, soy, peanut butter, milk even....all processed.
The poster has very valid points, but they become less important the higher the calorie allowance someone has.0 -
Calories are a measure, like inches or litres. It is nonsense to say they are unequal. Try comparing two inches and tell me they are unequal!
Eating healthy is good, eating unhealthy is bad, nothing to do with calories or weight loss, simply the effect on your health.
Consider this though, if you cut out all the unhealthy stuff from your diet and eat only 'healthy' food, you are likely to fail as the change may be too radical. If you fit your unhealthy stuff within your daily calorie allowance in smaller quantities and in a mix with more 'healthy' food, you are more likely to succeed and you will lose weight. And simply losing weight will benefit your health.
Nonsensical post because "healthy" and "unhealthy" are meaningless and undefineable weasel words.0 -
@Ninerbuff,
Would you agree then that yes, macro and calories matter, but when one client eats unhealthy and the other healthy, both eating the same macros and calories, one will gain muscle and lose fat faster?? One will have more energy? One will have healthier skin and hair?
Define 'healthy' in the context of food.0 -
That and claiming one eats "healthy" and the other eats "unhealthy" is a loaded language fallacy. Of course, if someone eats 'unhealthy' their health would suffer. That's obvious.@Ninerbuff,
Would you agree then that yes, macro and calories matter, but when one client eats unhealthy and the other healthy, both eating the same macros and calories, one will gain muscle and lose fat faster?? One will have more energy? One will have healthier skin and hair?
But what about adherence? Being overly strict usually sets one up for failure.
But the problem is that certain foods are being assigned a label of 'unhealthy' for no reason other than they don't fit an arbitrary definition of 'clean.'0 -
This kind of comment is suitable for those who have maintained their ideal weight for many years and want to improve their diet. For the rest of us -- working to lose or maintain their ideal weight -- it is another burden that I choose not to carry.
(I should have just ignored this thread.:laugh: )0 -
Genes play a big part of it. Macros for one person may be ok but the same diet would cause high cholesterol in another. The same for sugar intake. I guess it all depends on the goal of your program, whether it is losing pounds or reducing your risk of illness and chronic disease. I have encountered many skinny unhealthy people in my years of healthcare.0
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Genes play a big part of it. Macros for one person may be ok but the same diet would cause high cholesterol in another.
Wut.0 -
Calories are a measure, like inches or litres. It is nonsense to say they are unequal. Try comparing two inches and tell me they are unequal!
Eating healthy is good, eating unhealthy is bad, nothing to do with calories or weight loss, simply the effect on your health.
Consider this though, if you cut out all the unhealthy stuff from your diet and eat only 'healthy' food, you are likely to fail as the change may be too radical. If you fit your unhealthy stuff within your daily calorie allowance in smaller quantities and in a mix with more 'healthy' food, you are more likely to succeed and you will lose weight. And simply losing weight will benefit your health.
Nonsensical post because "healthy" and "unhealthy" are meaningless and undefineable weasel words.
I disagree. Eating "clean" is less defined, but eating healthy means that I eat what my body needs in order to be healthy. That may not be the same for everyone. For instance, i know someone with a neurological disorder who has been told that extra high levels of some fats may help him -- and it seems to be working. Eating healthy means you get all the nutrients (macro and micro) that your body requires. Some people's bodies digest certain things more efficiently or need more of something. If you're anemic, your body needs more iron in your blood. That doesn't necessarily mean ingesting more iron; the problem can be that you're not getting the other nutrients that help your body make use of the iron. Unhealthy eating can be anything from eating something that causes an allergic reaction, to consistently eating too many calories, to poisonous chemicals (lead=bad, but some chemicals are good - aside http://www.dhmo.org) or consistently eating an unbalanced diet that does not meet your nutritional needs. I don't care if you meet those needs from ice cream or organic seaweed -- if you meet them without causing other harm to your body, that's healthy eating. Food doesn't cause all illnesses, and it can't cure them, but an unhealthy diet can make you sick, or make it harder to heal.0 -
Eating healthy means you get all the nutrients (macro and micro) that your body requires.
Well, yes. That's the point. No individual food is "healthy" or "unhealthy." At the end of the day what matters is whether you've given your body the proper nutrients. That's why "clean" and "unclean" foods and "healthy" and "unhealthy" foods are stupid, pointless, distracting things to talk about. Nutrients are what matter.
Again: nutrients are what matter.
Calories are calories, nutrients are nutrients. No food is inherently bad.0 -
Read Fast Food Nation. It's just unbelievable to me the venom with which people will defend processed food. The makers of fast foods and processed foods love you; their advertising dollars have been well spent.0
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The horrid, disgusting thing on the right is the product of fast food and ice cream.
Tell your children! Let me be a warning.
That towel makes me unhappy for some odd reason.
On subject: Truth 1: I hit my macros most nights (it balances by Sunday) and I get my micronutrients daily (usually hit my weekly value by Thursday)
Truth 2: I fit Wendy's in twice a week and cookies, ice cream, or brownies nightly.
Why does Truth 2 magically render Truth 1 void?0 -
Read Fast Food Nation. It's just unbelievable to me the venom with which people will defend processed food. The makers of fast foods and processed foods love you; their advertising dollars have been well spent.
Oh boy. I wonder what venom was in the taco I ate earlier today.0 -
Read Fast Food Nation. It's just unbelievable to me the venom with which people will defend processed food. The makers of fast foods and processed foods love you; their advertising dollars have been well spent.
Stop. That book made my brain bleed. I'd read wheat belly four more time before I read Fast Food Nation again.0
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