Smith machine or squat rack

JoRocka

Also, just to play devil's advocate here, I (and many others) go to gyms that may not be as full-featured when it comes to free weights; they cram as many cardio machines into the space as they can. My little satellite gym for example only has a smith machine and no free rack.

time to find a new gym

Agreed. I would not pay for a gym that did not have the equipment I needed.

I wouldn't ACTUALLY die if I didn't have a squat rack- but maybe close.

madtownjeremy

I wouldn't ACTUALLY die if I didn't have a squat rack- but maybe close.

If I feel like going to the 'main' gym 20 minutes away, they have everything anyone needs. It's one of those chains where they have a couple of 'mothership' locations and then a bunch of smaller 'express' locations around the region.

That said, @Als above laid it out. There's a million ways to fill in the gaps if you don't have a proper squat rack. Do some incline leg presses, some walking barbell lunges, even some dumbbell squats and deadlifts. NOT that big a deal.

madtownjeremy

Racks are best! But you can get good use out of a Smith machine (at least I have) in addition to rack work.

ETA: If I'm at a facility with only a Smith (prob cause of liability) I will use it shamelessly and without issues.

So yeah...this.

CassandraBurgos83

I use both.... I go low and light at 75-135 on squat rack and do box squats at moderate on the rack, but I also go heavy (keeping in mind that the smith machine only has a bar with the weightt of 20 lbs resistance) including different variations including curtsey split squats on the smith.

k8blujay2

All we have in our gyms is a Smith Machine... and they call them squat racks.. :-|

LisaGNV

The squat rack.

Smith machines make great towel hangers though.

**ditto x eleventy billion**

Lupercalia

Forget the smith machine and learn it right the first time.

This.

da_bears10089

A gym without a squat rack is no gym for me.

AlsDonkBoxSquat

All we have in our gyms is a Smith Machine... and they call them squat racks.. :-|

false advertising :explode:

_errata_

Can any of you name one stabilizer muscle that is used in a barbell squat that isn't used in a smith machine squat?

To be honest, when I crack open my kinesiology or anatomy text books I can't find any reference to "stabilizer" muscles at all! It's almost like the entire muscle classification doesn't exist with the scientific literature!

http://doctoryessis.com/2013/01/02/what-are-stabilizer-muscles/

:laugh:

Muscle growth is caused by lifting to failure. Period. Your muscle doesn't give a damn about what the heck you use. There are advantages and disadvantages to using machines and free weights. Personally, I use both depending on my needs. People like Dorian Yates advocate the same philosophy, and that guy is a 6 time Mr. Olympian, so don't tell me you can't make gains using a machine.

This macho bs about the squat rack is really starting to irritate the crap out of me. Get to the gym. Move the weight until you cannot move it any more. Eat a bunch of protein. Profit.

GorillaNJ

The Smith Machine locks you into a fixed range of motion that most likely does not fit the way that your body naturally would perform the squat movement. It can damage your back or knees...

My gym has three smith machines and 1 squat rack... I will always wait for the rack

skullshank

Forget the smith machine and learn it right the first time.

dis.

Stage14

Can any of you name one stabilizer muscle that is used in a barbell squat that isn't used in a smith machine squat?

To be honest, when I crack open my kinesiology or anatomy text books I can't find any reference to "stabilizer" muscles at all! It's almost like the entire muscle classification doesn't exist with the scientific literature!

http://doctoryessis.com/2013/01/02/what-are-stabilizer-muscles/

:laugh:

Muscle growth is caused by lifting to failure. Period. Your muscle doesn't give a damn about what the heck you use. There are advantages and disadvantages to using machines and free weights. Personally, I use both depending on my needs. People like Dorian Yates advocate the same philosophy, and that guy is a 6 time Mr. Olympian, so don't tell me you can't make gains using a machine.

This macho bs about the squat rack is really starting to irritate the crap out of me. Get to the gym. Move the weight until you cannot move it any more. Eat a bunch of protein. Profit.

Are you looking for the answer of what muscles aren't really utilized much at all in a smith machine (like internal obliques and transverse abdominus, which are used to keep the bar from pitching to one side or the other in a freeweight squat)? Or the answer of which muscles aren't utilized quite as well (muscle activity is almost twice as high in the quads when using a barbel as when using the Smith)?

Also, my muscles may or may not give a damn about what I use, but my joints/ligaments/tendons do, and squatting with a Smith changes the range of motion of the squat, putting more stress on your lower back and knees (2 places that are already probably not up to snuff for beginning lifters).

I have no beef with someone who feels more comfortable using the Smith Machine because of safety, but to claim there is no difference between the two is naive at best.

Frosttshockk

Squat rack. There's nothing you can do on a Smith that free weights don't do better. Your ego will take a hit for a few weeks, but the massive gains you make will last a lifetime.

Also make sure you do them proper. Going heavy and half squatting squatting with terrible form will get you hurt.

_errata_

Can any of you name one stabilizer muscle that is used in a barbell squat that isn't used in a smith machine squat?

To be honest, when I crack open my kinesiology or anatomy text books I can't find any reference to "stabilizer" muscles at all! It's almost like the entire muscle classification doesn't exist with the scientific literature!

http://doctoryessis.com/2013/01/02/what-are-stabilizer-muscles/

:laugh:

Muscle growth is caused by lifting to failure. Period. Your muscle doesn't give a damn about what the heck you use. There are advantages and disadvantages to using machines and free weights. Personally, I use both depending on my needs. People like Dorian Yates advocate the same philosophy, and that guy is a 6 time Mr. Olympian, so don't tell me you can't make gains using a machine.

This macho bs about the squat rack is really starting to irritate the crap out of me. Get to the gym. Move the weight until you cannot move it any more. Eat a bunch of protein. Profit.

Are you looking for the answer of what muscles aren't really utilized much at all in a smith machine (like internal obliques and transverse abdominus, which are used to keep the bar from pitching to one side or the other in a freeweight squat)? Or the answer of which muscles aren't utilized quite as well (muscle activity is almost twice as high in the quads when using a barbel as when using the Smith)?

Also, my muscles may or may not give a damn about what I use, but my joints/ligaments/tendons do, and squatting with a Smith changes the range of motion of the squat, putting more stress on your lower back and knees (2 places that are already probably not up to snuff for beginning lifters).

I have no beef with someone who feels more comfortable using the Smith Machine because of safety, but to claim there is no difference between the two is naive at best.

I never meant to convey that they are the same lifts. It's a fact that the smith machine reduces the role that the hips play in the movement, which is important if you are a competitive athlete. Anytime you use a machine, the muscle groups associated with the lift will be activated differently... I am skeptical of your claim regarding 50% more activation of the quads though....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19855308

Electromyographic activity was significantly higher by 34, 26, and 49 in the gastrocnemius, biceps femoris, and vastus medialis, respectively, during the free weight squat compared to the Smith machine squat (p < 0.05). There were no significant differences between free weight and Smith machine squat for any of the other muscles; however, the EMG averaged over all muscles during the free weight squat was 43% higher when compared to the Smith machine squat (p < 0.05). The free weight squat may be more beneficial than the Smith machine squat for individuals who are looking to strengthen plantar flexors, knee flexors, and knee extensors.

http://www.academia.edu/167785/A_methodological_and_performance_comparison_of_free_weight_and_Smith-machine_jump_squats

Only mean power was found to be dissimilar between conditions (p=0.000), with the free weight condition producing superior mean power values (ES=0.60-1.41). No other differences were observed. The results of this study suggest that both conditions are acceptable methods of assessing the lower body for strength and power qualities, but that some kinetic values may differ as a result of the testing procedures. It is important to note that this research used elite national-level volleyball players as its participants; as such care must be taken when applying these results outside this population.

Sorry for this long link:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=&amp;esrc=s&amp;source=web&amp;cd=26&amp;ved=0CFsQFjAFOBQ&amp;url=http://media.wix.com/ugd/7aa42b_ee8b530450bcaea8c645bd9c3788d39c.pdf?dn=ContentServer.pdf&amp;ei=dAEuUvOPOIjS9gSE1IHoAg&amp;usg=AFQjCNFnaY4-DKudD8eUvJAx-cA-vh2o-w&amp;sig2=dCDE2yJ7RhQ5wRqZVI71Jw

The overall activation was greater in the first article because the lifters had to use the muscles around their knees more to prevent rocking horizontally, but everywhere else, there was no difference. There is zero evidence to support the claim that quads are activated 50% more during the lift, or that the joints and lower back are under more stress. I couldn't find any evidence to support either of those claims.

I am not saying it isn't true... I just can't find any research to support it.

Stage14

Can any of you name one stabilizer muscle that is used in a barbell squat that isn't used in a smith machine squat?

To be honest, when I crack open my kinesiology or anatomy text books I can't find any reference to "stabilizer" muscles at all! It's almost like the entire muscle classification doesn't exist with the scientific literature!

http://doctoryessis.com/2013/01/02/what-are-stabilizer-muscles/

:laugh:

Muscle growth is caused by lifting to failure. Period. Your muscle doesn't give a damn about what the heck you use. There are advantages and disadvantages to using machines and free weights. Personally, I use both depending on my needs. People like Dorian Yates advocate the same philosophy, and that guy is a 6 time Mr. Olympian, so don't tell me you can't make gains using a machine.

This macho bs about the squat rack is really starting to irritate the crap out of me. Get to the gym. Move the weight until you cannot move it any more. Eat a bunch of protein. Profit.

Are you looking for the answer of what muscles aren't really utilized much at all in a smith machine (like internal obliques and transverse abdominus, which are used to keep the bar from pitching to one side or the other in a freeweight squat)? Or the answer of which muscles aren't utilized quite as well (muscle activity is almost twice as high in the quads when using a barbel as when using the Smith)?

Also, my muscles may or may not give a damn about what I use, but my joints/ligaments/tendons do, and squatting with a Smith changes the range of motion of the squat, putting more stress on your lower back and knees (2 places that are already probably not up to snuff for beginning lifters).

I have no beef with someone who feels more comfortable using the Smith Machine because of safety, but to claim there is no difference between the two is naive at best.

I never meant to convey that they are the same lifts. It's a fact that the smith machine reduces the role that the hips play in the movement, which is important if you are a competitive athlete. Anytime you use a machine, the muscle groups associated with the lift will be activated differently... I am skeptical of your claim regarding 50% more activation of the quads though....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19855308

Electromyographic activity was significantly higher by 34, 26, and 49 in the gastrocnemius, biceps femoris, and vastus medialis, respectively, during the free weight squat compared to the Smith machine squat (p < 0.05). There were no significant differences between free weight and Smith machine squat for any of the other muscles; however, the EMG averaged over all muscles during the free weight squat was 43% higher when compared to the Smith machine squat (p < 0.05). The free weight squat may be more beneficial than the Smith machine squat for individuals who are looking to strengthen plantar flexors, knee flexors, and knee extensors.

http://www.academia.edu/167785/A_methodological_and_performance_comparison_of_free_weight_and_Smith-machine_jump_squats

Only mean power was found to be dissimilar between conditions (p=0.000), with the free weight condition producing superior mean power values (ES=0.60-1.41). No other differences were observed. The results of this study suggest that both conditions are acceptable methods of assessing the lower body for strength and power qualities, but that some kinetic values may differ as a result of the testing procedures. It is important to note that this research used elite national-level volleyball players as its participants; as such care must be taken when applying these results outside this population.

[link]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=&amp;esrc=s&amp;source=web&amp;cd=26&amp;ved=0CFsQFjAFOBQ&amp;url=http://media.wix.com/ugd/7aa42b_ee8b530450bcaea8c645bd9c3788d39c.pdf?dn=ContentServer.pdf&amp;ei=dAEuUvOPOIjS9gSE1IHoAg&amp;usg=AFQjCNFnaY4-DKudD8eUvJAx-cA-vh2o-w&amp;sig2=dCDE2yJ7RhQ5wRqZVI71Jw[/link]

The overall activation was greater in the first article because the lifters had to use the muscles around their knees more to prevent rocking horizontally, but everywhere else, there was no difference. There is zero evidence to support the claim that quads are activated 50% more during the lift, or that the joints and lower back are under more stress. I couldn't find any evidence to support either of those claims.

I am not saying it isn't true... I just can't find any research to support it.

I'm at work at the moment, but I'll try to provide you with a link to the study i referred to when I get home. I believe it was Canadian, but dont quote me on that part.

However, those muscles in the knee area you referred to? Part of your core stabilizing system in addition to the muscles I mentioned earlier. It isn't about muscle activity with core muscles, they aren't meant to create dynamic movement. It's about the load they can handle and still perform the functions of balance and stability.

michellekicks

No doubt I got stronger using a smith. But then I maxed out my lifts and feel like I would have started to get hurt. Really best to learn the correct lifts and only use a smith if/when you have to e.g. you're traveling and want to use a different gym that only has a smith.

_errata_

Personally, I would prefer to do free weight squats if I had a lifting partner or a power cage. I do not have either of those luxuries, so lifting to failure takes priority. I don't know about you guys, but if I am in a squat rack with 400+ lbs on my back and I lift to failure, I could seriously hurt myself.

For those of you who have bad joints, I would recommend doing a higher rep count with less weight, or doing one set with an emphasis on time under tension and a slower cadence. Lifting a lot of weight, free weight or smith machine, will snap your **** up bad if you can't control the weight and have terrible form. A lot of people who try to lift heavy will compensate for the increased load by powering through their set faster and by leveraging momentum.

For example, the next time you guys do squats, time how long it takes you to do one rep. If you're reaching the bottom of your squat in less than 3 or 4 seconds, you are going too fast and not controlling the weight. F = MA. If you are accelerating on your downward motion, the force will be greater, and the strain on your joints and risk of injury will be greater.

If there is anything to stress about lifting, it is this, "Go slow." Time under tension has much greater value than an arbitrary set/rep count and it prevents you from getting injured. Set and Rep counts are essentially useless without a relationship to time.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22106173

lifting4fun

Squat rack as stated above BUT ,after the primary moves- machine work for failure sets/higher rep when no spotter, play safe.

gsmithnp

Personally, I would prefer to do free weight squats if I had a lifting partner or a power cage. I do not have either of those luxuries

This is my issue as well. For those who would say "Get some free weights" or "go to a different gym" I say this: I can't afford to, so if you would like to contribute to my gym fund, I'll give you PayPal info. I would love to have just free weights/squat rack/whatever, or be able to afford to go to a gym with those available. I can't afford either one, so therefore I make do with the few weights and the Smith machine that I do have access to. FWIW, I do other forms of squats as well (body weight, dumbell, etc) and lunges, so it's better than nothing.