Bulking and gaining muscle...do you need to do it?

thekyleo

I've been trying to put on more muscle, but people say I should bulk. Others says I don't have to. not looking to gain weight, I lost a lot already why would I want to gain it back. any advise would be appreciated (bring on the trolls as well)

Iron_Lotus

If you don't eat a surplus of calories you cannot build new muscle.

JenMc14

If you want more muscle, a bulk would be the way to go. You can more of a recomp, and go barely over maintenance, it's a slower process, but can come with less fat. If you're happy with the muscle you have, lift as if you want more muscle, but don't eat for it, and you'll maintain what you've got.

And, yes, bulking can be a bit of a mindf@$k. But the weight you're putting will mostly be muscle, so you'll still look good, for the most part, then you can diet back down to lose any new fat. You may gain scale weight, but in the long run will likely actually be smaller and have a lower bf% if you follow a bulk with a cut.

thekyleo

If you want more muscle, a bulk would be the way to go. You can more of a recomp, and go barely over maintenance, it's a slower process, but can come with less fat. If you're happy with the muscle you have, lift as if you want more muscle, but don't eat for it, and you'll maintain what you've got.

And, yes, bulking can be a bit of a mindf@$k. But the weight you're putting will mostly be muscle, so you'll still look good, for the most part, then you can diet back down to lose any new fat. You may gain scale weight, but in the long run will likely actually be smaller and have a lower bf% if you follow a bulk with a cut.

I'm not happy with the muscle I have, I just think gaining weight to get stronger doesn't make any sense

Cherimoose

I just think gaining weight to get stronger doesn't make any sense

Gaining strength doesn't always mean getting bigger, because some strength is due to skill improvement. What is it you want - strength or increased muscle size?

What is your lifting program?

ElliottTN

You have to be a bit more specific with what you want. There is a difference between gaining muscle mass (bigger muscles) and gaining muscle strength (think more of muscle efficiency to lift heavier). Or doing both at the same time. Are you wanting to just look better or be able to lift heavier or both?

TonyStark30

If you you do not want to be big then the only reason you would bulk is if when losing all the fat you wanted to lose you found that you would end up way under the weight you wanted to be, and your body looked weak, kinda like losing weight but not looking any healthier, just weighing less. If your weight and body fat are going the way you want them too there is no need to stop what you're doing and gain weight, as you're just going to gain fat that you would have to lose again.

DavPul

are you trying to gain muscle or to get stronger? there's a difference between the two.

BinaryPulsar

bump

jlapey

This group can help you:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/10118-eat-train-progress

jollyjoe321

Been on a 6 month cut and lost just over 2 stone, started lifting three months ago and have pretty much at least doubled what I started on. Not really much bigger though purely because of the calorie deficit!

coolraul07

are you trying to gain muscle or to get stronger? there's a difference between the two.

*In* for having more muscle to have a higher metabolism (e.g. burn more cals, even at rest); much less emphasis on the strength numbers getting larger and larger.

AllanMisner

You most certainly can gain muscle while calorie restricted, but it takes time and body/energy awareness. It is much easier to gain muscle during a bulk, but you don't have to have a surplus of calories to build muscle. Key things to focus on include:
- Getting enough protein
- Properly fueling by timing your meals and workouts
- Getting plenty of sleep
- Drinking plenty of water

kdiamond

It can be done with minimal weight gain, I went up only 2 pounds while decreasing my body fat 3%. It's called a recomp.

Edited: I ate at maintenance and lifted heavy. Still do.

thekyleo

are you trying to gain muscle or to get stronger? there's a difference between the two.

i'm trying to gain muscle, I don't really care about lifting heavier weights

thekyleo

I want to look better

JenMc14

If you want to gain muscle you HAVE to gain scale weight. Muscle has mass, so can't gain it and not see a scale increase. How much do you have to go to your goal weight? What's your body fat? Get a good, heavy lifting program.if you still have fat to lose, eat just barely under maintenance. If you're happy with your weight and bf, but just want more size, eat over your maintenance.

thekyleo

If you want to gain muscle you HAVE to gain scale weight. Muscle has mass, so can't gain it and not see a scale increase. How much do you have to go to your goal weight? What's your body fat? Get a good, heavy lifting program.if you still have fat to lose, eat just barely under maintenance. If you're happy with your weight and bf, but just want more size, eat over your maintenance.

I have 9 lbs left to go, however I am at 23% bodyfat. I am currently lifting on a musclepharm 16 week program. I don't get how eating just under maintenance will help me lose bodyfat. I thought you had to be at a larger deficit

JenMc14

You will be at a deficit, just a small one. Deficit = fat loss, the smaller, the slower, but possibly helps with maintaining LBM. This would be for more of a recomp, as someone else posted about. It's a longer, slower process, but it can be done. It sounds to me like you'll want to lose fat before adding muscle. It can be done at the same time, ut is hard. Continue to strength train. Get plenty of protein. Eat at a deficit you're comfortable with to continue to lose. Once you lose more fat, you'll have a better idea if you're happy with the amount of muscle you have or not. Honestly, weight loss, fat loss, muscle gain, etc., at the end of the day is just one giant science experiment.

thekyleo

So your goal is to look better--that's not incompatible with bulking.


Have you met Staci?



This is more info about what lifting at heavier weights did for Staci and caused her to have the body on the right at 11 pounds more than her body on the left. Even if you don't want that much definition, or to bulk as much as she did, you can always stop before you get there, and you can see in the article that it's a lot of work to get that, and doesn't happen by accident.


http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/

I have met staci, I've read her story and while I think she did great. I have reservations about doing it

JenMc14

What are your reservations? Just the fact you'll gain scale weight? I'd take Staci's after, even if it meant 10 more pounds on the scale, over being jiggly, personally.

thekyleo

What are your reservations? Just the fact you'll gain scale weight? I'd take Staci's after, even if it meant 10 more pounds on the scale over, being jiggly, personally.

I worked hard losing the weight, I know 10lbs may not seem like a lot to you, but it is to me.

phjorg1

So u care more about a number on a scale than how you look. Got it.

JenMc14

What are your reservations? Just the fact you'll gain scale weight? I'd take Staci's after, even if it meant 10 more pounds on the scale over, being jiggly, personally.

I worked hard losing the weight, I know 10lbs may not seem like a lot to you, but it is to me.

10 pounds is a lot. I know. I've lost quite a bit and gained some back. But if I look better 10 pounds heavier, I can let it go. You're not happy with how you look now. You can continue to eat at a deficit and see if that makes you feel better if you don't want a scale weight gain. I'd suggest working on stepping back from the scale and relying on measurements, bf and how clothes fit.

thekyleo

So u care more about a number on a scale than how you look. Got it.

yes, that's it...is it vain? nope

kdiamond

You don't have to gain that much - look into recomp.

Although, I will tell you I look 100% better with more muscle/weight, my thighs are smaller, my butt tighter and higher, and my clothes fit the same. I'm wearing the same clothes at 112 pounds than I did at 105 pounds. Size 0/1. I have NO reservations about the scale showing a higher weight.

TonyStark30

If you want to gain muscle you HAVE to gain scale weight. Muscle has mass, so can't gain it and not see a scale increase. How much do you have to go to your goal weight? What's your body fat? Get a good, heavy lifting program.if you still have fat to lose, eat just barely under maintenance. If you're happy with your weight and bf, but just want more size, eat over your maintenance.

I have 9 lbs left to go, however I am at 23% bodyfat. I am currently lifting on a musclepharm 16 week program. I don't get how eating just under maintenance will help me lose bodyfat. I thought you had to be at a larger deficit

From your numbers I would suggest that you do need to bulk, but not yet. Get to below 15%bf then eat at a surplus, Lift as heavy as you can, gain weight, until your bf is back up to no more than 20% then go back to what you were doing before to lose weight.

I've done similar and I'm on the way back down again, got my last 10 pounds now, but I'll be 14lb of Muscle heavier.
Right now I'm at the more jiggly than when I hit my goal the first time but my body is better in some ways, shoulders back arms even legs just more athletic looking.

thekyleo

If you want to gain muscle you HAVE to gain scale weight. Muscle has mass, so can't gain it and not see a scale increase. How much do you have to go to your goal weight? What's your body fat? Get a good, heavy lifting program.if you still have fat to lose, eat just barely under maintenance. If you're happy with your weight and bf, but just want more size, eat over your maintenance.

I have 9 lbs left to go, however I am at 23% bodyfat. I am currently lifting on a musclepharm 16 week program. I don't get how eating just under maintenance will help me lose bodyfat. I thought you had to be at a larger deficit

From your numbers I would suggest that you do need to bulk, but not yet. Get to below 15%bf then eat at a surplus, Lift as heavy as you can, gain weight, until your bf is back up to no more than 20% then go back to what you were doing before to lose weight.

I've done similar and I'm on the way back down again, got my last 10 pounds now, but I'll be 14lb of Muscle heavier.
Right now I'm at the more jiggly than when I hit my goal the first time but my body is better in some ways, shoulders back arms even legs just more athletic looking.

why would I want to lose body fat then gain it again and then lose it again? i'm sorry if I sound like a ****, but it makes absolutely no sense

james6998

You most certainly can gain muscle while calorie restricted, but it takes time and body/energy awareness. It is much easier to gain muscle during a bulk, but you don't have to have a surplus of calories to build muscle. Key things to focus on include:
- Getting enough protein
- Properly fueling by timing your meals and workouts
- Getting plenty of sleep
- Drinking plenty of water

Yep, thats what i have been doing now for the past 8 weeks 2lbs muscle up, 1-1.5% BF down

DavPul

Okay, I think I'm starting to get the gist of both your question and your concerns.

gaining muscle is bulking. and yes, you'll gain weight if you gain muscle. that's just math. pure, simple, math. that doesn't mean you have to gain a ton of fat though. if you control your eating and keep yourself at a small surplus (or even right at maintenance) while using a solid hypertrophy program you can gain muscle with minimal fat.

as to your concern about the scale weight, don't worry about it. for most people it isn't the scale weight that's the root of the concern. it's actually how you'll look and how you'll fit into your jeans/dresses/shirts, etc. But it's actually quite normal for people to gain muscular weight while dropping sizes/inches and looking better in the mirror. 10 pounds of fat is a lot, but 10 pounds of muscle spread over your entire body takes up very little space.

TonyStark30

If you want to gain muscle you HAVE to gain scale weight. Muscle has mass, so can't gain it and not see a scale increase. How much do you have to go to your goal weight? What's your body fat? Get a good, heavy lifting program.if you still have fat to lose, eat just barely under maintenance. If you're happy with your weight and bf, but just want more size, eat over your maintenance.

I have 9 lbs left to go, however I am at 23% bodyfat. I am currently lifting on a musclepharm 16 week program. I don't get how eating just under maintenance will help me lose bodyfat. I thought you had to be at a larger deficit

From your numbers I would suggest that you do need to bulk, but not yet. Get to below 15%bf then eat at a surplus, Lift as heavy as you can, gain weight, until your bf is back up to no more than 20% then go back to what you were doing before to lose weight.

I've done similar and I'm on the way back down again, got my last 10 pounds now, but I'll be 14lb of Muscle heavier.
Right now I'm at the more jiggly than when I hit my goal the first time but my body is better in some ways, shoulders back arms even legs just more athletic looking.

why would I want to lose body fat then gain it again and then lose it again? i'm sorry if I sound like a ****, but it makes absolutely no sense

You don't want to gain fat, but gaining muscle you will gain some fat. That's why people suggest a small deficit so you don't just pile on the pounds and undo all your work, and why I suggested stopping at that point, as in theory you could just bulk forever and just be a muscled version of your old weight.


This is also why Recomp isn't really for you as your body fat is still too high for that, in reality, you recomping isn't much different to if you just did a gym programme, you would just be a stronger fitter version of your self but still have a lot of fat.

Keep losing, its gonna be more than 9lbs, its gonna be much less than your goal weight, then you put muscle and some fat on, then you lose the fat again, then at the end when you are eating at maintenance and your muscles are full you will be back up to the weight you thought would be your goal weight.