Real Numbers on Muscle Gain (muscle to fat ratio) READ
FrnkLft
Posts: 1,821 Member
Actual Numbers I Experienced:
Actual Weight Gain Period: 16 Weeks
Total Weight gained: 12 lbs.
Lean mass gained: 6.5 lbs.
Lean Mass Gain Rate: .54 / lb.
Read on for details. I started lifting back in November 2012.
Background:
So for the past 20 weeks, I've been "bulking". I put that in quotation marks because I stopped tracking my calories about half way, my meal timing and macros were not on point (though I know I got at least 1:1 grams protein/weight), and so of course I'm sure some weeks I over ate and some weeks I hit maintenance and some weeks I only ate ice cream lol (only partially false...)
It was also a transition period for me. For the first month and a half I was running Mike Matthew's "Bigger Leaner Stronger" protocol (5 day split, 3 exercises per group, 3x6). Then I started doing Layne Norton's PHAT using 5/3/1 as a basis for the main lifts on the power days (this eventually wore me out, btw once I started cutting again).
BodPod Results:
Even still, at the beginning I got tested for body composition at the local university, using the BodPod. It is the next most accurate way to measure bodyfat, aside from the water displacement method. From what I've read, it's pretty much just as good, just uses air instead of water.
- March 8 -
Weight: 142.4
Lean: 121.5
Fat: 20.9
BF%: 14.7
- Sept 17 -
Weight: 149.7
Lean: 128.0
Fat: 21.7
BF%: 14.6
I cut for another week or two after the first test, all the while lifting just as heavy as before. I'm making one fair assumption here, that no lean mass was lost as a result.
Bulk started March 18th, weight gain ended July 14th @ 154 lbs.
That's 16 weeks. I maintained for about a month after that then started cutting again. Then I got my body comp tested again... today.
Miscellaneous Notes:
Average Calorie Surplus: Unknown (went a few stretches binging on ice cream though lol, and I love ribs...) I didn't start gaining weight until I started shooting for 2,750 though.
I basically ate the same things every day though pretty much, with dinner and desert meals being the real wild card (chicken and veggies v. full rack of ribs and/or ice cream). I estimate that I was eating between 2,300 and 3,200 calories on a given day... average... (this scared me), is exactly 2,750. That said, this average is seriously unverifiable, and likely way inaccurate.
That's about 387 calories above my actual maintenance.
Fun Facts:
Gained 0.5 inches circumference in my right arm flexed. Hit this number at about Week 16. Only hit biceps directly once a week. DB Hammer Curls & Barbell Curls, 3x12 each. Triceps the same with dips and pushdowns.
I rest 2 minutes between EVERY set of every exercise (with the exception of short movements like calves and traps, 1min), and I do not do supersets, or drop sets, or anything like that.
So that's all the information I can think to share. Let me know if you have any other questions, I would be happy to go back and look at my numbers if it will help give you some perspective.
Actual Weight Gain Period: 16 Weeks
Total Weight gained: 12 lbs.
Lean mass gained: 6.5 lbs.
Lean Mass Gain Rate: .54 / lb.
Read on for details. I started lifting back in November 2012.
Background:
So for the past 20 weeks, I've been "bulking". I put that in quotation marks because I stopped tracking my calories about half way, my meal timing and macros were not on point (though I know I got at least 1:1 grams protein/weight), and so of course I'm sure some weeks I over ate and some weeks I hit maintenance and some weeks I only ate ice cream lol (only partially false...)
It was also a transition period for me. For the first month and a half I was running Mike Matthew's "Bigger Leaner Stronger" protocol (5 day split, 3 exercises per group, 3x6). Then I started doing Layne Norton's PHAT using 5/3/1 as a basis for the main lifts on the power days (this eventually wore me out, btw once I started cutting again).
BodPod Results:
Even still, at the beginning I got tested for body composition at the local university, using the BodPod. It is the next most accurate way to measure bodyfat, aside from the water displacement method. From what I've read, it's pretty much just as good, just uses air instead of water.
- March 8 -
Weight: 142.4
Lean: 121.5
Fat: 20.9
BF%: 14.7
- Sept 17 -
Weight: 149.7
Lean: 128.0
Fat: 21.7
BF%: 14.6
I cut for another week or two after the first test, all the while lifting just as heavy as before. I'm making one fair assumption here, that no lean mass was lost as a result.
Bulk started March 18th, weight gain ended July 14th @ 154 lbs.
That's 16 weeks. I maintained for about a month after that then started cutting again. Then I got my body comp tested again... today.
Miscellaneous Notes:
Average Calorie Surplus: Unknown (went a few stretches binging on ice cream though lol, and I love ribs...) I didn't start gaining weight until I started shooting for 2,750 though.
I basically ate the same things every day though pretty much, with dinner and desert meals being the real wild card (chicken and veggies v. full rack of ribs and/or ice cream). I estimate that I was eating between 2,300 and 3,200 calories on a given day... average... (this scared me), is exactly 2,750. That said, this average is seriously unverifiable, and likely way inaccurate.
That's about 387 calories above my actual maintenance.
Fun Facts:
Gained 0.5 inches circumference in my right arm flexed. Hit this number at about Week 16. Only hit biceps directly once a week. DB Hammer Curls & Barbell Curls, 3x12 each. Triceps the same with dips and pushdowns.
I rest 2 minutes between EVERY set of every exercise (with the exception of short movements like calves and traps, 1min), and I do not do supersets, or drop sets, or anything like that.
So that's all the information I can think to share. Let me know if you have any other questions, I would be happy to go back and look at my numbers if it will help give you some perspective.
0
Replies
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*bump*0
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Bumped for my FL - good read.
TL;DR: gains show at slightly less than 1 lb per week to be about 54% LBM but even that shows a decrease/maintain in %bf.
Nice example on why bulks are important to reducing bf%.0 -
how long have you been training for?
That is exceptional LBM increase IMO.
After training for about 4 years myself, if I could add 6.5lbs in 16 weeks I would be ecstatic!
Thanks for the thread.
I suppose it is important to mention that even the bod pods aren't 100% accurate though, I don't think any measurement method is but of the available ones we have it is one of the best.0 -
I suppose it is important to mention that even the bod pods aren't 100% accurate though, I don't think any measurement method is but of the available ones we have it is one of the best.
Autopsy!
...and bump.0 -
Great thread. Thanks for providing your data to us!0
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Yeah I made a point of mentioning that it's not perfect, but since it's the best way to test for it, I made a decision to accept the numbers. In the long term (a couple years) it won't matter so much, but for right now it's good to know how things are progressing.
I started lifting back in Nov, so these are still noob gains I guess, but even still it was a dirty bulk (possibly could have gained more relative to fat if I were better about that?).
Mostly I posted this to give less experianced guys some perspective and guidance, and cut through the bull**** 3:1 muscle gain ratios that some guys talk about. I also mentioned my program so they have detail on what I did in the gym to achieve it.
For the record though, the .5 /lb gain rate was what I had expected actually, as the most conservative and reasonable gain rate I found online before the bulk... so it's true.0 -
good stuff mate and that makes sense re your training experience.
In a perfect world we would just add LBM and lose 100% fat. Unfortunately, not the case.
Just about spot on with this model.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html0 -
Hey bro, good info. Going through a bulking cycle and adding some muscle mass while maintaining your BF% is really pretty good. What exactly are you doing? Have you tried carb back-loading?0
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Nothing man, it was a pretty dirty bulk. Plenty of cheeseburgers on the weekends and all that. Usually for dinner though I would have some kind of chicken.
The only real constant was two scoops of whey protein in water, and a banana, before working out. I would follow that up with two cups of 1% chocolate milk after the workout as a recovery drink.
Dinner items (my diet doesn't vary enough that I couldn't just list everything I ate right here lol): Chicken, Veggies, 100% Whole Wheat Pasta, Country Crock Margerine, Rull Rack of BBQ Ribs, Ice Cream, Wendy's Cheeseburgers, Sushi, Steak, mashed potatoes, shrimp.good stuff mate and that makes sense re your training experience.
In a perfect world we would just add LBM and lose 100% fat. Unfortunately, not the case.
Just about spot on with this model.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html
Not exactly, remember I cut about 3 lbs before doing the test again, so my BF% was closer to 16% by the end of the bulk.
But yeah, even with the dirty bulk I managed a really good rate of return. Not that I would do it again without planning things better.
That said, even though I tend to binge for periods on things like ice cream or cheeseburgers, overall I was mindful of what I was eating. Just can't really be sure of how many calories I was taking in on average.0 -
edit.0
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Nothing man, it was a pretty dirty bulk. Plenty of cheeseburgers on the weekends and all that. Usually for dinner though I would have some kind of chicken.
The only real constant was two scoops of whey protein in water, and a banana, before working out. I would follow that up with two cups of 1% chocolate milk after the workout as a recovery drink.
Dinner items (my diet doesn't vary enough that I couldn't just list everything I ate right here lol): Chicken, Veggies, 100% Whole Wheat Pasta, Country Crock Margerine, Rull Rack of BBQ Ribs, Ice Cream, Wendy's Cheeseburgers, Sushi, Steak, mashed potatoes, shrimp.good stuff mate and that makes sense re your training experience.
In a perfect world we would just add LBM and lose 100% fat. Unfortunately, not the case.
Just about spot on with this model.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html
Not exactly, remember I cut about 3 lbs before doing the test again, so my BF% was closer to 16% by the end of the bulk.
But yeah, even with the dirty bulk I managed a really good rate of return. Not that I would do it again without planning things better.
That said, even though I tend to binge for periods on things like ice cream or cheeseburgers, overall I was mindful of what I was eating. Just can't really be sure of how many calories I was taking in on average.
Nice. Buy the Carb Back-Loading ebook before your next bulk if you do it again. It actually encourages ****ty carbs but it's all part of the timing in which you eat them.0 -
I suppose it is important to mention that even the bod pods aren't 100% accurate though, I don't think any measurement method is but of the available ones we have it is one of the best.
Autopsy!
...and bump.
Love the PROFESSOR!
And bump here too. 0 -
I suppose it is important to mention that even the bod pods aren't 100% accurate though, I don't think any measurement method is but of the available ones we have it is one of the best.
Autopsy!
...and bump.
Love the PROFESSOR! And bump here too.
Awww, thanks! Just don't ask me to make a radio out of a coconut.0 -
Great numbers, very impressive! BTW, if you want the gold standard/most accurate in body fat testing, go find a place that does DEXA scan. That blows all other methods out of the water.0
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bump0
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Great numbers, very impressive! BTW, if you want the gold standard/most accurate in body fat testing, go find a place that does DEXA scan. That blows all other methods out of the water.
I had never heard of this, but after looking it up, its not available in my area anyhow.0 -
Good results.0
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Nothing man, it was a pretty dirty bulk. Plenty of cheeseburgers on the weekends and all that. Usually for dinner though I would have some kind of chicken.
The only real constant was two scoops of whey protein in water, and a banana, before working out. I would follow that up with two cups of 1% chocolate milk after the workout as a recovery drink.
Dinner items (my diet doesn't vary enough that I couldn't just list everything I ate right here lol): Chicken, Veggies, 100% Whole Wheat Pasta, Country Crock Margerine, Rull Rack of BBQ Ribs, Ice Cream, Wendy's Cheeseburgers, Sushi, Steak, mashed potatoes, shrimp.good stuff mate and that makes sense re your training experience.
In a perfect world we would just add LBM and lose 100% fat. Unfortunately, not the case.
Just about spot on with this model.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html
Not exactly, remember I cut about 3 lbs before doing the test again, so my BF% was closer to 16% by the end of the bulk.
But yeah, even with the dirty bulk I managed a really good rate of return. Not that I would do it again without planning things better.
That said, even though I tend to binge for periods on things like ice cream or cheeseburgers, overall I was mindful of what I was eating. Just can't really be sure of how many calories I was taking in on average.
Nice. Buy the Carb Back-Loading ebook before your next bulk if you do it again. It actually encourages ****ty carbs but it's all part of the timing in which you eat them.
on that topic
http://cdnutritionandfitness.com/is-carb-backloading-the-ultimate-diet/
I'm also currently self experimenting with it now. Only 1 week in though. And the premise of eating lots of "junk" is pretty much only possible for very big guys. (also, fat should be limited which doesn't make it anywhere near as much fun :laugh:)0 -
Nothing man, it was a pretty dirty bulk. Plenty of cheeseburgers on the weekends and all that. Usually for dinner though I would have some kind of chicken.
The only real constant was two scoops of whey protein in water, and a banana, before working out. I would follow that up with two cups of 1% chocolate milk after the workout as a recovery drink.
Dinner items (my diet doesn't vary enough that I couldn't just list everything I ate right here lol): Chicken, Veggies, 100% Whole Wheat Pasta, Country Crock Margerine, Rull Rack of BBQ Ribs, Ice Cream, Wendy's Cheeseburgers, Sushi, Steak, mashed potatoes, shrimp.good stuff mate and that makes sense re your training experience.
In a perfect world we would just add LBM and lose 100% fat. Unfortunately, not the case.
Just about spot on with this model.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html
Not exactly, remember I cut about 3 lbs before doing the test again, so my BF% was closer to 16% by the end of the bulk.
But yeah, even with the dirty bulk I managed a really good rate of return. Not that I would do it again without planning things better.
That said, even though I tend to binge for periods on things like ice cream or cheeseburgers, overall I was mindful of what I was eating. Just can't really be sure of how many calories I was taking in on average.
Nice. Buy the Carb Back-Loading ebook before your next bulk if you do it again. It actually encourages ****ty carbs but it's all part of the timing in which you eat them.
on that topic
http://cdnutritionandfitness.com/is-carb-backloading-the-ultimate-diet/
I'm also currently self experimenting with it now. Only 1 week in though. And the premise of eating lots of "junk" is pretty much only possible for very big guys. (also, fat should be limited which doesn't make it anywhere near as much fun :laugh:)
Chris, I'd love to hear your experience with it and how you're managing CBL.. I started it a couple weeks ago and I actually use the macros based on what Lyle McDonald suggested in one of his books. Because I lift in the morning I train fasted, so the night before is when I consume most, if not all, of my carbs. Some of my carbs do consist of Pop Tarts but I try and get some sweet potatoes or some good carbs in as well.0 -
You know, without noticing it this is basically what I've been doing this whole time. I'll eat 2-3 oz of pasta most nights, or 3 servings of veggies, with a protein.
Don't workout in the morning though, but just naturally my eating habits favor a larger dinner.0 -
Hey man what are you eating throughou the day if you're eating all your carbs at night?0
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Hey man what are you eating throughou the day if you're eating all your carbs at night?
Not carbs. LOL. Here's what my typical day looks like if I'm lifting tomorrow. I don't have my log in front of me so I can't quote measurements but this will give you a general idea.
Morning:
Whey x 2 servings
Coconut Oil x 1 TBSP
Snack:
Almonds
Lunch:
Baked chicken breast
Green vegetable: Usually Zucchini or Broccoli
Snack 2:
Whey x 2 servings
Dinner:
Steak (lean cut)
Sweet Potatoes (works out to about 40 grams of carbs)
Pop Tarts x 4
Chocolate Milk x 1/2 gallon (I just started drinking it this week)
Since CBL actually recommends ****ty carbs I don't worry about the Pop Tarts all that much. If I notice too much bloat or fat gain I may cut that back and replace with more sweet potatoes, TBD.
Today's diet since I'm not working out tomorrow:
Post workout
Whey x 2 servings
Coconut Oil x 2 TBSP's
Almond butter x 1 serving
Snack
Almonds x 84 grams
Lunch
Chicken breast x 200grams
Zucchini / Squash (I really don't measure veggies, minimal carbs)
Snack:
Tomato & Avoacdo salad with balsamic vinegrette
Whey x 2 servings
Dinner (haven't decided yet)
Steak
Sweet Potatoes (about 20grams of carbs worth)
Zucchini or Broccoli0 -
Tagging to read tomorrow.0
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bump because learning is fun0
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bump because learning is fundamental0
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Looking good playa.
Keep up with your macros and get the most out of ur noob gains!0 -
Just keep in mind that your fat-free mass includes bone, water, the meal you ate last night, etc. It's not all muscle.0
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Bump. Great job!0
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Just keep in mind that your fat-free mass includes bone, water, the meal you ate last night, etc. It's not all muscle.
Right, but I was careful about this as well. On both occasions when I was tested, I weighed in at a 7 day low. While I was due to weigh as much as I did on both occasions, I rarely weigh in at my true "current" weight due to meals and water. So basically the weight from both were minimized.0 -
No dunk tanks/air pods available in our area, but I notice that once I hit 15% body fat & lower, my weight starts going up...so far only about 6 lbs more, but I'd say if someone's body fat continues to drop, but their weight goes up, it's safe to say it's muscle. Especially if you can see improvements in how your body looks & how your clothes fit.0
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