These are disgusting

Unknown

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Unknown

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Laces_0ut

Nice to be open minded and believe in free speech...just one correction - being gay is not a choice. Nobody just hits their pre-teens and decides to be attracted to the same sex. If people could choose, a lot of gay/lesbian/bisexual people would not be so because of the bullying, judgement and violence many have dealt with.

There are many factors that could sway a person's lifestyle choice. MANY! One of them may be genetic but one thing is certain and that is that there is not one single factor that determines a person's sexual orientation. Again, there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation.

So you need to check your facts before making correcitons/ And, when you boil it down, EVERYTHING we do, whether is sexual orientation or eating carbs, is a choice!!

sure there may be a very tiny percentage who choose a gay lifestyle but for the overwhelming majority it is not a choice and to think otherwise is foolish.

Unknown

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Laces_0ut

Nice to be open minded and believe in free speech...just one correction - being gay is not a choice. Nobody just hits their pre-teens and decides to be attracted to the same sex. If people could choose, a lot of gay/lesbian/bisexual people would not be so because of the bullying, judgement and violence many have dealt with.

There are many factors that could sway a person's lifestyle choice. MANY! One of them may be genetic but one thing is certain and that is that there is not one single factor that determines a person's sexual orientation. Again, there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation.

So you need to check your facts before making correcitons/ And, when you boil it down, EVERYTHING we do, whether is sexual orientation or eating carbs, is a choice!!

sure there may be a very tiny percentage who choose a gay lifestyle but for the overwhelming majority it is not a choice and to think otherwise is foolish.

Until you provide scientific evidence, your statement reeks of arrogance. My comments were based on scientific studies. Those studies confirmed that there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation. And its not a tiny percentage or a overwhelming majority. They simply don't know.

yours reeks of ignorance.

VeganLexi

Nice to be open minded and believe in free speech...just one correction - being gay is not a choice. Nobody just hits their pre-teens and decides to be attracted to the same sex. If people could choose, a lot of gay/lesbian/bisexual people would not be so because of the bullying, judgement and violence many have dealt with.

There are many factors that could sway a person's lifestyle choice. MANY! One of them may be genetic but one thing is certain and that is that there is not one single factor that determines a person's sexual orientation. Again, there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation.

So you need to check your facts before making correcitons/ And, when you boil it down, EVERYTHING we do, whether is sexual orientation or eating carbs, is a choice!!

sure there may be a very tiny percentage who choose a gay lifestyle but for the overwhelming majority it is not a choice and to think otherwise is foolish.

Until you provide scientific evidence, your statement reeks of arrogance. My comments were based on scientific studies. Those studies confirmed that there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation. And its not a tiny percentage or a overwhelming majority. They simply don't know.

Which scientific studies? Just curious.

TwinkieDong

http://www.snopes.com/politics/sexuality/salvationarmy.asp

Gotta love the hype!!! Not that snopes is the one all be all, but generally that is where people go to discredit things.

UsedToBeHusky

You know... I get hung up on the whole "choice" debate.

On one hand, I know and realize that it is difficult, and often times painful, to deny a particular aspect of your personality, but then again, I know men who are obviously gay, but completely deny it, and at least according to them, live a heterosexual lifestyle.

Maybe it is just denial, and maybe they are unhappy or unsatisfied with their lives, but they choose a heterosexual lifestyle just the same.

I'm not saying anyone should ever have to live that way, but at the same time, I'm not making that choice for them.

Maybe they make that choice because of societal pressure, and in that case, I agree that society needs to change their views. But those who are actively denying their homosexuality, and pursuing a heterosexual lifestyle, are still making that choice.

doorki

Nice to be open minded and believe in free speech...just one correction - being gay is not a choice. Nobody just hits their pre-teens and decides to be attracted to the same sex. If people could choose, a lot of gay/lesbian/bisexual people would not be so because of the bullying, judgement and violence many have dealt with.

There are many factors that could sway a person's lifestyle choice. MANY! One of them may be genetic but one thing is certain and that is that there is not one single factor that determines a person's sexual orientation. Again, there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation.

So you need to check your facts before making correcitons/ And, when you boil it down, EVERYTHING we do, whether is sexual orientation or eating carbs, is a choice!!

sure there may be a very tiny percentage who choose a gay lifestyle but for the overwhelming majority it is not a choice and to think otherwise is foolish.

Until you provide scientific evidence, your statement reeks of arrogance. My comments were based on scientific studies. Those studies confirmed that there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation. And its not a tiny percentage or a overwhelming majority. They simply don't know.

You made no scientific points. Your statement pretty much sums up to, "A lot of things influence each other." Allow me to ask you this, at what age did you choose your particular sexual orientation? What was your thought process?

doorki

You know... I get hung up on the whole "choice" debate.

On one hand, I know and realize that it is difficul, and often times painful, to deny a particular aspect of your personality, but then again, I know men who are obviously gay, but completely deny it, and at least according to them, live a heterosexual lifestyle.

Maybe it is just denial, and maybe they are unhappy or unsatisfied with their lives, but they choose a heterosexual lifestyle just the same.

I'm not saying anyone should ever have to live that way, but at the same time, I'm not making that choice for them.

Maybe they make that choice because of societal pressure, and in that case, I agree that society needs to change their views. But those who are actively denying their homosexuality, and pursuing a heterosexual lifestyle, are still making that choice.

But they are, as you put it, "obviously gay." This means that the choice they are making is to act on their natural inclination rather than choosing to have said inclination.

taunto

Nice to be open minded and believe in free speech...just one correction - being gay is not a choice. Nobody just hits their pre-teens and decides to be attracted to the same sex. If people could choose, a lot of gay/lesbian/bisexual people would not be so because of the bullying, judgement and violence many have dealt with.

There are many factors that could sway a person's lifestyle choice. MANY! One of them may be genetic but one thing is certain and that is that there is not one single factor that determines a person's sexual orientation. Again, there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation.

So you need to check your facts before making correcitons/ And, when you boil it down, EVERYTHING we do, whether is sexual orientation or eating carbs, is a choice!!

sure there may be a very tiny percentage who choose a gay lifestyle but for the overwhelming majority it is not a choice and to think otherwise is foolish.

Until you provide scientific evidence, your statement reeks of arrogance. My comments were based on scientific studies. Those studies confirmed that there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation. And its not a tiny percentage or a overwhelming majority. They simply don't know.

I like to think I have a beautiful penis. But I have not yet seen any penis besides mine which I find so pretty that I look at it and go "OMG! I MUST have it inside me!" or "oh hey! I know I am a straight man but I wonder how it tastes like".

So yes, maybe its a choice, maybe you're born with it. Who cares. I choose to eat pecan pie and choose to not like Apple pie? Since when is a choice illegal? I mean, you're not harming anyone else with either choice of being straight or gay so... whats it to you? Nobody has to prove anything to anyone scientifically. Atheists don't have to prove to others that God don't exists. Believers don't have to prove that God does exist. Gays don't have to prove that its a choice or not. People should just let be.

firstsip

Nice to be open minded and believe in free speech...just one correction - being gay is not a choice. Nobody just hits their pre-teens and decides to be attracted to the same sex. If people could choose, a lot of gay/lesbian/bisexual people would not be so because of the bullying, judgement and violence many have dealt with.

There are many factors that could sway a person's lifestyle choice. MANY! One of them may be genetic but one thing is certain and that is that there is not one single factor that determines a person's sexual orientation. Again, there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation.

So you need to check your facts before making correcitons/ And, when you boil it down, EVERYTHING we do, whether is sexual orientation or eating carbs, is a choice!!

sure there may be a very tiny percentage who choose a gay lifestyle but for the overwhelming majority it is not a choice and to think otherwise is foolish.

Until you provide scientific evidence, your statement reeks of arrogance. My comments were based on scientific studies. Those studies confirmed that there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation. And its not a tiny percentage or a overwhelming majority. They simply don't know.

You didn't read the studies that show a variety of factors influence sexuality, including genetic and hormonal factors? Most things are not nurture vs. nature--it's a whole lot of both.

Plus, in regards to first article: Salvation Army definitely has a legitimate track record for discrimination against homosexuality (in both employees and giving aid), but I'm pretty sure the "kill the gays" was literally one person saying something once and it got slapped to the whole organization.

Wait, why am I in here.

Unknown

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UsedToBeHusky

You know... I get hung up on the whole "choice" debate.

On one hand, I know and realize that it is difficul, and often times painful, to deny a particular aspect of your personality, but then again, I know men who are obviously gay, but completely deny it, and at least according to them, live a heterosexual lifestyle.

Maybe it is just denial, and maybe they are unhappy or unsatisfied with their lives, but they choose a heterosexual lifestyle just the same.

I'm not saying anyone should ever have to live that way, but at the same time, I'm not making that choice for them.

Maybe they make that choice because of societal pressure, and in that case, I agree that society needs to change their views. But those who are actively denying their homosexuality, and pursuing a heterosexual lifestyle, are still making that choice.

But they are, as you put it, "obviously gay." This means that the choice they are making is to act on their natural inclination rather than choosing to have said inclination.

Yeah, but that's what I mean (and at this point, it should probably be obvious that I am thinking of someone in particular that I know in IRL).

He is choosing to not be gay. So it's not that a choice does not exist. But like I said from the beginning, I do not believe anyone should have to go against their own nature, but this particular individual feels that he has to (he's actually a pastor so its probably due to his own religious beliefs more than anything). But at the same time, he's a diva and he's single.

I do think it's sad that he feels it necessary, but I still have to respect his choice. This is why I struggle with the "choice" debate.

*edited to add - It's this man's effiminate behaviors which leads to a suspicion of his homosexuality, and I am not the only person that has perceived it.

RivenV

Nice to be open minded and believe in free speech...just one correction - being gay is not a choice. Nobody just hits their pre-teens and decides to be attracted to the same sex. If people could choose, a lot of gay/lesbian/bisexual people would not be so because of the bullying, judgement and violence many have dealt with.

There are many factors that could sway a person's lifestyle choice. MANY! One of them may be genetic but one thing is certain and that is that there is not one single factor that determines a person's sexual orientation. Again, there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation.

So you need to check your facts before making correcitons/ And, when you boil it down, EVERYTHING we do, whether is sexual orientation or eating carbs, is a choice!!

sure there may be a very tiny percentage who choose a gay lifestyle but for the overwhelming majority it is not a choice and to think otherwise is foolish.

Until you provide scientific evidence, your statement reeks of arrogance. My comments were based on scientific studies. Those studies confirmed that there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation. And its not a tiny percentage or a overwhelming majority. They simply don't know.

I like to think I have a beautiful penis. But I have not yet seen any penis besides mine which I find so pretty that I look at it and go "OMG! I MUST have it inside me!" or "oh hey! I know I am a straight man but I wonder how it tastes like".

So yes, maybe its a choice, maybe you're born with it. Who cares. I choose to eat pecan pie and choose to not like Apple pie? Since when is a choice illegal? I mean, you're not harming anyone else with either choice of being straight or gay so... whats it to you? Nobody has to prove anything to anyone scientifically. Atheists don't have to prove to others that God don't exists. Believers don't have to prove that God does exist. Gays don't have to prove that its a choice or not. People should just let be.

Because then we have to have weird and awkward conversations with our kids! Think of the children! THE CHILLREN!!1!21!!three

taunto

Nice to be open minded and believe in free speech...just one correction - being gay is not a choice. Nobody just hits their pre-teens and decides to be attracted to the same sex. If people could choose, a lot of gay/lesbian/bisexual people would not be so because of the bullying, judgement and violence many have dealt with.

There are many factors that could sway a person's lifestyle choice. MANY! One of them may be genetic but one thing is certain and that is that there is not one single factor that determines a person's sexual orientation. Again, there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation.

So you need to check your facts before making correcitons/ And, when you boil it down, EVERYTHING we do, whether is sexual orientation or eating carbs, is a choice!!

sure there may be a very tiny percentage who choose a gay lifestyle but for the overwhelming majority it is not a choice and to think otherwise is foolish.

Until you provide scientific evidence, your statement reeks of arrogance. My comments were based on scientific studies. Those studies confirmed that there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation. And its not a tiny percentage or a overwhelming majority. They simply don't know.

I like to think I have a beautiful penis. But I have not yet seen any penis besides mine which I find so pretty that I look at it and go "OMG! I MUST have it inside me!" or "oh hey! I know I am a straight man but I wonder how it tastes like".

So yes, maybe its a choice, maybe you're born with it. Who cares. I choose to eat pecan pie and choose to not like Apple pie? Since when is a choice illegal? I mean, you're not harming anyone else with either choice of being straight or gay so... whats it to you? Nobody has to prove anything to anyone scientifically. Atheists don't have to prove to others that God don't exists. Believers don't have to prove that God does exist. Gays don't have to prove that its a choice or not. People should just let be.

Because then we have to have weird and awkward conversations with our kids! Think of the children! THE CHILLREN!!1!21!!three

damnet I can't post luois CK quote without getting a strike for it

firstsip

You know... I get hung up on the whole "choice" debate.

On one hand, I know and realize that it is difficul, and often times painful, to deny a particular aspect of your personality, but then again, I know men who are obviously gay, but completely deny it, and at least according to them, live a heterosexual lifestyle.

Maybe it is just denial, and maybe they are unhappy or unsatisfied with their lives, but they choose a heterosexual lifestyle just the same.

I'm not saying anyone should ever have to live that way, but at the same time, I'm not making that choice for them.

Maybe they make that choice because of societal pressure, and in that case, I agree that society needs to change their views. But those who are actively denying their homosexuality, and pursuing a heterosexual lifestyle, are still making that choice.

But they are, as you put it, "obviously gay." This means that the choice they are making is to act on their natural inclination rather than choosing to have said inclination.

Yeah, but that's what I mean (and at this point, it should probably be obvious that I am thinking of someone in particular that I know in IRL).

He is choosing to not be gay. So it's not that a choice does not exist. But like I said from the beginning, I do not believe anyone should have to go against their own nature, but this particular individual feels that he has to (he's actually a pastor so its probably due to his own religious beliefs more than anything). But at the same time, he's a diva and he's single.

I do think it's sad that he feels it necessary, but I still have to respect his choice. This is why I struggle with the "choice" debate.

He's not choosing to "not be gay"; he's choosing who he marries/sleeps with/etc. He's choosing an opposite-sex partner, not choosing his orientation.

You can go against natural inclinations all the time, for varying reasons. That doesn't mean it's actively choosing a "new" inclination.

Unknown

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TheSlorax

You know... I get hung up on the whole "choice" debate.

On one hand, I know and realize that it is difficult, and often times painful, to deny a particular aspect of your personality, but then again, I know men who are obviously gay, but completely deny it, and at least according to them, live a heterosexual lifestyle.

Maybe it is just denial, and maybe they are unhappy or unsatisfied with their lives, but they choose a heterosexual lifestyle just the same.

I'm not saying anyone should ever have to live that way, but at the same time, I'm not making that choice for them.

Maybe they make that choice because of societal pressure, and in that case, I agree that society needs to change their views. But those who are actively denying their homosexuality, and pursuing a heterosexual lifestyle, are still making that choice.

in this scenario their choice is to live a heterosexual lifestyle. they still have a natural and genetic sexual attraction to the same sex.

RivenV

Nice to be open minded and believe in free speech...just one correction - being gay is not a choice. Nobody just hits their pre-teens and decides to be attracted to the same sex. If people could choose, a lot of gay/lesbian/bisexual people would not be so because of the bullying, judgement and violence many have dealt with.

There are many factors that could sway a person's lifestyle choice. MANY! One of them may be genetic but one thing is certain and that is that there is not one single factor that determines a person's sexual orientation. Again, there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation.

So you need to check your facts before making correcitons/ And, when you boil it down, EVERYTHING we do, whether is sexual orientation or eating carbs, is a choice!!

sure there may be a very tiny percentage who choose a gay lifestyle but for the overwhelming majority it is not a choice and to think otherwise is foolish.

Until you provide scientific evidence, your statement reeks of arrogance. My comments were based on scientific studies. Those studies confirmed that there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation. And its not a tiny percentage or a overwhelming majority. They simply don't know.

I like to think I have a beautiful penis. But I have not yet seen any penis besides mine which I find so pretty that I look at it and go "OMG! I MUST have it inside me!" or "oh hey! I know I am a straight man but I wonder how it tastes like".

So yes, maybe its a choice, maybe you're born with it. Who cares. I choose to eat pecan pie and choose to not like Apple pie? Since when is a choice illegal? I mean, you're not harming anyone else with either choice of being straight or gay so... whats it to you? Nobody has to prove anything to anyone scientifically. Atheists don't have to prove to others that God don't exists. Believers don't have to prove that God does exist. Gays don't have to prove that its a choice or not. People should just let be.

Because then we have to have weird and awkward conversations with our kids! Think of the children! THE CHILLREN!!1!21!!three

damnet I can't post luois CK quote without getting a strike for it

That's alright. I know the exact quote you're thinking about... because it's the same one I was thinking about when I posted. :P Get out of my head, Taunto!

Mr_Bad_Example

Looking for something to do today? Start an internet fight!

fitfreakymom

well according to the news on tv target is in talks with the legion as to where the vets will be allowed to set up to sell their poppies.

yesterday they wanted them outside.

TheSlorax

You know... I get hung up on the whole "choice" debate.

On one hand, I know and realize that it is difficul, and often times painful, to deny a particular aspect of your personality, but then again, I know men who are obviously gay, but completely deny it, and at least according to them, live a heterosexual lifestyle.

Maybe it is just denial, and maybe they are unhappy or unsatisfied with their lives, but they choose a heterosexual lifestyle just the same.

I'm not saying anyone should ever have to live that way, but at the same time, I'm not making that choice for them.

Maybe they make that choice because of societal pressure, and in that case, I agree that society needs to change their views. But those who are actively denying their homosexuality, and pursuing a heterosexual lifestyle, are still making that choice.

But they are, as you put it, "obviously gay." This means that the choice they are making is to act on their natural inclination rather than choosing to have said inclination.

Yeah, but that's what I mean (and at this point, it should probably be obvious that I am thinking of someone in particular that I know in IRL).

He is choosing to not be gay. So it's not that a choice does not exist. But like I said from the beginning, I do not believe anyone should have to go against their own nature, but this particular individual feels that he has to (he's actually a pastor so its probably due to his own religious beliefs more than anything). But at the same time, he's a diva and he's single.

I do think it's sad that he feels it necessary, but I still have to respect his choice. This is why I struggle with the "choice" debate.

He's not choosing to "not be gay"; he's choosing who he marries/sleeps with/etc. He's choosing an opposite-sex partner, not choosing his orientation.

You can go against natural inclinations all the time, for varying reasons. That doesn't mean it's actively choosing a "new" inclination.

beat me to it. you said yourself he's still gay (or, sorry, "effeminate") despite not actively participating in same sex relationships. how is he making any choice other than to not have public relationships with other men?

the bottom line is that he is going against his natural born urges. any arguments over whether he is "able" to make his "choice" will devolve into semantics.

Laces_0ut

Nice to be open minded and believe in free speech...just one correction - being gay is not a choice. Nobody just hits their pre-teens and decides to be attracted to the same sex. If people could choose, a lot of gay/lesbian/bisexual people would not be so because of the bullying, judgement and violence many have dealt with.

There are many factors that could sway a person's lifestyle choice. MANY! One of them may be genetic but one thing is certain and that is that there is not one single factor that determines a person's sexual orientation. Again, there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation.

So you need to check your facts before making correcitons/ And, when you boil it down, EVERYTHING we do, whether is sexual orientation or eating carbs, is a choice!!

sure there may be a very tiny percentage who choose a gay lifestyle but for the overwhelming majority it is not a choice and to think otherwise is foolish.

Until you provide scientific evidence, your statement reeks of arrogance. My comments were based on scientific studies. Those studies confirmed that there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation. And its not a tiny percentage or a overwhelming majority. They simply don't know.

You made no scientific points. Your statement pretty much sums up to, "A lot of things influence each other." Allow me to ask you this, at what age did you choose your particular sexual orientation? What was your thought process?

I am not obligated to make scientific points. I'm not the scientist. I was referring to scientific studies that have been done on the matter. If you have an issue with the studies, take it up with them not me.

those studies are dubious at best. why dont you link them?

lots of people try to explain homosexuality in a light that allows them to deny their ability to marry among other restrictions.

doorki

Nice to be open minded and believe in free speech...just one correction - being gay is not a choice. Nobody just hits their pre-teens and decides to be attracted to the same sex. If people could choose, a lot of gay/lesbian/bisexual people would not be so because of the bullying, judgement and violence many have dealt with.

There are many factors that could sway a person's lifestyle choice. MANY! One of them may be genetic but one thing is certain and that is that there is not one single factor that determines a person's sexual orientation. Again, there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation.

So you need to check your facts before making correcitons/ And, when you boil it down, EVERYTHING we do, whether is sexual orientation or eating carbs, is a choice!!

sure there may be a very tiny percentage who choose a gay lifestyle but for the overwhelming majority it is not a choice and to think otherwise is foolish.

Until you provide scientific evidence, your statement reeks of arrogance. My comments were based on scientific studies. Those studies confirmed that there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation. And its not a tiny percentage or a overwhelming majority. They simply don't know.

You made no scientific points. Your statement pretty much sums up to, "A lot of things influence each other." Allow me to ask you this, at what age did you choose your particular sexual orientation? What was your thought process?

I am not obligated to make scientific points. I'm not the scientist. I was referring to scientific studies that have been done on the matter. If you have an issue with the studies, take it up with them not me.

So...you make a comment with no scientific references, tell someone taking issue with your comment that they need to provide scientific evidence to refute your comment, then when it is pointed out that you referenced no scientific studies you tell them to take it up with the scientists because you do not need to make scientific points. Brilliant!

doorki

You know... I get hung up on the whole "choice" debate.

On one hand, I know and realize that it is difficul, and often times painful, to deny a particular aspect of your personality, but then again, I know men who are obviously gay, but completely deny it, and at least according to them, live a heterosexual lifestyle.

Maybe it is just denial, and maybe they are unhappy or unsatisfied with their lives, but they choose a heterosexual lifestyle just the same.

I'm not saying anyone should ever have to live that way, but at the same time, I'm not making that choice for them.

Maybe they make that choice because of societal pressure, and in that case, I agree that society needs to change their views. But those who are actively denying their homosexuality, and pursuing a heterosexual lifestyle, are still making that choice.

But they are, as you put it, "obviously gay." This means that the choice they are making is to act on their natural inclination rather than choosing to have said inclination.

Yeah, but that's what I mean (and at this point, it should probably be obvious that I am thinking of someone in particular that I know in IRL).

He is choosing to not be gay. So it's not that a choice does not exist. But like I said from the beginning, I do not believe anyone should have to go against their own nature, but this particular individual feels that he has to (he's actually a pastor so its probably due to his own religious beliefs more than anything). But at the same time, he's a diva and he's single.

I do think it's sad that he feels it necessary, but I still have to respect his choice. This is why I struggle with the "choice" debate.

He's not choosing to "not be gay"; he's choosing who he marries/sleeps with/etc. He's choosing an opposite-sex partner, not choosing his orientation.

You can go against natural inclinations all the time, for varying reasons. That doesn't mean it's actively choosing a "new" inclination.

DING DING DING!

UsedToBeHusky

You know... I get hung up on the whole "choice" debate.

On one hand, I know and realize that it is difficul, and often times painful, to deny a particular aspect of your personality, but then again, I know men who are obviously gay, but completely deny it, and at least according to them, live a heterosexual lifestyle.

Maybe it is just denial, and maybe they are unhappy or unsatisfied with their lives, but they choose a heterosexual lifestyle just the same.

I'm not saying anyone should ever have to live that way, but at the same time, I'm not making that choice for them.

Maybe they make that choice because of societal pressure, and in that case, I agree that society needs to change their views. But those who are actively denying their homosexuality, and pursuing a heterosexual lifestyle, are still making that choice.

But they are, as you put it, "obviously gay." This means that the choice they are making is to act on their natural inclination rather than choosing to have said inclination.

Yeah, but that's what I mean (and at this point, it should probably be obvious that I am thinking of someone in particular that I know in IRL).

He is choosing to not be gay. So it's not that a choice does not exist. But like I said from the beginning, I do not believe anyone should have to go against their own nature, but this particular individual feels that he has to (he's actually a pastor so its probably due to his own religious beliefs more than anything). But at the same time, he's a diva and he's single.

I do think it's sad that he feels it necessary, but I still have to respect his choice. This is why I struggle with the "choice" debate.

He's not choosing to "not be gay"; he's choosing who he marries/sleeps with/etc. He's choosing an opposite-sex partner, not choosing his orientation.

You can go against natural inclinations all the time, for varying reasons. That doesn't mean it's actively choosing a "new" inclination.

I mean, I can see where you are coming from. Even though, he is choosing to deny it, he still is because otherwise it wouldn't be apparent to the world.

But it's still a choice that he has made about his sexuality, which is the heart of the debate, right?


I don't know... it hurts my head.

fitfreakymom

i have no problem with the gym banning a PTSD dog from entering. that could be a huge safety issue. and i know i dont a dog walking around while im lifting weights.

but it's not the DOG that has PTSD, the dog calms the guy down when he triggers from a PTSD. It's essentially a service dog...

These types of dogs are trained to go and check out rooms, toilet stalls, showers ect so that the person with PTSD feels safe entering the building, we are friends with people who have PTSD and one is bad enough that when he is sleeping you do not wake him as because you will get hurt and he has a big issue with crowds and it takes everything he has to be able to go shopping or to a park or any other place that we take for granted. We had a neighbour that was a retired vet and he needed a special light in his house for him to sit at and they needed to remove all weapons from his house when had a meltdown and thought that he was back in the war and thought he was surrounded by Germans and thought his wife was the enemy. Neighbours went in and calmed him down and removed all weapons. It is a heartbreaking and sometimes terrifying disorder that the person has little control over.

VeganLexi

Nice to be open minded and believe in free speech...just one correction - being gay is not a choice. Nobody just hits their pre-teens and decides to be attracted to the same sex. If people could choose, a lot of gay/lesbian/bisexual people would not be so because of the bullying, judgement and violence many have dealt with.

There are many factors that could sway a person's lifestyle choice. MANY! One of them may be genetic but one thing is certain and that is that there is not one single factor that determines a person's sexual orientation. Again, there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation.

So you need to check your facts before making correcitons/ And, when you boil it down, EVERYTHING we do, whether is sexual orientation or eating carbs, is a choice!!

sure there may be a very tiny percentage who choose a gay lifestyle but for the overwhelming majority it is not a choice and to think otherwise is foolish.

Until you provide scientific evidence, your statement reeks of arrogance. My comments were based on scientific studies. Those studies confirmed that there is not one single factor that that determines a person's sexual orientation. And its not a tiny percentage or a overwhelming majority. They simply don't know.

You made no scientific points. Your statement pretty much sums up to, "A lot of things influence each other." Allow me to ask you this, at what age did you choose your particular sexual orientation? What was your thought process?

I am not obligated to make scientific points. I'm not the scientist. I was referring to scientific studies that have been done on the matter. If you have an issue with the studies, take it up with them not me.

So...you make a comment with no scientific references, tell someone taking issue with your comment that they need to provide scientific evidence to refute your comment, then when it is pointed out that you referenced no scientific studies you tell them to take it up with the scientists because you do not need to make scientific points. Brilliant!

:laugh:

doorki

You know... I get hung up on the whole "choice" debate.

On one hand, I know and realize that it is difficul, and often times painful, to deny a particular aspect of your personality, but then again, I know men who are obviously gay, but completely deny it, and at least according to them, live a heterosexual lifestyle.

Maybe it is just denial, and maybe they are unhappy or unsatisfied with their lives, but they choose a heterosexual lifestyle just the same.

I'm not saying anyone should ever have to live that way, but at the same time, I'm not making that choice for them.

Maybe they make that choice because of societal pressure, and in that case, I agree that society needs to change their views. But those who are actively denying their homosexuality, and pursuing a heterosexual lifestyle, are still making that choice.

But they are, as you put it, "obviously gay." This means that the choice they are making is to act on their natural inclination rather than choosing to have said inclination.

Yeah, but that's what I mean (and at this point, it should probably be obvious that I am thinking of someone in particular that I know in IRL).

He is choosing to not be gay. So it's not that a choice does not exist. But like I said from the beginning, I do not believe anyone should have to go against their own nature, but this particular individual feels that he has to (he's actually a pastor so its probably due to his own religious beliefs more than anything). But at the same time, he's a diva and he's single.

I do think it's sad that he feels it necessary, but I still have to respect his choice. This is why I struggle with the "choice" debate.

He's not choosing to "not be gay"; he's choosing who he marries/sleeps with/etc. He's choosing an opposite-sex partner, not choosing his orientation.

You can go against natural inclinations all the time, for varying reasons. That doesn't mean it's actively choosing a "new" inclination.

I mean, I can see where you are coming from. Even though, he is choosing to deny it, he still is because otherwise it wouldn't be apparent to the world.

But it's still a choice that he has made about his sexuality, which is the heart of the debate, right?


I don't know... it hurts my head.

Regardless of whether you can tell if he is gay or not, the fact that he is choosing to act on his inclinations does not translate into homosexuality being a choice. The reaction to societal stigma attached to being "different" is his choice, not his state.