Over-Value Exercise in Weight Loss? And More Stuff.

thedarkwombat

Total brain dump here, so bare with me.

I have been struggling with my weight loss for 10 years now. I finally am starting to have some real success. I have spent countless hours researching and studying and really only recently came to the conclusion that exercise has very little to do with weight loss. Now before everyone starts freaking out, I still feel exercise is very important. For actual weight loss however if you break it down into numbers, exercise really represents about 10% of your weight loss routine.

But over the last decade or so I have been on so many message boards and seen countless people try to lose weight and go full out on exercise and become so tired that they end up burning out, or eating too much. Yes, sometimes exercise does make you more hungry. Sometimes...

I feel that if you are obese like myself the best success can be achieved by working on one thing at a time. Firstly, master your eating habits first. Drop your first 25 or so pounds so you feel lighter and mentally better about yourself. Then slowly introduce something like walking for 20 minutes a day. That's it, all you need. You don't need to kill yourself going to the gym and going crazy with a routine that is so strenuous that it just about kills you and makes you more hungry.

I have always felt that if you are serious about wanting to be in better shape (not thin, I mean good SHAPE), then start introducing some of those harder exercises when you are closer to your goal to tone your body more.

Exercising is part of a huge industry. Now, I am not going to start talking conspiracy theories here, but look around. We are bombarded by two things? Exercising and Fast Food. Someone out there wants us to spend money on gyms, and infomercial exercise equipment while at the same time eating cheeseburgers.

And oh god, skipping breakfast, that's the moral sin of the world! Your metabolism will completely shut down and you will get heart disease! Do you think breakfast company sponsored research is ever going to tell you to eat less? Or skip? Never.

Is someone trying to keep us overweight?

CountryGirl8542

I agree with everything here except breakfast.... I think breakfast is very important..... I cannot focus in life without breakfast.

Adding to this...

I have lost 14lbs solely from having a calorie deficient... we still eat out just as often as we did before.... sometimes I think even more... I just recently starting doing cardio three days a week but more so to make me feel good ... gotta love those endorphins!

CherylP67

Weight loss is simple take in less calories than you use.

Fitness requires exercise.

It's 2 different things.

You can be healthier if you lose weight, especially if you're obese.

But, I want to be fit. I don't want to be a smaller, lumpy version of my obese self. Therefore I exercise. I did only focus on the weightloss for a while but now I focus on fitness.

Best of luck to you on your journey, I love realizing ings along the way.

CherylP67

Double post sorry

Mikej77

Diet is very high on the % chart on how to drop the fat, That is why stronglifts 5x5 got me hooked, The author didnt split the the effort up on any of the three most important things to drop weight, ( Diet/nutrition/exercise/sleep)

He said you should put 100% effort in to diet, 100% effort into exercise, and 100% effort into sleep. With anyone of the three lacking your lose can be imapcted.

Another reason I really got hooked on SL5x5 is because it is very simple to understand and only THREE days a week. Yes it is hard, yes it is lifting HEAVY. But I have to say, to totally trust a routine and know I DO NOT HAVE TO DO ANY CARDIO!! makes me look forward to the program every single workout day. I am not bashing cardio, hats off to any and all that can run for how ever many miles, or do zumba or p90x. I am happy you found something you enjoy that works for you. I am just very excited that I found stronglifts 5x5, because I love it!!

Sorry for the rant and push, but I do agree with OP, diet is very important, but consider heavy lifting. Best part is you burn more calories after 45 minutes of heavy lifting while your body repairs itself.

rileysowner

No argument here. I tend to consider exercise more of a beneficial side effect of losing weight. As people become lighter, they find activities that used to be so uncomfortable or difficult, not only become comfortable to do but easier as well.

I'm not big on conspiracies, and don't think this is the case here. Exercise is good for various reasons, but should not be seen as a way to lose weight. As for food companies, they are simply seeking to sell their products, that is how business is done. The problem is many people don't consider this. There is a reason those who purchase products are called consumers.

alisonlynn1976

Actually, I'm under the impression that "weight loss is all/mostly about food, not exercise" is part of the MFP one true wayist gospel, isn't it?

Contrary to that, I attribute most of my success to exercise, not food. I have made some changes to my eating habits, and I know this is a contributing factor, but I think I would only be maintaining my weight, not losing, without all the exercise I do. The reason this is working for me is that the calories I burn allow me to eat enough that I don't feel deprived.

Whatever works for you, great, but I disagree with the "it's not about exercise" premise in terms of what works for me.

gigglesinthesun

One issue I seem to have is that exercise increases my appetite, but it increases it disproportionately: i.e. I don't just want to eat the 200 cals I gained, I want to eat the pizza and ice cream and the wine etc and it totals to about 1500 :-) It's purely a mental thing for me.

I am here, because after my daughters birth I had some health problems. My weight was fine, but in April I thought I need to get fitter, so I started working out more and my appetite increased. Then life happened (daughter went to hospital, son had issues at school, husband needed to work a lot longer hours), so my exercise feel by the wayside, but the appetite stayed and whilst I realised that I was gaining some weight, it wasn't until I stepped on the scales in August and realised I had gained 6kg (13lbs) that I woke up.

See, I was a heavy teenager and that persisted into my mid-twenties. I then lost a lot of weight and was able to maintain that as my appetite seemed to match my maintenance calories. I have this great fear that if I don't sort it out now, I'll just get bigger and bigger again. For me to lose weight and get fit I need to exercise mostly informally i.e. take the stars not the lift, walk to the school etc, because the more formal exercise I do, the louder that voice in the back of my head (you know the one that says eat the cake come on, have another piece) and I just don't have the self-control to completely ignore it.

Koldnomore

The challenge I have seen with new folk (especially) is that they are somehow convinced that they absolutely can't lose weight if they don't become gym rats. This leads invariably to the thought that they don't have time to work out and these two thoughts together sabotage most people before they even start...How many threads do we see per day "I have no time", "I can't work out".. almost as many as "help I'm eating 1200 and not losing"

First off, you are totally right in that you absolutely do NOT have to do anything to lose weight except eat at a deficit - especially when you have a lot of weight to lose. In many respects we who have started off over 200 lbs have it easy because you would really have to work to NOT lose weight when you're that big..For me just cutting out my 4 extra large coffee (with 4 cream + 2 sugar) was enough to get the scale moving in the right direction.. Have one less serving of meals, cut back on the treats..so easy. The problem happens when your brain starts getting involved in the process and convinces you that you have to do everything all at once..throw out all the bad food, immediately join a gym, eat clean, cut carbs, lift heavy, don't eat over 1200 calories..omg your head spins from all the advice! No wonder people cant seem to make it work sometimes. It's not so complicated at all.


I am a fan of what I call 'forced exercise' as in... I get off the bus early and walk the rest of the way to work, I take the stairs up/down if I am going less than 3 floors. I run errands over lunch which force me to have to walk 'somewhere'. In an average day I do around 15,000 steps and at least 20 floors without ever having to say 'I'm going to go work out" it's all about fitting in movement where you can and you don't have to do it right away.

Start small, take baby steps - You got the picture, now don't let your brain mess it up for you

catherine190

You also have to be careful when you are obese or overweight that you don't injure yourself when you exercise or start an exercise program. You could have a lot of weight pounding on your joints if you run, for example. I think it is a good idea to take it one step at a time, if that helps you maintain the changes that you are planning.

peacemongernc

I think that for me the exercise component has been incredibly important. But it may not contradict what you are saying...

I've noticed a huge difference in my ability to control my eating habit when I exercise intensely. Going for a walk or something along those lines helps some, but intense exercise changes my relationship with food in ways I never could have anticipated. Also, there is compelling evidence that morbidly obese people's bodies will store fat more readily than other people, and compelling evidence that everyone's bodies will opt to burn muscle before fat when eating a deficit. A non-exercising person may end up with a body that requires many fewer calories, and thus also require a greater amount of self-control to maintain a lower weight after losing it.

It is certainly true that exercise is not a requirement for weight loss, but is it reasonable to assume that a non-exercising person can maintain the lower weight over a course of years? It would require a level of self-control and asceticism that is rare!

marsellient

I think one thing at a time is a good plan. Get started at diet changes and then start moving. As someone said, so many times those of us who need to lose weight think we have to go all out and it's self defeating.

For the longest time all that was ever mentioned when "experts" talked about obese children was that they needed more exercise. You know,get them away from the tv or computers or whatever. I've noticed that that is changing lately and there's more talk about proper diet.

peacemongernc

Also, I fight with food the whole day if I skip breakfast. I fight with food the whole day if breakfast isn't mostly protein!

I have food issues, so in the beginning, I wasn't willing to make many food changes. I was willing to try some exercise and see what happened. Then I was willing to swap some foods for other foods.

It really depends on where your head is, I suspect.

almc170

While it's true that exercise isn't necessary for weight loss, it provides a host of health benefits. As someone who leads an otherwise fairly sedentary lifestyle, it's helping me, among other things, maintain a healthy weight, retain lean body mass as I get older, and manage my blood pressure without medication. But YMMV.

BigGuy47

Agreed. Exercise will get you in shape. Diet will control your weight.

I have always felt that if you are serious about wanting to be in better shape (not thin, I mean good SHAPE), then start introducing some of those harder exercises when you are closer to your goal to tone your body more.

This is more or less what I did. The only difference is semantics, my wife wife is working on "toning" while I'm working on increasing my lean body mass. Men don't "tone". :laugh:

In hindsight, waiting until I was close to goal weight to ramp up my exercise level was a mistake. I should have started strength training sooner.

nikkylyn

Uum what's the point in losing weight if your losing muscle along the way. I mean yes obese is bad but no gains in muscle how does that help you still will look.and feel flubby.True diet is most important when it comes to losing weight. I think being fit is just as important as a lower number on the scale. You should def start off small if your very heavy and out of shape. Like 20 min leisurely walk a few times a week. Then increase as you become more fit. I could care less what the scale says I'm more impressed with my increase in muscle or loss in inches. Not only that exercise is good for our overall health even ppl with perfect BMI should exercise.

I think doing both diet changes and exercise at the same time is the best advice. Even better doing both cardio and weight or strength training. I think sometimes if the scale isn't moving its motivating to know you are able to add minutes to your walk or run or added weights to your strength training. I really saw changes in my body.composition once I added cardio and weights.

Amberonamission

I am losing weight easier since I stepped down the exercise. I spent years doing power90, taebo, yoga, Zumba. I do love them. Love the way I get happy after even if I wasn't before. But, my appetite would kick in like crazy. And always for carbs. So right now I am doing a 30 min walk (With short running bursts) with the dog twice a day and the Lotte Burk method (similar to the barre method) 4 times a week. I feel stronger and less hungry. So I think you are correct.

For the poster that said it was easy for 200+ people lose weight while hardly trying..... I have a few inappropriate finger gestures for you. If that were even close to true big people wouldn't be so big. :-)

thedarkwombat

Uum what's the point in losing weight if your losing muscle along the way.

You don't lose muscle from dieting unless you go way under your calorie requirements to the extreme."Not exercising", does not mean muscle loss. I have been non-active for 10 years, I haven't lost any muscle.

The point is, right now, I could still die in my sleep from sleep apnea. I could kill over from a heart attack. The point is, right now, losing weight is the most important thing in my life right now. Eating breakfast makes me hungry all....day...long. So I skip it.

I have seen people crash and burn from doing everything at once and trying to become instant gym rats. People who can't afford to crash and burn like me because I am 43 and over 300 pounds.

If I lose a bit of muscle (which is highly unlikely) it's not the end of the world. When I get closer to my goal of 240 pounds (I am 6'6" tall) I will get that muscle back. Some people think when you lose muscle it's gone for good. As i said in my post master the eating first, then add a 20 minute walk daily, etc....

Right now losing weight trumps everything, even if there is some muscle loss, which won't even happen if you don't starve yourself.

thedarkwombat

One more thing nikkylyn, I think some us don't care if we look look.and feel flubby (which we can fix later) as long as we are not dead.
You have very little weight to lose. Some of us have our life to lose...

albertine58

I agree! Excercising makes me feel good about myself, but it also makes me tired and burnt out when I go too hard. It's why I *gave up* in the spring after losing 10 lbs because I felt like I couldn't keep it up and I was *failing*. I was going to 7-8 exercise classes a week- NOT sustainable!
I've been reading psychology articles lately about how "willpower is a finite resource" and it makes complete sense to me personally! Restricting your diet, exercising etc. all use willpower. If you restrict cals a lot or exercise a lot (or some combo of both), you're mentally exhausted and it becomes harder to continue because you've run out of willpower! It can happen over a day, in weeks, in months. I haven't been exercising very much so far this time around- just some walks and jogging- and I've found it surprisingly easy to stick to my calories each day. I haven't been starving at night, I've been able to resist sampling my boyfriend's takeout- it hasn't been torture. I remember stealing his mozzarella sticks after double workout classes in the spring because resisting was driving me crazy and I couldn't think about anything else- I was out of willpower.
It's possible I might lose a little more slowly this time around, but I feel sane and like I can keep this going for a while!

minizebu

Eating breakfast makes me hungry all....day...long. So I skip it.

I don't think that the timing of when you eat your first meal of the day is as important as what you eat at the first meal of your day. A quick look at your diary, and I think that perhaps the reason that your breakfast makes you hungry all day is that you are not eating enough protein.

The RDA for protein is 0.8g protein per kilogram of body weight. That is the RDA, but a lot of folks would consider that a rock bottom goal (especially for someone eating at a deficit, or exercising to any extent).

Don't just accept the default protein percentages from MFP. MFP's default protein percentage may not provide even the minimum RDA for many obese individuals.

Run through the calculation for yourself. First convert your weight from pounds to kilograms and then multiply that by 0.8. Make sure that you are eating that amount of protein at a minimum every day. Many people here would recommend that you also calculate your lean body mass and eat 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass.

Eating a good amount of protein at your first meal of the day, at least 25g, will help you to feel full and satiated and you will not be as subject to hunger and cravings during the remainder of your day. If you eat dairy, you can get about that much protein from one cup of Greek yogurt or from one cup of cottage cheese. Protein has a dampening affect on the appetite.

I agree with you that concentrating on a caloric deficit is the most important thing in the beginning of a weight loss program. Once someone has that under control he or she can focus more attention on macronutrients, micronutrients, strength and cardiovascular fitness.

Good luck!

thedarkwombat

I have had a ton of protein in the morning at times (40g+ in one sitting) and I am still hungry all day if I eat breakfast.
There is no blueprint except the one that works for YOU.

wibutterflymagic

One more thing nikkylyn, I think some us don't care if we look look.and feel flubby (which we can fix later) as long as we are not dead.
You have very little weight to lose. Some of us have our life to lose...

I like that....it's all perspective.

@ OPosting....I agree. I do believe that exercise is important but it isn't the most important thing if you want to lose weight. I see so many of my friends on here constantly posting about all the workouts they are doing and how worn out they are between that and their life obligations and I don't understand why they are killing themselves. I wonder if they are going to keep up this routine for the rest of their lives because I don't see that happening and I guarantee that when that happens they will then be all upset because they aren't doing the activities that they used to. That is why I haven't been going balls to the wall with my exercise. I know I won't keep up the routine if I was working out 5-6 times a week. I'm trying to make a change that I can sustain not a change just to lose some weight right now.

I do disagree on breakfast though. Once I started eating a proper breakfast, I could never not eat until lunch time again. The right breakfast makes all the difference....high protein.

I think going in stages is also the best way to get started. Too much all at once is what makes most people quit because they are too overwhelmed. Food first then work in the exercise slowly. My first 10lbs lost was due to food changes and just light walking but then to truly start transforming the body different exercise needs to be incorporated....not necessarily more just a little more intense like strength training.

To OP, you have a great attitude and I think you'll be very sucessful. Good luck!

minizebu

I have had a ton of protein in the morning at times (40g+ in one sitting) and I am still hungry all day if I eat breakfast.
There is no blueprint except the one that works for YOU.

I don't think that I used the word "breakfast". I used the term "first meal of the day". For a big guy such as yourself, you are probably not getting enough protein, total, regardless of when you consume it. Run the numbers to find out. The RDA should be the bottom point for someone who is in a deficit. You might want to eat more.

Eating more protein just means eating more protein. It does not mean that you have to go all crazy Atkins or Dukan and restrict carbs. It means getting more protein. It really does have an affect on appetite and satiety.

minizebu

I went ahead and ran the numbers for you. For a man of your present size, you should be getting around 113g of protein each day, just to meet the RDA for protein. This 0.8g protein per kilogram of body weight is the amount of protein recommended by both the National Institute of Health and the World Health Organization as the amount of protein required to maintain health.

It looks like you are not getting anywhere near that amount and it may be contributing to your feelings of being hungry all day on some days.




Edited for spelling.

thedarkwombat

I went ahead and ran the numbers for you. For a man of your present size, you should be getting around 113g of protein each day, just to meet the RDA for protein. This 0.8g protein per kilogram of body weight is the amount of protein recommended by both the National Institute of Health and the World Health Organization as the amount of protein required to maintain health.

It looks like you are not getting anywhere near that amount and it may be contributing to your feelings of being hungry all day on some days.

113g of protein is insane. I would basically have to eat chicken and meats all day long.
I am only hungry on days when I eat breakfast. When I skip breakfast (WHICH MEANS EVEN LESS PROTEIN!I am not hungry all day. SO I don't get what you are selling me.

I have solved my hunger issues, and I am losing weight. Losing weight means I am not going to die prematurely anytime soon.

See the priorities here?

thedarkwombat

I bet you also believe in the 8 glasses of water thing too? This is a borderline myth as well. All the food we eat has water in it. Take that, and have 3 to 4 glasses of water per day and you are good to go.

thedarkwombat

This is why i didn't want to make my diary public.I have lost 29 pounds, and I have someone going through my diary telling me what I am doing wrong.

I could die in my sleep from sleep apnea. I am losing weight. Losing weight is priority right now.

I am not tied down to some US recommended protein BS, I assume based on ways to keep us eating expense meats. The US RDA is a joke. The whole food pyramid is practically upside down anyway.

bcattoes

Weight loss is simple take in less calories than you use.

Fitness requires exercise.

It's 2 different things.

Yes, fitness and weight loss are different things. But sometimes exercise is ALL that's needed to create a calorie deficit.

While I totally agree with the OP, that for obese people exercise is less of a factor for weight loss. For those of us that are guilty of the slow creeping weight gain. Exercise may be everything.

My story as example: I lost almost 30 lbs by not eating any differently than I did when I gained those pounds. It took me over 6 years to gain those 30 lbs. All I needed to do was burn a few more calories each day to get rid of it.

bcattoes

This is why i didn't want to make my diary public.I have lost 29 pounds, and I have someone going through my diary telling me what I am doing wrong.

I could die in my sleep from sleep apnea. I am losing weight. Losing weight is priority right now.

I am not tied down to some US recommended protein BS, I assume based on ways to keep us eating expense meats. The US RDA is a joke. The whole food pyramid is practically upside down anyway.

29 lbs down. You are obviously doing something right!!

FitCanuckChick

op. I agree with some of your points. I love the gym. I love to run. Sweat ur *kitten* off cardio relieves stress for me the way overeating used to. I wish I knew where I read it but if u keep cardio to 30 mins or less it won't increase ur appetite. I have tested this. For me the magic number in 45 mins. A personal trainer at the gym I go to told me that you can have the most perfect workout/weight routine but if you have crappy nutrition, your not gonna reach your goals.

In terms of your weightless vs fitness goals I urge you to incorporate a bit of exercise now. Otherwise you will not be happy with the excess skin once you reach your goal. If you exercise (walking, biking, swimming, anything) and do a bit of toning along the way, the skin has a better chance to keep up with your weigh loss. Trust me on this.