Build muscle in a calorie deficit

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  • tonynguyen75
    tonynguyen75 Posts: 418 Member
    In a non-athletic individual, it's possible to gain noticeable muscle quickly (even in a caloric deficit).

    I can even attest to this, as it happened with me, but it's miniscule, and I'm not even sure it wasn't just my current muscle showing through as the fat came off. Be smart...

    You noticed it, that's all that matters. :)

    How much muscle in pounds is irrelevant to how you feel when you look in the mirror and see those peaks and feathers.
  • FrnkLft
    FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
    In a non-athletic individual, it's possible to gain noticeable muscle quickly (even in a caloric deficit).

    I can even attest to this, as it happened with me, but it's miniscule, and I'm not even sure it wasn't just my current muscle showing through as the fat came off. Be smart...

    You noticed it, that's all that matters. :)

    How much muscle in pounds is irrelevant to how you feel when you look in the mirror and see those peaks and feathers.

    Lol, I changed my post to say nothing. The truth of the matter is, at the same time, I was loosing fat around the muscles, which will make them more noticable without any growth at all, and I did have muscle there.

    Read the other posts, the results are miniscule if any. Just do your cut, then do a proper bulk. By the time you get there you won't care and you'll have seen some results in size and strength.
  • baptiste565
    baptiste565 Posts: 590 Member
    it's possible in 4 different scenarios. And note I said possible. Even with these 4, it's more likely you're not gaining anything.

    1) You're really fat

    2) You're completely untrained

    3) You used to be really muscular, lost it, and are trying to regain it

    4) On roids.

    As you can see, the above are all temporary situations that will eventually result in plateau. Once that happens, the only way you're gaining lean mass is eating above your tdee with a proper resistance training template.
    this
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
    I said *around*... my bf% was higher when I started. I didn't bother with the math for that figure, but I guess it was closer to 24%.

    Even if it was all the way up at 24%, you still lost lean mass. And the difference between "around 20%" and "around 25%" is huge, especially visually, it would be quite difficult to confuse the two.
  • LaColombicana
    LaColombicana Posts: 63 Member
    So if your wanting to lose weight and get more defined muscle you can lift and eat at a deficit. but once you have lost enough weight, then you can up to a small surplus to build that muscle and not lose anymore????
    Yes. And the smaller your surplus, the more your gains will be muscle. They will be slower tho.


    Thats what I guessed, too. I'm cutting, but I want to get strong and maintain whatever muscle I do have. After cutting, I can focus on bulking if I want to....thanks for the clarification!

    BUMP BUMP
  • MUZZAMMIL10
    MUZZAMMIL10 Posts: 10
    http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/

    Guys I used scooby's theory that u can build muscle and lose fat at the same time.
    Yea I know muscle gain will be slow but it is possible!
  • FrnkLft
    FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
    I said *around*... my bf% was higher when I started. I didn't bother with the math for that figure, but I guess it was closer to 24%.

    Even if it was all the way up at 24%, you still lost lean mass. And the difference between "around 20%" and "around 25%" is huge, especially visually, it would be quite difficult to confuse the two.

    Here's the math genius:

    Start:
    LBM: 121
    TTL M: 160

    1 - (121/160) = 24.4%

    End:
    LBM: 121
    TTL M: 142

    1 - (121/142) = 14.8%

    I wasn't tested at 160 lbs, only at 142 after I dropped the weight. I might have had a bit more LBM at the start, but all the legitimate literature I've read indicates that lifting heavy during a deficit maintains muscle, and for exactly the same reasons that lifting heavy during a surplus builds it.

    Here is one article in particular, from a bodybuilder, who has a PhD in the field: http://www.simplyshredded.com/layne-norton-the-most-effective-cutting-diet.html

    A quote:
    "As a general rule of thumb, losing 1 lb of bodyweight per week will allow one to retain most of their muscle mass. One can probably lose up to 1.5 lbs per week and retain most, if not all of their muscle mass (provided their training and nutrition are optimized)."

    And before you chime in, my training was sufficient, and my diet was too. If I lost anything, it was negligible, and you're just being a pain in the *kitten*.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,022 Member
    http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/

    Guys I used scooby's theory that u can build muscle and lose fat at the same time.
    Yea I know muscle gain will be slow but it is possible!
    But you've apparently gained lots of muscle very quickly. There's contradiction in your statements. So which is it?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • pcastagner
    pcastagner Posts: 1,606 Member
    I think what's really missing from this is how we aren't necessarily after "muscle gain" in the sense that we want total lean mass to be higher. I mean, yeah, we do. But probably, or at least in many cases because it will give you a more desirable appearance. Of course it's enhanced by fat loss but that's not the only thing going on.

    Or at least, that's confused with "your deltoids, lats, forearms, traps, biceps, and triceps will be bigger". Because even if you lose some total muscle, those might grow. So you take a measurement, and say "I gained muscle". It's true. And, not true. You lost a bunch "somewhere" from the cut. But that doesn't mean the muscles you never used in your life before didn't grow.
  • reach4thestar
    reach4thestar Posts: 174 Member
    Bump....lots of useful info
  • Cindyinpg
    Cindyinpg Posts: 3,902 Member
    INteresting.
  • sarrah_n
    sarrah_n Posts: 192 Member
    Personally, I found that adding calories helped me build muscle. I increased by calorie intake and adjusted my macros:

    Months 1-3: I wasworking out 3-4 days per week and was eating 1400 calories per day- the scale barely moved, didn't see much change, and I was ALWAYS sore and hungry.

    Month 4-6: I kept the same workout regime but ate 2000 calories per day with more PROTEIN- lost 8 pounds, 2 pant sizes, and TONED everything! Visible changes :)

    Adding calories worked for me...
  • Fullsterkur_woman
    Fullsterkur_woman Posts: 2,712 Member
    So you can cut quickly to get to an acceptable bf%, and then slowly add back the lost lean mass and then some more?

    No thanks, I'd rather cut bf% slowly and maintain muscle mass. I get to eat more and work out more and get stronger more the whole time too.
  • MUZZAMMIL10
    MUZZAMMIL10 Posts: 10
    http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/

    Guys I used scooby's theory that u can build muscle and lose fat at the same time.
    Yea I know muscle gain will be slow but it is possible!
    But you've apparently gained lots of muscle very quickly. There's contradiction in your statements. So which is it?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    Yea I gained around 4-5lb of muscle.
  • FrnkLft
    FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
    Personally, I found that adding calories helped me build muscle. I increased by calorie intake and adjusted my macros:

    Months 1-3: I wasworking out 3-4 days per week and was eating 1400 calories per day- the scale barely moved, didn't see much change, and I was ALWAYS sore and hungry.

    Month 4-6: I kept the same workout regime but ate 2000 calories per day with more PROTEIN- lost 8 pounds, 2 pant sizes, and TONED everything! Visible changes :)

    Adding calories worked for me...

    Hmmm... that's really interesting. You think it's because you were consuming so few calories your body was holding on to what it had, basically "starvation mode"? Were you eating back the calories you burned?
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,022 Member
    http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/

    Guys I used scooby's theory that u can build muscle and lose fat at the same time.
    Yea I know muscle gain will be slow but it is possible!
    But you've apparently gained lots of muscle very quickly. There's contradiction in your statements. So which is it?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    Yea I gained around 4-5lb of muscle.
    And you measure this how?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • BigJohnJ
    BigJohnJ Posts: 8
    In a caloric deficit over the course of a training cycle, you can lose fat and gain muscle definition. To build muscle, you need to add calories. Getting your diet and nutrition "right" needs to be the foundation of your training. Only then should you take a look at what is happening with your body and figure out if you need any supplements. Excellent, useable nutrition information is available at: www.musclecookbook.net

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