Lifters: I need your thoughts...

tracieangeletti

Once again I am confused. Today at the gym I asked a trainer about the leg curl machine and he started to discuss my lifting program. The program changes slightly every two months keeping some of the same exercises but exchanging out a few too. It is set up that you do 3 sets of 10 reps. Anyways, he tells me that after a week or so my body has already adjusted to the lifts and for the next 6-8 weeks of doing those lifts I've already hit a plateau and not getting much out of them. He said I should be changing things up weekly. Is this true? I have NO idea how to change things up, especially weekly. I'm following a program because I don't know enough about lifting to be making my own workout up. I'm afraid that I might have wasted at least a couple months time doing the same lifts for 8 weeks at a time. I do try to add weight each workout when I can. What are your thoughts? Where should I look for a program that is always changing? Is it necessary?

CoachDreesTraining

Most experienced lifters only change their program every 4-6 weeks. Beginners can go several months with the same program without plateauing.

tracieangeletti

I just started my 5th month. I have been doing barbell squats, deadlifts, rows, etc... the whole time. Please tell me I'm still getting benefits from them. Should I stop doing them for awhile and then go back to them?

TR0berts

Your trainer is simply trying to ensure that you keep paying for weekly sessions with him. That, or he doesn't know what he's doing.

I do try to add weight each workout when I can. What are your thoughts?

You're doing it right. You don't need to change unless you a) want to; b) change your goals or find that your current program won't help you to your goal(s); c) can't progress further, even after deloading. There's probably another one or two reasons, but those are the main ones I'm coming up with.

In short, if you're able to keep increasing the weight, then you haven't hit any sort of plateau.

Chieflrg

You don't have to change things up weekly. every 6-8 weeks is pretty much the consensus ammoung most lifters.

What I would do though is forget leg curls and most machines and work with free weights primarily. You will get more bang for your buck.

Many people do compound work as do I. Its really does more for you all in all and is more efficient use of your time.

Don't worry about if you wasted time or not. Everybody, myself included has done things in the gym that wasn't in our best interests. Just do some research and don't be afraid of trying something new.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1105383-some1-that-has-had-cancer-would-like-share-a-run-with-me-2

JoRocka

Your trainer is simply trying to ensure that you keep paying for weekly sessions with him. That, or he doesn't know what he's doing.

I do try to add weight each workout when I can. What are your thoughts?

You're doing it right. You don't need to change unless you a) want to; b) change your goals or find that your current program won't help you to your goal(s); c) can't progress further, even after deloading. There's probably another one or two reasons, but those are the main ones I'm coming up with.

In short, if you're able to keep increasing the weight, then you haven't hit any sort of plateau.

pretty much this.

it's difficult as a generic big box typical trainer - even if they are good- and know what they are doing- to put you on a PURE weight training workout regime- because the lifts don't change much. the programs rely on STICKING WITH IT- not that stupid muscle confusion crap.

BUT-
1. yes- trainers need clients in order to stay profitable-
2. if you were a client- and you were fairly new- and you ONLY did 6 lifts- you are paying all that money for the same thing. They don't like it- sometimes they still want training because they aren't motivated- and they admit it- but they themselves want the variety- they feel like they are getting their monies worth.

A LOT of people don't feel like they get their money's worth if they aren't drenched in sweat and huffing. Pure lifting doesn't leave you gasping for air the same way and dialed back HIIT session would.

perception means a lot- people don't perceive 30-40 minutes of doing 2 lifts to be 'getting their money's worth'

if you want advice on strength training programs- go talk to a coach who specializes in it- not a basic trainer at your average gym.

tonynguyen75

Many successful people have done bench pressing, dead lifts, squats, ohp, barbell rows and chin ups for years.

Leave the muscle confusion stuff to P90X.

tracieangeletti

I can not tell you how relieved I am to hear this!!! I have been working so hard and really putting my all into it and when he said this I felt a little devastated. I will continue on!!

Someone mentioned the leg curl. I too thought this was a strange change in the program because I was told not to use the machines. I tried out the machine today to give it a try before leg day tomorrow but didn't feel comfortable with it. Maybe I'm too short? Is there another lift I can do in place of that one?

jacksonpt

Your trainer is simply trying to ensure that you keep paying for weekly sessions with him. That, or he doesn't know what he's doing.

I do try to add weight each workout when I can. What are your thoughts?

You're doing it right. You don't need to change unless you a) want to; b) change your goals or find that your current program won't help you to your goal(s); c) can't progress further, even after deloading. There's probably another one or two reasons, but those are the main ones I'm coming up with.

In short, if you're able to keep increasing the weight, then you haven't hit any sort of plateau.

Agreed.


I will add one point though as far as switching things up goes.
Over time your body becomes good at things. You do a given lift for 6 months straight and your body will get very good at the movement. Switching exercises keeps things inefficient as the body never has time to really get good at something. That inefficiency = higher calorie burns. So speaking purely weight loss, switching things up more often is better. Now, how often should you be switching things? I dunno, but every week seems silly to me.

JoRocka

I can not tell you how relieved I am to hear this!!! I have been working so hard and really putting my all into it and when he said this I felt a little devastated. I will continue on!!

Someone mentioned the leg curl. I too thought this was a strange change in the program because I was told not to use the machines. I tried out the machine today to give it a try before leg day tomorrow but didn't feel comfortable with it. Maybe I'm too short? Is there another lift I can do in place of that one?

I am not a big fan of machines either... but you need to make sure your joint (knee/hip/shoulder whatever) lines up with the axis of rotation on the machine.

so where it breaks and pivots- it should line up with where YOU break and pivot.

Most of those machines- the bar where your legs go- move up and down... and then the seat (or the arm for your legs) will adjust forward and back.

I have found many women do not fit extremely well into machines because they are built to accomadate the average PERSON- so adjusting them seems weird.

Which is ironic because I'd say more women use them than men... so big guys- don't fit well- and neither do tiny women.

ElliottTN

Your trainer is just trying to make sure you have DOMS out the wazoo every week so you think he is doing an amazing job and keep paying him. You can go much much longer without switching things up. Oh, and you want your body to get used to them, that's how you become more efficient at the lifts but at a certain point it will stunt your progress and you will progress more efficiently by switching things up.

tracieangeletti

Ok, feeling much more confident now. Thanks everyone!! So this program with it's changes every two months is not that far off base,which is good to know. Can you continue with squats and such for months on end? It does keep squats and deadlifts as a constant lift throughout the 12 month plan. I will try the leg curl again tomorrow and try to make it work, but I think I might be too short for it. I'm about 5'1 1/2". Do you know of any other lift or exercise that would work the same muscles that the leg curl does?

JNick77

Do you know of any other lift or exercise that would work the same muscles that the leg curl does?

Straight leg deadlifts
Back Hyperextensions surprisingly hit the glutes and hammies a bit
Glute Ham Raise (gym needs to have that bench though)
Walking Lunges (long stride / knee touching ground): Surprisingly seem to hit the glutes and upper region of your hammies pretty well.

juliewatkin

Many successful people have done bench pressing, dead lifts, squats, ohp, barbell rows and chin ups for years.

Leave the muscle confusion stuff to P90X.

This. 6 years of pretty much the same thing. To get strong at something, do that thing. Muscle confusion is a load of crap.

jacksonpt

Do you know of any other lift or exercise that would work the same muscles that the leg curl does?

Straight leg deadlifts
Back Hyperextensions surprisingly hit the glutes and hammies a bit
Glute Ham Raise (gym needs to have that bench though)
Walking Lunges (long stride / knee touching ground): Surprisingly seem to hit the glutes and upper region of your hammies pretty well.

Yes and yes.

JoRocka

Do you know of any other lift or exercise that would work the same muscles that the leg curl does?

Straight leg deadlifts
Back Hyperextensions surprisingly hit the glutes and hammies a bit
Glute Ham Raise (gym needs to have that bench though)
Walking Lunges (long stride / knee touching ground): Surprisingly seem to hit the glutes and upper region of your hammies pretty well.

Yes and yes.

seriously no 'yes' on the glute ham raise?

a ghetto glute raise is the number one body weight hammy exersise. It's brutal. I do it on the lat pull down bench- hook my feet into the knee pads and away I go.

Also- bridge lifts? excellent... I do mine single leg with a weight on a med ball. killer for the hammys.

j6o4

Keep the compound movements and exchange the isolation movements if you want to switch it up weekly.

cwolfman13

IMHO, the only thing you need to make sure you're "switching up" is the amount of weight you are pushing and pulling...you should always be trying to lift more. If you're going weeks on end lifting the same weight with the same reps, that might be an issue.

jacksonpt

Do you know of any other lift or exercise that would work the same muscles that the leg curl does?

Straight leg deadlifts
Back Hyperextensions surprisingly hit the glutes and hammies a bit
Glute Ham Raise (gym needs to have that bench though)
Walking Lunges (long stride / knee touching ground): Surprisingly seem to hit the glutes and upper region of your hammies pretty well.

Yes and yes.

seriously no 'yes' on the glute ham raise?

a ghetto glute raise is the number one body weight hammy exersise. It's brutal. I do it on the lat pull down bench- hook my feet into the knee pads and away I go.

Also- bridge lifts? excellent... I do mine single leg with a weight on a med ball. killer for the hammys.

I can't do them, so I can't comment on them.

Nothing hits my gluts/hams like barbell lunges.

JoRocka

I can't do them, so I can't comment on them.

Nothing hits my gluts/hams like barbell lunges.

can't do them? physical thing like physically in capable? or just not strong enough- because it's easy to do a "negative" and just moderate with your hands.

barbell lunges do jack for my hammstrings- i hear it's a great workout for them- but they just kill me all over- I don't feel it specifically back there.

I do love them... but if I'm specifically going for hammys- it's dead lift- weighted bridge lifts- ghetto hammy raises. bam. hammy's toast.

jacksonpt

I can't do them, so I can't comment on them.

Nothing hits my gluts/hams like barbell lunges.

can't do them? physical thing like physically in capable? or just not strong enough- because it's easy to do a "negative" and just moderate with your hands.

barbell lunges do jack for my hammstrings- i hear it's a great workout for them- but they just kill me all over- I don't feel it specifically back there.

I do love them... but if I'm specifically going for hammys- it's dead lift- weighted bridge lifts- ghetto hammy raises. bam. hammy's toast.

Not strong enough. I've done negatives before, I just prefer lunges.

Showcase_Brodown

Many successful people have done bench pressing, dead lifts, squats, ohp, barbell rows and chin ups for years.

Leave the muscle confusion stuff to P90X.

This. 6 years of pretty much the same thing. To get strong at something, do that thing. Muscle confusion is a load of crap.

This ^ and that ^^.

I personally think that the "confusion" skips the muscles and goes straight for the brain.

That's not to say that building strength in lift A can't somehow carry over to increased strength in lifts B and C.

Naomi0504

Hi, Tracie Are you increasing the weights?

JoRocka

Not strong enough. I've done negatives before, I just prefer lunges.

yeah they do suck. a lot

I do them every 2-3 weeks.... not every leg workout- not even once a week.

I'm good enough to seriously not fall on my face- but after about one set of 8- I start catching myself on my hands. it's not pretty. But yeah- they are the suck.

JNick77

The glute bridge does seem to hit the hammies a bit too.

JNick77

Not strong enough. I've done negatives before, I just prefer lunges.

yeah they do suck. a lot

I do them every 2-3 weeks.... not every leg workout- not even once a week.

I'm good enough to seriously not fall on my face- but after about one set of 8- I start catching myself on my hands. it's not pretty. But yeah- they are the suck.

I miss having a GHR so much... :sad:

tracieangeletti

I have no idea what a glute ham raise is or what a bridge is but I'll look them up! I have been doing Romanian deadlifts for the last two months so I guess I shouldn't keep doing these for the next two months. :-/

tracieangeletti

Hi, Tracie Are you increasing the weights?

Hi there!! :happy: Yep. Trying to add weight either every week or every other week. Working out well for the leg lifts but on my arms I'm having a harder time adding every time. My upper body strength blows!! Lol

FrnkLft

You mentioned a "plateu". A plateu is when you reach a point where you cannot continue to increase the weight over time, so basically a lack of gains. For isolation movements, don't worry about plateus. They are a pretty lousy indication of strength in the short term.

Use your compound movements as a judge for this (bench press, squats, deadlifts, etc...) and if you hit a plateu, what you would do to move past it is lower the weight a bit, and work your way back up. It's like taking 3 steps forward and one step back.

LYNN8SUPERSTARZS

Check out bodybuilding.com, there is endless info about this subject there, detailed videos and you can set up a profile as well that can give you info specific to you

sluggz

Squat, Deadlift, BenchPress and Overhead Press are four great compound lifts to form the foundation of a good program. Machine work can be done as assistance lifts after those four lifts.

Like the others said, you can switch the assistance lifts every 6-8 weeks, but keep the 4 main lifts right where there are.