A call to more heavily regulate the supplement industry
Replies
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I have no chronic illness.
Cute.
Why is that "cute?"
It's cute because I obviously meant "your use" in contrast to "his use" from your post and you're doing everything you can to keep from either admitting you smoke or lying about it.
You're so obviously a pot smoker, despite not having any chronic illness.
So you are just trying to poke fun at me?
No, I was pointing out to the others in this thread where your irrational, paranoid fear of the government comes from.
I have "fear of the government." And I have no fear of corporations either. I am not the one being irrational and paranoid here.0 -
There's no regulation requiring supplement labels to be accurate, therefore, they cannot be mislabeled. That's the entire point of the article. As it stands now, it would be considered false advertising, but false advertising specifically excludes labels. This is why supplement companies are getting away with these practices, otherwise they would have been shut down, fined, and people probably jailed after this independent testing was done.
Technically, it's not illegal, as there is no regulation preventing it. False advertising doesn't include labeling.
People should be allowed to put whatever they want in their bodies.
However, corporations should not be able to market and sell anything they want, unchecked and unregulated. Those are two very different concepts.
Your second sentence here contradicts your first sentence.
Not my post, but no it doesn't.
If I chose to consume St John's wort thinking it will help depression, that is my choice.
If I buy a bottle labeled St John's Wort, I should be getting St John's Wort, not some filler of unknown origin that the company decided to use instead because it was cheaper.
Since your second example is already illegal (labeling something as A when it's really
what is being argued here?
Mislabeling is mislabeling. That is not false advertising, that's different.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud
The problem is not fraud. It's safety and efficacy. A supplement manufacturer can market pretty much anything they want and say anything they want about it. They can say it's safe.
They don't need to know it's safe. They don't need to know whether it does what they say it does.
The market doesn't simplys olve everything. That's why the FDA has to ban products sometimes. If businesses were so good at safety, the FDA wouldn't need to ban things. We wouldn't need to mandate minimum car safety requirements. The federal government wouldn't have had to mandate air bags and shoulder belts in cars.
You know about air bags and shoulder belts, right? The car manufacturers dragged their feet and fought kicking and screaming against requiring those things. But the government mandated them and now we have them, and now cars are safer than they used to be. That's how this works.0 -
I have "fear of the government." And I have no fear of corporations
I assume there's at least one typo and one missing one word in there. But still, this is pretty much perfect as is.
Hilarious that your accident ends up being infinitely more accurate than what you meant to say.0 -
I have "fear of the government." And I have no fear of corporations
I assume there's at least one typo and one missing one word in there. But still, this is pretty much perfect as is.
Hilarious that your accident ends up being infinitely more accurate than what you meant to say.
Oops. :laugh:
Nice catch!~ (at least I can give you credit for *one* good comment)0 -
It would be nice to have some sort of standard and efficacy for the products. Right now we just rely on the manufacturers doing the right thing.
It would be nice if they were all standardized and reliably efficient, but it'd not be good to have more rules and regulations telling us what to do and can't do.
So we research the companies and look through their research/testing and make our own informed decisions.0 -
There's no regulation requiring supplement labels to be accurate, therefore, they cannot be mislabeled. That's the entire point of the article. As it stands now, it would be considered false advertising, but false advertising specifically excludes labels. This is why supplement companies are getting away with these practices, otherwise they would have been shut down, fined, and people probably jailed after this independent testing was done.
Technically, it's not illegal, as there is no regulation preventing it. False advertising doesn't include labeling.
People should be allowed to put whatever they want in their bodies.
However, corporations should not be able to market and sell anything they want, unchecked and unregulated. Those are two very different concepts.
Your second sentence here contradicts your first sentence.
Not my post, but no it doesn't.
If I chose to consume St John's wort thinking it will help depression, that is my choice.
If I buy a bottle labeled St John's Wort, I should be getting St John's Wort, not some filler of unknown origin that the company decided to use instead because it was cheaper.
Since your second example is already illegal (labeling something as A when it's really what is being argued here?
Mislabeling is mislabeling. That is not false advertising, that's different.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud
The problem is not fraud. It's safety and efficacy. A supplement manufacturer can market pretty much anything they want and say anything they want about it. They can say it's safe.
They don't need to know it's safe. They don't need to know whether it does what they say it does.
The market doesn't simplys olve everything. That's why the FDA has to ban products sometimes. If businesses were so good at safety, the FDA wouldn't need to ban things. We wouldn't need to mandate minimum car safety requirements. The federal government wouldn't have had to mandate air bags and shoulder belts in cars.
You know about air bags and shoulder belts, right? The car manufacturers dragged their feet and fought kicking and screaming against requiring those things. But the government mandated them and now we have them, and now cars are safer than they used to be. That's how this works.
Obviously it's safe or people would be dropping like flies.
And nothing solves "everything." But the market is better for consumers than bureaucrats. And "banning" solves nothing. Consumers and producers will find ways to meet each other's needs, even when expressly forbidden.0 -
I balk at the idea of giving the FDA (or any other regulatory agency) enough power that they can outright ban certain foods or chemicals, even those that have potentially harmful effects.
Hmm. That's kinda beyond crazy. Completely nonsensical stance. Products like Thalidomide have to be taken off the market.
Hmm. It's kinda not, actually. If a product is known to be harmful and someone who knows this still wishes to consume it, I say all power to them. Why are you trying to protect people from themselves? That's kinda beyond crazy, possibly bordering on completely nonsensical.
Thalidomide was a product marketed to treat morning sickness, that caused birth defects. Your stance is insane.
Let's talk crazy, then.
There are plenty of foods and chemicals that don't have many (or sometimes any) redeeming qualities. Alcohol has shown to have similar effects, but you're not advocating removing it from the market, just to name one example. Since you're specifically talking about a product that was meant for a pregnant market and it causes severe issues for that market, I would agree that it's probably not the best thing for consumers in that market to purchase. I would argue that it shouldn't need to be taken off the market by a regulatory agency at that point, since they'd already failed. At the point where everyone realized the adverse effects it had, I'm betting the market looking at purchasing it reconsidered their decision. Taking it a step further, with no customers interested in purchasing it, it would swiftly fail in any market.
So what you're saying is that thalidomide should be legal.
I see.
It is, actually. It's just hard to get.
Wow. I left for lunch and this thread just blew up!
Thank you for pointing out that this drug is still legal. While I certainly wouldn't advocate that women who are pregnant or are considering becoming pregnant take it, it has been used (with some success, I might add) to treat Cancer patients as well as people with leprosy.
The more you know!0 -
Obviously it's safe or people would be dropping like flies.
And nothing solves "everything." But the market is better for consumers than bureaucrats. And "banning" solves nothing. Consumers and producers will find ways to meet each other's needs, even when expressly forbidden.
People are dropping like flies. How many people die from supplements? How many people have gotten cancer because of supplements? How many people have developed other disorders? Chronic disorders?
No one knows. There's no way to know. No one is doing any testing of these supplements. People buy them, trusting the label. But they don't know. No one does. No one has the mandate or authority to test the supplements. No one has the authority to go in and inspect the facilities where they're made. No one has the authority to set standards on labeling.
The market isn't doing these things. Half the pills on the shelf at Walmart could be adulterated or made of nothing but sugar. Who knows? No one does. Who has the authority to test them and fine the companies? No one does.
The market is not taking care of these problems. As much as you credit the invisible hand/brand reputation/etc for being the ultimate force for good, it's not taking care of these things.
The supplement industry has had many years to take care of these issues, and the only thing it's gotten is worse. It's time for the government to regulate this industry.
If the prescription drug industry were like the supplement industry.... holy crap.0 -
I balk at the idea of giving the FDA (or any other regulatory agency) enough power that they can outright ban certain foods or chemicals, even those that have potentially harmful effects.
Hmm. That's kinda beyond crazy. Completely nonsensical stance. Products like Thalidomide have to be taken off the market.
Hmm. It's kinda not, actually. If a product is known to be harmful and someone who knows this still wishes to consume it, I say all power to them. Why are you trying to protect people from themselves? That's kinda beyond crazy, possibly bordering on completely nonsensical.
Thalidomide was a product marketed to treat morning sickness, that caused birth defects. Your stance is insane.
Let's talk crazy, then.
There are plenty of foods and chemicals that don't have many (or sometimes any) redeeming qualities. Alcohol has shown to have similar effects, but you're not advocating removing it from the market, just to name one example. Since you're specifically talking about a product that was meant for a pregnant market and it causes severe issues for that market, I would agree that it's probably not the best thing for consumers in that market to purchase. I would argue that it shouldn't need to be taken off the market by a regulatory agency at that point, since they'd already failed. At the point where everyone realized the adverse effects it had, I'm betting the market looking at purchasing it reconsidered their decision. Taking it a step further, with no customers interested in purchasing it, it would swiftly fail in any market.
So what you're saying is that thalidomide should be legal.
I see.
It is, actually. It's just hard to get.
Wow. I left for lunch and this thread just blew up!
Thank you for pointing out that this drug is still legal. While I certainly wouldn't advocate that women who are pregnant or are considering becoming pregnant take it, it has been used (with some success, I might add) to treat Cancer patients as well as people with leprosy.
The more you know!
Exactly. I dispensed it to several cancer patients when I worked in pharmacy a few years ago. It's a pain in the *kitten* to get though, even for those folks.0 -
You can't stop people from ingesting stupid ****. People will ingest stupid **** KNOWING it may well kill them.
You can make it harder to access stupid **** - but you can't stop it.
Anything we choose to do as a society needs to be consistent with that basic reality.0 -
Obviously it's safe or people would be dropping like flies.
And nothing solves "everything." But the market is better for consumers than bureaucrats. And "banning" solves nothing. Consumers and producers will find ways to meet each other's needs, even when expressly forbidden.
People are dropping like flies. How many people die from supplements? How many people have gotten cancer because of supplements? How many people have developed other disorders? Chronic disorders?
No one knows. There's no way to know. No one is doing any testing of these supplements. People buy them, trusting the label. But they don't know. No one does. No one has the mandate or authority to test the supplements. No one has the authority to go in and inspect the facilities where they're made. No one has the authority to set standards on labeling.
The market isn't doing these things. Half the pills on the shelf at Walmart could be adulterated or made of nothing but sugar. Who knows? No one does. Who has the authority to test them and fine the companies? No one does.
The market is not taking care of these problems. As much as you credit the invisible hand/brand reputation/etc for being the ultimate force for good, it's not taking care of these things.
The supplement industry has had many years to take care of these issues, and the only thing it's gotten is worse. It's time for the government to regulate this industry.
If the prescription drug industry were like the supplement industry.... holy crap.
0 -
Obviously it's safe or people would be dropping like flies.
And nothing solves "everything." But the market is better for consumers than bureaucrats. And "banning" solves nothing. Consumers and producers will find ways to meet each other's needs, even when expressly forbidden.
People are dropping like flies. How many people die from supplements? How many people have gotten cancer because of supplements? How many people have developed other disorders? Chronic disorders?
No one knows. There's no way to know. No one is doing any testing of these supplements. People buy them, trusting the label. But they don't know. No one does. No one has the mandate or authority to test the supplements. No one has the authority to go in and inspect the facilities where they're made. No one has the authority to set standards on labeling.
The market isn't doing these things. Half the pills on the shelf at Walmart could be adulterated or made of nothing but sugar. Who knows? No one does. Who has the authority to test them and fine the companies? No one does.
The market is not taking care of these problems. As much as you credit the invisible hand/brand reputation/etc for being the ultimate force for good, it's not taking care of these things.
The supplement industry has had many years to take care of these issues, and the only thing it's gotten is worse. It's time for the government to regulate this industry.
If the prescription drug industry were like the supplement industry.... holy crap.
About what I'd expect as a response from a pot smoker.0 -
Obviously it's safe or people would be dropping like flies.
And nothing solves "everything." But the market is better for consumers than bureaucrats. And "banning" solves nothing. Consumers and producers will find ways to meet each other's needs, even when expressly forbidden.
People are dropping like flies. How many people die from supplements? How many people have gotten cancer because of supplements? How many people have developed other disorders? Chronic disorders?
No one knows. There's no way to know. No one is doing any testing of these supplements. People buy them, trusting the label. But they don't know. No one does. No one has the mandate or authority to test the supplements. No one has the authority to go in and inspect the facilities where they're made. No one has the authority to set standards on labeling.
The market isn't doing these things. Half the pills on the shelf at Walmart could be adulterated or made of nothing but sugar. Who knows? No one does. Who has the authority to test them and fine the companies? No one does.
The market is not taking care of these problems. As much as you credit the invisible hand/brand reputation/etc for being the ultimate force for good, it's not taking care of these things.
The supplement industry has had many years to take care of these issues, and the only thing it's gotten is worse. It's time for the government to regulate this industry.
If the prescription drug industry were like the supplement industry.... holy crap.
About what I'd expect as a response from a pot smoker.
Yes, because people who smoke pot love to laugh at funny things, and sometimes post funny pictures on the internet. Generalizations and personal attacks are for those who don't smoke.0 -
Obviously it's safe or people would be dropping like flies.
And nothing solves "everything." But the market is better for consumers than bureaucrats. And "banning" solves nothing. Consumers and producers will find ways to meet each other's needs, even when expressly forbidden.
People are dropping like flies. How many people die from supplements? How many people have gotten cancer because of supplements? How many people have developed other disorders? Chronic disorders?
No one knows. There's no way to know. No one is doing any testing of these supplements. People buy them, trusting the label. But they don't know. No one does. No one has the mandate or authority to test the supplements. No one has the authority to go in and inspect the facilities where they're made. No one has the authority to set standards on labeling.
The market isn't doing these things. Half the pills on the shelf at Walmart could be adulterated or made of nothing but sugar. Who knows? No one does. Who has the authority to test them and fine the companies? No one does.
The market is not taking care of these problems. As much as you credit the invisible hand/brand reputation/etc for being the ultimate force for good, it's not taking care of these things.
The supplement industry has had many years to take care of these issues, and the only thing it's gotten is worse. It's time for the government to regulate this industry.
If the prescription drug industry were like the supplement industry.... holy crap.
About what I'd expect as a response from a pot smoker.
Yes, because people who smoke pot love to laugh at funny things, and sometimes post funny pictures on the internet. Generalizations and personal attacks are for those who don't smoke.
Don't take the bait, WendyTerry...0 -
0 -
Don't take the bait, WendyTerry...
I'd love a reasonable response instead of an owl.0 -
Don't take the bait, WendyTerry...
But pot smokers are retards... Shouldn't all stereotypes continue to be constantly reiterated?0 -
Don't take the bait, WendyTerry...
I'd love a reasonable response instead of an owl.
No you wouldn't. Don't pretend to be indignant.0 -
Don't take the bait, WendyTerry...
But pot smokers are retards... Shouldn't all stereotypes continue to be constantly reiterated?
Not all of them. But the ones who live in places where pot is illegal, then sign up for websites with "420" in their user names and constantly talk about pot, while attaching pictures of themselves and their loved ones to said posts....
Well. You have to wonder a little bit. You actually don't have to wonder much.0 -
Don't take the bait, WendyTerry...
I'd love a reasonable response instead of an owl.
No you wouldn't. Don't pretend to be indignant.
You honestly think I'd have spent 10 minutes typing out that long post if I didn't want a reasonable reply? Come on.0 -
Don't take the bait, WendyTerry...
I'd love a reasonable response instead of an owl.
No you wouldn't. Don't pretend to be indignant.
You honestly think I'd have spent 10 minutes typing out that long post if I didn't want a reasonable reply? Come on.
Boy, that escalated quickly...0 -
Don't take the bait, WendyTerry...
But pot smokers are retards... Shouldn't all stereotypes continue to be constantly reiterated?
Not all of them. But the ones who live in places where pot is illegal, then sign up for websites with "420" in their user names and constantly talk about pot, while attaching pictures of themselves and their loved ones to said posts....
Well. You have to wonder a little bit. You actually don't have to wonder much.
I am WendyTerry420 on nearly every website, unless the username is already taken. If you don't like that, tough noogies. Go eat a NachoBell Grande and get over it.
0 -
Well this train hit Stupidville pretty damn quickly.
I will join!
You smell.0 -
Don't take the bait, WendyTerry...
But pot smokers are retards... Shouldn't all stereotypes continue to be constantly reiterated?
Not all of them. But the ones who live in places where pot is illegal, then sign up for websites with "420" in their user names and constantly talk about pot, while attaching pictures of themselves and their loved ones to said posts....
Well. You have to wonder a little bit. You actually don't have to wonder much.
I am WendyTerry420 on nearly every website, unless the username is already taken. If you don't like that, tough noogies. Go eat a NachoBell Grande and get over it.
Well, you can see what I eat. I actually use MFP for its primary purpose of logging food.0 -
I have no chronic illness.
Cute.
Why is that "cute?"
It's cute because I obviously meant "your use" in contrast to "his use" from your post and you're doing everything you can to keep from either admitting you smoke or lying about it.
You're so obviously a pot smoker, despite not having any chronic illness.
So you are just trying to poke fun at me?
No, I was pointing out to the others in this thread where your irrational, paranoid fear of the government comes from.
Um...actually isn't paranoia a well known side effect of 'ahem' medical marijuana use?0 -
Don't take the bait, WendyTerry...
But pot smokers are retards... Shouldn't all stereotypes continue to be constantly reiterated?
Not all of them. But the ones who live in places where pot is illegal, then sign up for websites with "420" in their user names and constantly talk about pot, while attaching pictures of themselves and their loved ones to said posts....
Well. You have to wonder a little bit. You actually don't have to wonder much.
I am WendyTerry420 on nearly every website, unless the username is already taken. If you don't like that, tough noogies. Go eat a NachoBell Grande and get over it.
Well, you can see what I eat. I actually use MFP for its primary purpose of logging food.
...and for hating on pot smokers, it would seem. >:( In any case, I would try to avoid personal stuff if you really want a serious response...0 -
Don't take the bait, WendyTerry...
I'd love a reasonable response instead of an owl.
No you wouldn't. Don't pretend to be indignant.
You honestly think I'd have spent 10 minutes typing out that long post if I didn't want a reasonable reply? Come on.
Boy, that escalated quickly...0 -
I have no chronic illness.
Cute.
Why is that "cute?"
It's cute because I obviously meant "your use" in contrast to "his use" from your post and you're doing everything you can to keep from either admitting you smoke or lying about it.
You're so obviously a pot smoker, despite not having any chronic illness.
So you are just trying to poke fun at me?
No, I was pointing out to the others in this thread where your irrational, paranoid fear of the government comes from.
Um...actually isn't paranoia a well known side effect of 'ahem' medical marijuana use?
Look up "derealization" too.0 -
Well this train hit Stupidville pretty damn quickly.
I will join!
You smell.
Your momma wears combat boots!0 -
Obviously it's safe or people would be dropping like flies.
And nothing solves "everything." But the market is better for consumers than bureaucrats. And "banning" solves nothing. Consumers and producers will find ways to meet each other's needs, even when expressly forbidden.
People are dropping like flies. How many people die from supplements? How many people have gotten cancer because of supplements? How many people have developed other disorders? Chronic disorders?
No one knows. There's no way to know. No one is doing any testing of these supplements. People buy them, trusting the label. But they don't know. No one does. No one has the mandate or authority to test the supplements. No one has the authority to go in and inspect the facilities where they're made. No one has the authority to set standards on labeling.
The market isn't doing these things. Half the pills on the shelf at Walmart could be adulterated or made of nothing but sugar. Who knows? No one does. Who has the authority to test them and fine the companies? No one does.
The market is not taking care of these problems. As much as you credit the invisible hand/brand reputation/etc for being the ultimate force for good, it's not taking care of these things.
The supplement industry has had many years to take care of these issues, and the only thing it's gotten is worse. It's time for the government to regulate this industry.
If the prescription drug industry were like the supplement industry.... holy crap.
We can speculate all day long about whether or not supplements are causing these problems. We could also speculate about genetically modified foods, foods with questionable additives or from questionable sources, and genetics. Our society is constantly changing its mind as new data comes out regarding any number of foods. Eggs, sugar, milk, and gluten have all been demonized in the past based on faulty science or poorly interpreted findings. There are plenty of people who are of the opinion that the proliferation of McDonald's and other such convenience foods have increased just as heart disease, high blood pressure, etc. have. Correlation =/= causation.
Perhaps the reason that people are dropping like flies is simply that we're mortal. We're born, we live, and then we die--every single one of us. While it is possible that supplements have caused some chronic diseases or strange deaths, it's also possible that those things happened due to any number of other different reasons, including external influences like the environment around us.0
This discussion has been closed.
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