A call to more heavily regulate the supplement industry
Replies
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...and for hating on pot smokers, it would seem. >:( In any case, I would try to avoid personal stuff if you really want a serious response...
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I have no chronic illness.
Cute.
Why is that "cute?"
It's cute because I obviously meant "your use" in contrast to "his use" from your post and you're doing everything you can to keep from either admitting you smoke or lying about it.
You're so obviously a pot smoker, despite not having any chronic illness.
So you are just trying to poke fun at me?
No, I was pointing out to the others in this thread where your irrational, paranoid fear of the government comes from.
Um...actually isn't paranoia a well known side effect of 'ahem' medical marijuana use?
That's why I stay away from the medical stuff.
ETA: Obviously sarc. ... Or is it?0 -
So cheerios can't claim to regulate cholesterol (they would need an investigational new drug application and many clinical trials before claiming this). I'm curious now that they have declared obesity a disease if that means that drugs to help you lose weight are "treating" a disease. Any claims made about treating a disease are not allowed for supplements.0
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I have no chronic illness.
Cute.
Why is that "cute?"
It's cute because I obviously meant "your use" in contrast to "his use" from your post and you're doing everything you can to keep from either admitting you smoke or lying about it.
You're so obviously a pot smoker, despite not having any chronic illness.
So you are just trying to poke fun at me?
No, I was pointing out to the others in this thread where your irrational, paranoid fear of the government comes from.
Um...actually isn't paranoia a well known side effect of 'ahem' medical marijuana use?
That's why I stay away from the medical stuff.
ETA: Obviously sarc. ... Or is it?
By all means, don't make Johnnythan wonder about you, or he might start applying stereotypes and initiating personal attacks, then feign indigence when the gifs come out. (like he never posted any)0 -
I have no chronic illness.
Cute.
Why is that "cute?"
It's cute because I obviously meant "your use" in contrast to "his use" from your post and you're doing everything you can to keep from either admitting you smoke or lying about it.
You're so obviously a pot smoker, despite not having any chronic illness.
So you are just trying to poke fun at me?
No, I was pointing out to the others in this thread where your irrational, paranoid fear of the government comes from.
Um...actually isn't paranoia a well known side effect of 'ahem' medical marijuana use?
That's why I stay away from the medical stuff.
ETA: Obviously sarc. ... Or is it?
By all means, don't make Johnnythan wonder about you, or he might start applying stereotypes and initiating personal attacks, then feign indigence when the gifs come out. (like he never posted any)
I hate when people pretend to be poor too. Especially when the gifs come out.0 -
So cheerios can't claim to regulate cholesterol (they would need an investigational new drug application and many clinical trials before claiming this). I'm curious now that they have declared obesity a disease if that means that drugs to help you lose weight are "treating" a disease. Any claims made about treating a disease are not allowed for supplements.
Except not. Cheerios is a food, and is this regulated. The claim that it can help lower cholesterol is an approved health claim based on (I believe) its fiber content.0 -
Obviously it's safe or people would be dropping like flies.
And nothing solves "everything." But the market is better for consumers than bureaucrats. And "banning" solves nothing. Consumers and producers will find ways to meet each other's needs, even when expressly forbidden.
People are dropping like flies. How many people die from supplements? How many people have gotten cancer because of supplements? How many people have developed other disorders? Chronic disorders?
No one knows. There's no way to know. No one is doing any testing of these supplements. People buy them, trusting the label. But they don't know. No one does. No one has the mandate or authority to test the supplements. No one has the authority to go in and inspect the facilities where they're made. No one has the authority to set standards on labeling.
The market isn't doing these things. Half the pills on the shelf at Walmart could be adulterated or made of nothing but sugar. Who knows? No one does. Who has the authority to test them and fine the companies? No one does.
The market is not taking care of these problems. As much as you credit the invisible hand/brand reputation/etc for being the ultimate force for good, it's not taking care of these things.
The supplement industry has had many years to take care of these issues, and the only thing it's gotten is worse. It's time for the government to regulate this industry.
If the prescription drug industry were like the supplement industry.... holy crap.
We can speculate all day long about whether or not supplements are causing these problems. We could also speculate about genetically modified foods, foods with questionable additives or from questionable sources, and genetics. Our society is constantly changing its mind as new data comes out regarding any number of foods. Eggs, sugar, milk, and gluten have all been demonized in the past based on faulty science or poorly interpreted findings. There are plenty of people who are of the opinion that the proliferation of McDonald's and other such convenience foods have increased just as heart disease, high blood pressure, etc. have. Correlation =/= causation.
Perhaps the reason that people are dropping like flies is simply that we're mortal. We're born, we live, and then we die--every single one of us. While it is possible that supplements have caused some chronic diseases or strange deaths, it's also possible that those things happened due to any number of other different reasons, including external influences like the environment around us.
"People die anyway" is not a valid argument.0 -
I am not saying that a company shouldnt be able to sell whatever herb/supplement they wish. Just that laws and regulations be in place that:
-Ensure they are not making false claims (Like Extenz, the male enhancement supplement, NOT ONE DAMN INCH!!!)
-Ensure that they contain exactly what they claim.
-Ensure a minimum purity standard.
This is pretty damn basic.0 -
I am not saying that a company shouldnt be able to sell whatever herb/supplement they wish. Just that laws and regulations be in place that:
-Ensure they are not making false claims (Like Extenz, the male enhancement supplement, NOT ONE DAMN INCH!!!)
-Ensure that they contain exactly what they claim.
-Ensure a minimum purity standard.
This is pretty damn basic.
I know right?0 -
Obviously it's safe or people would be dropping like flies.
And nothing solves "everything." But the market is better for consumers than bureaucrats. And "banning" solves nothing. Consumers and producers will find ways to meet each other's needs, even when expressly forbidden.
People are dropping like flies. How many people die from supplements? How many people have gotten cancer because of supplements? How many people have developed other disorders? Chronic disorders?
No one knows. There's no way to know. No one is doing any testing of these supplements. People buy them, trusting the label. But they don't know. No one does. No one has the mandate or authority to test the supplements. No one has the authority to go in and inspect the facilities where they're made. No one has the authority to set standards on labeling.
The market isn't doing these things. Half the pills on the shelf at Walmart could be adulterated or made of nothing but sugar. Who knows? No one does. Who has the authority to test them and fine the companies? No one does.
The market is not taking care of these problems. As much as you credit the invisible hand/brand reputation/etc for being the ultimate force for good, it's not taking care of these things.
The supplement industry has had many years to take care of these issues, and the only thing it's gotten is worse. It's time for the government to regulate this industry.
If the prescription drug industry were like the supplement industry.... holy crap.
We can speculate all day long about whether or not supplements are causing these problems. We could also speculate about genetically modified foods, foods with questionable additives or from questionable sources, and genetics. Our society is constantly changing its mind as new data comes out regarding any number of foods. Eggs, sugar, milk, and gluten have all been demonized in the past based on faulty science or poorly interpreted findings. There are plenty of people who are of the opinion that the proliferation of McDonald's and other such convenience foods have increased just as heart disease, high blood pressure, etc. have. Correlation =/= causation.
Perhaps the reason that people are dropping like flies is simply that we're mortal. We're born, we live, and then we die--every single one of us. While it is possible that supplements have caused some chronic diseases or strange deaths, it's also possible that those things happened due to any number of other different reasons, including external influences like the environment around us.
"People die anyway" is not a valid argument..gif)
My point was not that "people die anyway." My point was that we could test and test and test all we pleased. ... And we still wouldn't have a concrete answer due to outside influences and other variables for which we could not account.0 -
Honestly, why do people *WANT* a nanny to tell them how to live their life? Are you admitting to being a dummy or just lazy or what?
Do you research every single product that you purchase? Do you really have time for that?
This is a free market. Without the FDA, countries like China could sell us rat poison and call it a supplement.
How long would that last before people got wise to it? Honestly.
Rigger
lol well it took until 1906 and then we passed the food and drug act..0 -
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Obviously it's safe or people would be dropping like flies.
And nothing solves "everything." But the market is better for consumers than bureaucrats. And "banning" solves nothing. Consumers and producers will find ways to meet each other's needs, even when expressly forbidden.
People are dropping like flies. How many people die from supplements? How many people have gotten cancer because of supplements? How many people have developed other disorders? Chronic disorders?
No one knows. There's no way to know. No one is doing any testing of these supplements. People buy them, trusting the label. But they don't know. No one does. No one has the mandate or authority to test the supplements. No one has the authority to go in and inspect the facilities where they're made. No one has the authority to set standards on labeling.
The market isn't doing these things. Half the pills on the shelf at Walmart could be adulterated or made of nothing but sugar. Who knows? No one does. Who has the authority to test them and fine the companies? No one does.
The market is not taking care of these problems. As much as you credit the invisible hand/brand reputation/etc for being the ultimate force for good, it's not taking care of these things.
The supplement industry has had many years to take care of these issues, and the only thing it's gotten is worse. It's time for the government to regulate this industry.
If the prescription drug industry were like the supplement industry.... holy crap.
We can speculate all day long about whether or not supplements are causing these problems. We could also speculate about genetically modified foods, foods with questionable additives or from questionable sources, and genetics. Our society is constantly changing its mind as new data comes out regarding any number of foods. Eggs, sugar, milk, and gluten have all been demonized in the past based on faulty science or poorly interpreted findings. There are plenty of people who are of the opinion that the proliferation of McDonald's and other such convenience foods have increased just as heart disease, high blood pressure, etc. have. Correlation =/= causation.
Perhaps the reason that people are dropping like flies is simply that we're mortal. We're born, we live, and then we die--every single one of us. While it is possible that supplements have caused some chronic diseases or strange deaths, it's also possible that those things happened due to any number of other different reasons, including external influences like the environment around us.
"People die anyway" is not a valid argument.
My point was not that "people die anyway." My point was that we could test and test and test all we pleased. ... And we still wouldn't have a concrete answer due to outside influences and other variables for which we could not account.
No, but we could test and then fine companies whose products don't meet standards. The point is to increase the safety and accuracy of what's on the market.
It will never be perfect, but a way to enforce standards of some kind would not only improve the quality of what's on the market, it would also put the responsibility of establishing a chemical's safety before the company marketing it is allowed to sell it.0 -
It's funny how people that are protected due to regulation are so against it. It's like people that are super against vaccines, but they never had to live through an era where measles and polio killed and maimed people all the time. They just stand on their little virtual podium claiming it's all lies, and people die anyway, and the toxic chemicals kill people. Meantime, some diseases have been eliminated, while others are barely occurring in the world.
There's nothing wrong with ensuring that what consumers are ingesting is properly labeled and accurate. That's all. It's not that complicated. All other foods go through processes to ensure that what I, as a consumer, am buying what I think I am buying, and that it is safe, clean, and will not adversely harm me in some unexpected way.
It's simple. Stop arguing about it. It's like a bunch of 3-year-olds that can't reason or think logically.
God let's not get started on vaccines. It's thanks to vaccines that people live a life so free of disease that they don't appreciate the threat thereof.0 -
I am not saying that a company shouldnt be able to sell whatever herb/supplement they wish. Just that laws and regulations be in place that:
-Ensure they are not making false claims (Like Extenz, the male enhancement supplement, NOT ONE DAMN INCH!!!)
-Ensure that they contain exactly what they claim.
-Ensure a minimum purity standard.
This is pretty damn basic.
I know right?
I agree that the label ought to be consistent with what is actually in the product; I think the purity standard you speak of rolls into the previous statement. As far as I know, there already are some regulations regarding what these companies can and cannot claim (i.e. they cannot claim to cure, treat, or prevent illnesses).0 -
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oh god i just took a supplement, i think i'm going to die now0
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Couldnt read it all but my 2-cents..
We already live in a police state, do we really need someone regulating more & more of what can, can't, will, won't be done?
We're all able to make our own judgement calls. If someone chooses to try something, let them. The world has been this way since the dawn of time: everyone can make their own choice based on what is provided. We CAN say yes or no, depending on what we want and/or need.
Nature provides and Technology has just taken it to the next level of chemical nature. If one chooses to go the chemical way, let them: it's their choice. I personally, stick to what nature intended as natural - avoiding artificiality that I feel may harm me in any way. Someone else may prefer chemicals to aid them. So be it.
Do you actually know what a police state is?
Maybe the kind of place where things like this happen?
http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/05/dont-appear-to-be-clenching-your-buttock
I don't think we live in a police state... but I think that our civil liberties have certainly eroded as time has gone on. I think it's dangerous to empower certain agencies (like the FDA) with the ability to tell us what we can and cannot choose to put in our bodies. I believe someone posted a scenario earlier about "What if it was your grandmother/mother/sibling/etc. who was putting dangerous chemicals in their body; wouldn't you want someone to tell them they shouldn't do that?" Maybe I would, but I don't think anyone has the right to tell them that they can't. I apply this thought process to trans fats, supplements, conventional medicine, and illegal drugs. Maybe some of the things that people choose to do with their lives aren't so healthy, but it is their life, their body, and their choice. They get to live with the consequences of their actions, for good or for ill.
Interestingly, we have similar views, but they have lead us to different conclusions.
I would like to see these things regulated and tested for safety and efficacy. Not outlawed.
If someone wants to sell St. John's Wort, that's fine by me. But I want to know that it's safe for human consumption. And if they want to claim that it can treat depression, I want clinical studies showing as much. In the absence of that, they are just selling a safe for consumption garden weed and if people want to consume it, that's their choice.
And yes, that extends to currently outlawed drugs. If someone rich enough to do so would like to kick back in his mansion and mainline heroin, I feel he should be able to. But he should be able to feel 'safe' to do so knowing that it won't have been cut with brick dust and floor cleaner.
Regulate it and tax it, I say.
this guy gets it0 -
oh god i just took a supplement, i think i'm going to die now
.gif)
Can I have your stuff?0 -
I am not saying that a company shouldnt be able to sell whatever herb/supplement they wish. Just that laws and regulations be in place that:
-Ensure they are not making false claims (Like Extenz, the male enhancement supplement, NOT ONE DAMN INCH!!!)
-Ensure that they contain exactly what they claim.
-Ensure a minimum purity standard.
This is pretty damn basic.
I know right?
I agree that the label ought to be consistent with what is actually in the product; I think the purity standard you speak of rolls into the previous statement. As far as I know, there already are some regulations regarding what these companies can and cannot claim (i.e. they cannot claim to cure, treat, or prevent illnesses).
They largely get around that sort of thing by alluding to it helping with something. "Ancient Chinese herbalists used x to treat y." or "X may be useful in preventing Y."0 -
but they also have to state both in the add and on the bottle er whatever that "theese statment have not been evaluated by fda" ... you got to look for it but its thereI am not saying that a company shouldnt be able to sell whatever herb/supplement they wish. Just that laws and regulations be in place that:
-Ensure they are not making false claims (Like Extenz, the male enhancement supplement, NOT ONE DAMN INCH!!!)
-Ensure that they contain exactly what they claim.
-Ensure a minimum purity standard.
This is pretty damn basic.
I know right?
I agree that the label ought to be consistent with what is actually in the product; I think the purity standard you speak of rolls into the previous statement. As far as I know, there already are some regulations regarding what these companies can and cannot claim (i.e. they cannot claim to cure, treat, or prevent illnesses).
They largely get around that sort of thing by alluding to it helping with something. "Ancient Chinese herbalists used x to treat y." or "X may be useful in preventing Y."0 -
I am not saying that a company shouldnt be able to sell whatever herb/supplement they wish. Just that laws and regulations be in place that:
-Ensure they are not making false claims (Like Extenz, the male enhancement supplement, NOT ONE DAMN INCH!!!)
-Ensure that they contain exactly what they claim.
-Ensure a minimum purity standard.
This is pretty damn basic.
I know right?
I agree that the label ought to be consistent with what is actually in the product; I think the purity standard you speak of rolls into the previous statement. As far as I know, there already are some regulations regarding what these companies can and cannot claim (i.e. they cannot claim to cure, treat, or prevent illnesses).
They largely get around that sort of thing by alluding to it helping with something. "Ancient Chinese herbalists used x to treat y." or "X may be useful in preventing Y."
In that case, people need to use the most powerful educational tool to ever exist in the history of mankind - that's likely on their cell phone - and do a little research on those claims before blindly buying it.0 -
I am not saying that a company shouldnt be able to sell whatever herb/supplement they wish. Just that laws and regulations be in place that:
-Ensure they are not making false claims (Like Extenz, the male enhancement supplement, NOT ONE DAMN INCH!!!)
-Ensure that they contain exactly what they claim.
-Ensure a minimum purity standard.
This is pretty damn basic.
I know right?
I agree that the label ought to be consistent with what is actually in the product; I think the purity standard you speak of rolls into the previous statement. As far as I know, there already are some regulations regarding what these companies can and cannot claim (i.e. they cannot claim to cure, treat, or prevent illnesses).
They largely get around that sort of thing by alluding to it helping with something. "Ancient Chinese herbalists used x to treat y." or "X may be useful in preventing Y."
Or just things like "Immune support" or "For mood" or "digestive health" or whatever. They list a medical condition/concern without saying "this product cures it." But it's clearly implied, and people believe it.0 -
oh god i just took a supplement, i think i'm going to die now
Can I have your stuff?
Considering how unregulated the supplement market is, you will likely get a lot of stuff.0 -
They don't classify as food. If they did, they would already be regulated as food by the FDA, and this discussion wouldn't be necessary.
There's no regulation requiring supplement labels to be accurate, therefore, they cannot be mislabeled. That's the entire point of the article. As it stands now, it would be considered false advertising, but false advertising specifically excludes labels. This is why supplement companies are getting away with these practices, otherwise they would have been shut down, fined, and people probably jailed after this independent testing was done.
Technically, it's not illegal, as there is no regulation preventing it. False advertising doesn't include labeling.
People should be allowed to put whatever they want in their bodies.
However, corporations should not be able to market and sell anything they want, unchecked and unregulated. Those are two very different concepts.
Your second sentence here contradicts your first sentence.
Not my post, but no it doesn't.
If I chose to consume St John's wort thinking it will help depression, that is my choice.
If I buy a bottle labeled St John's Wort, I should be getting St John's Wort, not some filler of unknown origin that the company decided to use instead because it was cheaper.
Since your second example is already illegal (labeling something as A when it's really
what is being argued here?
Mislabeling is mislabeling. That is not false advertising, that's different.
Dietary supplements appear to fall under the category of food. There is regulation requiring food products to be labeled correctly.0 -
I am not saying that a company shouldnt be able to sell whatever herb/supplement they wish. Just that laws and regulations be in place that:
-Ensure they are not making false claims (Like Extenz, the male enhancement supplement, NOT ONE DAMN INCH!!!)
-Ensure that they contain exactly what they claim.
-Ensure a minimum purity standard.
This is pretty damn basic.
I know right?
I agree that the label ought to be consistent with what is actually in the product; I think the purity standard you speak of rolls into the previous statement. As far as I know, there already are some regulations regarding what these companies can and cannot claim (i.e. they cannot claim to cure, treat, or prevent illnesses).
They largely get around that sort of thing by alluding to it helping with something. "Ancient Chinese herbalists used x to treat y." or "X may be useful in preventing Y."
Yep, that's exactly what I used to do. The words "was thought to [insert claim] by [insert indigenous people of some far off country]...." and "may help with symptoms of...." are your friends when you work in the supplement industry. Just never claim anything directly.0 -
I am not saying that a company shouldnt be able to sell whatever herb/supplement they wish. Just that laws and regulations be in place that:
-Ensure they are not making false claims (Like Extenz, the male enhancement supplement, NOT ONE DAMN INCH!!!)
-Ensure that they contain exactly what they claim.
-Ensure a minimum purity standard.
This is pretty damn basic.
I know right?
I agree that the label ought to be consistent with what is actually in the product; I think the purity standard you speak of rolls into the previous statement. As far as I know, there already are some regulations regarding what these companies can and cannot claim (i.e. they cannot claim to cure, treat, or prevent illnesses).
They largely get around that sort of thing by alluding to it helping with something. "Ancient Chinese herbalists used x to treat y." or "X may be useful in preventing Y."
In that case, people need to use the most powerful educational tool to ever exist in the history of mankind - that's likely on their cell phone - and do a little research on those claims before blindly buying it.
"Research" is an incredibly difficult thing, when marketers are allowed to say almost anything they want about a product.
The industry is full of "experts" linking to "research" and saying this and that. It's pretty much impossible for a layperson to sort through the noise and separate fact from marketing claims.0 -
I am not saying that a company shouldnt be able to sell whatever herb/supplement they wish. Just that laws and regulations be in place that:
-Ensure they are not making false claims (Like Extenz, the male enhancement supplement, NOT ONE DAMN INCH!!!)
-Ensure that they contain exactly what they claim.
-Ensure a minimum purity standard.
This is pretty damn basic.
I know right?
I agree that the label ought to be consistent with what is actually in the product; I think the purity standard you speak of rolls into the previous statement. As far as I know, there already are some regulations regarding what these companies can and cannot claim (i.e. they cannot claim to cure, treat, or prevent illnesses).
They largely get around that sort of thing by alluding to it helping with something. "Ancient Chinese herbalists used x to treat y." or "X may be useful in preventing Y."
In that case, people need to use the most powerful educational tool to ever exist in the history of mankind - that's likely on their cell phone - and do a little research on those claims before blindly buying it.
You and I know to do this, but elderly people (who I suspect are the largest sales demographic), do not.0 -
I am not saying that a company shouldnt be able to sell whatever herb/supplement they wish. Just that laws and regulations be in place that:
-Ensure they are not making false claims (Like Extenz, the male enhancement supplement, NOT ONE DAMN INCH!!!)
-Ensure that they contain exactly what they claim.
-Ensure a minimum purity standard.
This is pretty damn basic.
I know right?
I agree that the label ought to be consistent with what is actually in the product; I think the purity standard you speak of rolls into the previous statement. As far as I know, there already are some regulations regarding what these companies can and cannot claim (i.e. they cannot claim to cure, treat, or prevent illnesses).
They largely get around that sort of thing by alluding to it helping with something. "Ancient Chinese herbalists used x to treat y." or "X may be useful in preventing Y."
In that case, people need to use the most powerful educational tool to ever exist in the history of mankind - that's likely on their cell phone - and do a little research on those claims before blindly buying it.
"Research" is an incredibly difficult thing, when marketers are allowed to say almost anything they want about a product.
The industry is full of "experts" linking to "research" and saying this and that. It's pretty much impossible for a layperson to sort through the noise and separate fact from marketing claims.
Well, that's a positive attitude.0 -
I am not saying that a company shouldnt be able to sell whatever herb/supplement they wish. Just that laws and regulations be in place that:
-Ensure they are not making false claims (Like Extenz, the male enhancement supplement, NOT ONE DAMN INCH!!!)
-Ensure that they contain exactly what they claim.
-Ensure a minimum purity standard.
This is pretty damn basic.
I know right?
I agree that the label ought to be consistent with what is actually in the product; I think the purity standard you speak of rolls into the previous statement. As far as I know, there already are some regulations regarding what these companies can and cannot claim (i.e. they cannot claim to cure, treat, or prevent illnesses).
They largely get around that sort of thing by alluding to it helping with something. "Ancient Chinese herbalists used x to treat y." or "X may be useful in preventing Y."
To be fair, they are using the word "may." I could make a really long parallel to Magic the Gathering, and how the words on the cards have to be scrutinized closely since the difference between "may" and "must" can often influence who ultimately takes the day. ... But some cards are as hotly debated as vaccines--even though time has proven the troof.0
This discussion has been closed.
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