Breaking News: Major Shift on Cholesteral

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Replies

  • Francl27
    Francl27 Posts: 26,371 Member
    I like the part about eating a low saturated fat diet :p
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,222 Member
    So it is written, so shall it be done.
  • ldrosophila
    ldrosophila Posts: 7,512 Member
    So it is written, so shall it be done.

    LOL
  • AlabasterVerve
    AlabasterVerve Posts: 3,171 Member
    Absolutely outrageous.
  • Katla49
    Katla49 Posts: 10,385 Member
    I disagree with the recommendation to increase bariatric surgery. Surgery should always be a LAST resort.
  • ldrosophila
    ldrosophila Posts: 7,512 Member
    I disagree with the recommendation to increase bariatric surgery. Surgery should always be a LAST resort.

    Huh? Cant read the post how does an article on cholesterol=bariatric surgery. What is up with physician's lately every last one of them is knife crazy. I work with one MD who still feels that it should be a last ditch option. The rest are ready to cut the fatties open. Even my OB was saying well after you deliver maybe you want to consider it...I'm like uh I lost 70lbs doing my own thing thanks for the advice doc but no thanks.

    sorry didnt mean to go off on a tangent but ive been seeing it everywhere lately. It's because they dont know what to do about obesity.
  • twixlepennie
    twixlepennie Posts: 1,074 Member
    I disagree with the recommendation to increase bariatric surgery. Surgery should always be a LAST resort.

    Agree!
  • rtfmtech
    rtfmtech Posts: 3 Member
    I disagree with the recommendation to increase bariatric surgery. Surgery should always be a LAST resort.

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa1200111

    Actually for Diabetics, having the surgery can reverse the condition, even if they are of a healthy weight.. so it shouldn't always be overlooked because its "The easy way out"
  • Rob_Zamites
    Rob_Zamites Posts: 13 Member
    It's going to poison more of the citizens and line the pockets of big pharma. #keto
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    The architects of the guidelines say their recommendations are based on the best available evidence. Large clinical trials have consistently shown that statins reduce the risk of heart attacks and strokes, but the committee concluded that there is no evidence that hitting specific cholesterol targets makes a difference. No one has ever asked in a rigorous study if a person’s risk is lower with an LDL of 70 than 90 or 100, for example.

    Dr. Neil J. Stone, the chairman of the committee and a professor of preventive cardiology at Northwestern University’s Feinberg School of Medicine, said he was surprised by what the group discovered as it delved into the evidence. “We deliberated for several years,” he said, “and could not come up with solid evidence for targets.”

    Dr. Nissen, who was not a member of the committee, agreed. “The science was never there” for the LDL targets, he said. Past committees “made them up out of thin air,” he added.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/13/health/new-guidelines-redefine-use-of-statins.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0&hp
  • MercenaryNoetic26
    MercenaryNoetic26 Posts: 2,747 Member
    Interesting, because my LDL is 180 and I don't want statins. No stank you. :glasses:

    Eta: skimmed both CNN & Acg67 articles.

    So ratios no longer matter?
  • tavenne323
    tavenne323 Posts: 332 Member
    My total cholesterol is 224... my LDL is 124 and my HDL is a fabulous (as my doctor says) 85. There would be no way I'd take a statin.
  • 1ZenGirl
    1ZenGirl Posts: 432 Member
    Big Pharma wins again
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,222 Member
    I would imagine about 70% of the population has more than 1 risk factor that relates to CVD.......they'll be lining up for prescriptions.:tongue:
  • SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish
    SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish Posts: 831 Member
    Pretty crazy. This goes in the face of many recent studies saying medicating for high cholesterol is harmful in many cases. Really sounds like some people got paid big pharma money in the AHA.
  • victoriannsays
    victoriannsays Posts: 568 Member
    I am not sure why they would automatically place patients on a statin because they have risk factors. Why not focus on eliminating the risk factors? Ie improve diet, quit smoking, exercise? It's a standard of practice to give statins to patients who have had a TIA, CVA, heart attack a statin - but I don't see why they are essentially planning to give it out like candy.
  • scottkjar
    scottkjar Posts: 346 Member
    It was a heavyweight battle between ... big medicine and big surgery. And the surprising outcome -- THEY BOTH WIN! What a shock.

    Take more pills
    Have more surgeries
    And don't forget your Soylent Green
  • ahamm002
    ahamm002 Posts: 1,690 Member
    Pretty crazy. This goes in the face of many recent studies saying medicating for high cholesterol is harmful in many cases. Really sounds like some people got paid big pharma money in the AHA.

    Most statins are generic. So this isn't a conspiracy by big pharm. The recommendations are designed to keep people alive longer, and they're based on the best available data.

    Sure statins can have side effects. But in terms of longevity, you're better off taking them if you meet the new criteria which really aren't all that aggressive. If I had heart dz, DM, extremely high LDL, or a significant risk of heart attack in the next ten years I'd be demanding my doc prescribe me a statin.
  • ahamm002
    ahamm002 Posts: 1,690 Member
    I disagree with the recommendation to increase bariatric surgery. Surgery should always be a LAST resort.

    And you disagree based on what exactly? Your personal opinion? Perhaps you should monitor some people with BMI's over 40 for ten years and see what happens to them if they fail to lose weight. It's probably not a good idea to wait until they've already had a couple MI's to intervene with major surgery.
  • tilmoph
    tilmoph Posts: 72 Member
    Fun thing to remember; the doctor can write as many prescriptions for statins as they want. You are under exactly zero obligation to have them filled. Might want to keep this in mind when they start trying to up the statin prescriptions.

    Also, possibly a dumb questions; the article says they have no idea what to target for ideal cholesterol, so their recommendation is to just toss cholesterol lowering drugs at people who may possibly have a heart attack. So, uh, why? If we don't know what we're shooting for as far as cholesterol numbers go, what are we trying to achieve with the cholesterol lowering drugs?
  • arcana7609
    arcana7609 Posts: 212 Member
    I disagree with the recommendation to increase bariatric surgery. Surgery should always be a LAST resort.

    Huh? Cant read the post how does an article on cholesterol=bariatric surgery. What is up with physician's lately every last one of them is knife crazy. I work with one MD who still feels that it should be a last ditch option. The rest are ready to cut the fatties open. Even my OB was saying well after you deliver maybe you want to consider it...I'm like uh I lost 70lbs doing my own thing thanks for the advice doc but no thanks.

    sorry didnt mean to go off on a tangent but ive been seeing it everywhere lately. It's because they dont know what to do about obesity.

    It especially is insane when they won't cut you open for any other surgery if you're obese, but something as invasive as bariatric surgery where you could die, is acceptable. I guess their reasoning is that being dead is better than being fat. I've had two doctors recommend the surgery to me even though I was there for a checkup and had no health complaints.

    Cholesterol 192
    HDL 37
    LDL 113
    Triglyceride 100

    Ac1 5.8
    BP 128/65
    BMI 63.5
  • ahamm002
    ahamm002 Posts: 1,690 Member
    Fun thing to remember; the doctor can write as many prescriptions for statins as they want. You are under exactly zero obligation to have them filled. Might want to keep this in mind when they start trying to up the statin prescriptions.

    Suit yourself! Just don't complain if the people on statins live longer!
    Also, possibly a dumb questions; the article says they have no idea what to target for ideal cholesterol, so their recommendation is to just toss cholesterol lowering drugs at people who may possibly have a heart attack. So, uh, why? If we don't know what we're shooting for as far as cholesterol numbers go, what are we trying to achieve with the cholesterol lowering drugs?

    Because multiple large well designed studies have consistently demonstrated that statins increase lifespan in patients that meet the new criteria. We used to think everything was about cholesterol levels, and therefore assumed that the effect of statins was due primarily to how they improve cholesterol. And that may still be the case, but things are much more complicated than just a simple cholesterol number.
  • ahamm002
    ahamm002 Posts: 1,690 Member
    I disagree with the recommendation to increase bariatric surgery. Surgery should always be a LAST resort.

    Huh? Cant read the post how does an article on cholesterol=bariatric surgery. What is up with physician's lately every last one of them is knife crazy. I work with one MD who still feels that it should be a last ditch option. The rest are ready to cut the fatties open. Even my OB was saying well after you deliver maybe you want to consider it...I'm like uh I lost 70lbs doing my own thing thanks for the advice doc but no thanks.

    sorry didnt mean to go off on a tangent but ive been seeing it everywhere lately. It's because they dont know what to do about obesity.

    It especially is insane when they won't cut you open for any other surgery if you're obese, but something as invasive as bariatric surgery where you could die, is acceptable. I guess their reasoning is that being dead is better than being fat. I've had two doctors recommend the surgery to me even though I was there for a checkup and had no health complaints.

    Cholesterol 192
    HDL 37
    LDL 113
    Triglyceride 100

    Ac1 5.8
    BP 128/65
    BMI 63.5

    I wish you the best, but it would be very unusual for someone with your BMI to maintain those cholesterol levels, A1C, and BP for long haul. You're body is still handling the extra weight okay at the age of 44 which is great. But eventually that BMI will catch up with you.

    FYI, primary care doctors are NOT surgeons and don't see a single cent of that money bariatric surgeons make. Furthermore most primary care docs seem to actually dislike surgeons. They're recommending the surgery based on the data that shows your long term prognosis is not looking good unless you lose weight.
  • rjmudlax13
    rjmudlax13 Posts: 900 Member
    Big Pharma wins again

    I'm not one who believes in conspiracy theories, but this is an issue that must be taken into account. Pharma executives will tell you outright that their main goal is profit. They love drugs like statins (and they will say this pretty bluntly) because people usually have to take them for the rest of their lives and there is a steady flow of new patients. It is sad and scary because the big companies are abandoning R&D on drugs like antibiotics because doctors and scientists have been concerned with the overuse of them causing resistant bacteria. Antibiotics just are not profitable because of the massive cost of R&D coupled with the reduced demand. There was a great Frontline docu about this.

    Potential conflict of interests should not be ignored even with the FDA around. These drugs are important and can save lives, but we need more third party independent research on the side effects and potential overuse.
  • MercenaryNoetic26
    MercenaryNoetic26 Posts: 2,747 Member
    Nobody is forcing anybody to shove Rx down our throats. They can sure try.
  • arcana7609
    arcana7609 Posts: 212 Member
    I disagree with the recommendation to increase bariatric surgery. Surgery should always be a LAST resort.

    Huh? Cant read the post how does an article on cholesterol=bariatric surgery. What is up with physician's lately every last one of them is knife crazy. I work with one MD who still feels that it should be a last ditch option. The rest are ready to cut the fatties open. Even my OB was saying well after you deliver maybe you want to consider it...I'm like uh I lost 70lbs doing my own thing thanks for the advice doc but no thanks.

    sorry didnt mean to go off on a tangent but ive been seeing it everywhere lately. It's because they dont know what to do about obesity.

    It especially is insane when they won't cut you open for any other surgery if you're obese, but something as invasive as bariatric surgery where you could die, is acceptable. I guess their reasoning is that being dead is better than being fat. I've had two doctors recommend the surgery to me even though I was there for a checkup and had no health complaints.

    Cholesterol 192
    HDL 37
    LDL 113
    Triglyceride 100

    Ac1 5.8
    BP 128/65
    BMI 63.5

    I wish you the best, but it would be very unusual for someone with your BMI to maintain those cholesterol levels, A1C, and BP for long haul. You're body is still handling the extra weight okay at the age of 44 which is great. But eventually that BMI will catch up with you.

    FYI, primary care doctors are NOT surgeons and don't see a single cent of that money bariatric surgeons make. Furthermore most primary care docs seem to actually dislike surgeons. They're recommending the surgery based on the data that shows your long term prognosis is not looking good unless you lose weight.

    I've been this BMI for 20 years I am most concerned with my AC1 and raising my hdl. I am 44 years old. I am active and have no joint pain. I am sure they meant well, but why would I risk my life because at some point I might get sick? If you monitor your diet you can keep your numbers good with or without weight loss. I have started adding exercise since I went from an active job to a call center where I sit for 10 hours 4 days a week. Losing weight is not my goal. Eating healthy and exercise is. I have given up soda and sugary drinks. I am interested in what my next Ac1 will show. I enjoy using this tool to monitor my intake.

    It's easy to use. I was over my daily goal I think once because of a family gathering. I have it set to lose 1lb a week, but I won't be tracking my weight. I don't have a scale and I think when people focus so much on the numbers that leads to depression and reverting to bad habits because they're discouraged when those numbers aren't what they expect.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    http://www.medpagetoday.com/Cardiology/Prevention/42881
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    I don't know...makes more sense to me than the current criteria.
  • PaleoPath4Lyfe
    PaleoPath4Lyfe Posts: 3,161 Member
    I am glad that my primary care physician doesn't prescribe statins at all. He refuses as he says all the data points to them being very harmful and that generally speaking the people that have cholesterol levels between 200-220 are the most healthy.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    I am glad that my primary care physician doesn't prescribe statins at all. He refuses as he says all the data points to them being very harmful and that generally speaking the people that have cholesterol levels between 200-220 are the most healthy.

    That seems a bit negligent should he have a patient that needs them...high LDL levels and low HDL levels are often genetic and medications are necessary. Your doctor sounds like he sucks.

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