Not to beat a dead horse....
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I don't recall disagreeing in the slightest with the sentence I emphasized. I have merely suggested that, based on my own experience and reading on the subject, "an appropriate amount of calories/a reasonable deficit" is not a number that stays static from the onset of adulthood until death by old age, and, in general, will tend to decrease a bit over time.
In many folks, there's a corresponding drop in general activity level as various aches and pains slow us down a bit.Can someone educate me on why age is necessarily correlated with a substantial decrease in TDEE (assuming no change in activity levels)?
In men, there is often a reduction in the production of testosterone, which most studies I'm aware of (Google your favorite medical sites) strongly correlate to a man's ability to produce muscle mass efficiently.
Please note the lack of absolutes in the above.
(Excellent...[Mr. Burns voice])
So it's likely more closely dependent on 1) activity and 2) muscle mass, right?
And what's one of the most important factors in maintaining high activity level and higher muscle mass, especially in those "dieting"/eating at a deficit?
I propose that it's an appropriate amount of calories/a reasonable deficit.
And thus completes the circle.
I didn't think we were disagreeing either...I was just using your post as a convenient prop/support for my post which was a commentary on the more general topic (and didn't mean it to appear as a rebuttal to your post).
(In other words, I think you and I are good here. :drinker: )
ETA: And yes, "a bit", I agree with. I disagree with those who use their age as some kind of automatic justification for extreme calorie deficits.0 -
Is the age-related decrease more or less significant than the difference between a fit/active vs unfit/inactive adult?
If I understand the question, I don't think it matters (fitness or activity level). BMR is relatively the same between people of the same height, regardless of fitness or activity. Looking at an obese person and a lean person of the same height, organ size is about the same. The difference in weight/apparent body size is mostly due to fat. Their BMR is "about" the same, regardless of weight difference.
And for fit/unfit, metabolism is about the same for people of the same height/weight. Two people, one with 20 lb of muscle more than the other would burn about 100 more calories per day in order to sustain the extra 20 lb of muscle (5 cal per lb of muscle). Not a big difference in calorie requirements for a huge difference in muscle mass.0 -
They are fine for small sedentary women. But the thing to remember on 1200 cals it is very difficult to get enough protein and fat, while getting all the micro nutrients (vitamins and minerals) you need, which leaves very little room for any treats or empty calories.
That is actually not true. I eat 1200 calories or less ( due to age and being 5 feet ) and am most days over in fat and protein even though I don't eat meat, chicken or fish more than twice a week. If a person eats more or less healthy it is child's play to get enough fat and protein even with less than 1200 calories. It leaves room for treats , but you are right it does not leave much room for empty ( meaning without nutritional value ) calories.0 -
just try it and see if it works for you.
I don't understand. I suspect it will "work" for 98% of people who try it, if by "work", you mean, "loses weight"...
...but that isn't really the question here, is it? It's whether or not it's "right"...and I would guess (and it's admittedly just a guess) that it's "right" for far fewer than who "try it" on MFP.
But honestly, I'm past the point of arguing it with anyone. Sure, I'll still post in the 1200 threads as I see them to suggest that not everyone should start at the bottom, but I'm not going to engage in the certain argument...and not because I think I'm wrong, but because I have no interest in persuading those who are convinced that 1200 is "right" for them, regardless of where they are on their "journey" or how many times they've previously tried it the 1200 way (because, they argue, it "works" for them).
sometimes the horse isn't really dead, sometimes it's just lazy.0 -
sometimes the horse isn't really dead, sometimes it's just lazy.
how do you know it's not just lethargic cause it's eating less than 1200 calories :blushing:0 -
I eat 1200 calories or less ( due to age and being 5 feet ) and am most days over in fat and protein even though I don't eat meat, chicken or fish more than twice a week. If a person eats more or less healthy it is child's play to get enough fat and protein even with less than 1200 calories. It leaves room for treats , but you are right it does not leave much room for empty ( meaning without nutritional value ) calories.
Agreed. You have to take into account the food you are eating. You could consume all 1200 calories in a big mac, fries and thickshake (actually, I'm pretty sure that's more than 1200 calories) every day and be seriously malnourished. If you eat well every day and 1200 is appropriate for you there shouldn't be a problem. BUT: I'm set to 1200 and it's working really well for me but on days when I don't do any exercise I can't have any 'extras' - it's basic breakfast, lunch, dinner and two pieces of fruit and no creamy mushroom sauce on my steak at dinner. I have found that this is a motivating factor for me to exercise though, so there is a pro here I guess.
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It's working really well for you. According to your ticker you've lost 5 kg in 2 years. Slow and steady wins the race. At this pace it will only take another 6 years to lose that last 15 kg. I look forward to reading your success thread in 2020.
I eat 1200 calories or less ( due to age and being 5 feet ) and am most days over in fat and protein even though I don't eat meat, chicken or fish more than twice a week. If a person eats more or less healthy it is child's play to get enough fat and protein even with less than 1200 calories. It leaves room for treats , but you are right it does not leave much room for empty ( meaning without nutritional value ) calories.
Agreed. You have to take into account the food you are eating. You could consume all 1200 calories in a big mac, fries and thickshake (actually, I'm pretty sure that's more than 1200 calories) every day and be seriously malnourished. If you eat well every day and 1200 is appropriate for you there shouldn't be a problem. BUT: I'm set to 1200 and it's working really well for me but on days when I don't do any exercise I can't have any 'extras' - it's basic breakfast, lunch, dinner and two pieces of fruit and no creamy mushroom sauce on my steak at dinner. I have found that this is a motivating factor for me to exercise though, so there is a pro here I guess.0 -
Can someone educate me on why age is necessarily correlated with a substantial decrease in TDEE (assuming no change in activity levels)?
Don't know the specifics, but as you get older, your BMR goes down. BMR is what your body needs to maintain essential functions, organs, etc. Perhaps as we get older, organs get smaller/less effective? Seems like I have heard that as we get older, cells die off and are not replaced by the body. I'll bet a doctor could explain it, but I've never met a doctor that needed to lose weight...
You haven't met enough doctors...
TDEE (and BMR) goes down primarily due to LBM loss seen over time. If you maintain or develop LBM then TDEE will likely decrease a lot less. There are a few other factors such as hormonal changes (oh, pituitary, how you own us...) but the principal is LBM.
So if you figure out how to keep LBM .....0 -
1200 calories and hitting the nutrients takes effort and diversity. If you don't use supplements you have to add specific foods in some cases :-
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1200 calories and hitting the nutrients takes effort and diversity. If you don't use supplements you have to add specific foods in some cases :-
I completely understand your point. However, this is very depressing. I would starve on this diet. 1/2 a medium egg? 2 oz. cooked herring? I realize you were making a point, but who eats like that? I need real food and at 55 years old I'm eating about 500 - 700 calories more a day than that. I still lose .8 - 1 pound a week most weeks. Effort and diversity? It would also take a boatload of "I don't care about taste or food enjoyment".0 -
1200 calories and hitting the nutrients takes effort and diversity. If you don't use supplements you have to add specific foods in some cases :-
I hate to tell you, but that is NOT a lot protein. The average woman needs 100-125 grams/day to prevent major losses of LBM, and at least 90 grams/day, if they are "small." You're a male, hence your protein needs are much higher than that, unless you are really tiny! If you only care about "weight loss" (i.e. the number on the sale), then have at it, but if you want to lose primarily fat, then your protein intake needs to be increased!0 -
MFP has set me at 1200 calories, some people here are saying this is bad. I take multivitamins for nutrition and am unable to exercise to the level I would like because of how many hours I work. If I move above 1200 calories, how do I avoid gaining weight when more exercise isn't a viable option for me?
If a veteran dieter would like to send me a message with some tips, that'd be wonderful.0 -
When you're only 4'11" tall and have a very small boned frame it makes a difference. I never post my diary or mention my calorie intake on here because people freak out saying I'm not eating enough to feed a cat.
I have tried *many* times eating 1200+ and even 1500 (easy to do, I love food) along with a lot of exercise and I still gain if I do that.
My body seems to only need between 800 and 1000 MAX if I'm working to lose weight. And if I avoid dairy and sugar my body seems to like that even better which also means I can eat more actual food and still stay within calorie goals. At that point it's easy for me to lean up and I feel great doing it. Lots of veggies and lean protein for me works well, I can eat a lot of food that way that's low in caloric intake and feel very satisfied and still lean up.
I wish I could eat 1200 to 1500 every day, including cheese and ice cream more often.. that would be awesome.. but if I want to stay fit and lean I just can't. Every person is different but this is how my body works.0 -
I hate to tell you, but that is NOT a lot protein. The average woman needs 100-125 grams/day to prevent major losses of LBM, and at least 90 grams/day, if they are "small." You're a male, hence your protein needs are much higher than that, unless you are really tiny! If you only care about "weight loss" (i.e. the number on the sale), then have at it, but if you want to lose primarily fat, then your protein intake needs to be increased!
That's debatable. The Mayo Clinic recommends getting this:
Get 10 to 35 percent of your total daily calories from protein. Protein has 4 calories a gram. Based on a 2,000-calorie-a-day diet, this amounts to about 200 to 700 calories a day, or about 50 to 175 grams a day.
The US RDA is 46-56 grams.
http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/protein.html
Even this bodybuilder stance is only double that.
"This is about double the DRI for protein (at 0.8 g/kg) at maintenance calories. So for an overweight individual at say 200 pounds and 30% body fat (this would give them an LBM of 140 lbs or 63 kg), that would be a protein intake of 95 grams of protein per day."
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/protein-intake-while-dieting-qa.html
MFP's goal for me is only 45g a day. I hit that easily without trying and I don't eat much meat or dairy.0 -
It's working really well for you. According to your ticker you've lost 5 kg in 2 years. Slow and steady wins the race. At this pace it will only take another 6 years to lose that last 15 kg. I look forward to reading your success thread in 2020.
Agreed. You have to take into account the food you are eating. You could consume all 1200 calories in a big mac, fries and thickshake (actually, I'm pretty sure that's more than 1200 calories) every day and be seriously malnourished. If you eat well every day and 1200 is appropriate for you there shouldn't be a problem. BUT: I'm set to 1200 and it's working really well for me but on days when I don't do any exercise I can't have any 'extras' - it's basic breakfast, lunch, dinner and two pieces of fruit and no creamy mushroom sauce on my steak at dinner. I have found that this is a motivating factor for me to exercise though, so there is a pro here I guess.
You have it wrong, this 5kg is relosing the same 5kg that was lost the last time on 1200...0 -
I just don't get all these tired 1200 calorie debates. Who CARES if other MFP people take issue with you breaking some rule about a rather arbitrary number?
I don't get the people who are so overly invested in what others chose to eat, to the point of damn near obsession.
I don't get the people who are doing 1200 calories, but spend so much time biting their nails over what people here think.
If you're doing 1200 calories, hell WHATEVER, and you feel good, and it's helping you meet your goals, DO YOU. I personally am not losing the "MFP way" at all, and I couldn't care less. People who take issue can kiss my ticker, and keep it moving. I suggest the same.
If you're struggling, running into issues, stalling, etc, then reach out and see if you can get some advice for helping you move forward. But all the "I feel great, but am looking for approval" threads are so worthless.0 -
I just don't get all these tired 1200 calorie debates. Who CARES if other MFP people take issue with you breaking some rule about a rather arbitrary number?
I don't get the people who are so overly invested in what others chose to eat, to the point of damn near obsession.
I don't get the people who are doing 1200 calories, but spend so much time biting their nails over what people here think.
If you're doing 1200 calories, hell WHATEVER, and you feel good, and it's helping you meet your goals, DO YOU. I personally am not losing the "MFP way" at all, and I couldn't care less. People who take issue can kiss my ticker, and keep it moving. I suggest the same.
If you're struggling, running into issues, stalling, etc, then reach out and see if you can get some advice for helping you move forward. But all the "I feel great, but am looking for approval" threads are so worthless.
^This, this, this!0 -
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If you're struggling, running into issues, stalling, etc, then reach out and see if you can get some advice for helping you move forward. But all the "I feel great, but am looking for approval" threads are so worthless.
I personally do not want to wait until I run into issues to reach out. It is not looking for approval, it is reaching out to people who have had experience and success and seeing if there are places to possibly improve or investigate more to adjust my plan.
The point of a place like this is to seek advice and support. While some of you may been around for a long time, some of us are rather new and still have questions. Most 1200 calorie threads just turn into sarcastic reponses or humurous pictures or people defending their point of view. I did not want to read through 400 posts like that to find one that answered my question.0 -
I'm one of those people who will tell people that they're not eating enough. I mean, really, someone who has 70 lbs to lose shouldn't be eating 1200 (I'm talking gross here). It's the best way to give up after a couple months.
Mostly I guess, what are they going to maintain on after... 1500? That just seems scary to me. I can't imagine that someone would be able to maintain on a reasonable amount of calories if they ate 1200 calories for months and months.0 -
I just don't get all these tired 1200 calorie debates. Who CARES if other MFP people take issue with you breaking some rule about a rather arbitrary number?
I don't get the people who are so overly invested in what others chose to eat, to the point of damn near obsession.
I don't get the people who are doing 1200 calories, but spend so much time biting their nails over what people here think.
If you're doing 1200 calories, hell WHATEVER, and you feel good, and it's helping you meet your goals, DO YOU. I personally am not losing the "MFP way" at all, and I couldn't care less. People who take issue can kiss my ticker, and keep it moving. I suggest the same.
If you're struggling, running into issues, stalling, etc, then reach out and see if you can get some advice for helping you move forward. But all the "I feel great, but am looking for approval" threads are so worthless.
Given your own rationale, on what basis did you bother taking the time and effort to post this?0
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