Someone explain why we shouldn't eat legumes
Replies
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I have posted this before about the "paleo" diet... I think it is relevant for this thread as well.
An excerpt form an interview between Chris Kresser and Mat Lalonde...
"There is really no such thing as a “paleo” diet because the foods are not available anymore. The best you can do it try to mimic it. So… a diet that’s meat, vegetables, tubers, and fruits… that’s what I call it.
Typical arguments go like this: Our ancestors and modern hunter-gatherers, who were virtually free of diseases of civilization, consumed a diet that was mostly devoid of grains, legumes, and dairy. People then make the invalid inference that consuming a diet mostly devoid of grains, legumes, and dairy will thus allow us to be free of diseases of civilization. Why is this invalid? Because it is observational and full of confounding factors ( a variable that was not observed).
You can’t observe everything, so there’s almost always going to be, especially when it comes to human beings that are very complex and multivariate that live in a very complex and multivariate environment. You are never going to see everything. So observational epidemiology is great for formulating hypotheses and asking questions, but it doesn’t answer any questions. The same is true about this statement. You know, it’s just an observation. It’s just a correlation. You can’t say for sure that, yes, it is the case that if we eat like that we’re going to avoid the diseases of civilization, so you have to be very, very careful with that.
But there are some folks who are coming from different fields, and really all they’re grasping on is this evolutionary thing, and they don’t realize that all it is really at the end of the day is a great way to formulate hypotheses. We have to be careful not to assume that correlation equals causation. That said, it is reasonable to use that as a starting place, to do some further investigation and see whether or not there is any truth to it.
Another typical argument goes like this: We evolved over millions of years without consuming the foods that became readily available only after the advent of agriculture. Hence, we’re not adapted to these foods. But this assumes that a species isn’t adapted to a food because it’s never consumed it. And if you look at the evolutionary record, that’s incorrect. There are plenty of examples throughout evolution where species discover novel sources of food and thrive on them. Like humans and meat? Humans started out by eating fruits, plants and insects. Then they scavenged marrow from bones and also brains from skulls, and eventually became some of the meanest, baddest hunters on the planet.
Thus a better statement would be… There has been insufficient time and evolutionally pressure for complete adaptation to seed consumption to arise in homo-sapiens."
My personal take on this is that there is enough correlation to encourage further investigation and personal experimentation... but at the moment very little science if any to back it up.0 -
" It’s confusing to me that grains and legumes (all beans – black, pinto, soy, peanuts, etc.) would be so pleasing to us, since they’re basically poisonous, having heavily contributed to the current, overwhelming predominance of heart disease, digestive disorders and obesity rates in this country. There are a lot of reasons for this – grains and legumes contain a sordid collection of “anti-nutrients”. Some of them strip away your minerals and some cause intestinal damage and immune problems"
Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a dang minute!!!!! No, please do NOT check that link out! So, fast food and our dependance on eating out, and eating 2-3 x the calories that we need while not exercising is NOT the reason for our obesity epidemic? I have to stop reading these message boards. I get way too mad.0 -
I don't eat Paleo but I did watch a lecture about it on YouTube... it was by the author of The Paleo Manifesto.
He said that we should not eat legumes because they are the seeds of the plant. Why not eat the seeds you ask? Because according to him and other paleo peeps, seeds of plants contain toxins to ward off animals from eating them. By eating these seeds with trace amounts of toxins overtime you build them up in your system.
He gave some examples of seeds that humans have modified through agriculture and plant breeding or something, to make them not toxic to humans anymore. I think one example he gave was cucumber, if I remember correctly.
that's hilarious. that guy is a maroon.
plants WANT animals to eat their seeds. that's why they often come packaged in brightly colored and delicious fruits!
animals eat the fruits and then go about their business. a day later, they poop out the undigested seeds at some distance from the source and the seeds now have a place to germinate and produce a new adult plant. this is how plants spread out and expand their numbers and geographic area.0 -
About a year ago I had a group dinner with some friends, and friends of friends that I didn't know. Anyway, one of the girls there was a Vegan or something, but she didn't eat legumes. I was talking to her about it and asking why she didn't eat legumes. Her answer to me was something along the lines of "Legumes come protected in shell/pod, which in her mind means that they aren't edible because that shell was put there for protection".
Whatever though. I didn't debate it cause frankly, I don't really care what she eats.0 -
I have posted this before about the "paleo" diet... I think it is relevant for this thread as well.
An excerpt form an interview between Chris Kresser and Mat Lalonde...
"There is really no such thing as a “paleo” diet because the foods are not available anymore. The best you can do it try to mimic it. So… a diet that’s meat, vegetables, tubers, and fruits… that’s what I call it.
Typical arguments go like this: Our ancestors and modern hunter-gatherers, who were virtually free of diseases of civilization, ...snip
Assumes facts not in evidence.0 -
Other than 'clean eating' you meanI know you guys love demonizing paleo...
It's not being demonized, it's being mocked. And rightfully so - it is the most illogical, inconsistent dietic nonsense I've heard in donkey's years.
There is a difference. :laugh:
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I'm not demonizing any type of diet, I think everyone should do what is best for them.
But I am soooooo tired of all these fad diets. i am fairly certain that the hype around this will fade out, just like it has done with every other diet that pops up every year.
That being said...if you try a Paleo diet and find that you can sustain it, good for you. I just happen to think a lot of these are rubbish. I think most everything is fine in MODERATION. I believe that is where a lot of people mess up. Most things are OK. They're just not ok all the time.0 -
No skin in this game I eat what I want and don't care about others intake, but the argument that paleo is good because our ancestors didn't have the same diseases we do, or were somehow healthier than us is ridiculous... unless of course you are cool with an average life expectancy of about 30 years or so... I'm 38 so I'm not.0
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Legumes and grains are high in phytates which make them not only hard to digest but they also bind to other nutrients like magnesium, iron, and calcium rendering them useless to your body.
"Phytic acid is the principal storage form of phosphorus in many plant tissues, especially the bran portion of grains and other seeds. It contains the mineral phosphorus tightly bound in a snowflake-like molecule. In humans and animals with one stomach, the phosphorus is not readily bioavailable. In addition to blocking phosphorus availability, the “arms” of the phytic acid molecule readily bind with other minerals, such as calcium, magnesium, iron and zinc, making them unavailable as well. In this form, the compound is referred to as phytate.
Phytic acid not only grabs on to or chelates important minerals, but also inhibits enzymes that we need to digest our food, including pepsin,1 needed for the breakdown of proteins in the stomach, and amylase,2 needed for the breakdown of starch into sugar. Trypsin, needed for protein digestion in the small intestine, is also inhibited by phytates.3" -Weston A. Price Foundation
If you find you are not sensitive to grains and legumes then by all means eat them however, you should ensure that you soak, sour or sprout them prior to consumption to help neutralize the phytic acid content and make them more digestible. Many people have turned to the paleo/primal or traditional foods lifestyles because they are trying to heal gut and body inflammation which is triggered by grains, legumes, soy, and pasteurized dairy. Its not a lifestyle for everyone, I have become mostly pain free from following a traditional food lifestyle and using food as medicine rather than popping pills. Healing starts from within. It may not be the choice others in this thread have chosen but we all have our own path to walk and no one should be mocked or put down for the choices they make to better their bodies
Peanuts are yummy. Peanut butter spread on bread is the best. That's enough for me.
http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA400758/Are-Phytates-Bad-or-Good.html0 -
I don't eat Paleo but I did watch a lecture about it on YouTube... it was by the author of The Paleo Manifesto.
He said that we should not eat legumes because they are the seeds of the plant. Why not eat the seeds you ask? Because according to him and other paleo peeps, seeds of plants contain toxins to ward off animals from eating them. By eating these seeds with trace amounts of toxins overtime you build them up in your system.
He gave some examples of seeds that humans have modified through agriculture and plant breeding or something, to make them not toxic to humans anymore. I think one example he gave was cucumber, if I remember correctly.
That's pretty funny, considering that seeds would be top-on-the-list of foods for easy-to-find, high-calorie foods eaten whenever possible by paleolithic man.0 -
The very first line of that makes me rage:
"Recently my boyfriend has been straying from his normal Paleo ways because he feels that grain-laden cookies are more important than his overall health and longevity"
WHAT. I only read part of that stupid article before I started blacking out from stupid and had to stop. If it came to a choice between living forever but never enjoying a "grain-laden cookie" again and dying a little sooner but full of cookies, guess what I'd choose.
I grew up fairly poor. My Mom fed us lots of beans, whole grains, and peanut butter. Why? Because they are cheap, filling, and nutritious. There is no reason why one shouldn't eat legumes, or whole grains, or cookies, or dairy, or eggs, or....., whatever, food allergies notwithstanding.*
* I mean actual food allergies/sensitivities, not " I read on the internet that this is bad, I must be intolerant to it because I've been eating it all my life and that's clearly what's made me fat!"
I think it's pretty hilarious that someone would have to *REMIND* themselves why they are avoiding a certain food. Allergies and intolerance are not soon forgotten. Silly internet blogs on the other hand...0 -
I know you guys love demonising paleo but there's a lot of good in it. Its pretty much just about stripping your diet back to basics, and then once your body has gotten rid of all the crap, reintroducing different food groups to see how/if they affect your body.
So with legumes? if you don't have bad reactions to them, then eat them. If you feel a lot better without them, don't eat them. I eat paleo but I have hummus sometimes, snowpeas with dinner etc. Nobody says you can't, because you're meant to eat about 70-80% pure paleo.
"Stripping back to basics"
=
PB&J with the crust cut off with a cold glass of chocolate milk0 -
Typical arguments go like this: Our ancestors and modern hunter-gatherers, who were virtually free of diseases of civilization
That's because so many died early due to disease and accident. The lack of civilization to provide a support network and medicine to those who are hurt, sickly, or become ill meant those people died off quickly. The strong, disease-resistant ones are the ones who lived to old age. They also led physical, non-sedentary lives so the ones who made it to old age were physically fit. Furthermore, they didn't enjoy constant caloric surplus. As a result of all this, there was nos ignificant portion of the human population developing lifestyle diseases like diabetes, and they didn't live long enough to die of things like alzheimer's or dementia. They mostly died from communicable disease, accidents, and starvation.
In other words: we largely die of "diseases of civilzation" now because we've:
1) Largely eliminated the leading causes of death among pre-civilization peoples, and
2) Significantly reduced the infant/childhood mortality that selected for strong, fit individuals.
It's not because we eat beans and barley now.0 -
About a year ago I had a group dinner with some friends, and friends of friends that I didn't know. Anyway, one of the girls there was a Vegan or something, but she didn't eat legumes. I was talking to her about it and asking why she didn't eat legumes. Her answer to me was something along the lines of "Legumes come protected in shell/pod, which in her mind means that they aren't edible because that shell was put there for protection".
Whatever though. I didn't debate it cause frankly, I don't really care what she eats.
Animals come in a protective pod, too. We make shoes out of the pods these days. Some of them are even rather hard to get into, like lobster.
They are still delicious.0 -
About a year ago I had a group dinner with some friends, and friends of friends that I didn't know. Anyway, one of the girls there was a Vegan or something, but she didn't eat legumes. I was talking to her about it and asking why she didn't eat legumes. Her answer to me was something along the lines of "Legumes come protected in shell/pod, which in her mind means that they aren't edible because that shell was put there for protection".
Whatever though. I didn't debate it cause frankly, I don't really care what she eats.
Animals come in a protective pod, too. We make shoes out of the pods these days. Some of them are even rather hard to get into, like lobster.
They are still delicious.
Hehe, I was just thinking "that's why we have thumbs." So we can get into things with hard shells.0 -
About a year ago I had a group dinner with some friends, and friends of friends that I didn't know. Anyway, one of the girls there was a Vegan or something, but she didn't eat legumes. I was talking to her about it and asking why she didn't eat legumes. Her answer to me was something along the lines of "Legumes come protected in shell/pod, which in her mind means that they aren't edible because that shell was put there for protection".
Whatever though. I didn't debate it cause frankly, I don't really care what she eats.
Animals come in a protective pod, too. We make shoes out of the pods these days. Some of them are even rather hard to get into, like lobster.
They are still delicious.
I agree 100% on eating them. Just stating what she said. I happen to love legumes, but animals don't come in a pod.0 -
About a year ago I had a group dinner with some friends, and friends of friends that I didn't know. Anyway, one of the girls there was a Vegan or something, but she didn't eat legumes. I was talking to her about it and asking why she didn't eat legumes. Her answer to me was something along the lines of "Legumes come protected in shell/pod, which in her mind means that they aren't edible because that shell was put there for protection".
Whatever though. I didn't debate it cause frankly, I don't really care what she eats.
Animals come in a protective pod, too. We make shoes out of the pods these days. Some of them are even rather hard to get into, like lobster.
They are still delicious.
Hehe, I was just thinking "that's why we have thumbs." So we can get into things with hard shells.
Speak for yourself. I have thumbs so that I can text and play Angry Birds with one hand.0 -
I know you guys love demonising paleo but there's a lot of good in it. Its pretty much just about stripping your diet back to basics, and then once your body has gotten rid of all the crap, reintroducing different food groups to see how/if they affect your body.
So with legumes? if you don't have bad reactions to them, then eat them. If you feel a lot better without them, don't eat them. I eat paleo but I have hummus sometimes, snowpeas with dinner etc. Nobody says you can't, because you're meant to eat about 70-80% pure paleo.
"Stripping back to basics"
=
PB&J with the crust cut off with a cold glass of chocolate milk
my man right here!0 -
About a year ago I had a group dinner with some friends, and friends of friends that I didn't know. Anyway, one of the girls there was a Vegan or something, but she didn't eat legumes. I was talking to her about it and asking why she didn't eat legumes. Her answer to me was something along the lines of "Legumes come protected in shell/pod, which in her mind means that they aren't edible because that shell was put there for protection".
Whatever though. I didn't debate it cause frankly, I don't really care what she eats.
Animals come in a protective pod, too. We make shoes out of the pods these days. Some of them are even rather hard to get into, like lobster.
They are still delicious.
I agree 100% on eating them. Just stating what she said. I happen to love legumes, but animals don't come in a pod.
No? What do you call the integumentary system of a cow? The exoskeleton of a crab? The shell of a turtle? Are those not protective shell/pods?0 -
The same reason that vegetarians don't eat meat, keto eaters don't eat carbs, and "clean" eaters don't eat packaged foods...................it's in their rules book.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
About a year ago I had a group dinner with some friends, and friends of friends that I didn't know. Anyway, one of the girls there was a Vegan or something, but she didn't eat legumes. I was talking to her about it and asking why she didn't eat legumes. Her answer to me was something along the lines of "Legumes come protected in shell/pod, which in her mind means that they aren't edible because that shell was put there for protection".
Whatever though. I didn't debate it cause frankly, I don't really care what she eats.
Where did she get protein? Nuts and most grains also come in a protective shell/pod.0 -
I call them the integumentary system of a cow, an exoskeleton, and a shell. None of which are pods. I did use the word shell, but should have just stated pod I suppose, but pod has a specific meaning. A shell on a legume is a pod. A shell on a turtle is a shell.About a year ago I had a group dinner with some friends, and friends of friends that I didn't know. Anyway, one of the girls there was a Vegan or something, but she didn't eat legumes. I was talking to her about it and asking why she didn't eat legumes. Her answer to me was something along the lines of "Legumes come protected in shell/pod, which in her mind means that they aren't edible because that shell was put there for protection".
Whatever though. I didn't debate it cause frankly, I don't really care what she eats.
Animals come in a protective pod, too. We make shoes out of the pods these days. Some of them are even rather hard to get into, like lobster.
They are still delicious.
I agree 100% on eating them. Just stating what she said. I happen to love legumes, but animals don't come in a pod.
No? What do you call the integumentary system of a cow? The exoskeleton of a crab? The shell of a turtle? Are those not protective shell/pods?0 -
I think it's something about lectins...0
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About a year ago I had a group dinner with some friends, and friends of friends that I didn't know. Anyway, one of the girls there was a Vegan or something, but she didn't eat legumes. I was talking to her about it and asking why she didn't eat legumes. Her answer to me was something along the lines of "Legumes come protected in shell/pod, which in her mind means that they aren't edible because that shell was put there for protection".
Whatever though. I didn't debate it cause frankly, I don't really care what she eats.
Where did she get protein? Nuts and most grains also come in a protective shell/pod.
No clue. She probably didn't. She had a sickly look to her....lol.0 -
The only explanation I got from my Paleo husband is that it's not allowed on Paleo. Nothing more than that. And then the endless list of new things that are a legume that we didn't know were one. It's exhausting. I wish I knew where Mr. Paleo lived so I could stick some legumes up his man cave.
lol.0 -
The same reason that vegetarians don't eat meat, keto eaters don't eat carbs, and "clean" eaters don't eat packaged foods...................it's in their rules book.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Keto eaters eat carbs, just not a lot of them
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The only explanation I got from my Paleo husband is that it's not allowed on Paleo. Nothing more than that. And then the endless list of new things that are a legume that we didn't know were one. It's exhausting. I wish I knew where Mr. Paleo lived so I could stick some legumes up his man cave.
this is pretty much the only REAL actual explanation that makes sense.0 -
Ok, so I can see the reasoning behind eliminating grains and dairy, but I don't understand why eating lentils and beans would lead to negative health consequences. Someone who has gone paleo, please explain. I am curious.
It doesn't matter whether one eats Paleo or not, they will not be able to explain with anything other than "a book or blog told me so".
Statistically, the two healthiest diets (more people following them long term have good health) are vegetarian and Mediterranean. Both of those typically feature a lot of legumes. That one statistic alone argues they are not “unhealthy”.
And there simply is no scientific evidence to prove otherwise.
Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
A vegetarian is the healthiest diet? Why am I even responding to this....
Its not wrong.
There are a few noted "blue zones" where people are known to live extraordinarily long. While there are no true dietary constants, being vegetarian or trending toward it (less access to meat naturally, especially non-seafood) is one of the common traits.
Though so is legume consumption, most blue zones include some or a lot of legume consumption.
I'm not a vegetarian, or even close, but I do readily acknowledge if there is a dietary link with longevity, vegetarian or mostly vegetarian would have to be considered the longevity diet.
That paleo tries to claim that title is utter rubbish.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zone0 -
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Yeah, I should have stated " don't eat a lot of carbs".The same reason that vegetarians don't eat meat, keto eaters don't eat carbs, and "clean" eaters don't eat packaged foods...................it's in their rules book.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Keto eaters eat carbs, just not a lot of them
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0
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