Question about the QUALITY (not the QUANTITY) of calories

Stage14

The last time I was on MFP, I ate 1500 "clean" calories a day plus exercise calories. I lost an average of a lb a week for 12 weeks before I just couldn't handle the stress and expense anymore. This time, I eat whatever I want within 1750 calories (TDEE method) and have lost an average of just over a lb a week, with last week being week 15.

very nice. And you feel it is easier to maintain now that you don't have "forbidden" foods?

Absolutely. I still eat plenty of "healthy" foods as well, don't get me wrong. But the ability to eat one of my husband's peanut butter cookies with my coffee or go out for ice cream or cocktails without guilt or shame is fantastic. And not having major restrictions means not having to give myself "cheat" days/meals/etc.

Joanne_Moniz

I believe that excessive sugar and fat are bad for you, however my question isn't about whether certain things are good/bad/stupid/healthy to eat, my question is just on basic biology/physiology etc.

Question: (this is for the sake of argument, and I am not intending to try EITHER extremes of diet)

Will a person lose weight at the same rate if you eat 1500 cals of bacon and donuts per day, as if you ate 1500 cals of healthy foods (veggies, lean proteins, grains, whatever you deem to be healthy)?

People always say "calories in, calories out" but I wonder if it is really true. I know everyone has a theory, but does anyone have an actual personal experience where they changed from eating "whatever they wanted" to "eating clean" or "eating healthy," or changed in the reverse direction (possibly when starting to maintain?)

I know everyone likes to quote "calories in, calories out," but I am interested in personal experience instead of ideas and theories and internet blogs. Anyone with personal experience in changing the QUALITY of their diet, please tell me: when you changed the QUALITY of your diet, in what way did you change your diet, how did it affect your weight loss, if at all?

Just curious to what people's actual experiences have been with this.

Thanks in advance!

Voodoo Lady

Joanne_Moniz

You are right. Calories in .. calories out is out the window these days... There are too many added artificial ingredients and a calorie of one food is not the same as a calorie of another.... look at vitamin water for just one example.

It is about the quality not the quantity and it unfortunate that EVERYONE does not know that and is still listening to the media but the word is spreading... thankfully.

More information is in the group, the Skinny on Obesity.

Joanne Moniz
The Skinny on Obesity Group

bcattoes

Yep-I lost over 50lbs cutting back on calories and eating fast food 3-5 times a week, lots of frozen dinners, low fat/low calorie 'diet' foods, guzzling diet soda etc etc. I also didn't do any type of exercise while I was actively losing. Blood work done during this time has never been better, including no longer having a glucose level in the pre-diabetic range.


After I went into maintenance I tried 'clean eating' and the only thing I got out of it was I became obsessive over what I ate, for the first time in my life, stressed out and frustrated. I didn't magically feel better cutting out the foods I enjoyed and I didn't look better. I did lose my period and my hair started falling out though. My sleep got messed up too (I got sucked into the 'clean'/whole foods low meat/dairy thing and my fat intake dropped dramatically). I've ditched that and have gone back to eating how I like, watching calories, aiming to hit macros and enjoying life and maintenance.

Eating so little fat that your hair falls out is not really a description of "healthy eating" though. I think this is good example of eating what one thinks of as "healthy foods" vs. eating a "healthy diet". It is possible, as the example above proves, to eat nothing but "healthy foods" and still not be eating healthy.

twixlepennie

You are right. Calories in .. calories out is out the window these days... There are too many added artificial ingredients and a calorie of one food is not the same as a calorie of another.... look at vitamin water for just one example.

It is about the quality not the quantity and it unfortunate that EVERYONE does not know that and is still listening to the media but the word is spreading... thankfully.

More information is in the group, the Skinny on Obesity.

Joanne Moniz
The Skinny on Obesity Group

And yet I lost over 50lbs eating 'junk' and my blood test results showed what eating this way did-no longer having a glucose number in the pre-diabetic range, a total cholesterol number in the 160s and being pegged 'very low risk' for heart disease. Go figure.

eta: I've spent hundreds of hours researching food/nutrition and how it relates to health, longevity of life etc. I've read all the books, watched the documentaries and lectures, read a ridiculous amount of articles etc. And what it came down to is I had to listen to my body-eating a strict 'healthy' diet was detrimental to me. Now I don't label food as 'good' or 'bad', focus on macros and I feel fantastic. Life is much better now that I've learned to listen to my body's cues.

BranMuffin86

My brother lost weight by simply taking what he normally ate and only eating half the portion. So instead of 4 hot dogs he'd only have 2 still drenched in ketchup :-P. He's lost over 70 lbs that way. At about 50 lbs lost he started exercising regularly. I figured that if this is going to be a lifestyle change then you have to allow yourself to eat what you want as long as you know that moderation is the key. I'm not saying eat crap all day, but a lil crap every now and then is ok

twixlepennie

Yep-I lost over 50lbs cutting back on calories and eating fast food 3-5 times a week, lots of frozen dinners, low fat/low calorie 'diet' foods, guzzling diet soda etc etc. I also didn't do any type of exercise while I was actively losing. Blood work done during this time has never been better, including no longer having a glucose level in the pre-diabetic range.


After I went into maintenance I tried 'clean eating' and the only thing I got out of it was I became obsessive over what I ate, for the first time in my life, stressed out and frustrated. I didn't magically feel better cutting out the foods I enjoyed and I didn't look better. I did lose my period and my hair started falling out though. My sleep got messed up too (I got sucked into the 'clean'/whole foods low meat/dairy thing and my fat intake dropped dramatically). I've ditched that and have gone back to eating how I like, watching calories, aiming to hit macros and enjoying life and maintenance.

Eating so little fat that your hair falls out is not really a description of "healthy eating" though. I think this is good example of eating what one thinks of as "healthy foods" vs. eating a "healthy diet". It is possible, as the example above proves, to eat nothing but "healthy foods" and still not be eating healthy.

Was following Dr. Fuhrman's plan (which is similar to Ornish, Caldwell, Esselstyn's plans etc)-very high amounts of veggies, fruits, whole grains, beans, ground flax seed, nutritional yeast etc etc. Meat and dairy was limited to 2-3 times a week and I totally eliminated added oils. Didn't work out so well for me

jonnythan

You are right. Calories in .. calories out is out the window these days... There are too many added artificial ingredients and a calorie of one food is not the same as a calorie of another.... look at vitamin water for just one example.

It is about the quality not the quantity and it unfortunate that EVERYONE does not know that and is still listening to the media but the word is spreading... thankfully.

More information is in the group, the Skinny on Obesity.

Joanne Moniz
The Skinny on Obesity Group

You are, as usual, totally wrong.

bcattoes

Will a person lose weight at the same rate if you eat 1500 cals of bacon and donuts per day, as if you ate 1500 cals of healthy foods (veggies, lean proteins, grains, whatever you deem to be healthy)?

I have no personal experience with eating nothing but bacon and donuts. I don't like either of those foods much. But, I would imagine that the average person would lose more quickly on a healthy diet. Bacon and donuts do not provide good nutrition. And a properly fueled body is likely to work better. Better mood, better physical health, better energy level. And these things play a role in weight loss.

Of course one does not have eat only "healthy foods" to lose weight. I can't imagine that anyone really thinks that, given the number of thin people who eat foods that most would not consider a "heatlhy food". But, from my personal experience, I lose easier when I eat a heatlhy diet. And that does means eating "healthy foods". It also means eating some foods that would not be considered healthy. There aren't really any foods that I say are off limits in my diet. But, there are foods that I limit. Foods I strive to eat more of, and some that I strive to eat less of. I do not, however, eat foods I don't like or totally deprive myself of foods I like. I find a balance of foods that l enjoy to provide an overall healthy diet.

As with most things in life, I believe balance is the key to weight control.

MinimalistShoeAddict

It works just fine: http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html

For weight loss purposes this is absolutely correct! I ate a lot of "junk food" both when I was trying to lose weight and while I was maintaining my ideal (for long distance running) weight all year. My cholesterol, blood sugar, etc remained perfect.

I use Google spreadsheets to compare my intake with my TDEE. My deficit/surplus to TDEE over time (I have recently started bulking so now eat at a small surplus) correlates almost perfectly with my weight loss/weight gain. I can assure you that in the long run the quantity (not quality) of your intake compared to your TDEE will determine your changes on the scale.

I am only answering in the context of weight loss because that is what the OP asked

Joanne_Moniz

If you are fairly new here, be aware of what we call trolls. They have nothing to do all day so they post on this site silly things... Pay no attention. You can message to not have to deal with it. It is a big world, many strange people.

mmapags

You are right. Calories in .. calories out is out the window these days... There are too many added artificial ingredients and a calorie of one food is not the same as a calorie of another.... look at vitamin water for just one example.

It is about the quality not the quantity and it unfortunate that EVERYONE does not know that and is still listening to the media but the word is spreading... thankfully.

More information is in the group, the Skinny on Obesity.

Joanne Moniz
The Skinny on Obesity Group

You are, as usual, totally wrong.

+1! What a joke. :laugh:

mmapags

If you are fairly new here, be aware of what we call trolls. They have nothing to do all day so they post on this site silly things... Pay no attention. You can message to not have to deal with it. It is a big world, many strange people.

Self disclosure?

OP, you've gotten mostly good info. Calories don't have "quality" they are a unit of measure. Getting adequate macro and micro nutrients is important, so a varied nutrient dense diet is a good thing. Too much restriction is problematic and has a diminishing rate of return along with providing no additional benefit.

I love this quote from Eric Helms a leading nutrition and fitness expert.
"Once our nutrient needs are met, we don’t get extra credit for eating more nutritious food."

jonnythan

If you are fairly new here, be aware of what we call trolls. They have nothing to do all day so they post on this site silly things... Pay no attention. You can message to not have to deal with it. It is a big world, many strange people.

Protip: if someone says you can "message" them or post in their special group, it's because their ideas and advice fall apart when subjected to criticism. They need the privacy because they look like fools when people pick apart their claims.

Mainey13

You may still lose weight eating crap because you're cutting out less crap. But think about the long-term and what you are doing to your organs. You are fueling your body with sugar, bad fats, and sodium. Why not eat healthy so you can live longer, feel stronger, feel better and feed your body the nutrients it needs. Protein, veggies, little fruit, nuts, seeds, avocado, olive oil, etc.. Aren't you worth it?

jonnythan

But, I would imagine that the average person would lose more quickly on a healthy diet.

1) Your definition of "healthy diet" is not everyone's.
2) The world does not work according to your imagination.

I_Will_End_You

If you are fairly new here, be aware of what we call trolls. They have nothing to do all day so they post on this site silly things... Pay no attention. You can message to not have to deal with it. It is a big world, many strange people.

Protip: if someone says you can "message" them or post in their special group, it's because their ideas and advice fall apart when subjected to criticism. They need the privacy because they look like fools when people pick apart their claims.

That or they're trying to sell something.

minimalistmom

When I first lost weight I ate whatever I wanted with in my calorie means and I lost weight. Then I switched to eating more balanced. I felt better overall, I still lost weight, but not fast. What I gained though from eating balanced was I lost more inches (and yes, I still had my sweet treat here and there.).

The other thing I learned about myself is if I over exercised (I was training for a marathon) I NEVER lost weight or inches, no matter how many calories I burned or how I ate. Over exercising causes me to have a suppressed immune system making me sick.

ninerbuff

If you are fairly new here, be aware of what we call trolls. They have nothing to do all day so they post on this site silly things... Pay no attention. You can message to not have to deal with it. It is a big world, many strange people.

Protip: if someone says you can "message" them or post in their special group, it's because their ideas and advice fall apart when subjected to criticism. They need the privacy because they look like fools when people pick apart their claims.

THIS.

From a professional working in the business of helping people lose weight for over 15 years now...............it's calories in/out for weight loss. Nutrients matter though. So eating strategies that provide higher nutrient profiles will help with optimum health and performance.
But one doesn't have to eat "clean" to achieve this.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

bcattoes

You are right. Calories in .. calories out is out the window these days... There are too many added artificial ingredients and a calorie of one food is not the same as a calorie of another.... look at vitamin water for just one example.

It is about the quality not the quantity and it unfortunate that EVERYONE does not know that and is still listening to the media but the word is spreading... thankfully.

More information is in the group, the Skinny on Obesity.

Joanne Moniz
The Skinny on Obesity Group

And yet I lost over 50lbs eating 'junk' and my blood test results showed what eating this way did-no longer having a glucose number in the pre-diabetic range, a total cholesterol number in the 160s and being pegged 'very low risk' for heart disease. Go figure.

eta: I've spent hundreds of hours researching food/nutrition and how it relates to health, longevity of life etc. I've read all the books, watched the documentaries and lectures, read a ridiculous amount of articles etc. And what it came down to is I had to listen to my body-eating a strict 'healthy' diet was detrimental to me. Now I don't label food as 'good' or 'bad', focus on macros and I feel fantastic. Life is much better now that I've learned to listen to my body's cues.

If you lost weight and improved your health by eating junk, why did you change your diet for maintenance? I took a look at the past couple of weeks in your food diary and saw very little food that wouldn't be considered "healthy" by most.