Question about the QUALITY (not the QUANTITY) of calories
Replies
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First: Your nuts.
It's impolite to talk about others' nuts.0 -
But, I would imagine that the average person would lose more quickly on a healthy diet.
1) Your definition of "healthy diet" is not everyone's.
2) The world does not work according to your imagination.
Yeah, and you think the importance of micronutrients is "overemphasized". Whatever. There's a hell of a lot of people walking around that are eating too much and still malnourished. Hence all the obesity and illness. Been there, done that. Have the t shirt.
Obesity doesn't come from being malnourished. It's quite the opposite.
That's why micronutrients are overemphasized, anyway. Obesity is the result of improper macronutrient intake.
What makes me see red is when people tell me I am wrong about my own experience.
Yes, improper macro nutrient intake was the START of the problem! But not originally because of quantity but because of the "low fat" myth that most of us know so well. So avoiding fat and eating a ton of "healthy" carbs is what got me headed towards a life long struggle with health and obesity....
Here's my example: since changing WHAT I eat I have resolved a long list of illnesses with ZERO willpower and little effort. Pre-diabetes, severe depression, anxiety, binge eating disorder, sleep disorder, chronic joint pain, chronic neurological disorders.... on and on an on. How else did I CURE a supposedly psychological disorders of binge eating and without counselling, willpower, medications (all of which are completely useless-for me) without the answer being NUTRIENTS? So whether you believe in it or not, it is MY experience.
Being morbidly obese and not being able to stop eating is a real physical symptom of MALNOURISHMENT. Yes, you are in the majority of people who think that can't be possible, but I'm here to tell you that YES IT IS.0 -
But, I would imagine that the average person would lose more quickly on a healthy diet.
1) Your definition of "healthy diet" is not everyone's.
2) The world does not work according to your imagination.
Yeah, and you think the importance of micronutrients is "overemphasized". Whatever. There's a hell of a lot of people walking around that are eating too much and still malnourished. Hence all the obesity and illness. Been there, done that. Have the t shirt.
Obesity doesn't come from being malnourished. It's quite the opposite.
That's why micronutrients are overemphasized, anyway. Obesity is the result of improper macronutrient intake.
Yet obese people can still be malnourished.
Well I suppose that technically all obese people are by definition malnourished. Mal- as a prefix simply means bad or wrong. Obese people are overnourished. But it's fairly rare for obese people to suffer from insufficient nutrient intake of any kind.0 -
Yep-I lost over 50lbs cutting back on calories and eating fast food 3-5 times a week, lots of frozen dinners, low fat/low calorie 'diet' foods, guzzling diet soda etc etc. I also didn't do any type of exercise while I was actively losing. Blood work done during this time has never been better, including no longer having a glucose level in the pre-diabetic range.
After I went into maintenance I tried 'clean eating' and the only thing I got out of it was I became obsessive over what I ate, for the first time in my life, stressed out and frustrated. I didn't magically feel better cutting out the foods I enjoyed and I didn't look better. I did lose my period and my hair started falling out though. My sleep got messed up too (I got sucked into the 'clean'/whole foods low meat/dairy thing and my fat intake dropped dramatically). I've ditched that and have gone back to eating how I like, watching calories, aiming to hit macros and enjoying life and maintenance.
I love that you said this because he same thing happened to me. Only thing is I got stressed from it that I ended up binging and gaining a ton. Now am working on eating whatever in a cal range and I'm happier.
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Yes, improper macro nutrient intake was the START of the problem! But not originally because of quantity but because of the "low fat" myth that most of us know so well. So avoiding fat and eating a ton of "healthy" carbs is what got me headed towards a life long struggle with health and obesity....
Carbs and fat are macronutrients. It doesn't sound like your problems were the result of poor vitamin intake.0 -
I love this thread. I consider myself a clean-eater (maybe not to the EXTREME, but I definitely eat a lot of fruits, vegetables, etc.) and feel terribly guilty when I eat something maybe not considered clean.0
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If we forgo the body's necessity for essential nutrients then my answer is below:
There is suggestive evidence that indicates there may be a link between certain nutrients and their ability to increase the body's motabolism. I'm not certain how legitimate this all is, but if there is truth, then it would make a difference in weightloss. If this is true, the the quality of the calories would matter greatly, however if this is false, then it wouldn't matter at all as your body breaks down most macro nutrients into the same pieces anyways regardless of their quality.... for the most part
However, from personal experience, I noticed significent differences when adjusting the quality of calories I consumed. the main one being, the amount of energy I had to actually go to the gym. After a few days of eating a more natural diet (fruits veggies etc) I found myself wanting to be active. This in turn boosted my weightloss. When I ate a more junk food style diet all I wanted to do was sleep. There were days that I would eat pizza and want to go to bed right after.
*both diets were at about the same caloric value, but I would a few more lbs eating healthy, which can most likely be attributed to my increased gym activity.
^^^^ What this guy said
If you ate 1500 calories worth of bacon and doughnuts, you would probably still be hungry, due to the small amount you would have in comparison to fruit/veggies, etc. I too dislike having to eat "clean" constantly, depriving myself of foods I enjoy, as opposed to foods that are "good" for me, but I do find I have far more energy whilst eating "clean" than if I ate pizza or something else that is deemed unhealthy.
After 7 months, I've actually grown to craving "clean" foods over takeaway food/processed foods. I enjoy eating fruit and veg, whereas at one point, I would go for "junk" over fruit or veg. Still though, I do enjoy the odd Resses peanut butter cup or Chinese takeout!0 -
I love this thread. I consider myself a clean-eater (maybe not to the EXTREME, but I definitely eat a lot of fruits, vegetables, etc.) and feel terribly guilty when I eat something maybe not considered clean.
You don't feel this is a problem? No one should feel guilty about eating something. That is one of the pitfalls of 'clean' eating (as other posters have already pointed out).0 -
I believe that excessive sugar and fat are bad for you, however my question isn't about whether certain things are good/bad/stupid/healthy to eat, my question is just on basic biology/physiology etc.
Question: (this is for the sake of argument, and I am not intending to try EITHER extremes of diet)
Will a person lose weight at the same rate if you eat 1500 cals of bacon and donuts per day, as if you ate 1500 cals of healthy foods (veggies, lean proteins, grains, whatever you deem to be healthy)?
People always say "calories in, calories out" but I wonder if it is really true. I know everyone has a theory, but does anyone have an actual personal experience where they changed from eating "whatever they wanted" to "eating clean" or "eating healthy," or changed in the reverse direction (possibly when starting to maintain?)
I know everyone likes to quote "calories in, calories out," but I am interested in personal experience instead of ideas and theories and internet blogs. Anyone with personal experience in changing the QUALITY of their diet, please tell me: when you changed the QUALITY of your diet, in what way did you change your diet, how did it affect your weight loss, if at all?
Just curious to what people's actual experiences have been with this.
Thanks in advance!
Voodoo Lady0 -
Fortunately for all the na sayers... we have proof! Try reducing your sugar to 10 percent of your calories and see what happens and see it happen FAST!0
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i call dibs in being in the doughnut bacon group
PCOS'er here max lost on MFP was 75lbs pretty much portion control, removing sugared caloric drinks (besides alcohol), and exercise. Never went low carb and never removed any food from my diet unless I was in a binge trigger mode. Went from never thinking I could become pregnant to now 35 weeks pregnant due to loss.0 -
Fortunately for all the na sayers... we have proof! Try reducing your sugar to 10 percent of your calories and see what happens and see it happen FAST!
I almost totally eliminated sugar (including fructose) during my 'clean' eating experiment-nothing magical happened, except I missed eating the foods that I actually liked eating.0 -
This is my opinion, but as a former endurance athlete, I would tell you what worked. It is not about counting calories if you eat clean. Clean though needs to be defined. It is for me, no dairy, grains, bad oils, sugar/sweetener, chemicals, or anything processed. When I did X Fit, they preach from a book called is starts with food. Great book, and yes, I did the 30 Day Whole Food Challenge (did it for 33 days) and I did not count one calorie, ate enough that I was full, and felt amazing and in 33 days, lost 15 pounds. But things like Paleo and Whole 30 day challenges are not about weight loss. They are about awareness and lifestyle changes. Today, for my own challenge, I am doing 90% clean eating and it is working...And while I log my cals, I don't worry about them.0
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I love this thread. I consider myself a clean-eater (maybe not to the EXTREME, but I definitely eat a lot of fruits, vegetables, etc.) and feel terribly guilty when I eat something maybe not considered clean.
Totally get you on the guilt-labeling food 'good' and 'bad' led to extreme stress and anxiety for me, which wasn't healthy at all.0 -
Nothing happens except a possible difference in mood and (eventually) a change in taste (or serious craving) for sweets, assuming that you're not using the reduction of sugar as a stealth method of reducing calories in general.Fortunately for all the na sayers... we have proof! Try reducing your sugar to 10 percent of your calories and see what happens and see it happen FAST!
Almost every time folks advocate cutting out sugar, what they end up advocating is cutting out desserts, which just means they're eliminating a few hundred calories from their daily intake. They'd lose the same weight if they opted not to eat a burger of the same caloric value every day, or a chef salad.0 -
Fortunately for all the na sayers... we have proof! Try reducing your sugar to 10 percent of your calories and see what happens and see it happen FAST!
Where's this mythical proof?0 -
I worry about the quality of my calories all the time...
"Will this donut taste as good as a beer"
"Will the caramel apple crisp this restaurant taste as good as the other half of my meal"
"What tastes better, 3 slices of microwaved bacon or two slices of pan fried pork bacon"
and..
Donuts taste better than standard mass produced american beer but not as good as a good microbrew
The other half of my meal can be taken home in a box to have for lunch tomorrow so I'll have that apple crisp.
With eggs, pork bacon. In breakfast muffins, hopping john and a few other recipes, I'll save the calories and use the turkey bacon, but if the bacon stands alone or is the star of a dish, it's real bacon or I will make, order, whatever something else.
Thats why I like Mexican beer so much more satifying than a doughnut...MMMMM Negro Modelo (how I miss you :sad: )0 -
I've done that and all I got for my troubles (in addition to not being able to eat anything I like) was brain fog, being weak all the time, and getting random attacks of blackouts and shakes.Fortunately for all the na sayers... we have proof! Try reducing your sugar to 10 percent of your calories and see what happens and see it happen FAST!
I'm not sure why you would think that's something to aspire to.0 -
Oh? That's it?
Brb, going to start a 30 day Snickers bar bulk diet0 -
It is easy to see who the trolls are. They have thousands of posts. But sometimes they make new identities. The same person has many identities. MFP advises to report these people.
There are many people who believe that it is possible that the food industry places people on these sites... food for thought.
Joanne, please go back to your fear mongering group and stop instigating/flame baiting. It's getting old.
Also, post count =/= automatic troll. Again, please stop creating drama.0 -
so if one ate lets say pizza all day or snickers bars or donuts non stop they would lose same rate as if this person was eating just apples and whole grain rice all day?
I always well fall for the low carb plan and find that maybe it worked for me in the past however, my appetite for it is like non stop. I went so low carb that I figure less = better, but no diff i just was super hungry for meat and more of it. Then now I've been watching my calories alot more and lighter side of what I was having, however the weight loss well it was fine for few weeks then stopped. I wasn't upset with it but figure I was going to keep it going by having reduced my calories by over 500+. However, I got the feeling my fiber is whats weighing me down because I started having these flat wraps (flatouts and another lower carb high fiber wrap) they seem to be full of fiber and I tend to have not as much thirst as I did with meat. SO I don't tend to drink enough and end up weighing a bit higher at same calories that was causing weight loss. THen some days goes down and back up but still same amount..
I tried even doing a candy approach maybe my whole foods all time even tho now all i crave is whole foods but i figure maybe eating whole all the time my body is to use to it and if i tried eating something normally wouldn't like some milkyways or snikers or m&ms like funsize pieces and minis at each meal maybe it will change my way my body is thinking of things. However, no change tho my fiber was still high..
TOday finally finished those wraps up so no more to those rather keep to fresh apple slices or prunes or real fruit or fiber packed sources from natural sources.
So i'm thinking that may be one factor that is holding me back.
and then the next thing thats on my mind is eating enough. I notice two days this week felt hungry so had like over my norm amount was trying below 1500 and having 1390-1440 and then past two days had 1700-1800 and even tho first day no effect then next I was up a pound well just a bit near a whole pound. However I was having loads of fiber and was constipated as well. The next day did back to 1440 and wasn't really hungry so just ate that amount had few prunes and then was feeling better checked my self and was down 1.5 pound fast so felt better. However today constipated finishing up those wraps lol sorry about the going and constipation talk lol .. but fiber does seem be issue for me. I figure ok now that done with fiber being so high and figure maybe going back to whole foods or yet like either enjoying something different splurign and eating things i haven't for a long time that i always wonder how they taste like getting those frozen organic pizzas or creating some delicious buckwheat pancakes with fresh blueberries and so many more or even digging in some funsize candy bars.
However is it honestly the truth that calories do make all the difference?
I do know protein burns 30 more calories being digested so 100 calories of protein you would only be intaking 70calories worth
and fiber i don't know how true that one is but every gram burns 7 calories. heard from that f-diet or something like that all about fiber etc..
but i do wonder like sometimes when i did low carb i was eating over 2000 and losing well but when i went to under 1800 or so i would stall or not lose and even lower 1400 i felt hungry and starved and didn't lose nothing even felt like gaining..
right now today i wanted to test the high amount again plus felt hungry so had 1778 calories today.
though not sure if its really the amount going to make me gain even tho same did nothing before just that i am constipated seems to play a role. but do you guys even think that maybe its ok to have a range instead of a single amount like
maybe the range of 1500-1800 or like something around that or well depending on how much you eat now?
I only eat more if hungry don't do it cause i want too plus i notice if i don't eat anymore and feel hungry I tend to just go to bed early at night so i can make it through to breakfast because i'm hungry lol
sorry for this long post hope if anyone can reply be very greatful thank you 0 -
I've tried changing my diet to just "clean" foods a few times and never lost any significant weight. I had always heard it was certain types of foods or excess carbs or too much sugar that makes people fat. Until I found this site I didn't realize how much food I was eating. it didn't matter that I only ate whole grains, chicken breast, fish and fruits and veggies... I was still eating way too many calories whether I had my York Peppermint Patties or not. SO glad I found this site...0
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I knew when I started that it is not so much about counting calories, though that helps, but more about eliminating bad habits, and learning to limit my intake of sweet foods and fat-laden foods, like biscuits and crisps. Once I eventually get down to goal weight, and it is going to take a long time, I don't want to suddenly feel I can eat anything I like... that is the way to pile the weight back on again.
So I am hoping new habits of regular exercise, and learning to stop helping myself to yet another biscuit, will keep this weight off for the rest of my life... probably a max. of 20 years to go!! But unless I lose the weight, it will only be half that time, so the incentive is there, to lose the weight slowly but surely, and then keep it off!0 -
If we forgo the body's necessity for essential nutrients then my answer is below:
There is suggestive evidence that indicates there may be a link between certain nutrients and their ability to increase the body's motabolism. I'm not certain how legitimate this all is, but if there is truth, then it would make a difference in weightloss. If this is true, the the quality of the calories would matter greatly, however if this is false, then it wouldn't matter at all as your body breaks down most macro nutrients into the same pieces anyways regardless of their quality.... for the most part
However, from personal experience, I noticed significent differences when adjusting the quality of calories I consumed. the main one being, the amount of energy I had to actually go to the gym. After a few days of eating a more natural diet (fruits veggies etc) I found myself wanting to be active. This in turn boosted my weightloss. When I ate a more junk food style diet all I wanted to do was sleep. There were days that I would eat pizza and want to go to bed right after.
*both diets were at about the same caloric value, but I would a few more lbs eating healthy, which can most likely be attributed to my increased gym activity.
^^^^ What this guy said
If you ate 1500 calories worth of bacon and doughnuts, you would probably still be hungry, due to the small amount you would have in comparison to fruit/veggies, etc. I too dislike having to eat "clean" constantly, depriving myself of foods I enjoy, as opposed to foods that are "good" for me, but I do find I have far more energy whilst eating "clean" than if I ate pizza or something else that is deemed unhealthy.
After 7 months, I've actually grown to craving "clean" foods over takeaway food/processed foods. I enjoy eating fruit and veg, whereas at one point, I would go for "junk" over fruit or veg. Still though, I do enjoy the odd Resses peanut butter cup or Chinese takeout!
Are you kidding me? Bacon is only 60 cals per slice. A doughnut is roughly 300 calories. I doubt i could stuff myself with 1500 calories worth. I could do about 600-800 maybe. (ETA: I am normally full to the gills after two doughnuts and a glass of milk or coffee)0 -
Fortunately for all the na sayers... we have proof! Try reducing your sugar to 10 percent of your calories and see what happens and see it happen FAST!
I almost totally eliminated sugar (including fructose) during my 'clean' eating experiment-nothing magical happened, except I missed eating the foods that I actually liked eating.
I can say the same. I avoided sucrose because I thought you had to in order to lose weight. Thank God I learned the truth!0 -
This is my opinion, but as a former endurance athlete, I would tell you what worked. It is not about counting calories if you eat clean. Clean though needs to be defined. It is for me, no dairy, grains, bad oils, sugar/sweetener, chemicals, or anything processed. When I did X Fit, they preach from a book called is starts with food. Great book, and yes, I did the 30 Day Whole Food Challenge (did it for 33 days) and I did not count one calorie, ate enough that I was full, and felt amazing and in 33 days, lost 15 pounds. But things like Paleo and Whole 30 day challenges are not about weight loss. They are about awareness and lifestyle changes. Today, for my own challenge, I am doing 90% clean eating and it is working...And while I log my cals, I don't worry about them.
Bad oils?
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This is my opinion, but as a former endurance athlete, I would tell you what worked. It is not about counting calories if you eat clean. Clean though needs to be defined. It is for me, no dairy, grains, bad oils, sugar/sweetener, chemicals, or anything processed. When I did X Fit, they preach from a book called is starts with food. Great book, and yes, I did the 30 Day Whole Food Challenge (did it for 33 days) and I did not count one calorie, ate enough that I was full, and felt amazing and in 33 days, lost 15 pounds. But things like Paleo and Whole 30 day challenges are not about weight loss. They are about awareness and lifestyle changes. Today, for my own challenge, I am doing 90% clean eating and it is working...And while I log my cals, I don't worry about them.
So what is your diet comprised of that is chemical free and unprocessed?0 -
I knew when I started that it is not so much about counting calories, though that helps, but more about eliminating bad habits, and learning to limit my intake of sweet foods and fat-laden foods, like biscuits and crisps. Once I eventually get down to goal weight, and it is going to take a long time, I don't want to suddenly feel I can eat anything I like... that is the way to pile the weight back on again.
So I am hoping new habits of regular exercise, and learning to stop helping myself to yet another biscuit, will keep this weight off for the rest of my life... probably a max. of 20 years to go!! But unless I lose the weight, it will only be half that time, so the incentive is there, to lose the weight slowly but surely, and then keep it off!
Thing is, you can eat anything you like, as long as you stay within your allotted calories. It really is that simple (barring some medical problem someone may have). Yesterday I enjoyed ice cream and cookies for snacks-still came in under my maintenance calories for the day. Life is good :happy:0 -
Last year one on day I logged over 5k calories. This included at least a litre and a half of sugary drink. a big bar of chocolate, crisps and various other stuff.
The scales were still down the next day - I burned over 6k calories. Suspect I was also healthier for it, overall.0 -
This is my opinion, but as a former endurance athlete, I would tell you what worked. It is not about counting calories if you eat clean. Clean though needs to be defined. It is for me, no dairy, grains, bad oils, sugar/sweetener, chemicals, or anything processed. When I did X Fit, they preach from a book called is starts with food. Great book, and yes, I did the 30 Day Whole Food Challenge (did it for 33 days) and I did not count one calorie, ate enough that I was full, and felt amazing and in 33 days, lost 15 pounds. But things like Paleo and Whole 30 day challenges are not about weight loss. They are about awareness and lifestyle changes. Today, for my own challenge, I am doing 90% clean eating and it is working...And while I log my cals, I don't worry about them.
So what is your diet comprised of that is chemical free and unprocessed?
I am not saying I eat a perfectly clean diet. Clean for me is avoiding any boxed or processed items, and eating whole foods and organic/free range when possible. I hunt/fish so I have Elk, Moose, Venison, and fish from the Ocean. I try to buy free range chicken and grass fed beef when on sale.
I buy organic veggies and fruit when possible and stay clear of dairy other than organic grass fed butter.
I do use protein powder (MRM). I had tried a "healthier" option from Whole Foods but it was 3x the price and tasted like crap
I use coconut milk and coconut oil
Typical meals for me are Sausage with veggies, some fruits, raw almonds/cashews, and things like dates/raisins. I do still buy some processed items. Not perfect here. When I have an option, I will go raw. I do eat Lara bars, but they are pretty healthy.0
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