I'm a Chauvinist?

MaiLinna

I open the door for everyone and commonly stand out in the snow to hold the door open for families walking into a restaurant I was about to walk into.

Fiance usually gets the inside door for the families because despite pleading he can't get me to move. :P

Fullsterkur_woman

You are correct. I should have done a better job with my wording.

I may die of shock. This sort of interaction is unprecedented on the internet! :happy:
May I reflect what I think you might have meant? Perhaps you were thinking that it was the father's responsibility to teach his sons how to behave like a gentleman? If so, I will certainly agree with that. I just happen to think it's equally the mother's responsibility. One parent's action or inaction does not negate the other's responsibility, even if there is a mother and a father in the picture. Every parent is 100% responsible for his or her child (until adulthood, of course). It's like marriage-- it's not a 50/50% proposition. It's a 100%/100% proposition.

Are we pretty much on the same page?

cuinboston2014

I fully expect someone to hold a door for me - particularly a man.

Oh my word! You must go through life positively filled with disappointment! I think manners are something you're supposed to practice without expecting them in return. That way you can be pleasantly surprised when you encounter them.

I am, however, appalled at the idea that someone would berate someone else for having the audacity to hold the door for them. /shudder

I'm not disappointed. I believe in teh courtesy of human beings. I am polite and well mannered regardless of those around me. But thank you for believing I shuold be filled with disappointment. I will definitely try to be more pessimistic going forward and less believing in random kindness and manners from other people.

I did not "berate" anyone. I called him out teasingly around his friends who i also talk with/joke with frequently. I would hardly call that berating.

Sorry I did not word my response correctly

AZ_Gato

You are correct. I should have done a better job with my wording.

I may die of shock. This sort of interaction is unprecedented on the internet! :happy:
May I reflect what I think you might have meant? Perhaps you were thinking that it was the father's responsibility to teach his sons how to behave like a gentleman? If so, I will certainly agree with that. I just happen to think it's equally the mother's responsibility. One parent's action or inaction does not negate the other's responsibility, even if there is a mother and a father in the picture. Every parent is 100% responsible for his or her child (until adulthood, of course). It's like marriage-- it's not a 50/50% proposition. It's a 100%/100% proposition.

Are we pretty much on the same page?

Oh now you're just putting words in my mouth. Typical woman.

; )

MyChocolateDiet

Okay so I'm at risk of sounding extremely chauvinistic here, but so many women I know on MFP and in real life always feel obligated to show their sons the importance of being a gentleman. In my opinion, this is the father's responsibility to show them how to be a man.

Yep, you sure do. Not everybody has a father in their life (for a variety of reasons, none of which require you to pass judgment on), and not every mother has the luxury of delegating the responsibility of teaching human decency to their children. I'm pretty sure you don't need a penis to teach someone how to behave like a gentleman. Are girls raised by their fathers doomed to a lifetime of un-ladylike behavior (whatever TF that means...)?

Don't be so haste to say that I'm passing judgement. I do correct myself in that I should have noted that "if there is a father figure" in the son's life.

I didn't really feel the need to write an entire essay on listing all the other factors...just a quick forum post. We're being nice here people : )

Then here's a helpful tip. If you preface what you're saying with "at the risk of sounding whatever", that's your red flag that other people are going to think that you sound whatever. What inevitably follows "I don't mean to sound racist, but..."?

You are correct. I should have done a better job with my wording.

Also Gato, at the risk of sounding correct, I think the examples above of where there is an absent father are true, but also that even in a two parent home the mother can help teach by showing that she expects her boy to do certain things while the father is working and also by allowing the husband to do certain things for her in front of the child so teaching through modeling which is I think what you might have meant. Both teachings work in concert to develop a responsible child. IMO.

CassandraBurgos83

Last night my wife travelled about 80 miles to help my daughter pack up her apartment in preparation for moving. As my wife was walking up the walkway to the apartment building, a College student (male) walked ahead of her, opened the door, entered, and let it shut on my wife. My wife had a vacuum cleaner in one hand and a carpet cleaner in the other.

I know the kid didn't do anything wrong, but, when my wife called last night and told me, it plssed me off.

What happened to manners? Opening doors for other people? Giving up your seat to a woman or an older person? Standing when a woman enters the room?

These are just common courtesies that we were raised to practice. Does showing courtesy and/or deference make me a Chauvinist?

One thing that I have noticed over tha last few years is that when I open a door for someone and let them enter ahead of me, they are surprised. Is it that uncommon now?

I'm a little dissappointed. People are so self-involved. Half the younger people I see these days have ear buds in and are looking down at their cell phone, texting. They don't even know what is going on around them. But, I guess, I prefer to thing that they are unaware than intentionally rude.

It's not these college kids' fault that they are being oblivious to common courtesy. It's their parents' fault for not raising better citizens. I have a 12 and 16 year old, they've been taught to hold doors open, to say please and thank you, to make eye contact, to shake a hand with a firm grip, and to generally do to others as they'd have done unto them.

I feel that with each passing generation, we lose a little bit more of our humanity.

I couldn't agree more! I love how you are raising your boys and I take pride in rearing my children the same way.

_Tink_

When I was 9 months pregnant I was leaving a store with my arms full of my purchases. An elderly couple was entering, so I stepped back as the man held the door for his wife to walk through. He made eye contact with me, nodded at me, and let the door close in my face. Discourteous behavior doesn't exclusively belong to the younger generation.

MyChocolateDiet

Last night my wife travelled about 80 miles to help my daughter pack up her apartment in preparation for moving. As my wife was walking up the walkway to the apartment building, a College student (male) walked ahead of her, opened the door, entered, and let it shut on my wife. My wife had a vacuum cleaner in one hand and a carpet cleaner in the other.

I know the kid didn't do anything wrong, but, when my wife called last night and told me, it plssed me off.

What happened to manners? Opening doors for other people? Giving up your seat to a woman or an older person? Standing when a woman enters the room?

These are just common courtesies that we were raised to practice. Does showing courtesy and/or deference make me a Chauvinist?

One thing that I have noticed over tha last few years is that when I open a door for someone and let them enter ahead of me, they are surprised. Is it that uncommon now?

I'm a little dissappointed. People are so self-involved. Half the younger people I see these days have ear buds in and are looking down at their cell phone, texting. They don't even know what is going on around them. But, I guess, I prefer to thing that they are unaware than intentionally rude.

It's not these college kids' fault that they are being oblivious to common courtesy. It's their parents' fault for not raising better citizens. I have a 12 and 16 year old, they've been taught to hold doors open, to say please and thank you, to make eye contact, to shake a hand with a firm grip, and to generally do to others as they'd have done unto them.

I feel that with each passing generation, we lose a little bit more of our humanity.

uh oh, generalizations, maybe i should have left my post as it was?


I couldn't agree more! I love how you are raising your boys and I take pride in rearing my children the same way.

Fullsterkur_woman

I fully expect someone to hold a door for me - particularly a man.

Oh my word! You must go through life positively filled with disappointment! I think manners are something you're supposed to practice without expecting them in return. That way you can be pleasantly surprised when you encounter them.

I am, however, appalled at the idea that someone would berate someone else for having the audacity to hold the door for them. /shudder

I'm not disappointed. I believe in teh courtesy of human beings. I am polite and well mannered regardless of those around me. But thank you for believing I shuold be filled with disappointment. I will definitely try to be more pessimistic going forward and less believing in random kindness and manners from other people.

I did not "berate" anyone. I called him out teasingly around his friends who i also talk with/joke with frequently. I would hardly call that berating.

Sorry I did not word my response correctly

No, no, no! Please allow me to correct the misunderstanding. I was talking about two different things! I'm so sorry! I meant it was awful for people to berate someone when that person has in fact shown them courtesy and held the door for them.

I think it's wonderful that you show courtesy, and I'm not trying to get you to be pessimistic. I think what I was saying says more about my mindset and upbringing, which admittedly was very negative and pessimistic. If I went around expecting good manners from people, I would have a stroke from getting mad when they failed to display them.

This thread is so refreshing. I came in here to get my hate on, and I can't even feel anything but niceness at how constructive and appropriate everyone's being. I'm serious.

Fullsterkur_woman

Typical woman.

; )

I am anything but that. Ask anyone who knows me.

MyChocolateDiet

When I was 9 months pregnant I was leaving a store with my arms full of my purchases. An elderly couple was entering, so I stepped back as the man held the door for his wife to walk through. He made eye contact with me, nodded at me, and let the door close in my face. Discourteous behavior doesn't exclusively belong to the younger generation.

This was probably the result of that man being aware of those who balk at a man holding the door for a woman. He probably had heard of this and was confused trying to figure out where you stood on this. You're confidence and youth may have led him to mistakenly beleive you were "one of those" and he thought he was doing right by you.

MyChocolateDiet

Really though, I hold the door open for everyone and anyone

ditto

TheRoadDog

If the kid had let the door shut on a guy with his hands full, would you still have been pissed? I think manners go both ways.

If the kid had let the door shut on a guy I wouldn't have heard about it. I have a wife and three daughters, but, yes, it would have been rude either way. The intent of my original post was meant to be about courtesy in general, not deferential treatment towards women.

However, I DO treat women with deference and make no apologies about it. That's how my father treated my mother.

I am always going to hold the door open for others, regardless of gender, age or number of people passing through the door.

I can see by the mixed comments that not everyone agrees. To those people, I say, luckily the chance that we will ever encounter each other is slim, but, if we do, I'm going to hold the door for you. Get over it.

Fullsterkur_woman

I can see by the mixed comments that not everyone agrees. To those people, I say, luckily the chance that we will ever encounter each other is slim, but, if we do, I'm going to hold the door for you. Get over it.

And I will thank you graciously, or at the very least smile and nod if I am in the middle of a sentence while speaking with someone else. It's a shame that people can't just accept a kindness graciously.

MyChocolateDiet

I fully expect someone to hold a door for me - particularly a man.

Oh my word! You must go through life positively filled with disappointment! I think manners are something you're supposed to practice without expecting them in return. That way you can be pleasantly surprised when you encounter them.

I am, however, appalled at the idea that someone would berate someone else for having the audacity to hold the door for them. /shudder

I'm not disappointed. I believe in teh courtesy of human beings. I am polite and well mannered regardless of those around me. But thank you for believing I shuold be filled with disappointment. I will definitely try to be more pessimistic going forward and less believing in random kindness and manners from other people.

I did not "berate" anyone. I called him out teasingly around his friends who i also talk with/joke with frequently. I would hardly call that berating.

Sorry I did not word my response correctly

I hold doors open for people and expect them to do the same. IF they don't, I right away grab the door and hurry through it so I can catch up to them and kick them. (and then I walk away telling myself it was because I'm black...even though I'm not.)

Fullsterkur_woman

Oh, here's a question though. Am I rude if I insist on continuing to carry or move something on my own after someone offers to help me? I'm proud of being strong and capable. Moreover, if I am already in the middle of, say, changing the water bottle on the office cooler, it's really a one-person job, so offering to help me is a bit awkward. I'd feel really weird stepping back and saying "sure, thanks, have at it!"

Fullsterkur_woman

I hold doors open for people and expect them to do the same. IF they don't, I right away grab the door and hurry through it so I can catch up to them and kick them. (and then I walk away telling myself it was because I'm black...even though I'm not.)

I don't mean to sound racist, but... that was funny!

cuinboston2014

I hold doors open for people and expect them to do the same. IF they don't, I right away grab the door and hurry through it so I can catch up to them and kick them. (and then I walk away telling myself it was because I'm black...even though I'm not.)

I don't mean to sound racist, but... that was funny!

LOL I agree - this is very funny.

And fullster - sorry I did misunderstand your response to mine but glad we are on the same page

Azexas

Oh, here's a question though. Am I rude if I insist on continuing to carry or move something on my own after someone offers to help me? I'm proud of being strong and capable. Moreover, if I am already in the middle of, say, changing the water bottle on the office cooler, it's really a one-person job, so offering to help me is a bit awkward. I'd feel really weird stepping back and saying "sure, thanks, have at it!"

I don't think its rude to take care of it yourself. If it was me I would just say "no thanks, I'm good". I think it depends on the delivery. I change the water cooler bottle at work ALL the time, because apparently I am the only one who knows how to. Only once has someone asked if I had it, and to holler if I needed help.

Fullsterkur_woman

Oh, here's a question though. Am I rude if I insist on continuing to carry or move something on my own after someone offers to help me? I'm proud of being strong and capable. Moreover, if I am already in the middle of, say, changing the water bottle on the office cooler, it's really a one-person job, so offering to help me is a bit awkward. I'd feel really weird stepping back and saying "sure, thanks, have at it!"

I don't think its rude to take care of it yourself. If it was me I would just say "no thanks, I'm good". I think it depends on the delivery. I change the water cooler bottle at work ALL the time, because apparently I am the only one who knows how to. Only once has someone asked if I had it, and to holler if I needed help.

Cool. I think one time I did let one coworker do it for me, because I know he is older and from Mexico and polite to a fault and I would not want to hurt his feelings by rejecting his help. One of my younger co-workers, I just tell him, "please, I can deadlift you." :laugh:

ekz13

Oh, here's a question though. Am I rude if I insist on continuing to carry or move something on my own after someone offers to help me? I'm proud of being strong and capable. Moreover, if I am already in the middle of, say, changing the water bottle on the office cooler, it's really a one-person job, so offering to help me is a bit awkward. I'd feel really weird stepping back and saying "sure, thanks, have at it!"

nope its better than the person who will stand there all huffy and spoiled looking at the door or looking at the box and saying, I expect you to help me with this or open this. It's polite to offer to help, but sometimes you gotta do it yourself (1 person job)

Cheri_Moves

Male Chauvinist? Absolutely not.
Gentleman? Absolutely.

dbmata

I'm happy with where this thread has gone! So very nice.

MaryJane_8810002

I held the door for an older couple yesterday and they were surprised. To me that was just common courtesy. What the hell is going on in our society?

clarkeje1

I know there are a lot of people that will open doors for people. I do it, and I see a lot of other people do it. It must be a hit or miss kinda thing.

harvo

I am mid-40's and my mother would throat punch me if she saw me do anything like that...I get looked at funny because I hold doors for women, the elderly and anyone at any time....If it is a big group and I have somwhere to be I will let go when a teen is walking thru just so he will have to. I hate that it seems like I am the only one that offers help. (by the way people look at me).

michael1976_ca

i agree with the most part i would give up my seat to any one, i would and still do hold the door open for people its just some thing built in from when i was young just like manners please and thank you. the one i would have trouble with is Standing when a woman enters the room is that every time no matter what room your in. i might as well stay standing. sorry i've just not been tought that one. also from back in the day i had a certain time to be home there was no staying out late like kids today

harvo

And when I was in my mid 20's I was teaching my step kids about being polite and they had a sense of it because my Grandfather had a crippled leg. One day me and the kids were at the mall and I was holding the door for an elderly couple when kid zigs around them and slides thru the door....I am not totally sure how he accidentally kicked my foot and went sprawling on the floor. My kids asked what happened and why I stuck my foot out...my answer "Karma"

harvo

i agree with the most part i would give up my seat to any one, i would and still do hold the door open for people its just some thing built in from when i was young just like manners please and thank you. the one i would have trouble with is Standing when a woman enters the room is that every time no matter what room your in. i might as well stay standing. sorry i've just not been tought that one

AMEN, I have smacked my kids in the head for not getting out of a seat when a lady or someone elderly walks in with no place to sit....

MyChocolateDiet

I'm happy with where this thread has gone! So very nice.

I think you may have spoken too soon. There is now throat punching and head smacking going on, in the name of manners no less. Is THIS finally irony guise? Is it?