Toe walker and squats

Care76

Well first of all, what kind of shoes do you wear when you squat?

Second, are you pushing your knees out and sitting back? It sounds like you're leaning too far foward.

Some people find, that in the interim, it can help to "scruntch" your toes in a little to keep from rocking forward while you get a better feel for working off your heals.

In the house no shoes. In the garage they are a cheap slip on flat shoe. They were the flattest shoes I had as the others have some support (runners, boots, etc).

I am trying to, yes. If I do the form like I do when holding onto something without holding onto something I fall back.

The problem with scrunching my toes in is that I try to curl the up to keep my heels on the ground. I did try scrunching them up, but I couldn't get very deep.

abeach1

I put weight plates under my toes and it forces me to put my weight on my heels. I'm not sure if that is a healthy fix but my CrossFit coach suggested it and it seems to be working for me. I haven't been able to fully correct the issue without the assistance but I am more consistent now when I don't use them.

Care76

Sometimes that's from the knees being misaligned inwards. Try standing with your feet parallel and look down to see whether your kneecaps are turned inward or aligned with your foot.

They don't look like they are turned inwards (maybe very slightly), but they sure feel like it.

If your kneecaps are aligned, then your hips are probably turned out. That's good news, because that's usually fixable (unlike misaligned knees). This stretch should help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qZ517Rw7ME

Like with the calf stretch, the more frequently it's done, the better.

I can totally feel it in my hips. Maybe it will help me in other areas because right now my hips, knees, and ankles are all hurting. I did the calf stretch too just now and it is almost identical to the other stretch I was doing except I wasn't stretching the calf. I can do two for one now. Thanks!

Now, when I do the stretch I posted above (the one where my knee goes toward the wall and my heel stays on the ground), I really have to fight to keep my knees from not going in. Then they hurt after. Is that normal?

lisalsd1

I walk on my toes/ball of my foot. It's the structure of my foot. I had orthotics made by a podiatrist. They help in general. As for squatting, I do stand with feet a bit wide. It just took time and practice. I had to think "press with my heels." I would guess it took a couple of months to become automatic.

Care76

Arch your back and stick your butt out as you're going down.

Keep your feet pointed out and wider than you think you should without being uncomfortable.

For stretching, I like to sit *kitten* to grass with my hands forward holding the rack for about 30 seconds. Stand up and repeat a couple times.

I'm guessing the reason your Achilles tendon is short is because you like wearing heels?

I am trying to stick my butt out but I just arched my back more and it felt good.

For your stretching, it sounds like what I do with door handles or a pole.

I don't wear heels often. I have boots with heels, but I don't wear them much because they are not water proof and not good in ice which we get a lot of here. My nice high heels I haven't worn in years. They all just sit in the closet and probably wouldn't even fit now after pregnancy. I think it is from just walking on my toes which my mom says I have done since I was very young (like 2 or younger). I was put in ballet when I was two, not sure if years of that made it more habit. My niece walks on her toes too and she isn't in dance. I think it is just how some children walk.

pcastagner

just read starting strength. it has directions.

your problem is your center of gravity is coming forward of the middle of your feet. you probably need to stand wider and with your feet turned out a bit more. don't push with your legs, drive from your hips and push your knees away from each other.


body weight squats don't apply to back squats because your center of mass will change

Care76

I walk on my toes/ball of my foot. It's the structure of my foot. I had orthotics made by a podiatrist. They help in general. As for squatting, I do stand with feet a bit wide. It just took time and practice. I had to think "press with my heels." I would guess it took a couple of months to become automatic.

Thanks for posting! I am happy to hear it can be overcome. Hopefully practice will help me get to the point where I can squat with proper form.

tigersword

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that she says she CAN do it when she points her toes out? Isn't anybody going to tell her that her toes are SUPPOSED to be pointed out?

Care76

I put weight plates under my toes and it forces me to put my weight on my heels. I'm not sure if that is a healthy fix but my CrossFit coach suggested it and it seems to be working for me. I haven't been able to fully correct the issue without the assistance but I am more consistent now when I don't use them.

Hmmmm, I have heard to put plates with a ramp type thing under my heels, but not toes. I might try that, thanks!

pcastagner

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that she says she CAN do it when she points her toes out? Isn't anybody going to tell her that her toes are SUPPOSED to be pointed out?

beat you to it.

Care76

just read starting strength. it has directions.

your problem is your center of gravity is coming forward of the middle of your feet. you probably need to stand wider and with your feet turned out a bit more. don't push with your legs, drive from your hips and push your knees away from each other.


body weight squats don't apply to back squats because your center of mass will change

I read part of a pdf for squats. I haven't finished it yet though. But when I stand wider with my feet turned out I seem to fall forward more.

*I don't actually fall, I just come forward and I read/saw that the bar should go straight up and down, not move forward or backward*

So all this practice I am doing with body weight squats might not help me when I add a bar and weights?! And here I thought I was making progress.

Care76

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that she says she CAN do it when she points her toes out? Isn't anybody going to tell her that her toes are SUPPOSED to be pointed out?

You are? I know you can, but I thought it was just until you can do it properly.

My issue is that when I have a wider stance, feet pointed out I fall forward. If I keep my feet a little less wide (but wider than hips) and try (I say try because when I am done sometimes I see one or more of my feet turned out a bit) to keep my feet forward, I can't get low without my heels raising.

tigersword

You aren't supposed to keep your feet straight forward, that will wreck your knees. They are supposed to be turned out, and your knees track on the same path as your toes. If you're falling forward, it's because you aren't sitting back when you go down. Hips and butt go back, you hinge at the hips, and your torso will bend forward slightly to keep the bar over your mid foot. How much your torso moves depends on the type of squat you're doing (low bar/high bar.)

pcastagner

You aren't supposed to keep your feet straight forward, that will wreck your knees. They are supposed to be turned out, and your knees track on the same path as your toes. If you're falling forward, it's because you aren't sitting back when you go down. Hips and butt go back, you hinge at the hips, and your torso will bend forward slightly to keep the bar over your mid foot. How much your torso moves depends on the type of squat you're doing (low bar/high bar.)

boom.


see that there? YOU are allowed to move forward and back. THE BAR moves straight up and down. get your butt out of the way and further behind you. Think of the whole move as folding and unfolding your body by moving your butt forward and backwards, and organizing everything else around that.

it's all about the hip drive, baby!

Care76

No ****. I will get my husband to record me next time and maybe it's not as bad as I thought... Thanks.

ETA: I didn't mean no **** as being a smarta$$ in case it came out that way.

fleetzz

It sounds like you have a mild case of cerebral palsy (CP)---did you ever have physical therapy or splinting of your ankles/feet when you were a child?

Botox is approved for for this--relaxes the muscles that cause the feet to plantar flex. Physical therapy and splinting, especially at night, can help relax the calves.

Typically the pediatrician will pick up on the toe walking from observation during the visit, but depends on who you see. Of course, your niece also toe walks so it could be just a family trait and not CP at all.

Definitely need to take the time to stretch the calves so you can easily get your heel down. It may take a while.

Good luck!

I think it is from just walking on my toes which my mom says I have done since I was very young (like 2 or younger). I was put in ballet when I was two, not sure if years of that made it more habit. My niece walks on her toes too and she isn't in dance. I think it is just how some children walk.

RaggedyPond

If core isn't tight your back will want to go forward under the weight. It helps to hold your breath and keep tight all the way down and then as you pop back up blow out.

pcastagner

If core isn't tight your back will want to go forward under the weight. It helps to hold your breath and keep tight all the way down and then as you pop back up blow out.

no. hold your breath until just before the top or until you finish the rep.

exhaling while you pop back up is a great way to get injured. I've done it, so I should know.

RaggedyPond

Of course it will be at the end of the rep. OMGE

JoRocka

If core isn't tight your back will want to go forward under the weight. It helps to hold your breath and keep tight all the way down and then as you pop back up blow out.

no. hold your breath until just before the top or until you finish the rep.

exhaling while you pop back up is a great way to get injured. I've done it, so I should know.

I exhale about half the way up- after my sticking point.

also- scrunching toes? no... if anything PICK your toes up- will force you into your heels.

pcastagner

Of course it will be at the end of the rep. OMGE

Well it might be obvious to you, but I'm not as smart, so I made this mistake and didn't squat again for 6 months.

pcastagner

If core isn't tight your back will want to go forward under the weight. It helps to hold your breath and keep tight all the way down and then as you pop back up blow out.

no. hold your breath until just before the top or until you finish the rep.

exhaling while you pop back up is a great way to get injured. I've done it, so I should know.

I exhale about half the way up- after my sticking point.

also- scrunching toes? no... if anything PICK your toes up- will force you into your heels.

Picking up any part of your foot would reduce contact with the floor and rob your knee of some protection imparted by tension on your calf muscle. You should be balanced on your mid foot, not forward or back. That's a function of the bar path being straight up and down, assuming it starts out correctly.

WarriorReady

Great thread!

Care76

I will focus on my core more. I try to do that but with so many other things I have been focusing on it might have been neglected lately.

Curl toes up, or try to. That is what I have been doing. Got it. I will move to no toe curls after I have better range of movement in my heels. Right now I don't think I have a choice.

I don't think I have cerebral palsy, even mildly. I looked up symptoms in case there were some I didn't know of and it really doesn't sound like me at all. I might be very out of shape, but I was in dance, track and field, and soccer for many years. I might have issues with flexibility and balance now, but I didn't back then.

Toe waking can be related to Cerebral palsy, muscular dystrophy, and autism, but a lot of children and adults continue to toe walk out of habit with none of these. I did have a very bad fall when I was young. I fell out of a small roller coaster and the drop was about 10 feet, and my knees, elbow, and neck were injured. I didn't break anything though and back then if you didn't break a bone you were fine. So some of my knee issues I think are from that.

Care76

Of course it will be at the end of the rep. OMGE

Well it might be obvious to you, but I'm not as smart, so I made this mistake and didn't squat again for 6 months.

Thanks for making the clarification. I actually read it as exhale going up, so I would have done the same.

JoRocka

If core isn't tight your back will want to go forward under the weight. It helps to hold your breath and keep tight all the way down and then as you pop back up blow out.

no. hold your breath until just before the top or until you finish the rep.

exhaling while you pop back up is a great way to get injured. I've done it, so I should know.

I exhale about half the way up- after my sticking point.

also- scrunching toes? no... if anything PICK your toes up- will force you into your heels.

Picking up any part of your foot would reduce contact with the floor and rob your knee of some protection imparted by tension on your calf muscle. You should be balanced on your mid foot, not forward or back. That's a function of the bar path being straight up and down, assuming it starts out correctly.

You should be able to pick your toes up- not gripping the floor with them.

I use it as a litmus test- not as a way of physically performing all of my lifts.

I tend to think of the foot as a tripod- two points on the top outside- across the pad/ball of the foot- and then the heel.

You should be comfortable feeling those contact points and transferring weight between them to stay centered and balanced.

Picking up your toes on body weight squats- or light weight is a perfectly normal and functional way to keep the weight from coming to far forward.

roxylola

If you _can_ get your heels on the floor and they just come up without you realising how about putting something under your heel which you can feel (a small ball of paper maybe) and focusing on keeping your heel pressing down on that?

pcastagner

If core isn't tight your back will want to go forward under the weight. It helps to hold your breath and keep tight all the way down and then as you pop back up blow out.

no. hold your breath until just before the top or until you finish the rep.

exhaling while you pop back up is a great way to get injured. I've done it, so I should know.

I exhale about half the way up- after my sticking point.

also- scrunching toes? no... if anything PICK your toes up- will force you into your heels.

Picking up any part of your foot would reduce contact with the floor and rob your knee of some protection imparted by tension on your calf muscle. You should be balanced on your mid foot, not forward or back. That's a function of the bar path being straight up and down, assuming it starts out correctly.

You should be able to pick your toes up- not gripping the floor with them.

I use it as a litmus test- not as a way of physically performing all of my lifts.

I tend to think of the foot as a tripod- two points on the top outside- across the pad/ball of the foot- and then the heel.

You should be comfortable feeling those contact points and transferring weight between them to stay centered and balanced.

Picking up your toes on body weight squats- or light weight is a perfectly normal and functional way to keep the weight from coming to far forward.

What you are saying makes no sense, sorry.

In a body weight squat your weight SHOULD be farther forward than in a low bar back squat.

The weight goes over the middle of the foot. Not the heel, not the toe. The middle. That is true for any squat.

JoRocka

What you are saying makes no sense, sorry.

In a body weight squat your weight SHOULD be farther forward than in a low bar back squat.

The weight goes over the middle of the foot. Not the heel, not the toe. The middle. That is true for any squat.

sorry you aren't grasping the concept. I've never done a single squat where I was forward on my foot.

I can pick my toes up while I'm squatting- sorry that you can't or are having a hard time understanding this. I'm not sure how else to explain it

but you shouldn't be grabbing the ground with your toes to squat- maybe we have a different definition of scrunching of toes. shrug- whatever- I've been capable of doing this for years- and learned that you were always more back than forward if you had to pick. Yes I am balanced- but I would never ever ever curl my toes DOWN or try to grip the floor. Weight is back- everything is back.. balanced- but more back than forward- forward is bad.

pcastagner

Phone died before I could edit.

What trying to say here is that depending on weighted or not, and whether it is a high bar, low bar, front, or body weight squat will change how far forward or back you need to be to keep your center of mass over the middle of your foot at all times.

If you for some weird theory reason wanted to apply the mechanics of a proper low bar heavy squat to a body weight squat, while ignoring balance, you would be on your toes the whole time.

Just about everyone I've seen up on their toes, btw, is doing a high bar squat.