Debunking the Myth

QuietBloom

I have had very little input during this exchange from others who also maintain a very low BF% and good muscle development. I know you're out there. What do you eat? All I'm getting is people who are obviously satisfied with a little gel coating....not that there's anything wrong with that. But I was looking for some similar stories to compare with mine. Somehow I got into this dicussiion with female powerlifters. Not exactly comparing apples to apples here.

That there weren't any credible accounts rushing to your defense is consistent with the generally held position that you didn't actually do what you thought you did.

This is not a debate whether I did what I thought I did. That is invontravertable. The debate is over why I did what I thought I did. Keep up.

Incontrovertible? You haven't shown any evidence of having done what you thought you did. Zero evidence =/= incontrovertible.

Sarauk2sf

I have had very little input during this exchange from others who also maintain a very low BF% and good muscle development. I know you're out there. What do you eat? All I'm getting is people who are obviously satisfied with a little gel coating....not that there's anything wrong with that. But I was looking for some similar stories to compare with mine. Somehow I got into this dicussiion with female powerlifters. Not exactly comparing apples to apples here.

That's a bit of an assumption you have going there.

What female powerlifters? In this thread?

Sarauk2sf

I have had very little input during this exchange from others who also maintain a very low BF% and good muscle development. I know you're out there. What do you eat? All I'm getting is people who are obviously satisfied with a little gel coating....not that there's anything wrong with that. But I was looking for some similar stories to compare with mine. Somehow I got into this dicussiion with female powerlifters. Not exactly comparing apples to apples here.

That there weren't any credible accounts rushing to your defense is consistent with the generally held position that you didn't actually do what you thought you did.

This is not a debate whether I did what I thought I did. That is invontravertable. The debate is over why I did what I thought I did. Keep up.

Incontravertable required proof - you supplied none.

Mother_Superior

BeachIron

I have had very little input during this exchange from others who also maintain a very low BF% and good muscle development. I know you're out there. What do you eat? All I'm getting is people who are obviously satisfied with a little gel coating....not that there's anything wrong with that. But I was looking for some similar stories to compare with mine. Somehow I got into this dicussiion with female powerlifters. Not exactly comparing apples to apples here.

That there weren't any credible accounts rushing to your defense is consistent with the generally held position that you didn't actually do what you thought you did.

This is not a debate whether I did what I thought I did. That is invontravertable. The debate is over why I did what I thought I did. Keep up.

There is an extra helping of self delusion being served up here.

Sarauk2sf

OP: I suggest that you present your case study to Lyle so he can write an article on it (and change a bunch of other ones he has)!

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

BrainyBurro

This is not a debate whether I did what I thought I did. That is incontrovertible. The debate is over why I did what I thought I did. Keep up.

do you mean why you posted a thread about something that didn't happen?

attention whoring, maybe? just a guess on my part

MrGonzo05

Keep it up then.

eric_sg61

In for pics of 7-9% BF and videos of lifts

ndj1979

I'm so confused. What's TDEE?

Total Daily Energy Expenditure

Literally what your body burns each day doing everything.

Obviously if you eat less than that, you burn away fat reserves, or muscle if eating too little. Eat more, you add them, or muscle if doing lifting.

Since that usually varies, you usually estimate what the week looks like, and get a daily average.

Thanks. So the person who posted this thread ate over his TDEE and that's why he added muscle? So if I don't want to add muscle then I just don't do that?

You're worried about accidentally gaining muscle?

Well the person who posted this thread said he was eating at a deficit and he gained 6 or 7 pounds of muscle. I don't want to gain 6 or 7 pounds, even if it is muscle.

everything OP has said is highly debatable..so don't take it as gospel..

are you male or female?

ndj1979

I have had very little input during this exchange from others who also maintain a very low BF% and good muscle development. I know you're out there. What do you eat? All I'm getting is people who are obviously satisfied with a little gel coating....not that there's anything wrong with that. But I was looking for some similar stories to compare with mine. Somehow I got into this dicussiion with female powerlifters. Not exactly comparing apples to apples here.

That there weren't any credible accounts rushing to your defense is consistent with the generally held position that you didn't actually do what you thought you did.

This is not a debate whether I did what I thought I did. That is invontravertable. The debate is over why I did what I thought I did. Keep up.

actually, everything you have claimed has been debated and found to be highly suspect, if not blatantly false….

you also contradicted yourself about five times….

shmoony

I have had very little input during this exchange from others who also maintain a very low BF% and good muscle development. I know you're out there. What do you eat? All I'm getting is people who are obviously satisfied with a little gel coating....not that there's anything wrong with that. But I was looking for some similar stories to compare with mine. Somehow I got into this dicussiion with female powerlifters. Not exactly comparing apples to apples here.

That there weren't any credible accounts rushing to your defense is consistent with the generally held position that you didn't actually do what you thought you did.

This is not a debate whether I did what I thought I did. That is invontravertable. The debate is over why I did what I thought I did. Keep up.

actually, everything you have claimed has been debated and found to be highly suspect, if not blatantly false….

you also contradicted yourself about five times….

My weight is not debatable

My relative strength is not debatable

My relative BF% is not debatable

My caloric intake is not debatable

These things are only debatable if ones opinion is that I am blatently lying. If that's the case, there's no point in having a discussion when you don't believe what one side is saying. And to that point, what would I possibly gain from making up stories about my lifestyle, body comp, eating habits, and gym progress. That would be a little sad and uncharacteristic. I am pretty serious about my health and fitness, and don't take this stuff lightly. I am not a troll, or "delusional" as someone stated. I am just a guy who stays in pretty good shape and noticed some pretty remarkable changes in my body while eating at a perceived deficit.

The only things then that become a topic for debate are: what is my actual TDEE, and what are the processes going on in my body to account for the changes?

And also, please quote a single contradiction. I think I have stayed pretty steadfast to my initial stance.

BeachIron

I have had very little input during this exchange from others who also maintain a very low BF% and good muscle development. I know you're out there. What do you eat? All I'm getting is people who are obviously satisfied with a little gel coating....not that there's anything wrong with that. But I was looking for some similar stories to compare with mine. Somehow I got into this dicussiion with female powerlifters. Not exactly comparing apples to apples here.

That there weren't any credible accounts rushing to your defense is consistent with the generally held position that you didn't actually do what you thought you did.

This is not a debate whether I did what I thought I did. That is invontravertable. The debate is over why I did what I thought I did. Keep up.

actually, everything you have claimed has been debated and found to be highly suspect, if not blatantly false….

you also contradicted yourself about five times….

My weight is not debatable

My relative strength is not debatable

My relative BF% is not debatable

My caloric intake is not debatable

These things are only debatable if ones opinion is that I am blatently lying. If that's the case, there's no point in having a discussion when you don't believe what one side is saying. And to that point, what would I possibly gain from making up stories about my lifestyle, body comp, eating habits, and gym progress. That would be a little sad and uncharacteristic. I am pretty serious about my health and fitness, and don't take this stuff lightly. I am not a troll, or "delusional" as someone stated. I am just a guy who stays in pretty good shape and noticed some pretty remarkable changes in my body while eating at a perceived deficit.

The only things then that become a topic for debate are: what is my actual TDEE, and what are the processes going on in my body to account for the changes?

And also, please quote a single contradiction. I think I have stayed pretty steadfast to my initial stance.

Claims that his body has defied the laws of physics and still provides no data . . .

The internet entertainment doesn't stop. There's no debate. Just clowning by a troll.

Fullsterkur_woman

I have had very little input during this exchange from others who also maintain a very low BF% and good muscle development. I know you're out there. What do you eat? All I'm getting is people who are obviously satisfied with a little gel coating....not that there's anything wrong with that. But I was looking for some similar stories to compare with mine. Somehow I got into this dicussiion with female powerlifters. Not exactly comparing apples to apples here.

That's a bit of an assumption you have going there.

What female powerlifters? In this thread?

I think he meant me and neandermagnon. I deadlift, but I don't bench or squat, so, yeah. Not a powerlifter.

And yeah, he's not going to see any similar stories, unless by similar he means some dudes that have a low body fat that eat at a slight surplus and gain a little bit of muscle and a little bit of fat, because that's what it seems like happened. Where's my earth-shattering kaboom again? :huh:

shmoony

What "data" are you looking for besides my own measurements and observations? Please be more specific. Since when does someone have to have a scienctific study behind their words to make them true? I look down, see a number on the scale. I look up, see my reflection in the mirror, I drive to the gym, move X amount of weight around, I drive home, I eat X amount of food. There's your data. What else do you need?

pcastagner

What "data" are you looking for besides my own measurements and observations? Please be more specific. Since when does someone have to have a scienctific study behind their words to make them true? I look down, see a number on the scale. I look up, see my reflection in the mirror, I drive to the gym, move X amount of weight around, I drive home, I eat X amount of food. There's your data. What else do you need?

Skin fold measurements.

Commander_Keen

I am finally ready after 2 years of experimention to firmly say that the prevailing concept that a caloric surplus is necessary to build muscle is untrue. I know this is going to get a lot of backlash since it has been the belief for so long amongst the general public, but I am now living proof that muscle and strength gains can be acheived through an intense lifting regiment and a closely monitered intake even with a slight caloric deficit. Without getting into too much detail about mself, I can just tell you that I net under my TDEE every week, and every week I get bigger, stronger, and more defined. The key is simply lifting heavy weights to the point of misery, and eating a crap load of protein. Of course if you want to get bigger faster, eat more, but I am much happier making slow gains while maintaining a six pack than benching 285 lbs. with a beer gut.

Somebody PM me, would ya.. but I think there is truth to this.. The OP is stating to eat at a deficit and to be able to do Strong lifts ( add weight weekly, do more reps). What does the body need to build muscle/strength? Protein right?

BeachIron

What "data" are you looking for besides my own measurements and observations? Please be more specific. Since when does someone have to have a scienctific study behind their words to make them true? I look down, see a number on the scale. I look up, see my reflection in the mirror, I drive to the gym, move X amount of weight around, I drive home, I eat X amount of food. There's your data. What else do you need?

Skin fold measurements.

Along with accurate calorie intake and burn and all actually supervised. The cheats on these are numerous. It's been done to death.

derekj222

you've lost weight...so of course you have been in a deficit, so have I for the past 1.5 years and added muscle...but that muscle has been there, just not shining through and people can easily do that while losing weight. I have. So myth NOT debunked.

ndj1979

I am finally ready after 2 years of experimention to firmly say that the prevailing concept that a caloric surplus is necessary to build muscle is untrue. I know this is going to get a lot of backlash since it has been the belief for so long amongst the general public, but I am now living proof that muscle and strength gains can be acheived through an intense lifting regiment and a closely monitered intake even with a slight caloric deficit. Without getting into too much detail about mself, I can just tell you that I net under my TDEE every week, and every week I get bigger, stronger, and more defined. The key is simply lifting heavy weights to the point of misery, and eating a crap load of protein. Of course if you want to get bigger faster, eat more, but I am much happier making slow gains while maintaining a six pack than benching 285 lbs. with a beer gut.

Somebody PM me, would ya.. but I think there is truth to this.. The OP is stating to eat at a deficit and to be able to do Strong lifts ( add weight weekly, do more reps). What does the body need to build muscle/strength? Protein right?

strength gain and muscle gain are not the same thing…

you can "train" your muscles to get stronger and lift more weight while in a deficit but you will not gain any muscle..

to gain muscle, you need energy, i.e surplus calories above maintenance…

protein will prevent muscle loss, while in a deficit; again, to build muscle you need surplus calories...