Puppy play-how far is too far?
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So I already posted a separate topic on my puppy pulling or not paying attention when we run...
I notice when my two boxers play it can sometimes get rough. They nip and bark and throw each other around, which is normal behavior...but they also like to chew/nibble on each other and sometimes on us. They never bite...but the little one in particular will "gum" on us...she nibbles but doesn't bite down hard.
Well more recently, our older boxer has begun to actually snap down on our puppy's jowls when they play and then he whips his head around like she's a toy and he's tugging her face. She never cries out and he never draws blood. I stepped in to correct it though because this isn't normal play behavior and seems more aggressive than their usual play.
Anybody else have similar experiences? We have hired a trainer to work with our older dog on his social skills and our little one with general training and focus.
I notice when my two boxers play it can sometimes get rough. They nip and bark and throw each other around, which is normal behavior...but they also like to chew/nibble on each other and sometimes on us. They never bite...but the little one in particular will "gum" on us...she nibbles but doesn't bite down hard.
Well more recently, our older boxer has begun to actually snap down on our puppy's jowls when they play and then he whips his head around like she's a toy and he's tugging her face. She never cries out and he never draws blood. I stepped in to correct it though because this isn't normal play behavior and seems more aggressive than their usual play.
Anybody else have similar experiences? We have hired a trainer to work with our older dog on his social skills and our little one with general training and focus.
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Replies
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Bah. I thought there would be some form of petting in this thread0
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Boxers play rough. It's hard to know if the behavior is aggression/dominance or something else. Your dog trainer will be able to tell the difference.
No matter what the source of the behavior is, you need to have complete unquestioned control over the stopping of any behavior at any time.0 -
Boxers play rough. It's hard to know if the behavior is aggression/dominance or something else. Your dog trainer will be able to tell the difference.
No matter what the source of the behavior is, you need to have complete unquestioned control over the stopping of any behavior at any time.
Well that's what scares me. The little one, you look at her sternly and she'll piddle and roll over on her back. The older dog is a little more stubborn. He's a shelter dog too and has some insecurities.0 -
Boxers play rough. It's hard to know if the behavior is aggression/dominance or something else. Your dog trainer will be able to tell the difference.
No matter what the source of the behavior is, you need to have complete unquestioned control over the stopping of any behavior at any time.
Well that's what scares me. The little one, you look at her sternly and she'll piddle and roll over on her back. The older dog is a little more stubborn. He's a shelter dog too and has some insecurities.
The "shelter dog" part? Don't give that any credence. Dogs (all animals) live in the now. They react with instinct, not past emotions.
You have a possibly dominant dog and a submissive dog. Usually they will work this out amongst themselves, but under no circumstances do you want to allow dominance. I would guess that the smaller younger dog will submit and cower if/when the more dominant dog insists. That's normal dog behavior. Someone has to be the boss - and that someone needs to be you. Your trainer will sort this out with you. You are the ultimate Boss, and you really don't want dominant behavior displays.
The younger smaller dog needs to know you have the more dominant dog under your control and that you won't let any harm come to the smaller/more submissive one. You have to be the Protector. You are in charge.0 -
Bah. I thought there would be some form of petting in this thread
i was thinking "sweater puppies"0 -
The "shelter dog" part? Don't give that any credence. Dogs (all animals) live in the now. They react with instinct, not past emotions.
I'm not entirely sure about this. My dog sitter got a puppy several weeks ago and she was a shelter dog and she has issues with strangers. She barks and acts tough at them. She also freaks out when she's near a busy street (the vet that she was taken to is on a busy road) because she was abandoned on someone's front porch on a busy street. My dog was abandoned at the end of our road. One afternoon on one of our walks I decided to do training exercises with him not realizing that where I was attempting to do it was near where he was abandoned. I was trying to do "sit/stay" and he would not allow me to walk away from him. Not only that but he put his head between my legs which is something that he does when he's been bad or he's scared.
OP: I do agree that you need to nip the dominance in the bud with the dog. Does he try to dominate you in any way as well? If so then you need to stop that immediately. It took me a few times to stop that behavior when my dog was with me and now (for the most part) he listens to me, especially when I have the "authority" voice.0 -
Bah. I thought there would be some form of petting in this thread
i was thinking "sweater puppies"
And I was thinking of an entirely different sort of puppy play:blushing:0 -
Bah. I thought there would be some form of petting in this thread
i was thinking "sweater puppies"
And I was thinking of an entirely different sort of puppy play:blushing:
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The "shelter dog" part? Don't give that any credence. Dogs (all animals) live in the now. They react with instinct, not past emotions.
I'm not entirely sure about this. My dog sitter got a puppy several weeks ago and she was a shelter dog and she has issues with strangers. She barks and acts tough at them. She also freaks out when she's near a busy street (the vet that she was taken to is on a busy road) because she was abandoned on someone's front porch on a busy street. My dog was abandoned at the end of our road. One afternoon on one of our walks I decided to do training exercises with him not realizing that where I was attempting to do it was near where he was abandoned. I was trying to do "sit/stay" and he would not allow me to walk away from him. Not only that but he put his head between my legs which is something that he does when he's been bad or he's scared.
yeah, we got a puppy that was given up, and she was super anxious about being crated and could not take long car rides without soiling the back of the SUV. We think that she was crated for too many consecutive hours by her original owners.
but over time, she has gotten 100 times better as she not only minds being crated, but will just go lay in her crate sometimes, and she no longer has issues in the car.0 -
In for misleading title...
Leaves disappointed0 -
Well more recently, our older boxer has begun to actually snap down on our puppy's jowls when they play and then he whips his head around like she's a toy and he's tugging her face. She never cries out and he never draws blood. I stepped in to correct it though because this isn't normal play behavior and seems more aggressive than their usual play.
She's into it. If it hurts, she'll yelp, if he continues after that you stop it with extreme prejudice. That's how the older one will learn. Dogs play rough, a lot rougher than we do, and they can take a metric asston more than we can.
It's fine.0 -
I'm not entirely sure about this. My dog sitter got a puppy several weeks ago and she was a shelter dog and she has issues with strangers. She barks and acts tough at them. She also freaks out when she's near a busy street (the vet that she was taken to is on a busy road) because she was abandoned on someone's front porch on a busy street. My dog was abandoned at the end of our road. One afternoon on one of our walks I decided to do training exercises with him not realizing that where I was attempting to do it was near where he was abandoned. I was trying to do "sit/stay" and he would not allow me to walk away from him. Not only that but he put his head between my legs which is something that he does when he's been bad or he's scared.
How sure are you that you aren't giving "bad place" cues to him in that particular place? Dogs pick up all of our cues, even the ones we don't think we're giving. (Which is why drug sniffing dogs are known as probable cause dogs.)
Have someone who doesn't know the "history" of the spot with the dog try it with you absent. I would not be surprised if there was a considerably different outcome.0 -
Please go to a behaviourist/ trainer who is qualified in recent thinking and research- not the Cesar Milan type of outdated dominance rubbish.0
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I'm not entirely sure about this. My dog sitter got a puppy several weeks ago and she was a shelter dog and she has issues with strangers. She barks and acts tough at them. She also freaks out when she's near a busy street (the vet that she was taken to is on a busy road) because she was abandoned on someone's front porch on a busy street. My dog was abandoned at the end of our road. One afternoon on one of our walks I decided to do training exercises with him not realizing that where I was attempting to do it was near where he was abandoned. I was trying to do "sit/stay" and he would not allow me to walk away from him. Not only that but he put his head between my legs which is something that he does when he's been bad or he's scared.
How sure are you that you aren't giving "bad place" cues to him in that particular place? Dogs pick up all of our cues, even the ones we don't think we're giving. (Which is why drug sniffing dogs are known as probable cause dogs.)
Have someone who doesn't know the "history" of the spot with the dog try it with you absent. I would not be surprised if there was a considerably different outcome.
Not sure how I'd be giving 'bad place' cues to him. He's completely fine with doing the training in the yard or when we're close to the house. I didn't realize that I was near that place until he started acting that way. I typically will do training with him when I take him on his short walks up the street and back but it's usually done when I'm closer to the house.0 -
Oh I know for a fact that our boy Booker has some insecurities...he was never socialized...his previous owner (the one who had him just before us) never had him around other dogs...now he has no idea how to behave. As I said we did hire a trainer to help us out...usually he and the smaller dog get along really well but once in a while I think he takes it too far. And I have been stepping in to correct him. I just wanted to know if anyone else has had similar experiences and how they dealt with it.0
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The "shelter dog" part? Don't give that any credence. Dogs (all animals) live in the now. They react with instinct, not past emotions.
I'm not entirely sure about this. My dog sitter got a puppy several weeks ago and she was a shelter dog and she has issues with strangers. She barks and acts tough at them. She also freaks out when she's near a busy street (the vet that she was taken to is on a busy road) because she was abandoned on someone's front porch on a busy street. My dog was abandoned at the end of our road. One afternoon on one of our walks I decided to do training exercises with him not realizing that where I was attempting to do it was near where he was abandoned. I was trying to do "sit/stay" and he would not allow me to walk away from him. Not only that but he put his head between my legs which is something that he does when he's been bad or he's scared.
OP: I do agree that you need to nip the dominance in the bud with the dog. Does he try to dominate you in any way as well? If so then you need to stop that immediately. It took me a few times to stop that behavior when my dog was with me and now (for the most part) he listens to me, especially when I have the "authority" voice.
Oh no nonono....Booker is so affectionate toward us it's laughable. He adores people...his only problem with people is jumping up to "hug" them...he has never shown dominance toward people and is very affectionate especially with children. It's just other dogs.0 -
Please go to a behaviourist/ trainer who is qualified in recent thinking and research- not the Cesar Milan type of outdated dominance rubbish.
The person working with us actually trains dogs to be therapy dogs. He has one of his own and has trained others...he's very good at what he does.0 -
Sorry- wasnt a reflection on who you've chosen. I just wanted to advise against old style training which is so popularPlease go to a behaviourist/ trainer who is qualified in recent thinking and research- not the Cesar Milan type of outdated dominance rubbish.
The person working with us actually trains dogs to be therapy dogs. He has one of his own and has trained others...he's very good at what he does.0 -
i think correcting it at any time is good to do, keeps the dogs in check and then they know who is boss0
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Sorry- wasnt a reflection on who you've chosen. I just wanted to advise against old style training which is so popularPlease go to a behaviourist/ trainer who is qualified in recent thinking and research- not the Cesar Milan type of outdated dominance rubbish.
The person working with us actually trains dogs to be therapy dogs. He has one of his own and has trained others...he's very good at what he does.
What is the more recent thinking? Do you have some links or resources?0 -
Oh no nonono....Booker is so affectionate toward us it's laughable. He adores people...his only problem with people is jumping up to "hug" them...he has never shown dominance toward people and is very affectionate especially with children. It's just other dogs.
Ahhh. Gotcha.
Training would be the best thing for him and possibly more socialization. Our dog was left at the end of our road so we didn't really know anything about him. We found out REAL quick that he wasn't socialized and wanted to be dominant over other dogs. Unfortunately where we live isn't a great place to socialize him (not a lot of people or dogs around. Others have the same issue here too) however every chance we get we try to get him with other dogs. Our dog sitter stays at the house with her dogs and we brought him with us at Christmas to socialize with my in-laws dogs and he's been a LOT better. Our dog sitters dog has put my dog in his place several times which is good.0 -
I mean reward based training rather than dominance/ pack leader theory. Check your trainer works like this.
Sorry- wasnt a reflection on who you've chosen. I just wanted to advise against old style training which is so popularPlease go to a behaviourist/ trainer who is qualified in recent thinking and research- not the Cesar Milan type of outdated dominance rubbish.
The person working with us actually trains dogs to be therapy dogs. He has one of his own and has trained others...he's very good at what he does.
What is the more recent thinking? Do you have some links or resources?0 -
I mean reward based training rather than dominance/ pack leader theory. Check your trainer works like this.
Sorry- wasnt a reflection on who you've chosen. I just wanted to advise against old style training which is so popularPlease go to a behaviourist/ trainer who is qualified in recent thinking and research- not the Cesar Milan type of outdated dominance rubbish.
The person working with us actually trains dogs to be therapy dogs. He has one of his own and has trained others...he's very good at what he does.
What is the more recent thinking? Do you have some links or resources?
Oh. So, unlike real relationships, you reward good behavior and ignore the bad?0 -
Boxers play rough. It's hard to know if the behavior is aggression/dominance or something else. Your dog trainer will be able to tell the difference.
No matter what the source of the behavior is, you need to have complete unquestioned control over the stopping of any behavior at any time.
Well that's what scares me. The little one, you look at her sternly and she'll piddle and roll over on her back. The older dog is a little more stubborn. He's a shelter dog too and has some insecurities.
The "shelter dog" part? Don't give that any credence. Dogs (all animals) live in the now. They react with instinct, not past emotions.
Ever seen how an animal abused the majority of it's life behaves around people? ...0 -
Boxers play rough. It's hard to know if the behavior is aggression/dominance or something else. Your dog trainer will be able to tell the difference.
No matter what the source of the behavior is, you need to have complete unquestioned control over the stopping of any behavior at any time.
Well that's what scares me. The little one, you look at her sternly and she'll piddle and roll over on her back. The older dog is a little more stubborn. He's a shelter dog too and has some insecurities.
The "shelter dog" part? Don't give that any credence. Dogs (all animals) live in the now. They react with instinct, not past emotions.
Ever seen how an animal abused the majority of it's life behaves around people? ...
How do you know it has been abused the majority of its life?
Are you sure you aren't making up a story to suit your inability to connect and guide the dog?0 -
All recent scientific research on dog psychology shows this is the best way of training dogs.
I mean reward based training rather than dominance/ pack leader theory. Check your trainer works like this.
Sorry- wasnt a reflection on who you've chosen. I just wanted to advise against old style training which is so popularPlease go to a behaviourist/ trainer who is qualified in recent thinking and research- not the Cesar Milan type of outdated dominance rubbish.
The person working with us actually trains dogs to be therapy dogs. He has one of his own and has trained others...he's very good at what he does.
What is the more recent thinking? Do you have some links or resources?
Oh. So, unlike real relationships, you reward good behavior and ignore the bad?0 -
All recent scientific research on dog psychology shows this is the best way of training dogs.
I mean reward based training rather than dominance/ pack leader theory. Check your trainer works like this.
Sorry- wasnt a reflection on who you've chosen. I just wanted to advise against old style training which is so popularPlease go to a behaviourist/ trainer who is qualified in recent thinking and research- not the Cesar Milan type of outdated dominance rubbish.
The person working with us actually trains dogs to be therapy dogs. He has one of his own and has trained others...he's very good at what he does.
What is the more recent thinking? Do you have some links or resources?
Oh. So, unlike real relationships, you reward good behavior and ignore the bad?
Once again I'm going to ask you for referrals and/or links to back up what you're saying. I've not met any dog behaviorists who would go against the natural behavior of pack animals. So, please, give me something that says otherwise.
Other than "because I said so."
Pack animals have a natural hierarchy to follow; and while physical affection and access to food is allowed in the pack, dominance and control are the overriding system.
Humans supplying "treats" for every good behavior ignores the need for discipline when there s bad behavior.
Not everything in life is about rewards.
It's like the little kids' baseball team that awards every player with a trophy just for being on the team. Yeah. No.
Someone is in charge in life. Whether it is your parent, your spouse, your boss, your coach, YOU. Someone is in charge. In a dog/human relationship, it should always be the human.
or the dog can get a job and buy its own house and food.0 -
All recent scientific research on dog psychology shows this is the best way of training dogs.
I mean reward based training rather than dominance/ pack leader theory. Check your trainer works like this.
Sorry- wasnt a reflection on who you've chosen. I just wanted to advise against old style training which is so popularPlease go to a behaviourist/ trainer who is qualified in recent thinking and research- not the Cesar Milan type of outdated dominance rubbish.
The person working with us actually trains dogs to be therapy dogs. He has one of his own and has trained others...he's very good at what he does.
What is the more recent thinking? Do you have some links or resources?
Oh. So, unlike real relationships, you reward good behavior and ignore the bad?
Once again I'm going to ask you for referrals and/or links to back up what you're saying. I've not met any dog behaviorists who would go against the natural behavior of pack animals. So, please, give me something that says otherwise.
Other than "because I said so."
Pack animals have a natural hierarchy to follow; and while physical affection and access to food is allowed in the pack, dominance and control are the overriding system.
Humans supplying "treats" for every good behavior ignores the need for discipline when there s bad behavior.
Not everything in life is about rewards.
It's like the little kids' baseball team that awards every player with a trophy just for being on the team. Yeah. No.
Someone is in charge in life. Whether it is your parent, your spouse, your boss, your coach, YOU. Someone is in charge. In a dog/human relationship, it should always be the human.
or the dog can get a job and buy its own house and food.
Except people seem to forget we aren't dogs and we don't speak "dog". Dogs do what works, if a good behavior is rewarded, then they are very, very likely to repeat that good behavior. Of course, if a bad behavior brings on a beating, it's pretty darn likely that that behavior will diminish very quickly.
Personally, I prefer my dogs to be excited to see me and enjoy being around me rather than fearing me, but that's just my personal preference. I do use treats occasionally, but tend to lean towards praise and affection for appropriate behavior, both with my personal dogs and the dogs we train for other owners.0 -
Boxers play rough. It's hard to know if the behavior is aggression/dominance or something else. Your dog trainer will be able to tell the difference.
No matter what the source of the behavior is, you need to have complete unquestioned control over the stopping of any behavior at any time.
Well that's what scares me. The little one, you look at her sternly and she'll piddle and roll over on her back. The older dog is a little more stubborn. He's a shelter dog too and has some insecurities.
The "shelter dog" part? Don't give that any credence. Dogs (all animals) live in the now. They react with instinct, not past emotions.
Ever seen how an animal abused the majority of it's life behaves around people? ...
How do you know it has been abused the majority of its life?
Are you sure you aren't making up a story to suit your inability to connect and guide the dog?
:noway:0 -
I think if the dogs aren't drawing blood, and they both seem to be having fun they're okay then. My doggy likes to wrestle, but he's never drew blood on another dog.0
This discussion has been closed.
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