Here's the scoop...(lifting heavy/fatloss/strength gains)

loriq41

I have been lifting (heavy for me) for approximately 3 months. I am 5 ft tall, weigh like 125 (was 122 but the holidays did me in) and where as I definately see some physical progress I still have made only tiny gains as far as lifting goes. My goal really is to shed the fat (and I would LIKE to be 115 but I know, I know..the muscle/fat thing). I am eating 1400 cals per day, lifting 3 days a week (full body) for 40 minutes and doing cardio the other two for approximately 45 minutes each time. My question, dear folks..and I probably already know the answer...I am not making as great a strength strides because I am eating at a deficit right? I mean, that is not my MAIN goal as fatloss really is the key for me. So 1) eating at a deficit is impeding my strength gains? and 2) a question for all of you...those that are in the same boat as me....does it bother you that your strength gains are so minimal or are you just happy to be shedding the fat? I hope this all makes sense. Thanks for any responses back. I am awaiting my New Rules for Women in the mail to shake it up a bit!

kevinmstevens

Yes your right that a lot of it is tied to your diet, but there are other factors.1) your body has to have the right typpes of foods, protein especially to fuel it for the specific event. 2) In order to get stronger, really stronger your typically going to gain weight as a by product of the thickening of the muscles to overcome this new stressor you've placed on it, heavier wights. 3) you also have to remember that there are differnces in the results of lifting, theirs strength, power, and endurance types of lifting. Strength and endurance are very similar. But power, the ability to lift a heavy object a few or only one time is totally different than lifting a weight for 20 to 30 reps. Differnet musclle fivers and much more are involved. 4) you have to be able to break the body parts down to get a more effective workout. We will use the chest as an example. You can not lift wights for the chest without involving the shoulders and triceps. So if your working those parts as well on the same day, assuming you do chest first, those parts will suffer fatigue from the previous chest work. Thats why most pros will cycle through their training and one day will be devoted to just chest, no arms or other body parts, same with arms, no other work that day but the arms. 5) It is very difficult to gain strength in any noticable amount while conducting cardio, or atleast lots of cardio. Again nutrition and body issues also come into play. 6) Weight lifting does help in fat burning but not nearly as much as the cardio does, but thats when you get into the different nutritional issues again with carbs and proteins and such.7) Finally their is the amount of rest needed to fully recover from the workout, it should be so taxing that you need a couple or even several days to recover before you can fully work that body part again. Unfortunately the best way usually is to cycle through your priorities, For example, the next 8 weeks are going to be devoted to heavy cardio with light strength training for maintenance, the next 8 weeks will be devoted to heavy weight lifting for building mass and power with much less cardio.....and so forth.
Please understand that this is not an all encompassing post and there are other issues at play but these are the most basic and general concepts. Further searching and investigating should certainly be done. I hope this helps.

kagevf

I dont lose strength on a deficit. Just broke my PR.
try stronglifts 5x5 workout program

loriq41

Thanks all...I pretty much (other than being a bit off my diet game the past 10 days) am able to do around 100 grams of protein per day..so I have got that covered...I guess I want to lean out...strength is secondary for me.

loriq41

I dont lose strength on a deficit. Just broke my PR.
try stronglifts 5x5 workout program

Thanks!

WalkingAlong

I don't think strength gains need a calorie surplus. If you're trying to bulk up, then yes. But that's not likely to happen to you without testosterone injections.

Are you looking to get stronger or look different? I don't look a lot different after lifting a few months.

WithWhatsLeft

I'm right there with you. I'm 5'4, 149lbs, and have been lifting 2 to 3x a week for the last year. I definitely lost a couple sizes, but damn I love good food and wine.

My goal for this year is to get religious about going to the gym, and fine-tune the calorie deficit in order to get rid of the fat. Feel free to friend me.

loriq41

I don't think strength gains need a calorie surplus. If you're trying to bulk up, then yes. But that's not likely to happen to you without testosterone injections.

Are you looking to get stronger or look different? I don't look a lot different after lifting a few months.

I would not mind being a bit stronger but I am not one of those chicks that feels the need to lift twice my body weight (not that there is anything wrong with that)..I just want to get rid of the fat, look toned, lose a few more pounds..was wondering if the fact that since I am not making great strength gains that that is an impediment to my primary goals?

loriq41

I'm right there with you. I'm 5'4, 149lbs, and have been lifting 2 to 3x a week for the last year. I definitely lost a couple sizes, but damn I love good food and wine.

My goal for this year is to get religious about going to the gym, and fine-tune the calorie deficit in order to get rid of the fat. Feel free to friend me.

Added ya...lets lose that fat together!

BusyRaeNOTBusty

I dont lose strength on a deficit. Just broke my PR.
try stronglifts 5x5 workout program

I agree. A lot of programs produce very minimal strength gains especially when on a diet. First, they don't tell you when to, or push you to increase your weight so you end up doing the same weight for 2-3 weeks. Stronglifts tells you to push it as much as possible. Second the rep range on most programs is higher. I just can't seem to increase weight when I'm doing 8-10 reps, but when I'm doing 5 it's much easier.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/560459-stronglifts-5x5-summary

loriq41

I dont lose strength on a deficit. Just broke my PR.
try stronglifts 5x5 workout program

I agree. A lot of programs produce very minimal strength gains especially when on a diet. First, they don't tell you when to, or push you to increase your weight so you end up doing the same weight for 2-3 weeks. Stronglifts tells you to push it as much as possible. Second the rep range on most programs is higher. I just can't seem to increase weight when I'm doing 8-10 reps, but when I'm doing 5 it's much easier.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/560459-stronglifts-5x5-summary

Great thanks!

JennyOne2277

I'd like to start lifting (nothing crazy) to build my muscles and lose fat, too. Add me also please

emjaycazz

I am your height, 100 lbs, and lift heavy (5x5 SL). I actually am eating at maintenance, but given the difficulty in calculating calories burned through lifting as well as MFP’s overstatement of calorie burns for cardio activity I don’t go over my weekly net calories (with my “deficit” averaging around 600 weekly).

My strength gains are pretty modest and gradual. I use fractionals to add weight (and sometimes I will add them only for the first 2 of 5 sets). Right now, I am okay with my teeny gains because I AM making progress, but once I get back on a regular routine after the holidays, I will add additional calories for 2-3 weeks and see what happens.

loriq41

I'm right there with you. I'm 5'4, 149lbs, and have been lifting 2 to 3x a week for the last year. I definitely lost a couple sizes, but damn I love good food and wine.

My goal for this year is to get religious about going to the gym, and fine-tune the calorie deficit in order to get rid of the fat. Feel free to friend me.

Amen sister!

loriq41

I dont lose strength on a deficit. Just broke my PR.
try stronglifts 5x5 workout program

I agree. A lot of programs produce very minimal strength gains especially when on a diet. First, they don't tell you when to, or push you to increase your weight so you end up doing the same weight for 2-3 weeks. Stronglifts tells you to push it as much as possible. Second the rep range on most programs is higher. I just can't seem to increase weight when I'm doing 8-10 reps, but when I'm doing 5 it's much easier.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/560459-stronglifts-5x5-summary

Thanks..I will DEF check this out!

loriq41

I am your height, 100 lbs, and lift heavy (5x5 SL). I actually am eating at maintenance, but given the difficulty in calculating calories burned through lifting as well as MFP’s overstatement of calorie burns for cardio activity I don’t go over my weekly net calories (with my “deficit” averaging around 600 weekly).

My strength gains are pretty modest and gradual. I use fractionals to add weight (and sometimes I will add them only for the first 2 of 5 sets). Right now, I am okay with my teeny gains because I AM making progress, but once I get back on a regular routine after the holidays, I will add additional calories for 2-3 weeks and see what happens.

I agree with your approach as at your height (mine as well) you do not need to lose any fat probably..just gain the muscle and it is good for you to eat at maintenance..I may get to that place, but I still have about 10 lbs to go before I would feel good about eating at maintenance..I am ok with tiny gains..I just want to start looking really toned!

SezxyStef

Lifting does not make you "toned". Lifting while at a defiect and eating enough protien helps maintain your LBM.

To show the muscles you need to lose weight. To do that you eat at a deficet.

Strength gains come from increasing your weights. SL for woman say 5lbs each workout but sometimes you can't do that. So fractional weights are good.

I have made good gains over the 15 weeks I have been lifting.

Prior to injury I was squatting 140 and DL 185. Benching 105, OHP 80lbs and rows 140.

SezxyStef

I'd like to start lifting (nothing crazy) to build my muscles and lose fat, too. Add me also please

You can't gain muscle at a deficet.

loriq41

Lifting does not make you "toned". Lifting while at a defiect and eating enough protien helps maintain your LBM.

To show the muscles you need to lose weight. To do that you eat at a deficet.

Strength gains come from increasing your weights. SL for woman say 5lbs each workout but sometimes you can't do that. So fractional weights are good.

I have made good gains over the 15 weeks I have been lifting.

Prior to injury I was squatting 140 and DL 185. Benching 105, OHP 80lbs and rows 140.

Thanks

greenmonstergirl

I dont lose strength on a deficit. Just broke my PR.
try stronglifts 5x5 workout program

^ This!

I too am at a deficit and up the amount I lift by 10 pounds each week (lift 3x/week full body). Eat protein and lots of it!

WalkingAlong

I don't think strength gains need a calorie surplus. If you're trying to bulk up, then yes. But that's not likely to happen to you without testosterone injections.

Are you looking to get stronger or look different? I don't look a lot different after lifting a few months.

I would not mind being a bit stronger but I am not one of those chicks that feels the need to lift twice my body weight (not that there is anything wrong with that)..I just want to get rid of the fat, look toned, lose a few more pounds..was wondering if the fact that since I am not making great strength gains that that is an impediment to my primary goals?

I don't think your strength level is impeding your fat loss goals.

geebusuk

I'm in similar position to you, though I've got more to loose (maybe 20 to 30) and of course am bigger and male.
I've been using the 'leangains' approach where I eat more on lifting days and less on 'rest' days - about 1000 calories less on off days. I've just been adding some more cardio in on rest days.
So far for this time (I put a lot of weight on working away over summer), it's working very well.
I've been having to up my the food I've been eating (did have it on 1400/2400) as I felt I was losing too fast.
I've stalled on squat, but everything else is still going up session on session (sometimes doing more reps rather than another 2.,5kg, but still progress - my squat figures put me getting quite close to 'advanced' on one of those calculators and on it if I was at my goal weight (so similar lean mass but less fat) - so the stall may be more doing that 3x a week is a bit too much.
I'm doing a modified 'starting strength' - I would consider if you do want the full 5x5 when on a cut - starting strength does 3x5.


I too find it frustrating when not improving on weights, when cutting, despite it generally being

I would take issue with weight lifting 'not helping with fat burning' - for me it DOES burn a lot of calories. I've measured my BMR a day after lifting at 2400calories a day when I was around 180lb I think. And that holds true to the amount I was eating at the time, but maintaining weight. 'YMMV' of course

For the OP:
What routine are you currently doing for your weights?
What cardio?

I might consider upping protein a bit if you can and see if that helps.

Be aware that your body only has so much 'recovery' capability, which is why we have rest days and so on.
On that basis, I've been trying to limit the Cardio I do to more steady state stuff and not for really extended periods - so I don't "use up" recovery capability by hammering it with high intensity cardio.

It may well come down to deciding whether to focus on either gaining for lifting or losing - for most experienced 'lifters the two are mutually exclusive - I've been pretty lucky so far - though I do reckon the 'leangains' style approach has made a difference.

Leangains guide:
http://www.leangains.com/search/label/Leangains Guide
More resources:
http://rippedbody.jp/

__freckles__

I'd like to start lifting (nothing crazy) to build my muscles and lose fat, too. Add me also please

Not sure what crazy lifting is....:huh:

__freckles__

Prior to injury I was squatting 140 and DL 185. Benching 105, OHP 80lbs and rows 140.

danimalkeys

I dont lose strength on a deficit. Just broke my PR.
try stronglifts 5x5 workout program

^ This!

I too am at a deficit and up the amount I lift by 10 pounds each week (lift 3x/week full body). Eat protein and lots of it!

That will happen with beginners/newer lifters, because you're training your central nervous system to fire more muscle cells at once time. More muscle cells firing at once= bigger lifts. You can make gains like this for a pretty long time while eating at a deficit and not gain any lean mass. You don't gain muscle mass while eating at a deficit, but you can get stronger for the reason I just wrote

I'm an experienced lifter and a former competitive powerlifter. I've found as my weight drops, so do my lifts. Weights I could get 5 reps of when I was 20lbs heavier I'm getting 2 reps of now. Right now lifting isn't my priority, I do it to retain lean mass and stay fit. Maxing out and increasing my lifts isn't a what I'm after, so the drop in strength doesn't bug me too much. A little, but I just adjust my routine to keep going.

loriq41

I'm in similar position to you, though I've got more to loose (maybe 20 to 30) and of course am bigger and male.
I've been using the 'leangains' approach where I eat more on lifting days and less on 'rest' days - about 1000 calories less on off days. I've just been adding some more cardio in on rest days.
So far for this time (I put a lot of weight on working away over summer), it's working very well.
I've been having to up my the food I've been eating (did have it on 1400/2400) as I felt I was losing too fast.
I've stalled on squat, but everything else is still going up - my squat figures put me getting quite close to 'advanced' on one of those calculators and on it if I was at my goal weight (so similar lean mass but less fat) - so the stall may be more doing that 3x a week is a bit too much.

I too find it frustrating when not improving on weights, when cutting, despite it generally being

I would take issue with weight lifting 'not helping with fat burning' - for me it DOES burn a lot of calories. I've measured my BMR a day after lifting at 2400calories a day when I was around 180lb I think. And that holds true to the amount I was eating at the time, but maintaining weight. 'YMMV' of course

For the OP:
What routine are you currently doing for your weights?
What cardio?

I might consider upping protein a bit if you can and see if that helps.

Be aware that your body only has so much 'recovery' capability, which is why we have rest days and so on.
On that basis, I've been trying to limit the Cardio I do to more steady state stuff and not for really extended periods - so I don't "use up" recovery capability by hammering it with high intensity cardio.

It may well come down to deciding whether to focus on either gaining for lifting or losing - for most experienced 'lifters the two are mutually exclusive - I've been pretty lucky so far - though I do reckon the 'leangains' style approach has made a difference.

Leangains guide:
http://www.leangains.com/search/label/Leangains Guide
More resources:
http://rippedbody.jp/

Full body, three times per week..squats, deadlifts, presses, assisted pullups, military row, bench dips, bicep curls, skullcrushers...not all in the same day..it is broken up. For cardio it is treadmill walking fast, elliptical, exercise bike..been doing more exercise bike lately as I am getting over a severely sprained big toe..ha ha

loriq41

I dont lose strength on a deficit. Just broke my PR.
try stronglifts 5x5 workout program

^ This!

I too am at a deficit and up the amount I lift by 10 pounds each week (lift 3x/week full body). Eat protein and lots of it!

That will happen with beginners/newer lifters, because you're training your central nervous system to fire more muscle cells at once time. More muscle cells firing at once= bigger lifts. You can make gains like this for a pretty long time while eating at a deficit and not gain any lean mass. You don't gain muscle mass while eating at a deficit, but you can get stronger for the reason I just wrote

I'm an experienced lifter and a former competitive powerlifter. I've found as my weight drops, so do my lifts. Weights I could get 5 reps of when I was 20lbs heavier I'm getting 2 reps of now. Right now lifting isn't my priority, I do it to retain lean mass and stay fit. Maxing out and increasing my lifts isn't a what I'm after, so the drop in strength doesn't bug me too much. A little, but I just adjust my routine to keep going.

As long as I can get rid of this fat and show what muscle I am trying to retain...that would be good..thanks!

geebusuk

What sets and reps for those? How many different moves per day? (Ie, squat, bp and dl for 3 in a day)

For me, eating more seems to be helping, but I don't know how that translates to someone with 75lb less


From recent eating at a deficit and lifts going up - trousers that in the past at this weight were a bit tight around the waist - are now fine around the waist, but tight around the thighs.
Similar story for a shirt which was tight in the RIGHT areas.

There's plenty of examples of experienced lifters on the rippedbody.jp site gaining strength and losing fat - don't know about physical size of muscles..

Does anyone have studies done on new lifters as opposed to experienced ones for this aspect?

WendyTerry420

I'd like to start lifting (nothing crazy) to build my muscles and lose fat, too. Add me also please

Not sure what crazy lifting is....:huh:

This would be crazy lifting:

__freckles__

I'd like to start lifting (nothing crazy) to build my muscles and lose fat, too. Add me also please

Not sure what crazy lifting is....:huh:

This would be crazy lifting:

OMG......that's just plain stupid. Seriously, WTF?

greenmonstergirl

I dont lose strength on a deficit. Just broke my PR.
try stronglifts 5x5 workout program

^ This!

I too am at a deficit and up the amount I lift by 10 pounds each week (lift 3x/week full body). Eat protein and lots of it!

That will happen with beginners/newer lifters, because you're training your central nervous system to fire more muscle cells at once time. More muscle cells firing at once= bigger lifts. You can make gains like this for a pretty long time while eating at a deficit and not gain any lean mass. You don't gain muscle mass while eating at a deficit, but you can get stronger for the reason I just wrote

I'm an experienced lifter and a former competitive powerlifter. I've found as my weight drops, so do my lifts. Weights I could get 5 reps of when I was 20lbs heavier I'm getting 2 reps of now. Right now lifting isn't my priority, I do it to retain lean mass and stay fit. Maxing out and increasing my lifts isn't a what I'm after, so the drop in strength doesn't bug me too much. A little, but I just adjust my routine to keep going.

How long am I considered a biginner as I've been doing this a year now. I'm by no means an expert just curious after this next year if I'll still be able to eat at a deficit (or maybe I won't have to, maybe all my fat will be gone by then?) and will I be able to still increase my strength each week (even if by a little?). Hell, I just want fat gone and muscles to get bigger to fill in all this loose skin.