For all women who are striving for "
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I actually have not found any celebrity to be "perfect" looking, tall or small, curvy or slender...but most of them are pretty enough to look at, even to a woman's eyes.
I want to be thin just because I have never been thin so I want to have it, not because I want to look like them.. 0 -
I actually have not found any celebrity to be "perfect" looking, tall or small, curvy or slender...but most of them are pretty enough to look at, even to a woman's eyes. I want to be thin just because I have never been thin so I want to have it, not because I want to look like them..
It's not about you thinking one celebrity is perfect. It's the whole idea that there is perfect to be achieved and we pit one celebrity against another "well so and so has the best lips, but so and so has a better chest but no one beats so and so legs and so and so butt is so awesome she has it insured. If you combine these 5 celebrities you'd have the most beautiful person ever" And that's what we view as perfect. whatever conglomeration of digitally enhanced unattainable celebrity features we think are most desirable. And that is what we strive to look like. Whether we know it or not.
Yes, they are pretty enough.. esp once they are photoshopped.... some of them are pretty regardless, but we don't know if that's what they really look like is it? But that's the thing.. I am pretty, you are pretty. We don't need to change anything.
So many girls are sucked into this "i need to look like Cindy Crawford" thought process because that's what the media teaches them. You see them on this site all the time. striving to be the "perfect" weight. or the "perfect" proportion or have the "perfect" face or body.. Of course there is not such thing as perfect. But that doesn't seel cosmetics, or clothing or cologne or cigarettes or cars, or whatever.. Assigning beauty to it does.. But since there is no "perfect" person, they digitally alter models to look however the producers think will sell the product best. It teaches girls the wrong message. I hear it at from young girls mouths all the time. "i'm ugly", "I wish I was thinner" "i wish I had longer hair" " i wish my lips weren't so thin" "Why don't I have boobs yet". Yes.. i've heard this out of the mouth of babes while at my sons school functions. Even my own son calls himself ugly. And he can't really tell me why.. same as i'd bet those girls can't tell me why.
We teach our kids that looking a certain way is beautiful and that's what we strive to be. We don't do it on purpose. They watch us put on make up, shave, color our hair, get specific hair cuts, diet, workout, etc.. and if we don't present it right, they learn the wrong lesson from it.
We are all a victim of this. Whether we admit or not. Some of us have overcome it, some of us embrace it and some of us become anorexic or bulimic or cutters or whatever in order to escape it. But we have all faced it.0 -
It starts very, very young for both genders, but there is a big difference overall. Females are expected to be most summed up by attractiveness, while males are expected to be most summed up by a trait or activity.
Here is a cite for that, because me just saying it could sound like it's just my opinion. Bitter grapes or something, lol.
"In addition, our results showing the prevalence of female appearance-related stereotypes in the
descriptions of girls by even the youngest children raise questions about the potential
implications of this finding for girls’ behavioral and adjustment outcomes. Specifically, girls
who deviate from gender appearance stereotypes may incur peer rejection, leaving them
vulnerable to adjustment problems. Further, greater accessibility for appearance stereotypes
may also imply that girls and boys receive consistent messages about the most important
qualities girls should possess very early in development, which may leave girls vulnerable to
psychological distress should their self-esteem become contingent on self-perceived
attractiveness (Nolen-Hoeksema 2001; Ohring et al. 2002; Patrick et al. 2004).
A consideration of the content of stereotypes children viewed as most characteristic of boys
raises similar issues. Specifically, some of the most frequently mentioned trait stereotypes for
male targets included attributes that imply physically aggressive and anti-social behavior (e.g.,
mean, plays rough, fights; see Table 3). This emphasis on aggression may place boys at
significant emotional and physical risks. In addition, the preponderance of activity stereotypes
emphasizing athletics or sports among boys at all ages (with the exception of preschool) is
striking. Such a strong emphasis on athletic ability and roughness may set an unachievable
standard for boys who do not possess these qualities, potentially placing them at risk for poor
adjustment."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2709873/pdf/nihms96774.pdf
So when talking about physical appearance, I think it's fair to say that the gender split is definitely in favor of the guys. That's not to say that there is no pressure there for guys, obviously. But it's simply not the same issue as it is for our girls, especially.
There are lots of studies about adult women and society's emphasis on beauty, too, but I'll stick to kids here to make the point that it's all very ingrained and very societal. Men might not 'see' that, but then that just sort of proves how different it is to grow up a girl or boy! You'd be a bit clueless if you'd not been through it
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And those lessons we carry with us for years into adulthood. Some of us the rest of our lives. Look a certain way, wear certain clothes. I think a lot of us eventually get to a point where we see through it and see how much BS it is and how fake the images are. And get to a point where we truly do love ourselves for who we are. Honestly most of these girls who are hating their looks are not told they are ugly by their family or friends. Society does that and we are taught indirectly that it matters.0
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Not this drivel again... :noway:0
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I agree. These kinds of politics should stay out of MFP. This is a fitness site not a soapbox.0
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I also want to clarify on my above post that I don't disagree with the video. It was the posts following it with the crap about men loving meat, not bones, etc.
In addition to the video the OP shared, I would also like take it a step further, and point out that every women in this Dove ad not only have only one body type, but they are heavily photo shopped as well:
I find it interesting that none of these women have cellulite. Hell, I'm on the skinny side, and I have cellulite!!!!0 -
Would I be going out on a limb here if I said I thought the OP's message was to love yourself as you are and not what you think you might need to be?
I couldn't watch the video but I'm guessing it's message was the perfect are not perfect?0 -
the best curves are made of muscle. I will continue to strive to be my best regardless of what anyone else thinks.0
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I think this argument has far more than one-sided.
Should people evaluate their own beauty based on the unrealistic models presented by social media? – I think we would all agree that this is not the best of ideas.
However, the answer to this question can often lead to the abandonment of any evaluation system. I.e. the man or woman that is 100 lbs+ over weight that demands society loves them because they are “beautiful the way they are.” This opinion is dramatically increasing along with the alarming rate of obesity (at least here in the US).
I believe we need to embrace somewhere in the middle. Health should ultimately be the goal. I am a skinny little Irishman. While I would love to look buff that probably won’t even happen with the way I train. Understanding my genetics I can come to a better model or goal for myself. I focus on strength knowing that I will most likely always be slim and fit and never the buff ideal man.
The moral of the story is that both extremes are unproductive; the overinflated airbrushed supermodels that can never be naturally obtained and the unhealthy obese individual abandoning all activities because they “should” be accepted as beautiful in our culture.
However there is yet another side of the coin that people often fail to realize is the impact of modern business practices. We complain that even plus size models are airbrushed but what advertisement company could survive the modern markets if they presented truly realistic unedited photos of their models? Isn’t it human nature to desire to “look good” in _____(insert band name) clothing? Any company (from tiny to plus size designers) would commit the equivalent of economic suicide if they didn’t use these practices and their competitors did. Just a thought to add to the complexity of this issue.0 -
There's no denying that obesity is an epidemic in this country, and not doing anything to change that isn't helping us as a society. It's driving up healthcare costs and dragging us down, as a whole. It starts with personal responsibility, educating yourself, and making better choices.
That said, I also see countless posts on this site by folks, both men and women, who lose 100 lbs, achieve healthy BMI's, yet still aren't happy. I think this segment is whom this video is aimed at.0 -
Stop ranting and watch the video. It is a problem for all society.0
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Plus,.. real men like curves and real boobs. Not digitally enhanced ones.. :~)
I really wish women would stop speaking for us.
“Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good.” ~ Vince Lombardi
And I wish people in general would quit with the idea that women live for men. I don't really care what men prefer, my body belongs to me and I'll shape it to whatever makes me happy.0 -
Ideally health and nutrition is what should be taught to our kids, but that's not what sells. Beauty sells. Creating ideals of perfection is what makes women buy make-up, whether it's to please ourselves, men or society. Being beautiful is separate from being skinny. The point is beauty and perfect is a concept created by the media. Something to strive for that we can't possibly obtain. Afterall if we obtain it, we no longer need to buy the new products they shove in front of our face right? Undeniably obesity is a problem, but it's not the point of this thread or the video. Loving yourself. Being taught you are beautiful leads to healthier kids,healthier teens and in theory less teens who are anorexic or bulimic. Being under weight is no better then being over weight. It's a marketing strategy and it's damaging us.
As the other poster pointed out, even Dove, who seems to embrace women off all shapes and sizes, still present their models as flawless despite carrying some extra pounds.Unrealistic. While they seem to saying women of all sizes are beautiful they still present women who are flawless. I have bumps and bruises and scars because I have lived, so does everyone.
And why do we need plus sizes? Psychologically that is damaging. Especially to young impressionable girls. (and I lived int eh plus sizes for a long long time). We don't need the label, we can just be a size 18 and not refer to it as a plus size 18.
The segment is aimed at all women esp those who suffer an ED because they are attempting to achieve "perfection" The size of the women or weight gain or loss is inconsequential to the issue. Healthy women, with healthy BMIs will still find imperfections because we do not have so and so legs or stomach or butt or chest. And that's what is being sold to us every time we look at an ad or turn on the TV.0 -
the best curves are made of muscle. I will continue to strive to be my best regardless of what anyone else thinks.
^^ this. I want to keep going because I want to see it myself...0 -
Plus,.. real men like curves and real boobs. Not digitally enhanced ones.. :~)
Nope. "Real" men like whatever the hell it is we like. What you enjoy sexually has nothing to do with "realness".0 -
There is actually an increase in men and boys presenting at eating disorder clinics (at least here in Aus). I would say there is just as much objectification of men as women and I would agree that men dont have the 'right' to bring it up. Men have to have 'big shoulders' and 'man up' about these things
My husband is a slender man, he weighs only 50kg and is ghostly pale like me. He is VERY self conscious, probably more so then his obese wife because I have parts of the media and my gf's telling me I'm a beautiful person and how good i look ect. Men don't have that privilege, men will pick on each other mercilessly in the guise of a joke. My husband wont take his t-shirt off at the beach because he is so self conscious of his body.
I think I get what the men here are trying to say. We can't JUST look at women's issues we have to look at SOCIETIES issues. and society has a messed up image of who we should be. I should be petite and my husband should be bulky. Neither of us fit this stereotype but I believe I have more support to change myself then my husband does. and yes these issues come froma history of patriarchy but that patriarchy is damaging men as much as women.
God bless you for your compassion and understanding. Yes, men do suffer, and FAR greater than most women realize. Just look at this thread as woman after woman danes to speak with authority on what men feel about women, and themselves.
They don't have a clue. The major difference between men and women on this topic is that women, in most western societies at least, are thankfully "allowed" to express concern about these matters, have a voice, and seek help if need be. Men and boys are expected to shoulder eating disorders, body dysmorphia, body shame, etc, in silence. Most don't feel comfortable expressing their issues with other males, and most women are utterly clueless about the suffering. And to top it off, in a bid to empower "real" women with "curves", and makes themselves feel better, we have all these women declaring what "real" men are attracted to and want in bed. Give me a break. That's the equivalent of the guys who think all "real" women like hulking muscles, which likewise is a bunch of bull.0 -
Each person has their own things they are attracted to, you cannot generalize an entire sex's preference. The stress to reach perfection reaches both sexes.
When it comes to self image, in my own opinion, there are only two things you need to worry about. Your health and your heart.
No amount of beauty can disguise an ugly heart.0 -
You may have amended your comment from "real men like..." to "men like..." but you haven't amended your attitude. I don't think any of the men are being overly sensitive, I think they have a right to say "well hang on, I don't want some lady stranger telling me what I like". Lumping all men into your experience of menfolk isn't really fair is it?
I'm sure some men do prefer big balloon boobies and bum injections, but that's their business and doesn't effect how I perceive myself in any way. Perhaps we, as in the current generation, should stop fretting about ourselves and how we are perceived and start thinking about how we are influencing those who come after us. Some social inheritance we are leaving eh?0 -
Watch the video.. otherwise don't comment. Thanks It's a comment about the video.
I never said there wasn't an issue facing men as well. I only saw an awesome video and wanted to share it.
I don't like fake anything on a man. Sure.. Shemar Moore's pictures are nice to look at, but i'm not fooled into thinking that is really does look that perfect. (but cant' say that was true when I was younger) It's more attractive when I see a person who has bumps and scars and imperfection, because they are real.
I just wanted to show the women out there, striving for perfection, that there is no perfection. The images of perfection we see are digitally created. Not only that, but a lot of women starve themselves to reach whatever magic number or look that they think men will like better. Maybe *you* don't. But a lot of them do. Especially the younger generation. yes it's mental, but it's learned by what we see on TV and in magazines and by what our brothers look at in catalogs (nevermind the look they are actually attracted to might be completely different)
Images of beauty are pushed on women and associates with everything from cars to fun nights out to dates to whatever. Even the Nike commercials where the woman is running and sweating, she still has perfect skin! (not me.. i'm red as hell when I run). it gives us the subconscious message that you have to be beautiful and perfect in order to be worthy of all this fun. A lot of young ladies are not able to overcome this. And as some point all women have felt that pressure. A lot of us cave.
Food for thought...
Do you wear make-up? Fooled yourself into thinking you are wearing it for you because you like it? It makes you feel good. Why is that? Why did you start wearing it then? I don't know many 4 year old who won't go out without mascara, unless they are trying to look like mommy that day. Sure.. maybe you'll go to the gym without it now or to the mailbox, but what about date night?? Maybe you have overcome it? Maybe you are now comfortable enough in your own skin to go out sans make up on date night. But what about 10 years ago?0 -
Plus,.. real men like curves and real boobs. Not digitally enhanced ones.. :~)
I really wish women would stop speaking for us.
“Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good.” ~ Vince Lombardi
haha men like whatever the heck they like...just as females like whatever the heck they want to. To each their own, right? I have found my self attracted to big guys & smaller guys0 -
I like my women like I like my coffee. I don't like coffee.0
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Perfection. Please watch this video. Please eat and love yourself for who you are and what you look like. We are all beautiful and unique and we need to stop striving for something that isn't obtainable in real life.
http://www.upworthy.com/5-minutes-of-what-the-media-actually-does-to-women-8?c=ufb3
Plus,.. real men like curves and real boobs. Not digitally enhanced ones.. :~)
I know you meant this in a good way but the whole real men like curves and real boobs thing bothers me. One you shouldn't be basing what you want to look like because of what "real men" like. Two Not cool to just generalize men like that. And lastly what about the skinny chicks without any boobs are we not desirable?
Agreed. And also I would like to add...I am not doing this because some man likes a certain thing! This is for me...my health and my own vision of what I want to be!0 -
Food for thought...
Do you wear make-up? Fooled yourself into thinking you are wearing it for you because you like it? It makes you feel good. Why is that? Why did you start wearing it then? I don't know many 4 year old who won't go out without mascara, unless they are trying to look like mommy that day. Sure.. maybe you'll go to the gym without it now or to the mailbox, but what about date night?? Maybe you have overcome it? Maybe you are now comfortable enough in your own skin to go out sans make up on date night. But what about 10 years ago?
I wear my make up because I don't want to look tired....And no I have not FOOLED myself into thinking it is for me. I KNOW my husband doesn't care. I care. I want to be the best version of me.0 -
Food for thought...
Do you wear make-up? Fooled yourself into thinking you are wearing it for you because you like it? It makes you feel good. Why is that? Why did you start wearing it then? I don't know many 4 year old who won't go out without mascara, unless they are trying to look like mommy that day. Sure.. maybe you'll go to the gym without it now or to the mailbox, but what about date night?? Maybe you have overcome it? Maybe you are now comfortable enough in your own skin to go out sans make up on date night. But what about 10 years ago?
I wear my make up because I don't want to look tired....And no I have not FOOLED myself into thinking it is for me. I KNOW my husband doesn't care. I care. I want to be the best version of me.
But why? Why is looking tired.. which is a normal way for humans to look, a bad thing? Why do we need to cover it with make up. Who told us or taught us that? Because you weren't 9 or 12 or 15 insisting on make-up because you don't want to look tired in public. (whatever age you either were able to get it yourself or your parents caved.. I was almost 16)
I'm not trying to pick on anyone. It's nothing personal. But there is more truth here then any of us want to admit. I'm not going to say I'm not guilty of this. And I do walk around saying i wear it for me so I don't look *whatever*. But that thought process comes from somewhere and often times its media telling me I need to look a certain way, irregardless of what guys have said. Yes. I've overcome most of it. I will and have gone out without make-up on date night. But I'm still not 100% comfortable with it and a lot of us aren't. And a lot more wouldn't dream of it. (i had a co-worker at one of my previous jobs who had been married for 40 years and woke up every single morning an hour before her husband to put on her make-up, so he wouldn't see her without it, that is sad in my opinion)0 -
Plus,.. real men like curves and real boobs.
This is body shaming. It's just as demoralizing as people who cut down larger women. This nonsense has to stop.
Yes, that statement is body shaming. I don't care what "real men" like anyway, or what other people see as an acceptable body image. I live in my body, and I love myself, therefore I say what is and is not acceptable for me.
Besides, there is nothing that makes a man "real," except honesty about who he is as a human being.
As for the video- it's excellent. The media goes to town on selling thin beautiful bodies that really are not all that thin and beautiful. It's like creating mannequins and trying to convince the world they are real.0 -
Ya'll are mean. :yawn:0
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Why do you say this?Ya'll are mean. :yawn:0 -
Plus,.. real men like curves and real boobs. Not digitally enhanced ones.. :~)
I really wish women would stop speaking for us.
“Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good.” ~ Vince Lombardi
LOL! So true! Why do some women speak for men like they know everything yet, if a man dares to generalize about a woman....!!!0 -
Perfection. Please watch this video. Please eat and love yourself for who you are and what you look like. We are all beautiful and unique and we need to stop striving for something that isn't obtainable in real life.
http://www.upworthy.com/5-minutes-of-what-the-media-actually-does-to-women-8?c=ufb3
Plus,.. real men like curves and real boobs. Not digitally enhanced ones.. :~)
How do you know what all men like? And what is the difference between a man and a "real" man? I don't understand these generalizations.
ETA: I think you mean well though 0
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