Switching to Stronglifts - muscle gain or just strength?

quellybelly

Cool. The madcow 5x5 sounds like the most logical progression.

There is no reason to attach a limit to it. Eventually you will stop being able to progress even after a deload or two and then you can look for another program. Or if you just find it boring.

^ this. You don't necessarily have to do it for x number of weeks. I eventually switched because I stopped being able to progress and also because I got bored and wanted to try something new and challenge myself

3laine75

So this is only a short term routine? Move onto another routine after 12 weeks? What would be the best routine for muscle growth to move onto afterwards?

Some people move on and some stick with it for months/years. I changed to wendlers 5/3/1 and that's working better for me (I have crazy weak upper body and couldn't get past 25/30 on OHP and bench) - it's based on the same lifts - one a day + accessories exercises. It's a slowered progression than SL, so I'm finally getting some gains on those lifts but that's me.

Loads of people can progress a lot further on SL. Give it a bash, that's the only way you'll know.

monty619

with strength comes muscular hypertrophy.. the nervous system can only adapt so much before you NEED to gain muscle in order to have strength gains.

cajuntank

Yep, you keep making linear progression as much as you can (i.e. adding weight to every workout) for 5x5, then at 3x5, then finally at 1x5. Of course all of these sets and reps do not take into account warmup sets and reps. http://warmupreps.com/#
I think I ran mine (might be wrong without going back to my spreadsheet) for about 30 weeks before I had to move squatting over to Madcow and a few weeks later in finishing my progression on the rest of the compounds at 1x5 to Madcow.

Madcow is a good next step beyond that as it introduces a system based on Bill Starr's 5x5 routine that called for a Heavy Medium Light system. You squat, bench, and row (or power-clean) heavy on say Monday, Wednesday you squat lighter (at 80% of training max for that week), press heavy but with fewer sets, and deadlift heavy. Then on Friday, you squat, bench, and row (or power-clean) at 90% of training max except a heavier triple which would be 5-10lbs heavier than Monday's max training weight. You then have a set of 8 reps called a back-off set to introduce some additional volume. You also have some accessory work allowed which includes some AB work, chins/pull-ups (which could have been done in Stronglifts as well), hypextensions, and some "beach work"... tricep and bicep focused sets.

The main concept in any good program is it will have protocol for enough volume, intensity, frequency, and de-loading as necessary to meet the goals of the program. All you have to do is stick to it and learn what works for you over time.

grantdumas7

Another good step is The Texas Method. Also another program to look at is ICF 5x5. It's similar to SL but does add a few exercises for arms.

alyhuggan

Personally I've done variants of a push pull leg split for over a year now and have seen insane results with both.

No matter if you are bodybuilding or strength training you will gain the other as a byproduct anyway. Strength training is pretty much guaranteed to put on muscle and bodybuilding is guaranteed to gain you strength, it's just bodybuilding tends to be better at putting on muscle when you know your body and strength training is much better for building up your lifts. In a deficit your lifts will go up but I am certain it's mainly due to form. For example on a deficit mine stalled at around 330lb as a one rep max for almost 6-7 months and after bulking I'm now 5lb shy of a 400lb deadlift. Personal preference really, however it's near impossible to look like Ogus or Jones by strength training.

moya_rargh

Cool. At my age, I'm not trying for the Jeff Seid look. As long as I gain muscle/strength and burn fat I'll be happy!

alyhuggan

Cool. At my age, I'm not trying for the Jeff Seid look. As long as I gain muscle/strength and burn fat I'll be happy!

It's near impossible to do both. You will definitely see strength gains and burn fat for a good few months+ at least since your form will be getting much better and your muscles used to the lifts, however this will eventually slow and then come to a stop. It's unlikely you will gain much/any muscle during this period however always lift whilst cutting to retain as much muscle as possible.

moya_rargh

Cool. At my age, I'm not trying for the Jeff Seid look. As long as I gain muscle/strength and burn fat I'll be happy!

It's near impossible to do both. You will definitely see strength gains and burn fat for a good few months+ at least since your form will be getting much better and your muscles used to the lifts, however this will eventually slow and then come to a stop. It's unlikely you will gain much/any muscle during this period however always lift whilst cutting to retain as much muscle as possible.

So you DON'T gain muscle on Stronglifts?

alyhuggan

Cool. At my age, I'm not trying for the Jeff Seid look. As long as I gain muscle/strength and burn fat I'll be happy!

It's near impossible to do both. You will definitely see strength gains and burn fat for a good few months+ at least since your form will be getting much better and your muscles used to the lifts, however this will eventually slow and then come to a stop. It's unlikely you will gain much/any muscle during this period however always lift whilst cutting to retain as much muscle as possible.

So you DON'T gain muscle on Stronglifts?

Not going to go into newbie gains as I haven't looked it up but in general while on a deficit you won't gain muscle doing anything. However whilst bulking and doing any strength programs you are pretty much guaranteed to put on muscle. In fact with my main lifts I still use a lower rep range. Overhead press I generally do 3-5, bench 4-8, deadlifts 1-8 and squats I do up to 8.

cajuntank

Cool. At my age, I'm not trying for the Jeff Seid look. As long as I gain muscle/strength and burn fat I'll be happy!

It's near impossible to do both. You will definitely see strength gains and burn fat for a good few months+ at least since your form will be getting much better and your muscles used to the lifts, however this will eventually slow and then come to a stop. It's unlikely you will gain much/any muscle during this period however always lift whilst cutting to retain as much muscle as possible.

So you DON'T gain muscle on Stronglifts?

Not going to go into newbie gains as I haven't looked it up but in general while on a deficit you won't gain muscle doing anything. However whilst bulking and doing any strength programs you are pretty much guaranteed to put on muscle. In fact with my main lifts I still use a lower rep range. Overhead press I generally do 3-5, bench 4-8, deadlifts 1-8 and squats I do up to 8.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

alyhuggan

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

It's near impossible to do both.

cajuntank

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

It's near impossible to do both.

"There are a handful of situations where the combination of muscle gain and fat loss occur relatively readily. The first of those is in overfat beginners. I want to really stress the term overfat in the above sentence. This phenomenon doesn’t happen in lean beginners for reasons I’m going to explain in a second.
A second situation where this phenomenon occurs readily is folks returning from a layoff. Folks who are previously lean and muscular but who get out of shape (whether deliberately or not) often find that they get back into shape much faster than they did initially: they seem to magically replace fat with muscle. In fact, with the advent of before/after transformation pictures for supplements, this has become a growth industry: people who are already in great shape will deliberately get out of great shape so that they can quickly reattain their previous shape in a short period. Apparently there is huge money in selling such before/after pictures to help move supplements." - direct quote from link provided.

MrGonzo05

Yes, Stronglifts will help you build muscle mass. It will give fantastic results considering the time you put in. It is only possible to add strength without hypertrophy for a few weeks of hard training. After that, if you continue to get stronger, it is due to hypertrophy.

alyhuggan

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

It's near impossible to do both.

"There are a handful of situations where the combination of muscle gain and fat loss occur relatively readily. The first of those is in overfat beginners. I want to really stress the term overfat in the above sentence. This phenomenon doesn’t happen in lean beginners for reasons I’m going to explain in a second.
A second situation where this phenomenon occurs readily is folks returning from a layoff. Folks who are previously lean and muscular but who get out of shape (whether deliberately or not) often find that they get back into shape much faster than they did initially: they seem to magically replace fat with muscle. In fact, with the advent of before/after transformation pictures for supplements, this has become a growth industry: people who are already in great shape will deliberately get out of great shape so that they can quickly reattain their previous shape in a short period. Apparently there is huge money in selling such before/after pictures to help move supplements." - direct quote from link provided.

I read that and I'm guessing it's due to muscle memory.

I still don't see how it's relevant in this thread?

cajuntank

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

It's near impossible to do both.

"There are a handful of situations where the combination of muscle gain and fat loss occur relatively readily. The first of those is in overfat beginners. I want to really stress the term overfat in the above sentence. This phenomenon doesn’t happen in lean beginners for reasons I’m going to explain in a second.
A second situation where this phenomenon occurs readily is folks returning from a layoff. Folks who are previously lean and muscular but who get out of shape (whether deliberately or not) often find that they get back into shape much faster than they did initially: they seem to magically replace fat with muscle. In fact, with the advent of before/after transformation pictures for supplements, this has become a growth industry: people who are already in great shape will deliberately get out of great shape so that they can quickly reattain their previous shape in a short period. Apparently there is huge money in selling such before/after pictures to help move supplements." - direct quote from link provided.

I read that and I'm guessing it's due to muscle memory.

I still don't see how it's relevant in this thread?

The question was asked "So you DON'T gain muscle on Stronglifts?" ... I answered.

auddii

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

It's near impossible to do both.

"There are a handful of situations where the combination of muscle gain and fat loss occur relatively readily. The first of those is in overfat beginners. I want to really stress the term overfat in the above sentence. This phenomenon doesn’t happen in lean beginners for reasons I’m going to explain in a second.
A second situation where this phenomenon occurs readily is folks returning from a layoff. Folks who are previously lean and muscular but who get out of shape (whether deliberately or not) often find that they get back into shape much faster than they did initially: they seem to magically replace fat with muscle. In fact, with the advent of before/after transformation pictures for supplements, this has become a growth industry: people who are already in great shape will deliberately get out of great shape so that they can quickly reattain their previous shape in a short period. Apparently there is huge money in selling such before/after pictures to help move supplements." - direct quote from link provided.

I read that and I'm guessing it's due to muscle memory.

I still don't see how it's relevant in this thread?

The question was asked "So you DON'T gain muscle on Stronglifts?" ... I answered.

But, looking at the photos of the guy who asked the question, he's not over fat, and he did not mention trying to regain a physique after years of lifting, so I'm guessing the second situation wouldn't apply either. Most people are not able to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. In addition, newbie gains will be relatively slow and don't last all that long. It would be much more efficient to do bulk/cut cycles if the OP's intention is to build muscle. But it seems like he still wants to cut for now.

OP, the great thing about SL is that it works great either during a cut or a bulk. Just keep in mind that you will be able to lift more on a bulk, and you may have to deload on a cut. I believe you are still cutting currently, so it's a good time to start the program since it suggests starting from the bar and working your way up.

ETA: Just realized this was in the gain weight section. Everything above still applies, but if you're eating at a surplus to gain weight, you will build muscle mass and gain fat (you always gain both, but a controlled/moderate bulk can limit fat gains). If you want more muscle definition, you may need to lose more fat off the top of the muscles. Or both, which is why I suggested the bulk/cut cycles.

cajuntank

Cool. At my age, I'm not trying for the Jeff Seid look. As long as I gain muscle/strength and burn fat I'll be happy!

The OP specifically mentioned about burning fat in this reply, so I answered with a link from Lyle McDonald's website who provides information based on scientific facts and testing on fat loss, muscle gains, and training.

alyhuggan

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

It's near impossible to do both.

"There are a handful of situations where the combination of muscle gain and fat loss occur relatively readily. The first of those is in overfat beginners. I want to really stress the term overfat in the above sentence. This phenomenon doesn’t happen in lean beginners for reasons I’m going to explain in a second.
A second situation where this phenomenon occurs readily is folks returning from a layoff. Folks who are previously lean and muscular but who get out of shape (whether deliberately or not) often find that they get back into shape much faster than they did initially: they seem to magically replace fat with muscle. In fact, with the advent of before/after transformation pictures for supplements, this has become a growth industry: people who are already in great shape will deliberately get out of great shape so that they can quickly reattain their previous shape in a short period. Apparently there is huge money in selling such before/after pictures to help move supplements." - direct quote from link provided.

I read that and I'm guessing it's due to muscle memory.

I still don't see how it's relevant in this thread?

The question was asked "So you DON'T gain muscle on Stronglifts?" ... I answered.

But, looking at the photos of the guy who asked the question, he's not over fat, and he did not mention trying to regain a physique after years of lifting, so I'm guessing the second situation wouldn't apply either. Most people are not able to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. In addition, newbie gains will be relatively slow and don't last all that long. It would be much more efficient to do bulk/cut cycles if the OP's intention is to build muscle. But it seems like he still wants to cut for now.

Took the words out my mouth!

3laine75

[/quote]

So you DON'T gain muscle on Stronglifts?
[/quote]


In surplus - YES

In deficit - NO