Squatting and deadlifting

stt43

I'm thinking about changing my routine from squatting and deadlifting twice per week to deadlifting five or six times per week, and squatting three or four times per week.
Is this a bad idea?

p.s. I've had a hamstring injury and I'm worried that I'll re-injure it.

JoRocka

What's the logic behind doing this?

what are you trying to accomplish?

jimmmer

That's a big jump in volume and depends upon a lot of things:

Diet, recovery, age, training experience/level, conditioning, sleep, stress, non-exercise activities, etc

Plus, since you are already carrying a posterior chain injury, I would be wary of this.

As per Jo, what's the rationale behind this?

dbmata

*sigh*

You know....

Try it, report back after a month.

navyrigger46

Deads are the greatest exercise known to man, but five times a week? That's a high intensity movement. I suppose if you cycled between full load and light load you could do it, but why? Squats as well. I don't even do the two on the same day anymore, I'd think that five times in a week would just wear me down and slow my progress.

Rigger

Iron_Lotus

It's unnecessary, more is not always better. Rest is crucial for muscle development.

stt43

I'm hoping that it will improve my strength.
I wouldn't be doing maxes or anything, just like 5x5 on around 70% probably.

JoRocka

I'm hoping that it will improve my strength.
I wouldn't be doing maxes or anything, just like 5x5 on around 70% probably.

strength gains require rest.

I suspect at that volume you won't be getting it.

bitten2better

If you're looking at doing a 5*5 want to improve your strength... That's about as close to description of StrongLifts 5*5 that you can come by...

jimmmer

I'm hoping that it will improve my strength.
I wouldn't be doing maxes or anything, just like 5x5 on around 70% probably.

Can you no longer add weight to the bar every session on the programme you're currently doing?

Your suggestion will not make you stronger UNLESS, you are following a very well laid out programme and you know your body and recovery potential backwards and inside and out (and can therefore refrain from pushing yourself too hard/too quickly). If you mess it up it will actually push you into overtraining rather rapidly and actually a) make you weaker and b) lengthen the time it will take you to recover your strength to your previous levels (depending on how much you f&ck it up)

stt43

I'd be having two rest days a week, as well as the other 23 hours a day when I'm not at the gym, and I was hoping that that would be enough.
There are millions of programmes out there and I just don't know which one to do. Plus, most include exercises which work the chest, and I'm don't want to work my chest at the moment, or they don't include the accessory movements which I want to do.

jimmmer

I'd be having two rest days a week, as well as the other 23 hours a day when I'm not at the gym, and I was hoping that that would be enough.
There are millions of programmes out there and I just don't know which one to do. Plus, most include exercises which work the chest, and I'm don't want to work my chest at the moment, or they don't include the accessory movements which I want to do.

You're not going to include any push exercises? Or just vertical push?

What are the accessories you're looking for?

jorralee

Why don't you want to work the chest at all? i don't know what your lifts are but you could look into wendler's 531 in his new book beyond 531 he has so many workout templates you can follow all based around squat, deadlif,t bench and overhead press

stt43

I'll be doing overhead press.
The accessories I'm looking for will be for my shoulders and upper back.
I have bad posture with my shoulders hunching/rolling forward. This is why I am not doing chest exercises and want to do a lot more on my shoulders/upper back.
I also have a really weak core, so I was hoping to do core exercises, but also strengthen it a lot by deadlifting and squatting more regularly.

stt43

I'd heard Wendler 531 was a bit outdated and there are better, more recent programmes, but this may not be true.

jimmmer

I'd heard Wendler 531 was a bit outdated and there are better, more recent programmes, but this may not be true.

It doesn't have a sell by date...

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm thinking you don't really want to be programming your own routine. It's going to lead to overtraining, muscular imbalances, getting weaker... chose a recognised routine that is the closest fit to what you want to achieve and your lifting experience and give it the old college try.

stt43

I'd heard Wendler 531 was a bit outdated and there are better, more recent programmes, but this may not be true.

It doesn't have a sell by date...

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm thinking you don't really want to be programming your own routine. It's going to lead to overtraining, muscular imbalances, getting weaker... chose a recognised routine that is the closest fit to what you want to achieve and your lifting experience and give it the old college try.

I mean outdated as in it has flaws, and that programmes since are better as they don't have the same flaws, like Windows 98 is outdated compared to Windows 7.
I can't find a recognised routine that fits what I want though, that's the problem. There aren't really any routines that cut out chest completely, and focus on a lot of upper back and shoulder accessory, along with lots of squatting and deadlifting.

stt43

I already have a lot of muscular imbalances and I'm trying to use my own routine to correct these. I can't find a programme which is tried and tested and which helps with my specific muscular imbalances unfortunately.

alyhuggan

Do you do any work on the posterior (rear) head of the deltoid?

Cutting out chest does not sound like an intelligent idea, it will just start to lag behind other muscles.

Besides, from what you say it sounds like it's your deltoid that is the problem. Just keep chest to once a week and then work your back two to three times a week. Make sure to hit your rear delts at least twice a week, it might help pull your shoulders back and make them look even again.

Also, minimize your front deltoid work to once a week as well. Try avoid any isolations such as front raises. I would even consider removing the overhead press, although being an amazing exercise it puts a lot of stress on the front deltoid.

ElliottTN

I think it is a great idea if you never want your deadlift to really progress.

Escape_Artist

I'd heard Wendler 531 was a bit outdated and there are better, more recent programmes, but this may not be true.

It doesn't have a sell by date...

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm thinking you don't really want to be programming your own routine. It's going to lead to overtraining, muscular imbalances, getting weaker... chose a recognised routine that is the closest fit to what you want to achieve and your lifting experience and give it the old college try.

I mean outdated as in it has flaws, and that programmes since are better as they don't have the same flaws, like Windows 98 is outdated compared to Windows 7.
I can't find a recognised routine that fits what I want though, that's the problem. There aren't really any routines that cut out chest completely, and focus on a lot of upper back and shoulder accessory, along with lots of squatting and deadlifting.

5/3/1 is actually a very good program.

The reason you shouldn't squat and DL as much is because it will be hard to progress with your lift and also think about recovery. I mean DLs are big heavy comp. moves you wanna give your body a chance to recover from the lifts...

I also don't think building your own program is a good thing..

Muscle imbalance often happens because of bad form and/or not working the muscles evenly, which is exactly what you are doing.

I think you should work your chest, I do understand you have issues with a shoulder but that doesn't mean you cannot work chest at all. doing that WILL most likely lead to even more muscle imbalance which could lead to some pretty nasty injuries.

I suggest you get a good program like 5/3/1, SL or even SS and start low weight, good form, correct your posture and go from there.

Just my 2 cents though

stt43

Do you do any work on the posterior (rear) head of the deltoid?

Cutting out chest does not sound like an intelligent idea, it will just start to lag behind other muscles. Besides, from what you say it sounds like it's your deltoid that is the problem. Just keep chest to once a week and then work your back two to three times a week. Make sure to hit your rear delts at least twice a week, it might help pull your shoulders back into place.

I do lots of rowing, face pulls, reverse flies, and all of the usual shoulder exercises. It doesn't seem to be helping much so far, but my posture is a mess so I know it'll take a while to fix.
I've heard that working my chest will tighten my chest muscles and pull my shoulders forward more. I think it was overworking my chest and not working my back enough that was one of the main things which created the problem in the first place.

No_Finish_Line

5 days a week means your going to do the same lift consecutive days.

Not recommended.

On the other hand rules are made to be broken. I've done the same lift on consecutive days for something different/trying to break plateaus.

I wouldn't do it for more then a month at a time, if you do do it.

also doesn't seem to be a good idea if you have a history of injury

stt43

Don't professional athletes do the same exercises pretty much every day though?
I know I'm not a professional athlete, but presumably they weren't either when they started.

alyhuggan

Do you do any work on the posterior (rear) head of the deltoid?

Cutting out chest does not sound like an intelligent idea, it will just start to lag behind other muscles. Besides, from what you say it sounds like it's your deltoid that is the problem. Just keep chest to once a week and then work your back two to three times a week. Make sure to hit your rear delts at least twice a week, it might help pull your shoulders back into place.

I do lots of rowing, face pulls, reverse flies, and all of the usual shoulder exercises. It doesn't seem to be helping much so far, but my posture is a mess so I know it'll take a while to fix.
I've heard that working my chest will tighten my chest muscles and pull my shoulders forward more. I think it was overworking my chest and not working my back enough that was one of the main things which created the problem in the first place.

From what I've read it is going to take a long time to fix it, not just a couple of months. Just stick to at least 2 days with rear delt work preferably with a few days rest in between.

You will destroy your CNS if you do extreme amounts of deadlifts and squats. I'd stick to deadlifts and squats twice a week max.

By not working your chest at all you will most likely create farther imbalances. Work it at least once a week and avoid incline presses. Dumbbells might be better, I always feel dumbbells a lot less in the deltoid than I do with a barbell.

Good luck!

alyhuggan

Don't professional athletes do the same exercises pretty much every day though?
I know I'm not a professional athlete, but presumably they weren't either when they started.

Most professional athletes that do the same exercises every day are also taking GH, steroids, insulin and whatever else so their recovery times are exceptionally higher.

jimmmer

Don't professional athletes do the same exercises pretty much every day though?
I know I'm not a professional athlete, but presumably they weren't either when they started.

Most professional athletes that do the same exercises every day are also taking GH, steroids, insulin and whatever else so their recovery times are exceptionally higher.

Also, don't forget that professional athletes are already blessed with great genetics. Only a slim percentage of the population has the ability to rise to the top.

This is why you should shy away from training for pro bodybuilders/powerlifters/athletes. Drugs+Genetically gifted recovery puts them in a place you can't touch...

stt43

Ok, well I can't afford any books. What websites have the best routines?

No_Finish_Line

Don't professional athletes do the same exercises pretty much every day though?
I know I'm not a professional athlete, but presumably they weren't either when they started.

i would not assume pro athletes are doing the same exercises every day

i'd imagine that their 'routines' are typically far more varied then most people making a living some other way.

jimmmer

To specifically answer your question, there are routines that the common man (or woman) can attempt that have everyday lifting. Even Easier Strength by Dan John is one such programme.

Although the volume and intensity is pretty low (and you need to be able to stick to the low volume/intensity or else you'll eff up the programme) he still warns people off conventional deads. Self limiting deads like snatch grip or fat-bar deads are the recommendations for the programme specifically because you'll avoid cns burnout due to grip being a limiting factor.

I've done it whilst a new father (so on limited sleep) and survived just fine. However, I didn't mess around and try to be a hero with it, either. I stuck strictly to sub-maximal loads as per the instructions. I could see it would be easy to dig yourself a hole with it, if you lack sufficient discipline...

(FYI lifting programmes aren't like operating systems. Reg Park's 5x5 is 60-70 years old and will still get you big and strong. Bill Starr's Big 3 is, what, 40-50 years old now and will still make you a powerhouse. Good programmes stand the test of time and as long as they are aimed at your lifting level and chime with your goals will still be good in another 50 years. 5/3/1 will stand the test of time, I'm sure.)

stt43

Can anyone recommend a simple squat/deadlift/bench, 3 days on 1 day off, tried and tested, available online, routine?
Or does such a thing not exist?
It may be better if I start a new thread to ask.