Squatting and deadlifting
Replies
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Aliens!! Because Aliens!
THAT's probably more self explanatory than what you are asking!
Because clearly your not going to listen to us anyway...
But anyway I'll give you 2 tips about this....
1) Bad hamstring + Deadlifts = Busted up lifter! That's not me shooting you down - I've Deadlifted with Hamstring DOMS. I was weak as a kitten, and could not even rep out lower weights.
2) Stomach sticking out - You DO realise that to Deadlift 5 times a week, and use enough weight so it's not a waste of time, you'll have to eat a truck load of food a day - especially carbs to recover? Guess what!? TRUCK LOAD OF FOOD + Waste of time Deadlifts = Food Baby!!
Your argument about professional sports persons is invalid.. YOU do not have the access to the same group of experts who produce their diets, enforce their rest periods, Cycle their volume, Push them when they need, provide them with the best supplements. And give them expert heath care to recover..
Oh, but sorry, I forgot, you are already an professional in the sport of trolling, take a bow son. I'm awarding you a gold medal...
Of course the only way you can prove me wrong is by listening to the original advice on the first few pages, and stop training you legs\deadlifts until your hamstring is better!0 -
Aliens!! Because Aliens!
THAT's probably more self explanatory than what you are asking!
Because clearly your not going to listen to us anyway...
But anyway I'll give you 2 tips about this....
1) Bad hamstring + Deadlifts = Busted up lifter! That's not me shooting you down - I've Deadlifted with Hamstring DOMS. I was weak as a kitten, and could not even rep out lower weights.
2) Stomach sticking out - You DO realise that to Deadlift 5 times a week, and use enough weight so it's not a waste of time, you'll have to eat a truck load of food a day - especially carbs to recover? Guess what!? TRUCK LOAD OF FOOD + Waste of time Deadlifts = Food Baby!!
Your argument about professional sports persons is invalid.. YOU do not have the access to the same group of experts who produce their diets, enforce their rest periods, Cycle their volume, Push them when they need, provide them with the best supplements. And give them expert heath care to recover..
Oh, but sorry, I forgot, you are already an professional in the sport of trolling, take a bow son. I'm awarding you a gold medal...
Of course the only way you can prove me wrong is by listening to the original advice on the first few pages, and stop training you legs\deadlifts until your hamstring is better!
I don't mind if my stomach sticks out from food, I'm saying that the fact that my posture is so bad and my core is so weak that it causes my belly to stick out then it's a problem.
I am no trolling.
My hamstring is better, I was saying that I had injured it before.
And as I said above, I've decided not to squat and deadlift 4-6 times per week: I'm just going to do an upper/lower split, so I will only be hitting each body part at most three times a week with at least two days off from a particular bodypart in between exercising it, and will probably have additional days off depending on my schedule, and deload weeks when needed.0 -
Just by looking at you, you would do better focusing on full body routines 3-4x a week for a few months rather than entering straight into a split.0
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Have you checked out Power to the People by Pavel Tsatsouline? It may be right up your alley and is a tried and true program with deadlifting 5x per week. I've done frequent deadlifting myself and see no problem with it when approached the right way.
That sounds perfect, thank you!
PTTP/Easy Strength/Even Easier Strength/Squat Everyday work because the volume is so low and also the intensity is managed and waved properly. That's how you can lift with that frequency. Pavel/Dan John/Matt Perryman and others have all made intelligent cases for everyday training. It's greasing the groove type of stuff. Optimising the CNS without overloading it (or ruining your tendons/ligaments/joints in the process)
It can work, I've done it for a front squat/fat grip deadlift combo on minimal sleep and didn't burn out. Will it actually work? Well, that depends on how sensible the lifter is mostly. You sound like you don't have a great handle on your body, so I wouldn't actually recommend it to you (yet). Mess this kind of programming up and you could end up not being able to train properly for a while...
Just stick to a normal, balance routine (and chuck in some flexibility/mobility/isometrics work to sort out your posture) and you'll be fine.0 -
Just by looking at you, you would do better focusing on full body routines 3-4x a week for a few months rather than entering straight into a split.
I don't like full body routines. I have been doing pull/push/legs for a while, but I want to change to an upper/lower so that I'll have more frequency on lifts as well as more frequent days off.0 -
Have you checked out Power to the People by Pavel Tsatsouline? It may be right up your alley and is a tried and true program with deadlifting 5x per week. I've done frequent deadlifting myself and see no problem with it when approached the right way.
That sounds perfect, thank you!
PTTP/Easy Strength/Even Easier Strength/Squat Everyday work because the volume is so low and also the intensity is managed and waved properly. That's how you can lift with that frequency. Pavel/Dan John/Matt Perryman and others have all made intelligent cases for everyday training. It's greasing the groove type of stuff. Optimising the CNS without overloading it (or ruining your tendons/ligaments/joints in the process)
It can work, I've done it for a front squat/fat grip deadlift combo on minimal sleep and didn't burn out. Will it actually work? Well, that depends on how sensible the lifter is mostly. You sound like you don't have a great handle on your body, so I wouldn't actually recommend it to you (yet). Mess this kind of programming up and you could end up not being able to train properly for a while...
Just stick to a normal, balance routine (and chuck in some flexibility/mobility/isometrics work to sort out your posture) and you'll be fine.
Thanks. I think I'm going to try an upper/lower for now, and maybe move onto one of these routines in the future to see what it's like.0 -
Seems most of the posters on this thread subscribe to what amounts to fairly modern lifting practices and seem to believe that those modern lifting practices are the only valid ones. Daily lifting was not unusual before the 1950s/1960s and, believe it or not, there were strong guys before the mid 20th century. More recently you can find lots of olympic lifting folks doing cleans (with more weight than most here are probably deadlifting) and various types of squats heavy on a near daily basis and programs like the smolov squat program are based on heavy, even high volume, daily lifting (yes, I can acknowledge that it is an advanced program).
While I can agree with jimmmer that the OP may not have the best handle on things and has the potential to mess himself up that is also a strong possibility with a more modern 2-3x per week plan. Something like Power to the People is intended to guide someone without a whole lot of experience. If the OP really wants to go the daily lifting route there are plenty of options out there for him to do so safely.0 -
Seems most of the posters on this thread subscribe to what amounts to fairly modern lifting practices and seem to believe that those modern lifting practices are the only valid ones. Daily lifting was not unusual before the 1950s/1960s and, believe it or not, there were strong guys before the mid 20th century. More recently you can find lots of olympic lifting folks doing cleans (with more weight than most here are probably deadlifting) and various types of squats heavy on a near daily basis and programs like the smolov squat program are based on heavy, even high volume, daily lifting (yes, I can acknowledge that it is an advanced program).
While I can agree with jimmmer that the OP may not have the best handle on things and has the potential to mess himself up that is also a strong possibility with a more modern 2-3x per week plan. Something like Power to the People is intended to guide someone without a whole lot of experience. If the OP really wants to go the daily lifting route there are plenty of options out there for him to do so safely.
Even smolov has rest days and not 5-6 days of squatting straight. I don't think we are all opposed to lifting every day- I lift 5 days a week on average. I think the bigger issue is trying to force that type of lifting 5-6 times a week by someone who honestly doesn't seem that knowledgeable about what's going on.
I do agree with that last bit- there are lots of options that include regular not 2-3 times a week lifting- but it's either a well rounded program typically or is a peaking program.0 -
Even smolov has rest days and not 5-6 days of squatting straight. I don't think we are all opposed to lifting every day- I lift 5 days a week on average. I think the bigger issue is trying to force that type of lifting 5-6 times a week by someone who honestly doesn't seem that knowledgeable about what's going on.
I do agree with that last bit- there are lots of options that include regular not 2-3 times a week lifting- but it's either a well rounded program typically or is a peaking program.
Sure, I think the OP needs some pre-built plan, that he keeps to the letter with, to get him going down the right road. Customizing and screwing around with different variables is once you know your own body better...0 -
Even smolov has rest days and not 5-6 days of squatting straight. I don't think we are all opposed to lifting every day- I lift 5 days a week on average. I think the bigger issue is trying to force that type of lifting 5-6 times a week by someone who honestly doesn't seem that knowledgeable about what's going on.
I do agree with that last bit- there are lots of options that include regular not 2-3 times a week lifting- but it's either a well rounded program typically or is a peaking program.
Sure, I think the OP needs some pre-built plan, that he keeps to the letter with, to get him going down the right road. Customizing and screwing around with different variables is once you know your own body better...
absolutely agree.
I think that's the issue- I think he is trying to tinker to much without the experience.0 -
Don't professional athletes do the same exercises pretty much every day though?
They do, and so do Olympic athletes, including olympic weightlifters. But they also have world-class coaches, sports physios, and nutrition coaches at their disposal.0 -
Far as I know, you don't get strength gains from low volume.
Re your question about a 3-day squat/bench/deadlift program, that sounds like SL or SS to me. 30-45 minutes a session, three sessions a week, means you train everything three times a week.
volume has very little to do with strength gains. the intensity of training is far more important. If you keep your frequency high, you can get away with low volume with no problem.0 -
I'll be doing overhead press.
The accessories I'm looking for will be for my shoulders and upper back.
I have bad posture with my shoulders hunching/rolling forward. This is why I am not doing chest exercises and want to do a lot more on my shoulders/upper back.
I also have a really weak core, so I was hoping to do core exercises, but also strengthen it a lot by deadlifting and squatting more regularly.
If you are hunching over and rolling your back while doing deadlifts there is a chance that you are doing more bad than good. Herniated discs are NOT fun. Have you considered working with a trainer?0 -
I think I'm just going to do an upper/lower split, it should give me good frequency without over doing it. Thanks for the input everyone.
If you're just going for strength, you should consider Wendler's 5/3/1. His Boring But Big, Template 2 is perfect.
You have a big lift for strength, followed by it's counterpart for reps and mass.
Example:
Upper Day 1
Bench [Strength] + Press 5x10 @ 50%
Upper Day 2
Press [Strength] + Bench 5x10 @ 50%
Same for Squats and Deadlifts on lower days.
His program is excellent, check it out.
I was curious about the newer templates for Wendler, but I didn't really know enough about it. I assume all of the Wendler stuff is in books and I don't really have any money to be buying things at the moment. Plus, won't that template still be just three days a week? I want something more frequent really.
It's 4 days a week actually. Here's the template + my assistance work.
5/3/1 program, BBB Template 2
Day 1: Bench 5/3/1 & Press 5x10 @ 50%
Day 3: Press 5/3/1 & Bench 5x10 @ 50%
+ Chins, Laterals, BB Incline, Curls
Day 2: Deadlift 5/3/1 & Squat 5x10 @ 50%
Day 4: Squat 5/3/1 & SL Deadlift 5 x 10
+ DB Row/BB Row, Smith Shrugs, Calf Raises, Standing Cable Crunch
I use a variant of the DL on my Squat days because I want to continue training the DL, and also hit the posterior chain a little more directly. SL DL does this very well.0 -
I was wondering about the form with deadlifts too. OP, you really need to make sure you lock your shoulders down and back - do not let them roll forward. You need to make sure there's a straight line from your hips to your head and locking your shoulders and engaging your core will ensure you keep this form. Otherwise you're just wasting your time doing these moves.
Also, had to comment on the no money for books thing. Check your local library!! If they don't have the book you're looking for, they'll likely be able to order it from another library. Totally free!0 -
Seems most of the posters on this thread subscribe to what amounts to fairly modern lifting practices and seem to believe that those modern lifting practices are the only valid ones. Daily lifting was not unusual before the 1950s/1960s and, believe it or not, there were strong guys before the mid 20th century. More recently you can find lots of olympic lifting folks doing cleans (with more weight than most here are probably deadlifting) and various types of squats heavy on a near daily basis and programs like the smolov squat program are based on heavy, even high volume, daily lifting (yes, I can acknowledge that it is an advanced program).
While I can agree with jimmmer that the OP may not have the best handle on things and has the potential to mess himself up that is also a strong possibility with a more modern 2-3x per week plan. Something like Power to the People is intended to guide someone without a whole lot of experience. If the OP really wants to go the daily lifting route there are plenty of options out there for him to do so safely.
Even smolov has rest days and not 5-6 days of squatting straight. I don't think we are all opposed to lifting every day- I lift 5 days a week on average. I think the bigger issue is trying to force that type of lifting 5-6 times a week by someone who honestly doesn't seem that knowledgeable about what's going on.
I do agree with that last bit- there are lots of options that include regular not 2-3 times a week lifting- but it's either a well rounded program typically or is a peaking program.
I was going to be doing 5-6 days in a row, I'd be taking a rest day every 3 days.0 -
Seems most of the posters on this thread subscribe to what amounts to fairly modern lifting practices and seem to believe that those modern lifting practices are the only valid ones. Daily lifting was not unusual before the 1950s/1960s and, believe it or not, there were strong guys before the mid 20th century. More recently you can find lots of olympic lifting folks doing cleans (with more weight than most here are probably deadlifting) and various types of squats heavy on a near daily basis and programs like the smolov squat program are based on heavy, even high volume, daily lifting (yes, I can acknowledge that it is an advanced program).
While I can agree with jimmmer that the OP may not have the best handle on things and has the potential to mess himself up that is also a strong possibility with a more modern 2-3x per week plan. Something like Power to the People is intended to guide someone without a whole lot of experience. If the OP really wants to go the daily lifting route there are plenty of options out there for him to do so safely.
This is what I'd heard, but I wasn't sure what the programs were or where to find them.0 -
I think I'm just going to do an upper/lower split, it should give me good frequency without over doing it. Thanks for the input everyone.
If you're just going for strength, you should consider Wendler's 5/3/1. His Boring But Big, Template 2 is perfect.
You have a big lift for strength, followed by it's counterpart for reps and mass.
Example:
Upper Day 1
Bench [Strength] + Press 5x10 @ 50%
Upper Day 2
Press [Strength] + Bench 5x10 @ 50%
Same for Squats and Deadlifts on lower days.
His program is excellent, check it out.
I was curious about the newer templates for Wendler, but I didn't really know enough about it. I assume all of the Wendler stuff is in books and I don't really have any money to be buying things at the moment. Plus, won't that template still be just three days a week? I want something more frequent really.
It's 4 days a week actually. Here's the template + my assistance work.
5/3/1 program, BBB Template 2
Day 1: Bench 5/3/1 & Press 5x10 @ 50%
Day 3: Press 5/3/1 & Bench 5x10 @ 50%
+ Chins, Laterals, BB Incline, Curls
Day 2: Deadlift 5/3/1 & Squat 5x10 @ 50%
Day 4: Squat 5/3/1 & SL Deadlift 5 x 10
+ DB Row/BB Row, Smith Shrugs, Calf Raises, Standing Cable Crunch
I use a variant of the DL on my Squat days because I want to continue training the DL, and also hit the posterior chain a little more directly. SL DL does this very well.
Sorry to hijack OP's thread, but here's a quick question. I'm doing wendlers too (love it) and have been toying with the idea of doing it 6 days instead of 4 (doesn't say anything about it in the book) - what's your thoughts? Thanks.0 -
Far as I know, you don't get strength gains from low volume.
Re your question about a 3-day squat/bench/deadlift program, that sounds like SL or SS to me. 30-45 minutes a session, three sessions a week, means you train everything three times a week.
volume has very little to do with strength gains. the intensity of training is far more important. If you keep your frequency high, you can get away with low volume with no problem.
Yeah, higher frequency and lower volume are what I'm looking for really.0 -
Sorry to hijack OP's thread, but here's a quick question. I'm doing wendlers too (love it) and have been toying with the idea of doing it 6 days instead of 4 (doesn't say anything about it in the book) - what's your thoughts? Thanks.
How would you do it 6 times per week?0 -
volume has very little to do with strength gains. the intensity of training is far more important. If you keep your frequency high, you can get away with low volume with no problem.
I'm going to disagree on your comment on volume and strength gains. While western programs tend towards lower volume and higher intensity ones from the east (e.g., Sheiko) tend more towards volume and "moderate" intensity. Both methods have produced world champions. Higher volume is going to tend to bring about neural improvements more quickly than low volume.0 -
I'll be doing overhead press.
The accessories I'm looking for will be for my shoulders and upper back.
I have bad posture with my shoulders hunching/rolling forward. This is why I am not doing chest exercises and want to do a lot more on my shoulders/upper back.
I also have a really weak core, so I was hoping to do core exercises, but also strengthen it a lot by deadlifting and squatting more regularly.
If you are hunching over and rolling your back while doing deadlifts there is a chance that you are doing more bad than good. Herniated discs are NOT fun. Have you considered working with a trainer?
No, I'm not hunching over and rolling my back when I deadlift.0 -
I think I'm just going to do an upper/lower split, it should give me good frequency without over doing it. Thanks for the input everyone.
If you're just going for strength, you should consider Wendler's 5/3/1. His Boring But Big, Template 2 is perfect.
You have a big lift for strength, followed by it's counterpart for reps and mass.
Example:
Upper Day 1
Bench [Strength] + Press 5x10 @ 50%
Upper Day 2
Press [Strength] + Bench 5x10 @ 50%
Same for Squats and Deadlifts on lower days.
His program is excellent, check it out.
I was curious about the newer templates for Wendler, but I didn't really know enough about it. I assume all of the Wendler stuff is in books and I don't really have any money to be buying things at the moment. Plus, won't that template still be just three days a week? I want something more frequent really.
It's 4 days a week actually. Here's the template + my assistance work.
5/3/1 program, BBB Template 2
Day 1: Bench 5/3/1 & Press 5x10 @ 50%
Day 3: Press 5/3/1 & Bench 5x10 @ 50%
+ Chins, Laterals, BB Incline, Curls
Day 2: Deadlift 5/3/1 & Squat 5x10 @ 50%
Day 4: Squat 5/3/1 & SL Deadlift 5 x 10
+ DB Row/BB Row, Smith Shrugs, Calf Raises, Standing Cable Crunch
I use a variant of the DL on my Squat days because I want to continue training the DL, and also hit the posterior chain a little more directly. SL DL does this very well.
Sorry to hijack OP's thread, but here's a quick question. I'm doing wendlers too (love it) and have been toying with the idea of doing it 6 days instead of 4 (doesn't say anything about it in the book) - what's your thoughts? Thanks.
NO!!
Use the extra 2 to 3 days for conditioning work and stretching/foam rolling. Wendler wants you to do hill sprints but any kind of HIIT should do.
Google programming as it relates to strength training.0 -
I was wondering about the form with deadlifts too. OP, you really need to make sure you lock your shoulders down and back - do not let them roll forward. You need to make sure there's a straight line from your hips to your head and locking your shoulders and engaging your core will ensure you keep this form. Otherwise you're just wasting your time doing these moves.
Also, had to comment on the no money for books thing. Check your local library!! If they don't have the book you're looking for, they'll likely be able to order it from another library. Totally free!
Yeah, I think my form is fine, my back is straight and everything, but thanks.
I may see what's in the university library.0 -
Mehdi from Stronglifts has mentioned that he's been doing a squat everyday program by Matt Perryman for a while. I'm not a part of his "inner circle", but I'd imagine the info on that program is out there if you want to look for it.Seems most of the posters on this thread subscribe to what amounts to fairly modern lifting practices and seem to believe that those modern lifting practices are the only valid ones. Daily lifting was not unusual before the 1950s/1960s and, believe it or not, there were strong guys before the mid 20th century. More recently you can find lots of olympic lifting folks doing cleans (with more weight than most here are probably deadlifting) and various types of squats heavy on a near daily basis and programs like the smolov squat program are based on heavy, even high volume, daily lifting (yes, I can acknowledge that it is an advanced program).
While I can agree with jimmmer that the OP may not have the best handle on things and has the potential to mess himself up that is also a strong possibility with a more modern 2-3x per week plan. Something like Power to the People is intended to guide someone without a whole lot of experience. If the OP really wants to go the daily lifting route there are plenty of options out there for him to do so safely.
This is what I'd heard, but I wasn't sure what the programs were or where to find them.0 -
Sorry to hijack OP's thread, but here's a quick question. I'm doing wendlers too (love it) and have been toying with the idea of doing it 6 days instead of 4 (doesn't say anything about it in the book) - what's your thoughts? Thanks.
How would you do it 6 times per week?
Wk1
OHP
Deads
Bench
Squat
OHP
Deads
Day off
Wk2
Bench
Squat
OHP
Deads
Bench
Squats
Adding the weight/reps from the next week, if you know what I mean?0 -
OP, PM me. If I can find my copy of Power to the People I would be happy to send it to you. Even if you don't use the program there is a lot of good info in the book. Note that you really should give any plan you try at least a few months.0
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Mehdi from Stronglifts has mentioned that he's been doing a squat everyday program by Matt Perryman for a while. I'm not a part of his "inner circle", but I'd imagine the info on that program is out there if you want to look for it.Seems most of the posters on this thread subscribe to what amounts to fairly modern lifting practices and seem to believe that those modern lifting practices are the only valid ones. Daily lifting was not unusual before the 1950s/1960s and, believe it or not, there were strong guys before the mid 20th century. More recently you can find lots of olympic lifting folks doing cleans (with more weight than most here are probably deadlifting) and various types of squats heavy on a near daily basis and programs like the smolov squat program are based on heavy, even high volume, daily lifting (yes, I can acknowledge that it is an advanced program).
While I can agree with jimmmer that the OP may not have the best handle on things and has the potential to mess himself up that is also a strong possibility with a more modern 2-3x per week plan. Something like Power to the People is intended to guide someone without a whole lot of experience. If the OP really wants to go the daily lifting route there are plenty of options out there for him to do so safely.
This is what I'd heard, but I wasn't sure what the programs were or where to find them.
Yes, but is someone is advanced enough to want to do that they probably don't need to ask if it's ok. Most beginners should be able to run these programs as is for some years.0 -
Ty michail - I'm a noted cardio dodger
0 -
OP, PM me. If I can find my copy of Power to the People I would be happy to send it to you. Even if you don't use the program there is a lot of good info in the book. Note that you really should give any plan you try at least a few months.
Thank you, that's very kind of you, but I think I've found a copy of it online. It will be a while before I am able to read through it, so I won't be trying anything like it for a while at least.0
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