Need serious help with SUGAR!!!!
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The amount of misinformation and willful ignorance about alcohol addiction in this thread, baffles me to no end.:grumble:
I think it is safe to say that several people here do NOT have a future as substance abuse counselors. Good thing, as they would really suck at it.
If there us misinformation in the thread then I would suggest you should correct it with valid information. Otherwise, you are just not contributing at all. And this goes for everyone in the thread. In fact I believe this thread has made a ton of progress since the beginning where its developed into real discussion and debate instead of name calling and just saying your wrong. If it bothers you what people say, then I would advise leaving the thread or become more engaged without emotion.
I will note these last few pages have more rhetorical and pondering than overall debate. Heck, its the reason we as mods have let this go on for so long. There was a turning point I noticed where it became a beneficial and constructive. With that said I hope it stays on that track.
Additionally, most of us are probably not phd's, but if you work in the field or have advance experience or knowledge I would hope you provide it0 -
What would have impressed me is if she went out in the middle of the night to get a bag of sugar to eat. Hell I've gotten up in the middle of the night with no "treats" in the cupboard and ate some uncooked spaghetti. Why? Because it was there. Doesn't mean I'm "addicted" to spaghetti. It just happen to be the only thing I could eat without cooking at the time.I doubt anything less than a full concession would satisfy certain people.
BTW, my SIL confessed to me once about her sugar 'addiction'. In an attempt to stop her constant binging on chocolate, cookies, cakes, etc, she had stopped bringing them into the house. One night she couldn't sleep and got up and went to the pantry, looking for ANYTHING sweet. She found a half-used old bag of brown sugar in the far back corner, that was so old it had turned into a solid rock. She put the rock in a bowl, put some butter on top to help soften it, then microwaved it til it was melted. Stirred it up and ate the whole bowl with a spoon.
Yeah, that is pretty messed up.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
The amount of misinformation and willful ignorance about alcohol addiction in this thread, baffles me to no end.:grumble:
I think it is safe to say that several people here do NOT have a future as substance abuse counselors. Good thing, as they would really suck at it.
If there us misinformation in the thread then I would suggest you should correct it with valid information. Otherwise, you are just not contributing at all. And this goes for everyone in the thread. In fact I believe this thread has made a ton of progress since the beginning where its developed into real discussion and debate instead of name calling and just saying your wrong. If it bothers you what people say, then I would advise leaving the thread or become more engaged without emotion.
I will note these last few pages have more rhetorical and pondering than overall debate. Heck, its the reason we as mods have let this go on for so long. There was a turning point I noticed where it became a beneficial and constructive. With that said I hope it stays on that track.
There are many doctors and researchers who see alcohol and drug abuse as simple coping mechanism for extreme psychological pain and distress instead of the commonly accepted 'have no ability to stop drinking'. It has been shown time and again that they can in fact, stop drinking if the reward is high enough. To treat their self medication with real treatment and actual medications to address their psychological pain makes life so much more rewarding and people need to self medicate less and less. To label alcoholism a disease is to take the control out of the 'diseased' person's hands, in essence, teaching them that they are helpless, is a great disservice to these people. The same with labeling overeating as an 'addiction'. Treat the underlying chemical imbalances, and people no longer need to self medicate with food. I can personally attest that I self medicated with food as a teenager because I had undiagnosed depression and GAD. Once that was under control with medication, my desire to over consume sweet foods was greatly diminished.
I agree that I would like to see some actual information from those who disagree. Myself, I think it is so much more compassionate to view alcohol, drug and food 'addictions' as sensible choices for those in psychological pain, as well as it making a whole lot of sense.
The original rat studies that led scientists to believe alcohol and drugs to be addicting were done in rats that were in isolated environments and were tethered to a drug reward system that was directly wired to their brains through a device that was fastened to their skulls with screws. :ohwell: It's no wonder they hit that lever 100 times a day even to the point of death. They had nothing to live for. It's time we moved past that old paradigm IMO.0 -
The amount of misinformation and willful ignorance about alcohol addiction in this thread, baffles me to no end.:grumble:
I think it is safe to say that several people here do NOT have a future as substance abuse counselors. Good thing, as they would really suck at it.
It would be nice if someone as educated and sensitive as you could actually add information to the discussion instead of just attacking people.0 -
OK, I didn't read all of this. But the bits I did - interesting discussion.
I only started on this website a few days ago. And am also wondering about my sugar intake: Calories in check, as are total carbs, fat, protein. Sugars - always more than "allowed" by the website. Looking through what I eat, most of the sugars come from fruit, no "junk" in there. So - do I now feel riddled by guilt because of this high sugar intake, do I cut down fruit and live on cucumber or tomatoes, or do I simply ignore it, because I like fruit and it really is meant to be good for you - whatever that exactly means?
Unless you have blood sugar control problems (diabetes, hypoglycemia, etc) then there's no reason for you to even track sugar. Go to your diary, click Settings, and track something else like fiber instead.
Don't like 1 in 3 of us have blood sugar issues?
Highly unlikely. If anything, it's more like 5-10%. And the question would be, was the insulin issue caused by genetics or poor nutrition?
According to the NDIC and CDC
11.3% of all people 20 yrs or older, have full blown Diabetes.
In 2005–2008, based on fasting glucose or A1C levels, 35 percent of U.S. adults ages 20 years or older had prediabetes—50 percent of those ages 65 years or older. Applying this percentage to the entire U.S. population in 2010 yields an estimated 79 million Americans ages 20 years or older with prediabetes.
There, I corrected one bit of misinformation with valid information.0 -
Okay, but is sugar the cause of diabetes? Or is it genetics and/or weight issues? Check it out.OK, I didn't read all of this. But the bits I did - interesting discussion.
I only started on this website a few days ago. And am also wondering about my sugar intake: Calories in check, as are total carbs, fat, protein. Sugars - always more than "allowed" by the website. Looking through what I eat, most of the sugars come from fruit, no "junk" in there. So - do I now feel riddled by guilt because of this high sugar intake, do I cut down fruit and live on cucumber or tomatoes, or do I simply ignore it, because I like fruit and it really is meant to be good for you - whatever that exactly means?
Unless you have blood sugar control problems (diabetes, hypoglycemia, etc) then there's no reason for you to even track sugar. Go to your diary, click Settings, and track something else like fiber instead.
Don't like 1 in 3 of us have blood sugar issues?
Highly unlikely. If anything, it's more like 5-10%. And the question would be, was the insulin issue caused by genetics or poor nutrition?
According to the NDIC and CDC
11.3% of all people 20 yrs or older, have full blown Diabetes.
In 2005–2008, based on fasting glucose or A1C levels, 35 percent of U.S. adults ages 20 years or older had prediabetes—50 percent of those ages 65 years or older. Applying this percentage to the entire U.S. population in 2010 yields an estimated 79 million Americans ages 20 years or older with prediabetes.
There, I corrected one bit of misinformation with valid information.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Alcohol directly causes mood and mental state changes that can lead to increased consumption. Sugar doesn't do that.
Sugar can absolutely cause a mood change in me. I know exactly what people speak of when they say "a sugar high". Have you really never experienced this?0 -
OK, I didn't read all of this. But the bits I did - interesting discussion.
I only started on this website a few days ago. And am also wondering about my sugar intake: Calories in check, as are total carbs, fat, protein. Sugars - always more than "allowed" by the website. Looking through what I eat, most of the sugars come from fruit, no "junk" in there. So - do I now feel riddled by guilt because of this high sugar intake, do I cut down fruit and live on cucumber or tomatoes, or do I simply ignore it, because I like fruit and it really is meant to be good for you - whatever that exactly means?
Unless you have blood sugar control problems (diabetes, hypoglycemia, etc) then there's no reason for you to even track sugar. Go to your diary, click Settings, and track something else like fiber instead.
Don't like 1 in 3 of us have blood sugar issues?
Highly unlikely. If anything, it's more like 5-10%. And the question would be, was the insulin issue caused by genetics or poor nutrition?
According to the NDIC and CDC
11.3% of all people 20 yrs or older, have full blown Diabetes.
In 2005–2008, based on fasting glucose or A1C levels, 35 percent of U.S. adults ages 20 years or older had prediabetes—50 percent of those ages 65 years or older. Applying this percentage to the entire U.S. population in 2010 yields an estimated 79 million Americans ages 20 years or older with prediabetes.
There, I corrected one bit of misinformation with valid information.
Great you proved my point. I said 5 to 10% as opposed to the 33% the other person suggested. So I was only off by 1%.. not bad.0 -
I believe that ninebuff makes a good point... sugar "addiction" may be disorder related as opposed to physically addicting. With addiction, comes withdraw and other symptoms... something sugar doesnt have. No one ever had cold sweats or paranoia from not eating cookies or poptarts.
I would be interested to see if brain chemistry ties closely to those with anorexia or another binge disorder. Personally, I feel its a more suitable alignment as compared to a drug addict or alcoholic.
Just out of curiosity... how would you define someone who could go for several days without a drink... but once a drop was touched, he couldn't stop until he was passed out? Someone who absolutely MUST abstain from alcohol, or he will drink to the point of blackout / passout, every time. Is this person an alcoholic?
I'd call it binge drinking. I don't think that would be considered an addiction (which implies dependence).
Agreed! I used to be a binge drinker, just as I used to be a binge-eater. I can now drink a beer or three, or have a dessert without going nuts.
I have a younger bro who is an alcoholic. He had to be hospitalized to withdraw. If he went long without a drink, his hands would shake. But his drinking was not at all like mine. He would drink just a little, from morning until night, a nip here and there. I planned my binges and would drink until pass-out or black-out, but then would go a week or more in between. He had to drink every day. (He's been sober, for the second time, for several months now. Crossing fingers that he can stick to it!)0 -
Do you get the same feeling from crack as you do from cocaine?
Crack is cocaine on steroids.
Crack is just free-based cocaine. The only difference is the high comes a bit quicker.0 -
The amount of misinformation and willful ignorance about alcohol addiction in this thread, baffles me to no end.:grumble:
I think it is safe to say that several people here do NOT have a future as substance abuse counselors. Good thing, as they would really suck at it.
It would be nice if someone as educated and sensitive as you could actually add information to the discussion instead of just attacking people.
There HAVE been many scientific studies and valid information regarding addiction given by myself as well as many others on here. Unfortunately, they have been dismissed by some because they go against their PERSONAL beliefs.
This thread was started by a new user who has struggled with addiction her entire life. She came here looking for some advice on how to battle her addiction with sugar-laden processed foods. It quickly turned into a pissing contest debating whether or not there is even a condition of addiction to ANY substance.
This did nothing to help the OP.
She was told basically that she didn't have a sugar addiction and was just lazy and had no self control. Do you not think after 40+ years, that she already KNOWS that she has very little self control in that area?
That was the purpose of her thread, to find other people who struggle with the same thing, and could possibly give her some tips on dealing with her compulsions.
But no, once again, a thread has been hijacked by certain personalities that come into many threads, defending their personal opinions, insisting that everyone must be just like them, and agree with whatever they say as the gospel truth.
The forums are here for users to share information, as well as their OWN personal experiences, that might be helpful to other users. Spending all your energy on trying to convince people that their OWN PERSONAL experiences are WRONG, is just being a jerk.
Of course this does not include telling people that the latest coffee cleanse/raspberry ketone/coffee bean, etc fad, will not work, so don't even bother going there.
Whether some of you want to agree or not, Addiction is a real thing. There are two parts to addiction- physical AND psychological.
Anyone who has gone thru counseling for addiction either in themselves or for a loved one, understands how strong addictions can be. There have been NUMEROUS undisputed studies over the years that have proven the physical and psychological aspects of addiction, to not only drugs and alcohol, but to other substances and behaviors.
If a diagnosis of addiction requires the inability to survive without the substance of choice, then ALL of us are addicted to food, because we would eventually die without it.
I do NOT have a PHD in Psychology, nor am I am professional in the substance abuse field. I have, however spent years researching it, and going thru various counseling and rehabs with my ex, who was and still is an addict.
I have never been an alcoholic. I can go for years without a drink, or I can have one drink and stop.
But this is only MY experience with alcohol. I cannot use my own experience with it to deem that alcohol addiction does not exist.
That would be ridiculous.
In the same sense, I can have ONE cookie, or ONE square of chocolate without it putting into a sugar binge. But other people are different than I. And it would be extremely arrogant for me to insist that they should be able to have a cookie without going overboard.
Someone recognizing that they have a problem with a substance or activity is the first step in getting help for it.
Please stop berating and belittling them for admitting it.
And if you feel the need to report me for 'attacking' you, report away.
And some links for some valid information on various addictions:
Alcohol addiction
http://www.aa.org/?Media=PlayFlash
Drug addiction
http://www.na.org/
Food addictions
http://www.oa.org/
http://foodaddictioninstitute.org/
Sex addiction
http://saa-recovery.org/0 -
As for alcohol lowering inhibitions... this is a valid point.... and obviously doesn't translate to the sugar argument. But.... the fact is, that most adults, can have a couple of drinks, and stop. Some will occasionally get carried away, and drink to excess, but they certainly won't do it every single time. I have always described the feeling with me, that it's like a switch, inside my head, and one beer flips it, and then, it's game on.
I'm not trying to jack this thread.... I'm just trying to present the possibility that there's a similarity between an alcoholic brain, if mine is one.... and someone's brain who has issues with sugar.
Were you ever counselled? I saw you say your doctor didn't really take you seriously, but did you seek help from someone specialising in behavioural medicine?
I ask because quite often binging in that manner is psychiatric. And I'd probably agree it's the same for a lot of people who are overweight and binge on "bad" foods... their "addiction" to this product exists as long as the psychiatric marker (i.e. depression, low self-esteem, etc.) persists.0 -
The CDC says that most who binge drink are not alcoholics. I think a dependence is identified with a preoccupation with the substance, and that someone who occasionally binges when presented with the opportunity - but doesn't necessarily seek out or need such opportunities - necessarily qualifies.
There's a fine line, but I don't think that occasional uncontrollable binge drinking is necessarily an alcohol dependency.
I personally think I was well over the line. I wasn't occasional, by any means, I was alot closer to every day, than not..... I did want to make the distinction that I did not drink EVERY day, and therefore I don't think I could truly claim a physical dependence..... I'd say from late teens to almost 30 years old, probably 4 or 5 days per week, drunk to the point of blackout / passout..... I definitely sought out the opportunities. For one example, if I was working 12 hr day shifts, I'd stop at the bar for a quick one, wind up closing the place down.... get 3 hrs sleep, go back to work, and do the same thing the next day. After graveyard shifts, stop in the parking lot for a beer with the boys, drink until the bar opened, then drink in the bar until passed out, or moved on to another location... always ending in blackout or passout. This was not something I could control, until I quit drinking entirely. I tend to 'assume' that if I had a beer now, I'd be right back at square one. It's not something I wish to test. :bigsmile: Even for science.
There is nothing wrong with abstinence, or with going to AA for help with quitting. You do not need to be physically dependent to benefit from abstinence. :flowerforyou:0 -
Okay, but is sugar the cause of diabetes? Or is it genetics and/or weight issues? Check it out.OK, I didn't read all of this. But the bits I did - interesting discussion.
I only started on this website a few days ago. And am also wondering about my sugar intake: Calories in check, as are total carbs, fat, protein. Sugars - always more than "allowed" by the website. Looking through what I eat, most of the sugars come from fruit, no "junk" in there. So - do I now feel riddled by guilt because of this high sugar intake, do I cut down fruit and live on cucumber or tomatoes, or do I simply ignore it, because I like fruit and it really is meant to be good for you - whatever that exactly means?
Unless you have blood sugar control problems (diabetes, hypoglycemia, etc) then there's no reason for you to even track sugar. Go to your diary, click Settings, and track something else like fiber instead.
Don't like 1 in 3 of us have blood sugar issues?
Highly unlikely. If anything, it's more like 5-10%. And the question would be, was the insulin issue caused by genetics or poor nutrition?
According to the NDIC and CDC
11.3% of all people 20 yrs or older, have full blown Diabetes.
In 2005–2008, based on fasting glucose or A1C levels, 35 percent of U.S. adults ages 20 years or older had prediabetes—50 percent of those ages 65 years or older. Applying this percentage to the entire U.S. population in 2010 yields an estimated 79 million Americans ages 20 years or older with prediabetes.
There, I corrected one bit of misinformation with valid information.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The CAUSE of Diabetes was not in question here. Only the treatment and care for it, as well as the percentage of people who need to watch their sugar intake (total carbs, but especially processed carbs/sugar that dramatically increase sugar levels).
There ARE a large number of people on this site that do have a medical condition that requires that they control their intake.
Since the vast majority of people with Type 2 Diabetes are overweight and even obese, then the percentage of users on this site with sugar issues, might possibly be even higher than the general population.0 -
The amount of misinformation and willful ignorance about alcohol addiction in this thread, baffles me to no end.:grumble:
I think it is safe to say that several people here do NOT have a future as substance abuse counselors. Good thing, as they would really suck at it.
If there us misinformation in the thread then I would suggest you should correct it with valid information. Otherwise, you are just not contributing at all. And this goes for everyone in the thread. In fact I believe this thread has made a ton of progress since the beginning where its developed into real discussion and debate instead of name calling and just saying your wrong. If it bothers you what people say, then I would advise leaving the thread or become more engaged without emotion.
I will note these last few pages have more rhetorical and pondering than overall debate. Heck, its the reason we as mods have let this go on for so long. There was a turning point I noticed where it became a beneficial and constructive. With that said I hope it stays on that track.
Additionally, most of us are probably not phd's, but if you work in the field or have advance experience or knowledge I would hope you provide it
Agreed. Stating an opinion is fine, but any and all factual corrections are always welcome. Personally, I have worked as a volunteer with addicts, but I have only had 3 college credit hours on it, so yeah, hardly an expert. The folks that I have worked with in the past were very appreciative though, and the licensed counselor that had me help out was also very appreciative. :flowerforyou:0 -
...
There are many doctors and researchers who see alcohol and drug abuse as simple coping mechanism for extreme psychological pain and distress instead of the commonly accepted 'have no ability to stop drinking'. It has been shown time and again that they can in fact, stop drinking if the reward is high enough.
...
Yep, yep.
For some, "You're gonna die if you don't stop," is the "reward" they need.0 -
Okay, but is sugar the cause of diabetes? Or is it genetics and/or weight issues? Check it out.OK, I didn't read all of this. But the bits I did - interesting discussion.
I only started on this website a few days ago. And am also wondering about my sugar intake: Calories in check, as are total carbs, fat, protein. Sugars - always more than "allowed" by the website. Looking through what I eat, most of the sugars come from fruit, no "junk" in there. So - do I now feel riddled by guilt because of this high sugar intake, do I cut down fruit and live on cucumber or tomatoes, or do I simply ignore it, because I like fruit and it really is meant to be good for you - whatever that exactly means?
Unless you have blood sugar control problems (diabetes, hypoglycemia, etc) then there's no reason for you to even track sugar. Go to your diary, click Settings, and track something else like fiber instead.
Don't like 1 in 3 of us have blood sugar issues?
Highly unlikely. If anything, it's more like 5-10%. And the question would be, was the insulin issue caused by genetics or poor nutrition?
According to the NDIC and CDC
11.3% of all people 20 yrs or older, have full blown Diabetes.
In 2005–2008, based on fasting glucose or A1C levels, 35 percent of U.S. adults ages 20 years or older had prediabetes—50 percent of those ages 65 years or older. Applying this percentage to the entire U.S. population in 2010 yields an estimated 79 million Americans ages 20 years or older with prediabetes.
There, I corrected one bit of misinformation with valid information.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The CAUSE of Diabetes was not in question here. Only the treatment and care for it, as well as the percentage of people who need to watch their sugar intake (total carbs, but especially processed carbs/sugar that dramatically increase sugar levels).
There ARE a large number of people on this site that do have a medical condition that requires that they control their intake.
Since the vast majority of people with Type 2 Diabetes are overweight and even obese, then the percentage of users on this site with sugar issues, might possibly be even higher than the general population.
"Watching intake" does not necessarily mean abstinence, and certainly has NOTHING to do with "addiction."0 -
What would have impressed me is if she went out in the middle of the night to get a bag of sugar to eat. Hell I've gotten up in the middle of the night with no "treats" in the cupboard and ate some uncooked spaghetti. Why? Because it was there. Doesn't mean I'm "addicted" to spaghetti. It just happen to be the only thing I could eat without cooking at the time.I doubt anything less than a full concession would satisfy certain people.
BTW, my SIL confessed to me once about her sugar 'addiction'. In an attempt to stop her constant binging on chocolate, cookies, cakes, etc, she had stopped bringing them into the house. One night she couldn't sleep and got up and went to the pantry, looking for ANYTHING sweet. She found a half-used old bag of brown sugar in the far back corner, that was so old it had turned into a solid rock. She put the rock in a bowl, put some butter on top to help soften it, then microwaved it til it was melted. Stirred it up and ate the whole bowl with a spoon.
Yeah, that is pretty messed up.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
^^ This
I have sat up texting folks and sending both pleading and *rude/nasty* IMs on MySpace (yep, this was many years ago) trying to obtain my favorite "poison" that's not available in store without a prescription. Also, once upon a time, went driving through neighborhoods and knocking on doors in the middle of the night.
(Thank God those days are behind me!)0 -
OK, I didn't read all of this. But the bits I did - interesting discussion.
I only started on this website a few days ago. And am also wondering about my sugar intake: Calories in check, as are total carbs, fat, protein. Sugars - always more than "allowed" by the website. Looking through what I eat, most of the sugars come from fruit, no "junk" in there. So - do I now feel riddled by guilt because of this high sugar intake, do I cut down fruit and live on cucumber or tomatoes, or do I simply ignore it, because I like fruit and it really is meant to be good for you - whatever that exactly means?
Unless you have blood sugar control problems (diabetes, hypoglycemia, etc) then there's no reason for you to even track sugar. Go to your diary, click Settings, and track something else like fiber instead.
Don't like 1 in 3 of us have blood sugar issues?
Highly unlikely. If anything, it's more like 5-10%. And the question would be, was the insulin issue caused by genetics or poor nutrition?
According to the NDIC and CDC
11.3% of all people 20 yrs or older, have full blown Diabetes.
In 2005–2008, based on fasting glucose or A1C levels, 35 percent of U.S. adults ages 20 years or older had prediabetes—50 percent of those ages 65 years or older. Applying this percentage to the entire U.S. population in 2010 yields an estimated 79 million Americans ages 20 years or older with prediabetes.
There, I corrected one bit of misinformation with valid information.
Great you proved my point. I said 5 to 10% as opposed to the 33% the other person suggested. So I was only off by 1%.. not bad.
Did you miss the 35% who had prediabetes? Prediabetes is when you are insulin resistant and very close to becoming insulin dependent. The dietary recommendations for those patients is to lower carbs and limit processed sugars, (along with losing weight), to prevent fullblown diabetes.
So the statement by one user that 1 in 3 people on here have issues with sugar, is correct. and actually 2% lower than actual numbers.0 -
Prediabetes is when you are insulin resistant
You sure?0
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