Paleo lifestyle... Have you tried it? How did you feel?
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Well one site says it is an ingredient...I guess there's too many and people get confused lol. But that's beyond the point. I do not follow paleo but I originally said the positive about it was that it cuts out a lot of the processed unhealthy foods. And it more or less does. By eating primarily meats, veggies, fruits, and nuts your not eating Frankenfoods like Twinkies. And come on are we seriously going to argue that a Twinkie is highly nutritious right up there with broccoli? Lol
Well thanks to the internet you can look up practically anything but come on who walks around knowing what exactly polysorbate60 is? Lol
Good but do you know what they are?
Well you can list and pronounce all of the ingredients that go into cooking a rib eye steak, right? Meat, spices, maybe butter and oil...Versus say a Twinkie? LolWhat I like about paleo--it advocates eating whole foods that don't come with a long list of unpronounceable ingredieuhhnts. So naturally your eliminating a lot of processed junk from your diet. I think that's where a whole lot of the benefits come from. But yeah I don't see myself cutting out things I love like rice, oats, pasta and bread forever. And I don't feel awful eating them so it wouldn't be sustainable for me to eat this way.
the implication being that all processed foods are bad. Technically a ribeye is processed, is that bad for you?
I checked and yeah, I can in fact pronounce everything in a twinkie.
Yes, actually. It's not a complicated list.
http://www.today.com/id/38872091/ns/today-today_food/t/ingredients-twinkie-eaters-ingest/#.UuWfpRB6eUk
Which ones of these do you not know/aren't able to figure out the purpose of via it's name?
I just want to note that there is no polysorbate60 in twinkies.
Carry on.
Who ever claimed that trinkies are as nutrient dense as broccoli? No one?
I don't need all of my food to be as nutrient dense as broccoli. What purpose would that serve? Do I get extra special bonus weight loss points if all of my food is nutrient dense? I eat my veg, I eat my fruit, I eat my meat, and I can eat my twinkies. One doesn't some how detract from the other.
Not nuts though. I hate nuts.0 -
I totally agree with 80/20 too lol. Your dinner sounds absolutely delicious by the way!
Yes we more or less process and manipulate most foods when we preserve, cook, grill, fry and dolly them up with spices or whatever unless your on a 100% raw diet. So what then? I would be just as healthy eating a well balanced diet full of twinkies, icecream, pizza, bacon and burgers as one with lean mean meats, veggies, fruits, nut and possibly whole grains that are closer to their natural state? Lol
Well you can list and pronounce all of the ingredients that go into cooking a rib eye steak, right? Meat, spices, maybe butter and oil...Versus say a Twinkie? LolWhat I like about paleo--it advocates eating whole foods that don't come with a long list of unpronounceable ingredients. So naturally your eliminating a lot of processed junk from your diet. I think that's where a whole lot of the benefits come from. But yeah I don't see myself cutting out things I love like rice, oats, pasta and bread forever. And I don't feel awful eating them so it wouldn't be sustainable for me to eat this way.
the implication being that all processed foods are bad. Technically a ribeye is processed, is that bad for you?
If I do the cooking then yes….if Vinnie in the kitchen at so and so restaurant is doing the cooking then no….I also have no idea how they processed said ribeye when they butchered the cow and then packaged the meat either...
well, I go more 80/20…80% healthy and 20% whatever I want. I cook my own food, but do not fret over "processed" all that much. I find that hitting macros, eating in deficit, and lifting heavy works well for me and I still get to eat some of the foods that I like.
Like tonight, I am going to have Linguine with clams and red sauce and a little bit of bread with that..and then I will have a serving of ice cream for dessert. I will be at about 2000 cals for the day which is a deficit for me…I will be a little over on carbs for the day but i will not fret it ..for the week I have hit my macros perfectly….
^ this just makes more sense to me then restricting a food group...
oh it was delicious…!!!0 -
^^^^^^^^^^^all of the above for me too. I know I will have to log the closer I get to goal, but so far just paleo lifestyle and removed wheat. I do track my workouts. I feel so much better and like the above poster, I dont crave the way I did all my life. I love it.Started it around, idk, July or so. Dropped a lot of weight easily, have been maintaining (read: eating as much as I want and not logging anything) and working on building muscle lately.
Basically... I flipping love it. I have NEVER been able to lose weight easily. before, it was an uphill battle and I found myself thinking 'well... maybe it won't be so bad being a size 14, i could just buy some new clothes that will fit me'.
Now I'm having to buy new clothes in size 10 because everything is too big. (partially due to weight loss, partially body recomp)
And I have discovered through this that I'm really sensitive to gluten, wheat and dairy. I found out that my mum had allergy tests done when she was about 20yo and was allergic to all of the above; but never did anything about it. I would never have known if I hadn't tried paleo and had such fantastic results.
So at the moment, I'm living paleo lifestyle effortlessly. If I eat out at a restaurant I get a bigass steak. I never feel the urge to cheat and eat pastries or bread or milkshakes. I miss none of it.0 -
Simply because it's not necessary to be so strict with your diet, doesn't mean that you shouldn't be strict with your diet. Some people do well with structure, while others do well with complete freedom. Of course you don't have to give up bread to lose weight, but some people find it much easier to lose weight when they do give up bread. What's unnecessary is people pointing out "but you could do IIFYM!" in every thread that's not about IIFYM.
This x 1000 :flowerforyou:0 -
Jeez, now I'm thinking maybe I ought to try out Paleo for a week, or even primal, just to see how it goes.
I've done a few days so far of the Engine 2 Diet, a 'plant strong' diet. It's practically vegan with no oil, and I gotta admit, it's tough as heck when you're a huge foodie. I'm already really missing chicken, fish, red meat, and my greek yogurt... :grumble: If anything, it's been a reset to help me incorporate more fruits and vegetables back into my diet. As silly as it sounds I feel empty, like something is missing physically, if I haven't had any meat or animal protein. I might have a problem. :laugh:0 -
Just another fad…. *sigh* I mean no legumes? Seriously?0
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Just another fad…. *sigh* I mean no legumes? Seriously?
The diet has a few main points: reducing sugar (good!), reducing carbohydrates (good, if you find success with low carb), increasing nutrient dense foods (good!), and finally, to address your concerns: reducing possible sources of digestive issues and inflammation.
Dairy & legumes fall in a category in which you cut them out for some time before trying them again. If you have no ill effects, cool. If you find either one leaves you bloated or with some other digestive upset, then cut them out. The paleo diet seems incredibly strict, and in some ways it is, but it is not completely inflexible.
Another knock on beans is that while they seem healthy, just eating more meat + vegetable is normally a more nutritionally appealing option.Jeez, now I'm thinking maybe I ought to try out Paleo for a week, or even primal, just to see how it goes.
I've done a few days so far of the Engine 2 Diet, a 'plant strong' diet. It's practically vegan with no oil, and I gotta admit, it's tough as heck when you're a huge foodie. I'm already really missing chicken, fish, red meat, and my greek yogurt... grumble If anything, it's been a reset to help me incorporate more fruits and vegetables back into my diet. As silly as it sounds I feel empty, like something is missing physically, if I haven't had any meat or animal protein. I might have a problem. laugh
I wouldn't do Paleo for just a week. Commit to it for a month if you want to really feel a change. Allow yourself a day where you can have non-Paleo foods for a couple meals to keep yourself sane during that first month.0 -
I think Paleo is a label people are starting to use in a attempt to make themselves and others think they eat a much "healthier" diet than they actually do and that not that many people actually eat Paleo. This observation is solely based on the number of people on my FB newsfeed talking about how awesome they feel now that they eat Paleo, and then checking in two hours later from the bar with a picture of a table full of pub fare, toasting the camera with their alcohol.
The whole "more paleo than thou" game is really stupid. Just eat what you feel is a healthy, sustainable diet for you, and stop trying to police who is or is not allowed to call their diet "paleo" because if you're not catching your own food using stone age weapons and preparing it with stone age tools, it's not paleo and if you're eating food that's the product of farming and/or selective breeding, it's not paleo. The diet that gets touted on the internet as "paleo" isn't even close to any actual paleolithic diets. The pseudo-paleo diet of internet gurus may be reasonably healthy in that it doesn't lack any important nutrients, but it's not actually paleo. And just because you have friends who occasionally eat pub food while otherwise following the pseudo-paleo diet, does not mean that their diet is less healthy than yours.
I didn't say anything about the health of my diet, or anyone else's diet, nor do I eat paleo or any other kind of "label" diet. I'm all for people finding a healthy, sustainable diet that works for them. Ok, I'm lying, I really don't give a toss what people eat, I hope they eat healthy but if they eat cupcakes all day it really has no bearing on my life.
I'm just tired people pretending to be part of whichever revolutionary new eating plan is popular at the moment, lecturing people about how much healthier they are than other people and how certain foods are "bad" or "unhealthy," then finding ways to justify eating "bad" foods when it's something they like. So I guess you would say I'm tired of the "more healthy than thou" nonsense that seems to come with these "label" diets.
Okay, I took your post the wrong way.... I agree with your 2nd paragraph above, I feel the same way... your post came across as telling people they're not allowed to call themselves paleo if they eat pub food/drink alcohol.0 -
Just another fad…. *sigh* I mean no legumes? Seriously?
The diet has a few main points: reducing sugar (good!), reducing carbohydrates (good, if you find success with low carb), increasing nutrient dense foods (good!), and finally, to address your concerns: reducing possible sources of digestive issues and inflammation.
Dairy & legumes fall in a category in which you cut them out for some time before trying them again. If you have no ill effects, cool. If you find either one leaves you bloated or with some other digestive upset, then cut them out. The paleo diet seems incredibly strict, and in some ways it is, but it is not completely inflexible.
Another knock on beans is that while they seem healthy, just eating more meat + vegetable is normally a more nutritionally appealing option.Jeez, now I'm thinking maybe I ought to try out Paleo for a week, or even primal, just to see how it goes.
I've done a few days so far of the Engine 2 Diet, a 'plant strong' diet. It's practically vegan with no oil, and I gotta admit, it's tough as heck when you're a huge foodie. I'm already really missing chicken, fish, red meat, and my greek yogurt... grumble If anything, it's been a reset to help me incorporate more fruits and vegetables back into my diet. As silly as it sounds I feel empty, like something is missing physically, if I haven't had any meat or animal protein. I might have a problem. laugh
I wouldn't do Paleo for just a week. Commit to it for a month if you want to really feel a change. Allow yourself a day where you can have non-Paleo foods for a couple meals to keep yourself sane during that first month.
The Paleo lifestyle is NOT a low carb lifestyle................don't confuse the two.
Most people that I know that follow the Paleo lifestyle eat a LOT of carbs.
The Paleo lifestyle is a template for getting the body back to better health through whole foods eating by ditching the processed, packaged crap like food substances.
Someone quoted this on Facebook a while back in a group that I am part of and this sticks with me as we are all individuals. So what I eat for my health and well being may not be what the next person needs to eat or not eat.
Paleo "rules" are written in vegetable juice, not stone. Customize, experiment, discover, be yourself.0 -
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I tried it. I stuck with it for about 4 months, only making exceptions for when I went out to eat at restaurants (which is very rare for me). I saw amazing results in terms the way my body reacted and energy levels shot up. Plus my grocery bills went down. I didn't stick with it because I ended up in the hospital due to reasons unrelated where I was stuck eating hospital food for days and having other people cook for me when I eventually got out, and I just haven't been able to get back on since. Of course I also haven't made a serious effort to...0
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I was on strict Paleo from in the beginning of 2012 for 3 months. Prior to Paleo I was "addicted" to bread and grains. When I started on Paleo the 1st one week felt weak, sick, nauseating, drained you name it. And then I lost 10 pounds the 1st one month. My diet was on high protein and veggies.
At the end of 3 months coincidentally I was up for my blood work and found I have Cholesterol and was put on smaller dose (inspite of the fact that I Crossfit and was training for Half Marathon).
Since then I have modified my diet such that I eat everything minus bread. I gave up vodka and switched to red wine. And my diet includes lentils and dairy products that aren't allowed in Paleo.
I'm off Cholesterol medication since diet is not high on protein.
Hope this helps you.0 -
*bump in*0
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I've always said that if they didn't name this diet or "lifestyle", "Paleo", we wouldn't be having this conversation. I wish they would have simply called it, "the whole foods diet" or something like that. It would be easier to stomach. The term, "Paleo" is stupid for so many reasons.
But, the gist of the diet is legit, eating whole, unprocessed foods, as much as possible.
Getting into eliminating corn and potatoes and all that is so silly though. And, trying to postulate what cave people ate in the paleothithic era, and even saying that they were healthier than us. Lol. It's all so stupid.
Agreed. I love eating this way (with a few modifications) but I hate labels. Paleo is a pretty stupid way to describe it. I seriously doubt Paleolithic man (if there was such a thing) ate bacon and chicken eggs like I do every morning. And I doubt he would turn down a bag of Doritos if they were offered to him.
But sometimes using labels makes things easier. For example, I homeschool my kids but I hate that term. My kids' education bears absolutely no resemblance to "school", and not all of it takes place at "home". But it's so much easier to say "I homeschool" because that is a widely understood term. (Though sometimes when people ask what grade my kids are in, for fun I like to simply state "Oh they don't go to school" and leave it at that; it always results in a blank stare and they never ask any follow-up questions.)0 -
One of the biggest issues with paleo besides the fact it is so big on demonizing food and is cult like (god the paleo police are atrocious)... is that people don't learn what is working and why.
They think the fact that whole foods and clean grass feed meat are doing it for them.
And it's not- it's a calorie deficit. Sure they feel better because they are probably eating more veggies and fat and less sugar- and creating a more well balanced diet to help you function- but the reality is- the weight loss isn't from fancy food- it's from a calorie deficit.
Those are my two big beefs about it (and no- not grass feed beefs- regular plain old Shop Rite beefs)
The majority of people that start the journey of the Paleo or whole foods lifestyle is because it is mostly anti-inflammatory by nature of what your eating.
Most of us are not looking for weight loss, but a means to heal our bodies from chronic illnesses without the use of heavy duty pharmaceuticals that cause more harm than good in the long term.
2 years and I am still healing my adrenals, hormone issues and such - so most times my weight loss is very slow or nothing at all. Until my body reaches homeostasis again, I will not experience weightloss no matter how much or how little I eat.
I have to heal the damage that has been done.
The weight loss is merely an added benefit.
I'm sorry... but no, not at all. The MAJORITY of people start it because they think it's a golden ticket to rapid fat loss. Your particular issues, if true, are not indicative of the whole "paleo population".0 -
Going Paleo has been the best decision I've ever made. I made the switch in August of last year and will never look back. I'm dropping weight consistently, never feel deprived with my food options, and I've never felt better mentally or physically as I do right now.
congrats on finding a way to create a calorie deficit….
You don't feels deprived but are eliminating whole food groups..? Interesting...
I do a Primal diet 90% of the time. I've eliminated entire food groups and I don't feel deprived either. Granted, if I really, really, really want something I'll have it. Luckily, eliminating those foods has kept me from craving them.
It is a very easy way to create a calorie deficit. A 300 calorie croissant isn't nearly as filling as 300 calories worth of chicken and veggies. I get to eat way more food by skipping the grains (which tend to just make me tired anyway). Win!
This is all coming from a former carb queen, who 1 year ago, you would have had to pry my bagel from my cold, dead hands. I went Primal in May of 2013. Haven't considered reverting.0 -
i've never really done paleo, but i've done my damndest to stick to single ingredient foods and avoid jars, cans, wrappers of any kind.
From a weight loss persepective, it produced good short term results. It was great as long as i could hold off from going crazy on chocolate lol. there was an inevitable peanut butter binge (the only thing remotely snack or candy like i keep in the house) and i'd smear 1000 cals on a piece of bread with out being fully cognisant of it. Although it may have given me marginally quicker fat loss.
The real difference was in my digestion. Overall, i'm much happier getting my ice cream or candy bar (or both) daily and still reaching my calorie and protien goals and dealing with some intestinal distress then i was fending off cravings but with a happier tummy.
I can totally see that some would turn to this diet because of digestive/health/comfort reasons.0 -
One of the biggest issues with paleo besides the fact it is so big on demonizing food and is cult like (god the paleo police are atrocious)... is that people don't learn what is working and why.
They think the fact that whole foods and clean grass feed meat are doing it for them.
And it's not- it's a calorie deficit. Sure they feel better because they are probably eating more veggies and fat and less sugar- and creating a more well balanced diet to help you function- but the reality is- the weight loss isn't from fancy food- it's from a calorie deficit.
Those are my two big beefs about it (and no- not grass feed beefs- regular plain old Shop Rite beefs)
The majority of people that start the journey of the Paleo or whole foods lifestyle is because it is mostly anti-inflammatory by nature of what your eating.
Most of us are not looking for weight loss, but a means to heal our bodies from chronic illnesses without the use of heavy duty pharmaceuticals that cause more harm than good in the long term.
2 years and I am still healing my adrenals, hormone issues and such - so most times my weight loss is very slow or nothing at all. Until my body reaches homeostasis again, I will not experience weightloss no matter how much or how little I eat.
I have to heal the damage that has been done.
The weight loss is merely an added benefit.
I'm sorry... but no, not at all. The MAJORITY of people start it because they think it's a golden ticket to rapid fat loss. Your particular issues, if true, are not indicative of the whole "paleo population".
I beg to differ. I too started for health related reasons and the majority of the people that I have met (both on the web and IRL) also tried it as a means to get their nagging health issues under control.0 -
It was OK for a while, but I got tired of eating mostly acorns and tubers and running around in a loin cloth with crazy hair.0
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One of the biggest issues with paleo besides the fact it is so big on demonizing food and is cult like (god the paleo police are atrocious)... is that people don't learn what is working and why.
They think the fact that whole foods and clean grass feed meat are doing it for them.
And it's not- it's a calorie deficit. Sure they feel better because they are probably eating more veggies and fat and less sugar- and creating a more well balanced diet to help you function- but the reality is- the weight loss isn't from fancy food- it's from a calorie deficit.
Those are my two big beefs about it (and no- not grass feed beefs- regular plain old Shop Rite beefs)
The majority of people that start the journey of the Paleo or whole foods lifestyle is because it is mostly anti-inflammatory by nature of what your eating.
Most of us are not looking for weight loss, but a means to heal our bodies from chronic illnesses without the use of heavy duty pharmaceuticals that cause more harm than good in the long term.
2 years and I am still healing my adrenals, hormone issues and such - so most times my weight loss is very slow or nothing at all. Until my body reaches homeostasis again, I will not experience weightloss no matter how much or how little I eat.
I have to heal the damage that has been done.
The weight loss is merely an added benefit.
I'm sorry... but no, not at all. The MAJORITY of people start it because they think it's a golden ticket to rapid fat loss. Your particular issues, if true, are not indicative of the whole "paleo population".
I beg to differ. I too started for health related reasons and the majority of the people that I have met (both on the web and IRL) also tried it as a means to get their nagging health issues under control.
In fact, I've found that the majority of those who try paleo simply to lose weight, while they find other benefits (like increased energy, better sleep, clearer skin, better digestion...etc), they often still end up going right back to the way they ate before. Those people would probably do better with IIFYM, since weight loss is their only concern and they are happy to trade their energy/sleep/clear skin for pizza, bagels & twinkies. In the end, you gotta do what makes you happy, right?0 -
I personally haven't tried it but my housemate lives by it,and he is the epitome of fitness and health. He eats 3500 calories a day, enjoys his food greatly, and exercises every day (crossfit usually). He never gets ill, has perfect digestion, and is extremely toned and muscular. He loves it, and he is a great advertisement for it!0
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I dabbled as an experiment.
I liked it- but it wasn't sustainable- which is an issue.
*This!!!!!*
While I like the idea of how much weight I would be losing by following this diet, between the cost and the restrictiveness, I found it unsustainable for me. I also didn't like the idea of cutting out entire food groups simply for the sake of dieting; I already cut dairy out of my diet because of an allergy, but I felt that this was different. The good part about paleo is that it causes you to cut out processed junk, which IS a good thing, but I don't think that you also have to get rid of things that are part of a balanced, healthy diet, like whole grains, legumes, etc. It just wasn't something that I could see myself doing, long-term, but I applaud those people who find that this diet works for them and think that they should keep up the good work.
Really, it's all about finding a diet that is healthy, makes you happy, and that you can sustain for yourself.0 -
The best I ever felt was when I ate this way!!! I had energy and felt like a million bucks! I also weighed a reasonable amount (60 pounds lighter) this was years ago and I didn't know then it had a name, I just ate lots of meat, healthy fats, and tons of veges! I got fat OVER eating. I never had the urge to binge while I ate Paleo but when I tried to add processed foods in my cravings went through the roof and my weight soon followed! I am back to trying to follow this way of eating because I feel better. I have also seen my grocery bill go down, I don't buy much organic and not buying junk in large quantities keeps the cost down. This is my experience!0
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In fact, I've found that the majority of those who try paleo simply to lose weight, while they find other benefits (like increased energy, better sleep, clearer skin, better digestion...etc), they often still end up going right back to the way they ate before. Those people would probably do better with IIFYM, since weight loss is their only concern and they are happy to trade their energy/sleep/clear skin for pizza, bagels & twinkies. In the end, you gotta do what makes you happy, right?
lol i basically agree with this. most people that stick with it are probably not doing so because of weight loss. although on the same token, i assume most in the IIFYM pool don't experience the symptoms you list in a dramatic way.0 -
I dabbled as an experiment.
I liked it- but it wasn't sustainable- which is an issue.
this was my expience. I really liked that apples started tasting like candy. but they weren't candy, and there in lies my issue lol0 -
Tried Paleo and actually liked it. Have a lot more energy, more stable blood sugar level throughout the day. I sleep better too. After a while I tried stuff that works for me, so I'll still eat Greek yoghurt and I do eat rice, quinoa or oatmeal on occasion.
I did experience that eating bread, pasta and potatoes gives me a much more bloated feeling so I'm still avoiding those. Avoiding isn't the right word though, since I absolutely don't miss eating it!0 -
Those people would probably do better with IIFYM, since weight loss is their only concern and they are happy to trade their energy/sleep/clear skin for pizza, bagels & twinkies. In the end, you gotta do what makes you happy, right?
You are so right, I have completely turned my health around and have gotten off all prescription meds, I have loads of energy, sleep like a baby and don't even have to wear makeup because I have no blemishes on my skin.
oh wait... I DID ALL THAT WITH IIFYM.
You clearly don't know much about IIFYM or the reasons people do it. Your statement is idiotic...0 -
Its true that improving these symptoms could come from losing weight/being in better shape.
a more compleing argument would be one where someone was in good shape already and the only change was the diet. perhaps they have already weighted in.0 -
One of the biggest issues with paleo besides the fact it is so big on demonizing food and is cult like (god the paleo police are atrocious)... is that people don't learn what is working and why.
They think the fact that whole foods and clean grass feed meat are doing it for them.
And it's not- it's a calorie deficit. Sure they feel better because they are probably eating more veggies and fat and less sugar- and creating a more well balanced diet to help you function- but the reality is- the weight loss isn't from fancy food- it's from a calorie deficit.
Those are my two big beefs about it (and no- not grass feed beefs- regular plain old Shop Rite beefs)
The majority of people that start the journey of the Paleo or whole foods lifestyle is because it is mostly anti-inflammatory by nature of what your eating.
Most of us are not looking for weight loss, but a means to heal our bodies from chronic illnesses without the use of heavy duty pharmaceuticals that cause more harm than good in the long term.
2 years and I am still healing my adrenals, hormone issues and such - so most times my weight loss is very slow or nothing at all. Until my body reaches homeostasis again, I will not experience weightloss no matter how much or how little I eat.
I have to heal the damage that has been done.
The weight loss is merely an added benefit.
I'm sorry... but no, not at all. The MAJORITY of people start it because they think it's a golden ticket to rapid fat loss. Your particular issues, if true, are not indicative of the whole "paleo population".
Maybe what you see on this website............
But this website does not encompass the thousands of people that belong to the IPMG group on Facebook and about 2/3 - 3/4 of the people that have adopted this lifestyle are not doing it for the weight loss. It is for healing from chronic illnesses.
Compared to the groups I belong to elsewhere, MFP looks like there are no Paleo lifestyle people here at all because it is so tiny of a fraction.0 -
Those people would probably do better with IIFYM, since weight loss is their only concern and they are happy to trade their energy/sleep/clear skin for pizza, bagels & twinkies. In the end, you gotta do what makes you happy, right?
You are so right, I have completely turned my health around and have gotten off all prescription meds, I have loads of energy, sleep like a baby and don't even have to wear makeup because I have no blemishes on my skin.
oh wait... I DID ALL THAT WITH IIFYM.
You clearly don't know much about IIFYM or the reasons people do it. Your statement is idiotic...
All the people that come out of the woodwork to talk about IIFYM on paleo threads, and I've never seen a single one talk about anything other than weightloss. Of course, I haven't read every post on every paleo thread either...
ETA: Congrats on finding what works for YOU!0
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