Need Help from Experienced Lifters (men or women)
JustinAnimal
Posts: 1,335 Member
I used to be a "fit" guy. When I was married in June of last year, I weighed 180 lbs (my lowest since high school). I am 30.
Back then, when I wanted to lose weight, I simply cut calories. I got fast results. Everyone told me I was losing muscle mass, but at least I could "cheat" and eat out once in a while, drink quite a bit (a favorite pastime of mine), and have some fun.
I let myself go between Halloween and New Year's. Like 30 lbs. I weigh 208 right now. Since the holidays, my wife received New Rules of Lifting for Women (I know... yuk it up...) and I'm doing the nutrition / exercise regimen with her. This means fairly balanced macros (40% carbs / 30% fat / 30% protein) and fairly good strength training. About half of my "off" days, I make sure to do some interval style cardio (on bike or elliptical).
The answer to my question might be simple. We started on January 2nd and it's not even been a month. But I'm getting pretty damn frustrated. I feel a bit stronger, but I don't look ANY better. Clothes aren't fitting better, I can't wear those wedding slacks, even my old jeans are a squeeze. I like that I'm getting stronger, but my weight isn't changing AT ALL. In fact, I've gained 2 lbs sine the dust settled after the holidays. I'm eating the prescribed number of calories for my weight and BMI (approx. 2150 / day; additional 250 cals on strength training days; I eat back calories I burn for interval workouts). I know I shouldn't judge by the scale, but, like I said, I don't look any better or notice any change in clothing size.
So, there you go, that's all the info I can muster. I'm getting pissed. Don't know if I should go back to just cutting calories until I'm the size / appearance I want to be and THEN try to add muscle and eat more... or do I stick it out doing it the "right way." In my heart, I believe cutting calories is unhealthy. I'm also a bit impatient.
What do you think? Is it to soon to switch methods? Am I doing it wrong? Not lifting enough (I know I'm doing the women's workouts, which target multiple muscle groups, but I'm doing as much weight as I can)? Any insight, especially from men or women who follow Schuyler or have done the New Rules thing, would be appreciated.
Back then, when I wanted to lose weight, I simply cut calories. I got fast results. Everyone told me I was losing muscle mass, but at least I could "cheat" and eat out once in a while, drink quite a bit (a favorite pastime of mine), and have some fun.
I let myself go between Halloween and New Year's. Like 30 lbs. I weigh 208 right now. Since the holidays, my wife received New Rules of Lifting for Women (I know... yuk it up...) and I'm doing the nutrition / exercise regimen with her. This means fairly balanced macros (40% carbs / 30% fat / 30% protein) and fairly good strength training. About half of my "off" days, I make sure to do some interval style cardio (on bike or elliptical).
The answer to my question might be simple. We started on January 2nd and it's not even been a month. But I'm getting pretty damn frustrated. I feel a bit stronger, but I don't look ANY better. Clothes aren't fitting better, I can't wear those wedding slacks, even my old jeans are a squeeze. I like that I'm getting stronger, but my weight isn't changing AT ALL. In fact, I've gained 2 lbs sine the dust settled after the holidays. I'm eating the prescribed number of calories for my weight and BMI (approx. 2150 / day; additional 250 cals on strength training days; I eat back calories I burn for interval workouts). I know I shouldn't judge by the scale, but, like I said, I don't look any better or notice any change in clothing size.
So, there you go, that's all the info I can muster. I'm getting pissed. Don't know if I should go back to just cutting calories until I'm the size / appearance I want to be and THEN try to add muscle and eat more... or do I stick it out doing it the "right way." In my heart, I believe cutting calories is unhealthy. I'm also a bit impatient.
What do you think? Is it to soon to switch methods? Am I doing it wrong? Not lifting enough (I know I'm doing the women's workouts, which target multiple muscle groups, but I'm doing as much weight as I can)? Any insight, especially from men or women who follow Schuyler or have done the New Rules thing, would be appreciated.
0
Replies
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I have a few questions:
1. Why would someone laugh at your wife starting to lift? NROLFW is a great program. Anyway...
2. Do you weigh and measure all of your food?
3. How are you figuring out your burn from your workouts? HRM, machine, or mfp?
4. What does your activity level look like beyond your workouts?
5. How much were you eating before? Is this a 10% reduction? 20? About the same?
6. Do you know your BMR and TDEE numbers? How much body fat do you have?
7. Were you doing any exercise at all before 3 weeks ago? Particularly lifting? I gained 5lbs in water/glycogen when I started lifting.
8. Have your sodium or carb levels increased or decreased from before?
9. Are you constipated or bloated?
10. Did you take measurements before you started?
Here are some links that will help you make sure that your calorie goals are appropriate. I'm not sure how NR sets them up.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/974888-in-place-of-a-road-map-2k13
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1080242-a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants?hl=guide+to+sexy+pants
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/819055-setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets0 -
Lilawolf pretty much covered all I was going to add - one other thing though, are the macros splits right for you? Did you figure out your body type? Ecto/Meso and what ahve you? If not I'd suggest looking into that, Bodybuilding.com I found had a good one, from there work witht he macro ratios suggested - obviously it won't be exact for you but play around witht hose numbers and see what works and what doesn't for you0
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I have a few questions:
1. Why would someone laugh at your wife starting to lift? NROLFW is a great program. Anyway...
2. Do you weigh and measure all of your food?
3. How are you figuring out your burn from your workouts? HRM, machine, or mfp?
4. What does your activity level look like beyond your workouts?
5. How much were you eating before? Is this a 10% reduction? 20? About the same?
6. Do you know your BMR and TDEE numbers? How much body fat do you have?
7. Were you doing any exercise at all before 3 weeks ago? Particularly lifting? I gained 5lbs in water/glycogen when I started lifting.
8. Have your sodium or carb levels increased or decreased from before?
9. Are you constipated or bloated?
10. Did you take measurements before you started?
Here are some links that will help you make sure that your calorie goals are appropriate. I'm not sure how NR sets them up.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/974888-in-place-of-a-road-map-2k13
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1080242-a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants?hl=guide+to+sexy+pants
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/819055-setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets
1. I didn't expect anyone to laugh at my wife for lifting. The book is "for Women." I expected to be laughed at for following the book for women, myself being male.
2. I measure my food; I do not weigh it.
3. The book suggests a flat increase in caloric intake on workout days. 250 calories, at least, if I remember right. I figure burn from cardio or my past workouts (not new rules workouts) by doing similar workouts to my wife and using her numbers (even though she says I should do more, b/c I weigh more and am male, but I just use hers b/c I thought eating a little less wouldn't hurt; again, this was in the past; she used a HRM)
4. My activity level outside of workouts isn't too intense. I am a teacher, so on my feet all day. I'm also a homeowner, so some heavy cleaning, yardwork, something usually keeps me fairly busy. I also wake up quite early, especially on workout days.
5. BEFORE new rules, I was eating very LOW. I used to keep myself to 1400 calories. So this is a HUGE increase for me.
6. I have my BMR written down somewhere. I believe I used it to figure out how much I should be eating. I don't know what TDEE is and haven't researched it. I am 27% body fat, according to our electronic scale (well, 26.9% after this month's work).
7. Before the holidays, we lifted and did cardio quite regularly. However, I was not lifting on a regular basis, like I am now (not on a program). I lifted three times a week, but the workouts were pretty random, not planned like new rules.
8. My sodium and carb levels have increased compared to when I was cutting calories, but decreased since the time between Halloween and New Year's Day.
9. No constipation or bloating. However, my stomach looks and feels distended when I'm not sucking in my gut. I mean, my stomach feels terribly huge and looks awful, hence my frustration.
10. Yes, I took measurements right at the beginning of this workout. We're doing update measurements tomorrow. I just thought I would have noticed somewhat, as far as clothes fitting better.
I appreciate the links and will check them out ASAP. I will also research TDEE.
My frustration is more over improving WHAT I eat and how often I work out so much, yet seeing very little change in my body shape. Thanks again for your thoughtful response.0 -
What kind of weight are you using? Frankly you might just not be lifting heavy enough to see much change. I don't love NROLFW, I know it is highly recommended but frankly it's not going to be nearly as effective as a simple linear progression such as Starting Strength or Stronglifts 5x5. I saw visible progress about a month or two into Starting Strength; I started out quite over-fat, and it took a little while to see the changes, but I had added close to 100 pounds to my squat in that time so I even when I wasn't seeing progress I was still motivated.
The fact that you're measuring your food rather than weighing, and guessing at your calories burned may be a big part of your problem. More than likely, you're eating more than you think and burning less than you think, resulting in a lack of calorie deficit. Check your measurements first, but if there's no change, decrease your calorie intake by a small amount, maybe 100 calories. Stay at that for another few weeks, and check again for progress. Calorie calculators are just a guide, your personal requirements may well vary and it's up to you to experiment and figure them out. If you aren't losing weight you need to eat less; it doesn't need to be more complicated than that.0 -
The links provided are good, definitely check them out. I think you need to be more patient, it's only been....22 days? You may just need to give it more time.0
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I used to be a "fit" guy. When I was married in June of last year, I weighed 180 lbs (my lowest since high school). I am 30.
Back then, when I wanted to lose weight, I simply cut calories. I got fast results. Everyone told me I was losing muscle mass, but at least I could "cheat" and eat out once in a while, drink quite a bit (a favorite pastime of mine), and have some fun.
I let myself go between Halloween and New Year's. Like 30 lbs. I weigh 208 right now. Since the holidays, my wife received New Rules of Lifting for Women (I know... yuk it up...) and I'm doing the nutrition / exercise regimen with her. This means fairly balanced macros (40% carbs / 30% fat / 30% protein) and fairly good strength training. About half of my "off" days, I make sure to do some interval style cardio (on bike or elliptical).
The answer to my question might be simple. We started on January 2nd and it's not even been a month. But I'm getting pretty damn frustrated. I feel a bit stronger, but I don't look ANY better. Clothes aren't fitting better, I can't wear those wedding slacks, even my old jeans are a squeeze. I like that I'm getting stronger, but my weight isn't changing AT ALL. In fact, I've gained 2 lbs sine the dust settled after the holidays. I'm eating the prescribed number of calories for my weight and BMI (approx. 2150 / day; additional 250 cals on strength training days; I eat back calories I burn for interval workouts). I know I shouldn't judge by the scale, but, like I said, I don't look any better or notice any change in clothing size.
So, there you go, that's all the info I can muster. I'm getting pissed. Don't know if I should go back to just cutting calories until I'm the size / appearance I want to be and THEN try to add muscle and eat more... or do I stick it out doing it the "right way." In my heart, I believe cutting calories is unhealthy. I'm also a bit impatient.
What do you think? Is it to soon to switch methods? Am I doing it wrong? Not lifting enough (I know I'm doing the women's workouts, which target multiple muscle groups, but I'm doing as much weight as I can)? Any insight, especially from men or women who follow Schuyler or have done the New Rules thing, would be appreciated.
eat less calories is your answer end of0 -
Buy a food scale and start weighing your portions. You're likely eating more than you think. And be patient. You're likely retaining some water for muscle repair, and also it takes awhile for the results from lifting to start to show.0
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Buy a food scale and start weighing your portions. You're likely eating more than you think. And be patient. You're likely retaining some water for muscle repair, and also it takes awhile for the results from lifting to start to show.
true so by eating more than he thinks the answer is?
eat less
water retention for crying out loud0 -
Buy a food scale and start weighing your portions. You're likely eating more than you think. And be patient. You're likely retaining some water for muscle repair, and also it takes awhile for the results from lifting to start to show.
true so by eating more than he thinks the answer is?
eat less
water retention for crying out loud
It's true that you can eat less without a scale. Personally I prefer the scale method. It doesn't take all of the guesswork out of it, but it does help. Before MFP I would lose weight with the vague idea of "eating less" but it was difficult to know how much less-- it all just felt like a shot in the dark.
YMMV0 -
Buy a food scale and start weighing your portions. You're likely eating more than you think. And be patient. You're likely retaining some water for muscle repair, and also it takes awhile for the results from lifting to start to show.
true so by eating more than he thinks the answer is?
eat less
water retention for crying out loud
It's true that you can eat less without a scale. Personally I prefer the scale method. It doesn't take all of the guesswork out of it, but it does help. Before MFP I would lose weight with the vague idea of "eating less" but it was difficult to know how much less-- it all just felt like a shot in the dark.
YMMV
everyone has a different bmr tdee calorie burn from exercise, do you trust food companies labels to the exact calorie, one day you may burn more energy than the next , it is all guesswork, eat well exercise then reassess, this is a lifestyle change who in their right mind wants to weigh food and strap a heart rate monitor to themselves for the next 40 years0 -
her post makes sense...make sure he is eating the amount he thinks he is. If he is logging wrong he may be eating MORE than he thinksBuy a food scale and start weighing your portions. You're likely eating more than you think. And be patient. You're likely retaining some water for muscle repair, and also it takes awhile for the results from lifting to start to show.
true so by eating more than he thinks the answer is?
eat less
water retention for crying out loud
therefore if he weighs his food he will be eating less than if he was measuring less accurately
and yes muscles retain water as they repair
for crying out loud.0 -
you are on a calorie counting website.Buy a food scale and start weighing your portions. You're likely eating more than you think. And be patient. You're likely retaining some water for muscle repair, and also it takes awhile for the results from lifting to start to show.
true so by eating more than he thinks the answer is?
eat less
water retention for crying out loud
It's true that you can eat less without a scale. Personally I prefer the scale method. It doesn't take all of the guesswork out of it, but it does help. Before MFP I would lose weight with the vague idea of "eating less" but it was difficult to know how much less-- it all just felt like a shot in the dark.
YMMV
everyone has a different bmr tdee calorie burn from exercise, do you trust food companies labels to the exact calorie, one day you may burn more energy than the next , it is all guesswork, eat well exercise then reassess, this is a lifestyle change who in their right mind wants to weigh food and strap a heart rate monitor to themselves for the next 40 years
0 -
her post makes sense...make sure he is eating the amount he thinks he is. If he is logging wrong he may be eating MORE than he thinksBuy a food scale and start weighing your portions. You're likely eating more than you think. And be patient. You're likely retaining some water for muscle repair, and also it takes awhile for the results from lifting to start to show.
true so by eating more than he thinks the answer is?
eat less
water retention for crying out loud
therefore if he weighs his food he will be eating less than if he was measuring less accurately
and yes muscles retain water as they repair
for crying out loud.
you have great legs so i will not argue with you0 -
Buy a food scale and start weighing your portions. You're likely eating more than you think. And be patient. You're likely retaining some water for muscle repair, and also it takes awhile for the results from lifting to start to show.
true so by eating more than he thinks the answer is?
eat less
water retention for crying out loud
And what is it going to hurt to invest in a food scale to get a more accurate understanding on what you are consuming? Hmmm?0 -
The links provided are good, definitely check them out. I think you need to be more patient, it's only been....22 days? You may just need to give it more time.
A digital scale can give you a higher degree of accuracy with your intake. Consider it. Check the links provided, but for the most part...I agree with the post above. Your body will take some time to adjust to new ways of eating and working out. Give it at least a full month.0 -
We started on January 2nd and it's not even been a month.
It's been 3 weeks. Give it time.
That being said the above posters are right on about weighing food and being accurate.0 -
Yeah, I think you just need to be patient. It's been 3 weeks. Any weight loss could be masked by water retention and swelling of the muscles. Give it a good 6-8 weeks before deciding if you need to change your calorie targets. But yeah, measuring won't hurt anything.0
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HEY
her post makes sense...make sure he is eating the amount he thinks he is. If he is logging wrong he may be eating MORE than he thinksBuy a food scale and start weighing your portions. You're likely eating more than you think. And be patient. You're likely retaining some water for muscle repair, and also it takes awhile for the results from lifting to start to show.
true so by eating more than he thinks the answer is?
eat less
water retention for crying out loud
therefore if he weighs his food he will be eating less than if he was measuring less accurately
and yes muscles retain water as they repair
for crying out loud.
you have great legs so i will not argue with you
0 -
Buy a food scale and start weighing your portions. You're likely eating more than you think. And be patient. You're likely retaining some water for muscle repair, and also it takes awhile for the results from lifting to start to show.
true so by eating more than he thinks the answer is?
eat less
water retention for crying out loud
It's true that you can eat less without a scale. Personally I prefer the scale method. It doesn't take all of the guesswork out of it, but it does help. Before MFP I would lose weight with the vague idea of "eating less" but it was difficult to know how much less-- it all just felt like a shot in the dark.
YMMV
everyone has a different bmr tdee calorie burn from exercise, do you trust food companies labels to the exact calorie, one day you may burn more energy than the next , it is all guesswork, eat well exercise then reassess, this is a lifestyle change who in their right mind wants to weigh food and strap a heart rate monitor to themselves for the next 40 years
No, but I believe in reducing the user error as much as possible, within reason. Weighing food isn't an inconvenience for me, but if it were it's not like it would be necessary forever, just long enough to give a person an idea of what proper portion sizes look like.0 -
Buy a food scale and start weighing your portions. You're likely eating more than you think. And be patient. You're likely retaining some water for muscle repair, and also it takes awhile for the results from lifting to start to show.
true so by eating more than he thinks the answer is?
eat less
water retention for crying out loud
And what is it going to hurt to invest in a food scale to get a more accurate understanding on what you are consuming? Hmmm?
if we believe that 3500 calories is a whole 1lb of fat then how much do you need to weigh everything? i monitored my food intake for a couple of weeks saw the food that was killing me weight wise and cut down on it, i really don't care if my yoghurt is a tablespoon or 1 and 7/8 of a tablespoon it is nonsense
i had chicken tonight as i did last week, the wife may have had 200g last week but 230 this week meaning i had less who cares0 -
It sounds perfectly fine to me. I don't find it a burden at all.everyone has a different bmr tdee calorie burn from exercise, do you trust food companies labels to the exact calorie, one day you may burn more energy than the next , it is all guesswork, eat well exercise then reassess, this is a lifestyle change who in their right mind wants to weigh food and strap a heart rate monitor to themselves for the next 40 years0 -
Buy a food scale and start weighing your portions. You're likely eating more than you think. And be patient. You're likely retaining some water for muscle repair, and also it takes awhile for the results from lifting to start to show.
true so by eating more than he thinks the answer is?
eat less
water retention for crying out loud
And what is it going to hurt to invest in a food scale to get a more accurate understanding on what you are consuming? Hmmm?
if we believe that 3500 calories is a whole 1lb of fat then how much do you need to weigh everything? i monitored my food intake for a couple of weeks saw the food that was killing me weight wise and cut down on it, i really don't care if my yoghurt is a tablespoon or 1 and 7/8 of a tablespoon it is nonsense
i had chicken tonight as i did last week, the wife may have had 200g last week but 230 this week meaning i had less who cares
So don't weigh. My post was not directed at you.0 -
HEY
her post makes sense...make sure he is eating the amount he thinks he is. If he is logging wrong he may be eating MORE than he thinksBuy a food scale and start weighing your portions. You're likely eating more than you think. And be patient. You're likely retaining some water for muscle repair, and also it takes awhile for the results from lifting to start to show.
true so by eating more than he thinks the answer is?
eat less
water retention for crying out loud
therefore if he weighs his food he will be eating less than if he was measuring less accurately
and yes muscles retain water as they repair
for crying out loud.
you have great legs so i will not argue with you
hey what?0 -
A couple of questions that were not answered:
(1) Nobody is going to make fun of you for doing NROL4W with your wife. The exercises are gender neutral.
(2) If you are eating at a set calorie amount, plus 250 more on workout days, you would not add back your calories per MFP's calculator. You are already accounting for the extra calories.
(3) I'm not sure how you figured out your calorie goal. Did you use the information in NROL? Did you use the MFP calculator? What were the settings? Have you tried to figure your TDEE using scoobys workshop? (google will bring up the website for calculating TDEE). If your goal is to cut, you may want to consider that approach. Determine your TDEE, subtract 15% for your deficit, and eat that amount every day.
(4) Everyone else said patience, and yes. You do need to be patient. Everyone else also expressed the need for a food scale. You'd be amazed at the difference in gram weight and dry measure.0 -
A couple of questions that were not answered:
(1) Nobody is going to make fun of you for doing NROL4W with your wife. The exercises are gender neutral.
(2) If you are eating at a set calorie amount, plus 250 more on workout days, you would not add back your calories per MFP's calculator. You are already accounting for the extra calories.
(3) I'm not sure how you figured out your calorie goal. Did you use the information in NROL? Did you use the MFP calculator? What were the settings? Have you tried to figure your TDEE using scoobys workshop? (google will bring up the website for calculating TDEE). If your goal is to cut, you may want to consider that approach. Determine your TDEE, subtract 15% for your deficit, and eat that amount every day.
(4) Everyone else said patience, and yes. You do need to be patient. Everyone else also expressed the need for a food scale. You'd be amazed at the difference in gram weight and dry measure.
How do you work out you calorie intake on MFP?0 -
Buy a food scale and start weighing your portions. You're likely eating more than you think. And be patient. You're likely retaining some water for muscle repair, and also it takes awhile for the results from lifting to start to show.
true so by eating more than he thinks the answer is?
eat less
water retention for crying out loud
It's true that you can eat less without a scale. Personally I prefer the scale method. It doesn't take all of the guesswork out of it, but it does help. Before MFP I would lose weight with the vague idea of "eating less" but it was difficult to know how much less-- it all just felt like a shot in the dark.
YMMV
everyone has a different bmr tdee calorie burn from exercise, do you trust food companies labels to the exact calorie, one day you may burn more energy than the next , it is all guesswork, eat well exercise then reassess, this is a lifestyle change who in their right mind wants to weigh food and strap a heart rate monitor to themselves for the next 40 years
I have no problem weighing food for the next 40 years. Its a whole 10-20 minutes out of my day.0 -
HEYyou have great legs so i will not argue with you
hey what?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0lg3MyB1C4 0 -
HEYyou have great legs so i will not argue with you
hey what?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0lg3MyB1C4
you like clapton as well your word is gold on here from this point, although in fairness i will be banned at any point0 -
Buy a food scale and start weighing your portions. You're likely eating more than you think. And be patient. You're likely retaining some water for muscle repair, and also it takes awhile for the results from lifting to start to show.
true so by eating more than he thinks the answer is?
eat less
water retention for crying out loud
It's true that you can eat less without a scale. Personally I prefer the scale method. It doesn't take all of the guesswork out of it, but it does help. Before MFP I would lose weight with the vague idea of "eating less" but it was difficult to know how much less-- it all just felt like a shot in the dark.
YMMV
everyone has a different bmr tdee calorie burn from exercise, do you trust food companies labels to the exact calorie, one day you may burn more energy than the next , it is all guesswork, eat well exercise then reassess, this is a lifestyle change who in their right mind wants to weigh food and strap a heart rate monitor to themselves for the next 40 years
I have no problem weighing food for the next 40 years. Its a whole 10-20 minutes out of my day.
i will bet you one hundred thousand pounds(that is about 5 million of your mickey mouse dollars) that you stop weighing your food by independance day which i believe is july the 4th or december the 25th0 -
Buy a food scale and start weighing your portions. You're likely eating more than you think. And be patient. You're likely retaining some water for muscle repair, and also it takes awhile for the results from lifting to start to show.
true so by eating more than he thinks the answer is?
eat less
water retention for crying out loud
It's true that you can eat less without a scale. Personally I prefer the scale method. It doesn't take all of the guesswork out of it, but it does help. Before MFP I would lose weight with the vague idea of "eating less" but it was difficult to know how much less-- it all just felt like a shot in the dark.
YMMV
everyone has a different bmr tdee calorie burn from exercise, do you trust food companies labels to the exact calorie, one day you may burn more energy than the next , it is all guesswork, eat well exercise then reassess, this is a lifestyle change who in their right mind wants to weigh food and strap a heart rate monitor to themselves for the next 40 years
I have no problem weighing food for the next 40 years. Its a whole 10-20 minutes out of my day.
i will bet you one hundred thousand pounds(that is about 5 million of your mickey mouse dollars) that you stop weighing your food by independance day which i believe is july the 4th or december the 25th
Why would I stop after nearly a year of consistent weighing, measuring, and logging? Especially when I enjoy it so much. I love tracking and gathering accurate data to observe trends.0
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