Are the poor fat?

tennisdude2004

interesting debate - cars and spoons cause obesity.

I think we're missing the obvious - Motorbikes cause obesity!

two reasons - 1) They whip through traffic and get you to the restaurant quicker. 2) At least in cars you get stuck in traffic and have to sit there tapping your foot as you wait (and as we all know foot tapping is great way to burn calories).

Charlottesometimes23

It's a little difficult to think of a car as a luxury when you live in a part of the country where the temperature are below freezing for more than half of the year, and if you work more than a couple of miles away from your home and don't have public transportation available to you you will be risking your life if you try to walk to work.

I have lived in Canada for 54 of my nearly 61 years and have never owned a car nor have I needed to. During all this time I have heard thousands of people complain how impossible it is to live without a car. I have also noticed that it is only the people who HAVE cars who cannot live without them. People who don't have cars seem to be doing just fine. And, coincidentally, areas of the country with highest car ownership also have the highest rates of obesity. Hmmmm

Perhaps I should just walk the 88 km return journal to my work. It would take me almost as long catching public transportation and changing over several times to reach my destination.

If I leave at 3am and walk at a brisk pace, I might make it to work by 9am and then back home at 11pm. You're right, I should do just fine without a car. Hmmmm

shano25

It's again about the choices you make concerning external factors, not the external factors themselves.

I live in a highly walkable, low-income neighbourhood. We chose this so we could own one car, my husband takes it to work because he works outside the city, and I walk or take the bus. Every day I walk one child to the bus stop and one child to school as well as picking them up. I walk to the library, the grocery store, the mall, the doctor, and to friend's houses. In my neighbourhood the furthest you have to walk to anything is 10 minutes.

And yet, I know people who pay other people to walk their children to school, who drive to the store that is literally across the street, who take the elevator to go up or down a few floors. Add this to poor food choices, and these are the people who are complaining that they are overweight and asking me how I manage to stay so thin.

We all have the same amount of money, the same resources, but we make different choices.

WendyTerry420

interesting debate - cars and spoons cause obesity.

I think we're missing the obvious - Motorbikes cause obesity!

two reasons - 1) They whip through traffic and get you to the restaurant quicker. 2) At least in cars you get stuck in traffic and have to sit there tapping your foot as you wait (and as we all know foot tapping is great way to burn calories).

No way! It's totally water skis that cause obesity! Just because! :smokin:

TheITCrowd1

It's a little difficult to think of a car as a luxury when you live in a part of the country where the temperature are below freezing for more than half of the year, and if you work more than a couple of miles away from your home and don't have public transportation available to you you will be risking your life if you try to walk to work.

I have lived in Canada for 54 of my nearly 61 years and have never owned a car nor have I needed to. During all this time I have heard thousands of people complain how impossible it is to live without a car. I have also noticed that it is only the people who HAVE cars who cannot live without them. People who don't have cars seem to be doing just fine. And, coincidentally, areas of the country with highest car ownership also have the highest rates of obesity. Hmmmm

You clearly live in an area with public transportation.

Cars do not make people obese. I'm not about to walk the 16 mile drive to work, a journey that would take 40 minutes in a car. My time is more valuable than wasting most of my day walking to my destination. If I had access to public transportation, then that would be a different story.

Without the car we wouldn't have drive thru's and with out drive thru's people would be as fat. so I'm going with cars add to obesity, plus glove boxes hold a lot of food.

Cars have steering wheels that turn the opposite way of the drive thru. And drivers with brains who can make choices not to go into the drive through. Cars are tools, like spoons. If cars are part of the obesity problem, then perhaps spoons are too.

I see the self righteous "i dont own a car brigade" is alive and well - which is one thing which really gets my pet goat riled!

you should move to San Francisco with an attitude like that where everything is so fresh and preppy! I dont know how many times people have said "you don't need a car in london" people who don't actually live here and have no concept that a 50square mile city cannot be covered by the tube.

I live in central london which has some of the best transport in the world, AND have a car, and i'm not fat and most people i know are not fat either. Why do you need a car in London? Well come here and what you'll find is its a vast sprawling metropolis 50 miles squared in every direction, the ring road is 180 miles to drive around! not everything is on thenetwork or convenient to get to, so whilst public transport is good for some its not a silver bullet for everything - Walking home with water bottles is not only tiring, but it makes you look like a tramp

High fructose corn syrup is a MASSIVE indicator of obesity - which is stuffed into almost everything in the states - its a largely banned substance in many countries and because the EU does NOT subsidies corn production, sugar is actually the cheaper option - whilst not good for you its nowhere near as bad as HFCS.

As for the poor, well - in america its VERY expensive to eat properly for alot of people they have to choose between health insurance and eating (i'm sure i'll get flamed for saying this) but seriously have you been for a drive around the old part of vegas on a Wednesday Night? Are you telling me these people have a choice - what struck me was just how many homeless people there are and people on the verge of it and how willing people are to turn a blind eye, or just say its their own faults .. i don't see any compassion in that

rml_16

As for the poor, well - in america its VERY expensive to eat properly for alot of people they have to choose between health insurance and eating (i'm sure i'll get flamed for saying this) but seriously have you been for a drive around the old part of vegas on a Wednesday Night? Are you telling me these people have a choice - what struck me was just how many homeless people there are and people on the verge of it and how willing people are to turn a blind eye, or just say its their own faults .. i don't see any compassion in that

I think you should probably actually live here before making judgments like that.

You start your post telling people they don't know about London because they don't live there and end it by telling Americans about their own country -- where you don't live. And, no, visiting it not the same as living here.

We have compassion. But sometimes people do have to help themselves. Have you ever really gotten to know a true drug addict? You can hand them all the tools, but in the end, it's up to them. I know a man who got clean (with his family's help and support), started a business, was rolling in cash it was so successful, even bought himself a yacht.

And now, only five years later, he's back in the gutter. Not because no one will help him but because he went back to the drugs and has burned all his bridges along the way.

TheITCrowd1

As for the poor, well - in america its VERY expensive to eat properly for alot of people they have to choose between health insurance and eating (i'm sure i'll get flamed for saying this) but seriously have you been for a drive around the old part of vegas on a Wednesday Night? Are you telling me these people have a choice - what struck me was just how many homeless people there are and people on the verge of it and how willing people are to turn a blind eye, or just say its their own faults .. i don't see any compassion in that

I think you should probably actually live here before making judgments like that.

You start your post telling people they don't know about London because they don't live there and end it by telling Americans about their own country -- where you don't live. And, no, visiting it not the same as living here.

We have compassion. But sometimes people do have to help themselves. Have you ever really gotten to know a true drug addict? You can hand them all the tools, but in the end, it's up to them. I know a man who got clean (with his family's help and support), started a business, was rolling in cash it was so successful, even bought himself a yacht.

And now, only five years later, he's back in the gutter. Not because no one will help him but because he went back to the drugs and has burned all his bridges along the way.

#

Actually RML i did live in America so quite well qualified to comment, In vegas specifically and travelled many times to California and have many friends living there - many without health insurance ..

I also had to go to the hospital and got my insurance partially refused on spurious grounds so had to pay 15,000 dollars for a few nights in and some fluids - so i'd say i'm quite well qualified to comment, give me the NHS over that any day of any week .. a society is judged on how it treats its weakest and well.. you know the rest

The gov is happy to give millionaires a tax break whilst kicking the sick to the curb - and turfing people out of their foreclosed homes - the middle class is dissapearing and that includes being able to afford healthcare and good food at once you need to earn quite a decent wedge - and this is coming from someone who can afford both - i don't agree with it even if i'm not in that situation

TheITCrowd1

As for the poor, well - in america its VERY expensive to eat properly for alot of people they have to choose between health insurance and eating (i'm sure i'll get flamed for saying this) but seriously have you been for a drive around the old part of vegas on a Wednesday Night? Are you telling me these people have a choice - what struck me was just how many homeless people there are and people on the verge of it and how willing people are to turn a blind eye, or just say its their own faults .. i don't see any compassion in that

I think you should probably actually live here before making judgments like that.

You start your post telling people they don't know about London because they don't live there and end it by telling Americans about their own country -- where you don't live. And, no, visiting it not the same as living here.

We have compassion. But sometimes people do have to help themselves. Have you ever really gotten to know a true drug addict? You can hand them all the tools, but in the end, it's up to them. I know a man who got clean (with his family's help and support), started a business, was rolling in cash it was so successful, even bought himself a yacht.

And now, only five years later, he's back in the gutter. Not because no one will help him but because he went back to the drugs and has burned all his bridges along the way.

its sad to hear about your friend, but he is poor now, can he afford both healthcare and good nutricious food 3 times a day ? in my mind anyone who cant say yes to both is technically speaking "poor" - not everyone homeless is a drug addict, many middle class professionals, accountants, lawyers, hell even bankers have been kicked to the curb in the last few years and find themselves either homeless or in a very desperate situation -- its not nice and i pray it never happens to you or your family - but i don't think you can possibly understand until you get the rug pulled out from under you what it could possible be like

rml_16

As for the poor, well - in america its VERY expensive to eat properly for alot of people they have to choose between health insurance and eating (i'm sure i'll get flamed for saying this) but seriously have you been for a drive around the old part of vegas on a Wednesday Night? Are you telling me these people have a choice - what struck me was just how many homeless people there are and people on the verge of it and how willing people are to turn a blind eye, or just say its their own faults .. i don't see any compassion in that

I think you should probably actually live here before making judgments like that.

You start your post telling people they don't know about London because they don't live there and end it by telling Americans about their own country -- where you don't live. And, no, visiting it not the same as living here.

We have compassion. But sometimes people do have to help themselves. Have you ever really gotten to know a true drug addict? You can hand them all the tools, but in the end, it's up to them. I know a man who got clean (with his family's help and support), started a business, was rolling in cash it was so successful, even bought himself a yacht.

And now, only five years later, he's back in the gutter. Not because no one will help him but because he went back to the drugs and has burned all his bridges along the way.

its sad to hear about your friend, but he is poor now, can he afford both healthcare and good nutricious food 3 times a day ? in my mind anyone who cant say yes to both is technically speaking "poor" -

The US actually does have a public health program for people who are lower-income.

And for those who don't qualify, most states have programs for the working poor where the premium is based on income (you might pay nothing or maybe $9 a month for it).

But you know, you have some friends here and you lived here for a little while, so you know it all.

eddiesmith1

It's again about the choices you make concerning external factors, not the external factors themselves.

I live in a highly walkable, low-income neighbourhood. We chose this so we could own one car, my husband takes it to work because he works outside the city, and I walk or take the bus. Every day I walk one child to the bus stop and one child to school as well as picking them up. I walk to the library, the grocery store, the mall, the doctor, and to friend's houses. In my neighbourhood the furthest you have to walk to anything is 10 minutes.

And yet, I know people who pay other people to walk their children to school, who drive to the store that is literally across the street, who take the elevator to go up or down a few floors. Add this to poor food choices, and these are the people who are complaining that they are overweight and asking me how I manage to stay so thin.

We all have the same amount of money, the same resources, but we make different choices.

this is it
We make the choices and have to live within them. I made the choice a long time ago to live in the core of the city, I work in the core, I can cycle to work (if the weather co-operates) I can walk home (I take transit in usually) and though I own a car I don't use it a lot (I bought this one in august and it has 3900 km as of Sunday when I used it for a trip out of town (less than 600 km a month at this point - that's about 372 miles - most of it on trips out of town, or doing the food shopping. When I bought my house i sacrificed big lots and a big house but a need to drive almost everywhere for a small lot and small house and walk-ability and good transit and living close to work. I'll disagree on the money and resource thing though we definitely do not all have equality there and in fact it is worse the further south you go (it's like you don't deserve a livable wage for living in a warm climate)

TheITCrowd1

As for the poor, well - in america its VERY expensive to eat properly for alot of people they have to choose between health insurance and eating (i'm sure i'll get flamed for saying this) but seriously have you been for a drive around the old part of vegas on a Wednesday Night? Are you telling me these people have a choice - what struck me was just how many homeless people there are and people on the verge of it and how willing people are to turn a blind eye, or just say its their own faults .. i don't see any compassion in that

I think you should probably actually live here before making judgments like that.

You start your post telling people they don't know about London because they don't live there and end it by telling Americans about their own country -- where you don't live. And, no, visiting it not the same as living here.

We have compassion. But sometimes people do have to help themselves. Have you ever really gotten to know a true drug addict? You can hand them all the tools, but in the end, it's up to them. I know a man who got clean (with his family's help and support), started a business, was rolling in cash it was so successful, even bought himself a yacht.

And now, only five years later, he's back in the gutter. Not because no one will help him but because he went back to the drugs and has burned all his bridges along the way.

its sad to hear about your friend, but he is poor now, can he afford both healthcare and good nutricious food 3 times a day ? in my mind anyone who cant say yes to both is technically speaking "poor" -

The US actually does have a public health program for people who are lower-income.

And for those who don't qualify, most states have programs for the working poor where the premium is based on income (you might pay nothing or maybe $9 a month for it).

But you know, you have some friends here and you lived here for a little while, so you know it all.

I'm sure your a nice girl but i have to disagree 100% with what you've said for just about every reason under the sun going...


When you say a little - do you mean the 37 MILLION uninsured either because they are not 'viable'? or the 'paltry' 90million who are underinsured so would only get a partial payout in the event of something happening because they flat out can't afford it.

My guess is these same 90 million people cannot afford to eat a balanced diet week to week either ..


Out of 300million population, 90 is NOT a good number - thats almost a third ..

while, like it makes a difference whether it was 1 month or 2 years (More specifically in my case) -- When you say "don't qualify" what you mean is people paid slave labour wages by massive corporations right? Thats alot of people who have to choose between eating and getting healthcare - then you've got people railing against raising the minimum wage because it will cause economic hardship for a few billionaires! is this the same "small" amount your talking about??

Sorry your never going to win on this argument on the numbers alone, and need a better argument other than "You only lived her for a while"

are you saying things have changed since i left??

eddiesmith1

As for the poor, well - in america its VERY expensive to eat properly for alot of people they have to choose between health insurance and eating (i'm sure i'll get flamed for saying this) but seriously have you been for a drive around the old part of vegas on a Wednesday Night? Are you telling me these people have a choice - what struck me was just how many homeless people there are and people on the verge of it and how willing people are to turn a blind eye, or just say its their own faults .. i don't see any compassion in that

I think you should probably actually live here before making judgments like that.

You start your post telling people they don't know about London because they don't live there and end it by telling Americans about their own country -- where you don't live. And, no, visiting it not the same as living here.

We have compassion. But sometimes people do have to help themselves. Have you ever really gotten to know a true drug addict? You can hand them all the tools, but in the end, it's up to them. I know a man who got clean (with his family's help and support), started a business, was rolling in cash it was so successful, even bought himself a yacht.

And now, only five years later, he's back in the gutter. Not because no one will help him but because he went back to the drugs and has burned all his bridges along the way.

its sad to hear about your friend, but he is poor now, can he afford both healthcare and good nutricious food 3 times a day ? in my mind anyone who cant say yes to both is technically speaking "poor" -

The US actually does have a public health program for people who are lower-income.

And for those who don't qualify, most states have programs for the working poor where the premium is based on income (you might pay nothing or maybe $9 a month for it).

But you know, you have some friends here and you lived here for a little while, so you know it all.

I'm sure your a nice girl but i have to disagree 100% with what you've said for just about every reason under the sun going...


When you say a little - do you mean the 37 MILLION uninsured either because they are not 'viable'? or the 'paltry' 90million who are underinsured so would only get a partial payout in the event of something happening because they flat out can't afford it.

My guess is these same 90 million people cannot afford to eat a balanced diet week to week either ..


Out of 300million population, 90 is NOT a good number - thats almost a third ..

while, like it makes a difference whether it was 1 month or 2 years (More specifically in my case) -- When you say "don't qualify" what you mean is people paid slave labour wages by massive corporations right? Thats alot of people who have to choose between eating and getting healthcare - then you've got people railing against raising the minimum wage because it will cause economic hardship for a few billionaires! is this the same "small" amount your talking about??

Sorry your never going to win on this argument on the numbers alone, and need a better argument other than "You only lived her for a while"

are you saying things have changed since i left??

the numbers speak for themselves, the ability to ignore them OTOH is a strong force in the US (and no I don't live there, I do have a large number of friends who do though and I live just across the border. )

TheITCrowd1

As for the poor, well - in america its VERY expensive to eat properly for alot of people they have to choose between health insurance and eating (i'm sure i'll get flamed for saying this) but seriously have you been for a drive around the old part of vegas on a Wednesday Night? Are you telling me these people have a choice - what struck me was just how many homeless people there are and people on the verge of it and how willing people are to turn a blind eye, or just say its their own faults .. i don't see any compassion in that

I think you should probably actually live here before making judgments like that.

You start your post telling people they don't know about London because they don't live there and end it by telling Americans about their own country -- where you don't live. And, no, visiting it not the same as living here.

We have compassion. But sometimes people do have to help themselves. Have you ever really gotten to know a true drug addict? You can hand them all the tools, but in the end, it's up to them. I know a man who got clean (with his family's help and support), started a business, was rolling in cash it was so successful, even bought himself a yacht.

And now, only five years later, he's back in the gutter. Not because no one will help him but because he went back to the drugs and has burned all his bridges along the way.

its sad to hear about your friend, but he is poor now, can he afford both healthcare and good nutricious food 3 times a day ? in my mind anyone who cant say yes to both is technically speaking "poor" -

The US actually does have a public health program for people who are lower-income.

And for those who don't qualify, most states have programs for the working poor where the premium is based on income (you might pay nothing or maybe $9 a month for it).

But you know, you have some friends here and you lived here for a little while, so you know it all.

I'm sure your a nice girl but i have to disagree 100% with what you've said for just about every reason under the sun going...


When you say a little - do you mean the 37 MILLION uninsured either because they are not 'viable'? or the 'paltry' 90million who are underinsured so would only get a partial payout in the event of something happening because they flat out can't afford it.

My guess is these same 90 million people cannot afford to eat a balanced diet week to week either ..


Out of 300million population, 90 is NOT a good number - thats almost a third ..

while, like it makes a difference whether it was 1 month or 2 years (More specifically in my case) -- When you say "don't qualify" what you mean is people paid slave labour wages by massive corporations right? Thats alot of people who have to choose between eating and getting healthcare - then you've got people railing against raising the minimum wage because it will cause economic hardship for a few billionaires! is this the same "small" amount your talking about??

Sorry your never going to win on this argument on the numbers alone, and need a better argument other than "You only lived her for a while"

are you saying things have changed since i left??

the numbers speak for themselves, the ability to ignore them OTOH is a strong force in the US (and no I don't live there, I do have a large number of friends who do though and I live just across the border. )

It's the same story with the property 'market' never underestimate a large crowd's ability to play fast and loose with the fundamentals - in order to make a quick buck..

if you give people a dream they can achieve greatness with no real prospect of success they will spend forever doing your bidding to get there ... its easy to brainwash a large number of people into believing - the cost of living comfortably will never be in reach for a massive section of society - and that includes being able to get healthcare, good food and shelter of a reasonable standard -

HardcoreP0rk

I just came across this post on a thread, "Why is eating healthy so darn expensive?"

"This is why poor people are usually the fat ones. Takes discipline to cut down on unimportant living expenses and buy healthy food, which is much more expensive (MUCH, MUCH MORE - if the farmers weren't subsidized) to grow, produce. Also, the cost if you are determined to eat healthy (and exercise) is a very good reason to grow your own. Even if you only have a patio, I grew tomatoes, cucumbers, etc., in pots on my sundeck."

I agree in a lot of ways.

Thoughts?

The poor are overweight and malnourished...but it's a lot more complicated than "healthy food is expensive."











Also...healthy food isn't expensive.

shano25

It's again about the choices you make concerning external factors, not the external factors themselves.

I live in a highly walkable, low-income neighbourhood. We chose this so we could own one car, my husband takes it to work because he works outside the city, and I walk or take the bus. Every day I walk one child to the bus stop and one child to school as well as picking them up. I walk to the library, the grocery store, the mall, the doctor, and to friend's houses. In my neighbourhood the furthest you have to walk to anything is 10 minutes.

And yet, I know people who pay other people to walk their children to school, who drive to the store that is literally across the street, who take the elevator to go up or down a few floors. Add this to poor food choices, and these are the people who are complaining that they are overweight and asking me how I manage to stay so thin.

We all have the same amount of money, the same resources, but we make different choices.

this is it
We make the choices and have to live within them. I made the choice a long time ago to live in the core of the city, I work in the core, I can cycle to work (if the weather co-operates) I can walk home (I take transit in usually) and though I own a car I don't use it a lot (I bought this one in august and it has 3900 km as of Sunday when I used it for a trip out of town (less than 600 km a month at this point - that's about 372 miles - most of it on trips out of town, or doing the food shopping. When I bought my house i sacrificed big lots and a big house but a need to drive almost everywhere for a small lot and small house and walk-ability and good transit and living close to work. I'll disagree on the money and resource thing though we definitely do not all have equality there and in fact it is worse the further south you go (it's like you don't deserve a livable wage for living in a warm climate)

The money/resource thing I mentioned was in terms of my neighbourhood. The majority of us living here (and the people I know personally) are all in the same boat financially, but we make different choices.

rml_16

I'm sure your a nice girl but i have to disagree 100% with what you've said for just about every reason under the sun going...


When you say a little - do you mean the 37 MILLION uninsured either because they are not 'viable'? or the 'paltry' 90million who are underinsured so would only get a partial payout in the event of something happening because they flat out can't afford it.

My guess is these same 90 million people cannot afford to eat a balanced diet week to week either ..


Out of 300million population, 90 is NOT a good number - thats almost a third ..

while, like it makes a difference whether it was 1 month or 2 years (More specifically in my case) -- When you say "don't qualify" what you mean is people paid slave labour wages by massive corporations right? Thats alot of people who have to choose between eating and getting healthcare - then you've got people railing against raising the minimum wage because it will cause economic hardship for a few billionaires! is this the same "small" amount your talking about??

Sorry your never going to win on this argument on the numbers alone, and need a better argument other than "You only lived her for a while"

are you saying things have changed since i left??

I had my daughter when I was 17 years old and still in high school. Her father didn't bother to stick around or help out (no child support for the first eight years and he still isn't having to pay everythign he owes me). I graduated high school, went to college, worked part-time, minimum wage jobs and even after I graduated, it took a LONG time to build a career and get to a place where I was able to have a nice, comfortable life. My first "real" job after college paid $8 an hour.

So don't think I don't know what poor is or what programs are available to help people in a bad situation. Just because people choose not to take advantage of them doesn't mean they aren't available.

Are things perfect over here? Far from. but they're also not the dire straits people like you want to make them out to be.

WendyTerry420

As for the poor, well - in america its VERY expensive to eat properly for alot of people

Not true. Anyone who thinks it's expensive to eat "properly" has a skewed definition of "proper" eating. My family of four has a healthy diet on about $80 a week. I simply buy things when they are on sale, and I don't buy any of the expensive, pre-prepared foods such as frozen dinners and pizza rolls, etc. I review the weekly ads and buy the loss leaders at three to four different stores. For someone not willing to plan, the food that I get might cost them nearly twice what I pay.

rml_16

As for the poor, well - in america its VERY expensive to eat properly for alot of people

Not true. Anyone who thinks it's expensive to eat "properly" has a skewed definition of "proper" eating. My family of four has a healthy diet on about $80 a week. I simply buy things when they are on sale, and I don't buy any of the expensive, pre-prepared foods such as frozen dinners and pizza rolls, etc. I review the weekly ads and buy the loss leaders at three to four different stores. For someone not willing to plan, the food that I get might cost them nearly twice what I pay.

In fairness, his (her?) view of America is Vegas and California ...

kaseysospacey

yes, for a myriad of reasons. First, they are more likely to be uneducated. This is not always true of course (I'm pretty poor and I have a Bachelors degree)but overall. So they might not understand as much about nutrition, and may fall victim more often to the bogus claims on food packages. Secondly, they are going to buy what is cheap and fills you up. Ramen is super cheap! Its also caloric as hell. They are also more likely to have been raised on that kind of food, so its what they know and grew to like. If you grow up on hamburger helper and blue box mac n cheese, real homemade food and fresh vegetables taste weird and are so unfamiliar. Finally, they usually are pretty busy, working multiple jobs etc as well as having inadequate living space. So they dont have as much time to spend preparing food and planning meals,and they may not have great equipment to cook with or space for prepping food or storing food. I know a lot of people who only can go shopping every two weeks so they buy a lot of frozen and boxed food because it keeps.

kaseysospacey

dbl post