Bulky Female Bodies

Fithealthyforlife

But that's just it. If we want people to accept that there is no set definition of feminine then we also have to accept that there is no set definition of masculine either. Some dudes are naturally small and skinny. Sure they could lift for years, take weight gainers, creatine, etc, and make the most of what they could do, but do they HAVE to just to be accepted and attractive? That's just as bad as saying naturally large women need to try to be smaller.

Depends what the person wants for their own body. I'm one of those guys starting out skinny...I'm just lifting, eating a lot of good food, and enjoying the muscle and strength gains. I've always wanted an athletic body, and finally started putting in the work needed to get it. It's what I truly want. I don't care what other people think about it. And some girls have even tried to tell me I shouldn't lift to get bigger and stronger, that I should stay the way I am. Well you know what? I have to do what *I* want, not what someone else wants.

Other guys might be happy staying skinny and weak. More power to them...we're all individuals and should do what we want...whether we're male or female...younger or older.

(Btw, I don't really believe in protein powders, weight gainers, creatine, etc. Good quality real food is my workout supplement of choice.)

arabellaflagg

But that's just it. If we want people to accept that there is no set definition of feminine then we also have to accept that there is no set definition of masculine either. Some dudes are naturally small and skinny. Sure they could lift for years, take weight gainers, creatine, etc, and make the most of what they could do, but do they HAVE to just to be accepted and attractive? That's just as bad as saying naturally large women need to try to be smaller.

as much as I hate to admit it (because I prefer- like- manly men types) this is totally valid.

I often say being feminine has nothing to do with how you dress or what you put on your body- but your attitude and how you conduct yourself- and I think the same could be said for being "masculine"

I do not have an issue with saying there is such a thing as being feminine or masculine- but I find it's a state of mind- or a code of conduct- not your gender - not your clothes- or your size.

So even a small child can be masculine by just choosing to do a certain thing.

I like people to be genuine- that's more important- genuine and confident- whatever that means- go with it.

I agree. I always bring that up because my husband is not a big man. He's 5'9". He wrestled at 135lbs in high school. He did all those things (weight gainers, lifting for years) and at 40 he's now around 160 regularly. But he's very "masculine" in spite of not being "big". He has a confident, dominant, take charge, accept no bull**** personality. He's physical, strong, fast, competitive. He never avoids conflict or backs down from anyone (no matter the other person's size). He's also very fuzzy.

And for that matter my 3 year old son is also "masculine". He climbs, jumps off things, grunts, tries to talk in a growly man voice, etc. He's just much more physical and tough than his sisters (and trust me, I don't predisposition girls to be extra "girly").

**Although I don't know. Maybe we are still better off not defining it. If we define it as a personality then that leaves out those men who are sensitive, vulnerable, and cuddly and implies men should suppress their feelings, etc, which is also an unfortunate thing in our society.

It's probably a lost in translation sort of thing but that description does your hubby no favors. It's very important to know when to avoid confrontation and to have the confidence to back down when there's good reason to. Your choice of words makes poor hubby seem like a cartoon character 'alpha' male. Lol! It's the balance of the masculine/feminine in all of us that makes us able to function. A guy who never avoids confrontation ends up in hospital or jail , a woman who is too submissive allows herself or her kids to be taken advantage of. So each of us has to have a mix of the 'masculine' and 'feminine' if we want to call it that.

To add to your last paragraph I would say those characteristics can and do exist together with the aformentioned 'masculine' characteristics in most men. It's not an either or and that's why labels and boxes do us all a disservice. A strong, physical, 'macho' guy can come home and be vulnerable with his family and cry over his ill mama and cuddle his spouse and not be an ounce less masculine and a woman can be confident , take charge and take no BS (I don't think dominance is a good trait in anyone) and still extend 'feminine' empathy to her staff, nurture her family, cry at TV shows, be kind and tender hearted.

We're all shades of grey;-)

BusyRaeNOTBusty

But that's just it. If we want people to accept that there is no set definition of feminine then we also have to accept that there is no set definition of masculine either. Some dudes are naturally small and skinny. Sure they could lift for years, take weight gainers, creatine, etc, and make the most of what they could do, but do they HAVE to just to be accepted and attractive? That's just as bad as saying naturally large women need to try to be smaller.

as much as I hate to admit it (because I prefer- like- manly men types) this is totally valid.

I often say being feminine has nothing to do with how you dress or what you put on your body- but your attitude and how you conduct yourself- and I think the same could be said for being "masculine"

I do not have an issue with saying there is such a thing as being feminine or masculine- but I find it's a state of mind- or a code of conduct- not your gender - not your clothes- or your size.

So even a small child can be masculine by just choosing to do a certain thing.

I like people to be genuine- that's more important- genuine and confident- whatever that means- go with it.

I agree. I always bring that up because my husband is not a big man. He's 5'9". He wrestled at 135lbs in high school. He did all those things (weight gainers, lifting for years) and at 40 he's now around 160 regularly. But he's very "masculine" in spite of not being "big". He has a confident, dominant, take charge, accept no bull**** personality. He's physical, strong, fast, competitive. He never avoids conflict or backs down from anyone (no matter the other person's size). He's also very fuzzy.

And for that matter my 3 year old son is also "masculine". He climbs, jumps off things, grunts, tries to talk in a growly man voice, etc. He's just much more physical and tough than his sisters (and trust me, I don't predisposition girls to be extra "girly").

**Although I don't know. Maybe we are still better off not defining it. If we define it as a personality then that leaves out those men who are sensitive, vulnerable, and cuddly and implies men should suppress their feelings, etc, which is also an unfortunate thing in our society.

It's probably a lost in translation sort of thing but that description does your hubby no favors. It's very important to know when to avoid confrontation and to have the confidence to back down when there's good reason to. Your choice of words makes poor hubby seem like a cartoon character 'alpha' male. Lol! It's the balance of the masculine/feminine in all of us that makes us able to function. A guy who never avoids confrontation ends up in hospital or jail , a woman who is too submissive allows herself or her kids to be taken advantage of. So each of us has to have a mix of the 'masculine' and 'feminine' if we want to call it that.

To add to your last paragraph I would say those characteristics can and do exist together with the aformentioned 'masculine' characteristics in most men. It's not an either or and that's why labels and boxes do us all a disservice. A strong, physical, 'macho' guy can come home and be vulnerable with his family and cry over his ill mama and cuddle his spouse and not be an ounce less masculine and a woman can be confident , take charge and take no BS (I don't think dominance is a good trait in anyone) and still extend 'feminine' empathy to her staff, nurture her family, cry at TV shows, be kind and tender hearted.

We're all shades of grey;-)

I was avoiding the use of the word "alpha" (because there's some huge douch canoes on the board that claim to be) but it's true, it is a pretty good description of him. He doesn't avoid confrontation, and doesn't back down but he isn't cruel, mean or violent. He doesn't pick fights, and hasn't gotten into any since he was a young man. People tend to respect him and like him, sometimes looking to him for leadership. He very kind and loving and even romantic (he actually likes Valentine's Day which I wish he didn't). He's more the "leader" type of alpha, not the "bully" type which are two different things, and I don't really think the "bully" type is really an "alpha", just some one who wants to be. Maybe "dominant" was the wrong word to us. And I am most definitely NOT submissive. He doesn't control me in anyway.


*ETA: Actually, ya know what? I regret making that post. That just so happens to be his personality and it's attractive to me and so maybe to me I therefore think it's "manly". It has nothing to do with masculine and feminine. Again, we should just stop using those words and let men and women be whomever and however they want.

Fithealthyforlife

But that's just it. If we want people to accept that there is no set definition of feminine then we also have to accept that there is no set definition of masculine either. Some dudes are naturally small and skinny. Sure they could lift for years, take weight gainers, creatine, etc, and make the most of what they could do, but do they HAVE to just to be accepted and attractive? That's just as bad as saying naturally large women need to try to be smaller.

as much as I hate to admit it (because I prefer- like- manly men types) this is totally valid.

I often say being feminine has nothing to do with how you dress or what you put on your body- but your attitude and how you conduct yourself- and I think the same could be said for being "masculine"

I do not have an issue with saying there is such a thing as being feminine or masculine- but I find it's a state of mind- or a code of conduct- not your gender - not your clothes- or your size.

So even a small child can be masculine by just choosing to do a certain thing.

I like people to be genuine- that's more important- genuine and confident- whatever that means- go with it.

I agree. I always bring that up because my husband is not a big man. He's 5'9". He wrestled at 135lbs in high school. He did all those things (weight gainers, lifting for years) and at 40 he's now around 160 regularly. But he's very "masculine" in spite of not being "big". He has a confident, dominant, take charge, accept no bull**** personality. He's physical, strong, fast, competitive. He never avoids conflict or backs down from anyone (no matter the other person's size). He's also very fuzzy.

And for that matter my 3 year old son is also "masculine". He climbs, jumps off things, grunts, tries to talk in a growly man voice, etc. He's just much more physical and tough than his sisters (and trust me, I don't predisposition girls to be extra "girly").

**Although I don't know. Maybe we are still better off not defining it. If we define it as a personality then that leaves out those men who are sensitive, vulnerable, and cuddly and implies men should suppress their feelings, etc, which is also an unfortunate thing in our society.

It's probably a lost in translation sort of thing but that description does your hubby no favors. It's very important to know when to avoid confrontation and to have the confidence to back down when there's good reason to. Your choice of words makes poor hubby seem like a cartoon character 'alpha' male. Lol! It's the balance of the masculine/feminine in all of us that makes us able to function. A guy who never avoids confrontation ends up in hospital or jail , a woman who is too submissive allows herself or her kids to be taken advantage of. So each of us has to have a mix of the 'masculine' and 'feminine' if we want to call it that.

To add to your last paragraph I would say those characteristics can and do exist together with the aformentioned 'masculine' characteristics in most men. It's not an either or and that's why labels and boxes do us all a disservice. A strong, physical, 'macho' guy can come home and be vulnerable with his family and cry over his ill mama and cuddle his spouse and not be an ounce less masculine and a woman can be confident , take charge and take no BS (I don't think dominance is a good trait in anyone) and still extend 'feminine' empathy to her staff, nurture her family, cry at TV shows, be kind and tender hearted.

We're all shades of grey;-)

I was avoiding the use of the word "alpha" (because there's some huge douch canoes on the board that claim to be) but it's true, it is a pretty good description of him. He doesn't avoid confrontation, and doesn't back down but he isn't cruel, mean or violent. He doesn't pick fights, and hasn't gotten into any since he was a young man. People tend to respect him and like him, sometimes looking to him for leadership. He very kind and loving and even romantic (he actually likes Valentine's Day which I wish he didn't). He's more the "leader" type of alpha, not the "bully" type which are two different things, and I don't really think the "bully" type is really an "alpha", just some one who wants to be. Maybe "dominant" was the wrong word to us. And I am most definitely NOT submissive. He doesn't control me in anyway.

I applaud you for staying away from that word. As a guy, I feel that the alpha-beta thing we're so obsessed with is absolute nonsense. And, I must say, the description of your husband did not sound anything like the negative (yet unfortunately celebrated by today's society) alpha-bad-boy tool archetype that many claim is a "real man" when it actually is not. Clearly, he is not that, but is something a whole lot better...in fact, he sounds like what I strive to be.

BusyRaeNOTBusty

Well thank you. I obviously like him. A lot. Of course he's not perfect (he can be a moody *****) but he tries really hard to be a good person.

Boogage

Bump to read later

arabellaflagg

Yep he sounds much better now! Lol!
I too hate the alpha-beta thing but your first description made him sound so one dimentional (to me), that I couldn't think of a better word- maybe I should have used hyper-masculine.
Your new set of adjectives show he really is a shade of grey - kindness , romance being a good spouse are just as 'masculine' to me and I wish we told guys that more often. Maybe it would help combat the alpha-beta nonsense that as you say produces douchcanoes (great description)!!

I suppose the biggest problem is that if masculine = dominant then feminine = submissive, masculine= confidence then feminine= no confidence if we follow the binary. I have a niece and nephew and take care of them quite a bit. The parents are unfortunately not the best example for them so I do my best to try and instill values and this is one that's hard to navigate.

chrisdavey

HTH

mayflowermn

Yes. I completely agree with this. If I had to choose a fitness pro whose body is close to what I'm trying to achieve, it would be Camille LeBlanc-Bazinet. And I've had guys tell me, upon seeing her picture, that her arms are too big. Too big for what? Her arms support the work she does. It's not like she went out and tried to get huge arms. That's just what happens when you do what she does. Is she supposed to not do something she's great at because it might give her arms that some people think are "too big?" That's ridiculous.

By the way, here is Camille, for those who don't know who I'm talking about:

It's going to take me a bit of time to be comfortable with the arm definition I have uncovered since I have been losing weight . My arms are looking quite a lot like hers and I must admit that I am not used to looking so muscular. She doesn't look bad it's just not what I am used to seeing when I look in the mirror.

First given all the "attitude" most women seem to have about any sort of muscle definition, it is very comforting to read the comments posted here and to see a woman like Camille LeBlanc-Bazinet.

Second, I feel the same way as you, Koldnomore, when I see myself in the mirrors at the gym. Even though they've been that way for a year, the definition in my arms still makes me pause and I wonder if the other women in the gym think I'm a "freak " or that it's so "unfeminine" or "gross". I love my arms simply because it shows the dedication and hard work that I have put into my body. I love feeling strong and looking that I am strong.

I wish my legs would follow suit, but I know they are getting better and that it's a matter of me cleaning up my diet. I always fall off the proverbial wagon on the weekends! Damn my love of craft beers!

Really great thread and thank you Ascrit for sharing the article!

liesevanlingen

I'm not either bulky OR beautifully defined like Camille, but I'm still a lot stronger than I look. I work at the customer service desk at Walmart and I constantly used to hear things like "You can't lift that, wait for one of the guys to do it for you" about used car batteries, 50 lb containers of litter, huge bags of rice or birdseed, 30lb barbells, etc. Of course, this means that I pick it up and walk away with it immediately. My co-workers don't say that to me anymore. Especially after one of them asked if I could lift her--and I did.

So you don't have to get "bulky" or even exceptionally muscular, to be strong.

1pandabear

Yup, I have the right to take up space. I have the right to be powerful. I have the right to be able to defend myself, and viciously defend myself against sexual and physical violence.

I also agree with the article that "feminine" and "masculine" are BS terms that defy definition. Anyone who hurls "unfeminine" at me as an insult can kindly suck my left hazelnut.

It's about time someone said that. Absolutely.

1pandabear

I used to be afraid of lifting because I "didn't want to look bullky." What changed my mind was shifting the focus away from what my body looks like, and instead seting my goals based on what I wanted my body to DO. Initially, I wanted to be able to do just one pull-up. Achieving that goal taught me how empowering strength can be. After three years of powerlifting and half a year of Olympic weightlifting, some people might think I look "bulky"... But I really don't care what they think, because I take a 100+ lb. barbell from the floor and toss it over my head and they can't.

I think it's a good idea for anyone just getting into fitness to try setting goals this way: what do I want my body to do? It doesn't have to be strength related: your goal could be "running a mile," or something as simple as "walk up a flight of stairs without feeling short of breath." But I've found that the "looking good" part comes very easily if you focus on "what can I do?" rather than "what do I look like?"

Awesome first post! :drinker:

This bears repeating.

mank32

tagged for later hero worsh- i mean research. yeah.