Explain diets that don't count calories to me
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I lost 30 pounds on Atkins within several months, and did minimal amount of exercise. It was easy. No calorie counting, just carb counting. And, I felt fine. At first, I peed on a stick once in a while to see if I was in "ketosis" -- burning fat for energy. Atkins professes this happens due to the loss of carbs in your diet, and the body has to burn fat for energy. After a while, I knew when I was in ketosis, because your breath smells a certain way. My coworker was sure I was killing myself with the diet. I haven't see any studies to tell me this is dangerous (though I haven't looked since I quit Atkins several years ago). I stopped Atkins because ... I don't remember why. I think I just slowly started eating more and more carbs, and then I started gaining the weight back.
So, while I don't think the Atkins diet is bad, I also don't think it taught me how to eat a proper portion. I could literally eat whatever I wanted as long as it wasn't a carb, and I was fine. You have to be really strict, though, if you want to burn fat through ketosis. I don't know about the calorie deficit thing. Maybe I was running a calorie deficit, but man, I was eating a lot of high-fat stuff -- all the cheese and salami and eggs and bacon I wanted. I'd have a HUGE salad almost every day for lunch, with eggs, salami, lots of high-fat dressing. I'd have to say if I ate that same way now, I'd easily go over my calorie goal.0 -
Low carb diets work simply because it is harder (though absolutely not impossible) to eat a calorie surplus on one plus the high protein and fat helps with satiety which helps stick with the diet.It's not reducing the carbs, per se, that is causing the weight loss. . . it is the reduction of calories. In the second example, those calories just happen to be from carbs.
Or. . . you know. . . can just be my mother, try a low carb diet and think that you can seriously increase your consumption of cheese, bacon, sausage and start to use massive amounts of creamy dressings on your many salads and wonder why you're now gaining weight. Because again: it's not the reduction of a particular food group, it's the reduction or calories that causes weight loss.
This is a prime example of why low-carb diets tend to not be sustainable. Either people give in and go back to the foods they miss or they substitute calorie-dense low-carb foods for the calorie-dense high-carb foods they no longer eat.
Trust me - a whole rack of baby-back ribs with no BBQ sauce is like 1200 calories. That is like 70% of my deficit calorie load.0 -
Unless you know how many calories you are eating and using, I don't think you can really lose weight on any diet though.
This is not true. Many people lose weight without ever counting calories. They simply eat less than they were eating while gaining weight. It's possible to tell how many calories you need simply by whether you are losing, maintaining or gaining weight.
I kept my weight in check for many years without weighing anything (including myself) or counting calories. If my jeans got tight, I ate less until they fit right again.
I agree - my mum and brother have lost weight on Slimming World, without counting calories per se. Basically, in a calorie counting diet such as MFP, you find your own way to feel full on e.g. 1500 calories per day. You start from the very theoretical background to dieting, and work up. You tweak your own numbers until it works for you, and it's very trial and error. However, the SW, WW etc. do the hard work for you - they do the calorie counting and assesment of nutritional value etc., and offer you a diet structure, rather than a diet theory from which to build your own structure. Their structure leads to a diet that is broadly speaking in deficit, even if the dieter doesn't actually realise this is the case.
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I wasn't really refering to WW or SW either. I know nothing of SW, but WW is calorie counting of a sort. It just uses points instead of the actual calorie count.
I was refering to people who don't use any formalized system for weight control. Who just use nothing other than their body, the mirror and clothing as a guide.0 -
How do diets like Atkins work if you're not counting calories? I don't think everyone that has followed it has been a flat out failure - otherwise the products wouldn't sell. Since weightloss seems to be all about calories in < calories out, how does weightloss happen if you're not counting calories?
(No I'm not interested in trying Atkins. I need my carbs. This is just pure curiosity.)
Low carb diets are very satiating for many people. If you only eat when you're hungry and you're only eating satiating foods, you naturally tend to consume fewer calories throughout the day. Compare that to someone who's used to snacking on sweets and candy which spike their blood sugar, triggering their appetite a couple of hours later. It's very possible to feel more satiated on less calories and that's what low carb diet plans rely on.
Of course, even programs like Atkins recognize that not everyone can lose weight this way and suggest that, if that's the case, you should be counting your calories in addition to your carbs each day. But many people find they can lose weight simply by switching to more satiating foods.0 -
i didn't read all the responses. to the OP, there is a thing called mindful eating. you don't count calories or anything else. you listen to your body and what it is telling you. you eat until you are satisfied, then stop eating until the next time you are hungry. It is the way babies eat and most kids. you eat whatever you want, you just need to make sure to pay attention to your body's hunger and satisfaction signals.0
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i didn't read all the responses. to the OP, there is a thing called mindful eating. you don't count calories or anything else. you listen to your body and what it is telling you. you eat until you are satisfied, then stop eating until the next time you are hungry. It is the way babies eat and most kids. you eat whatever you want, you just need to make sure to pay attention to your body's hunger and satisfaction signals.
This does work for some people, however, hunger signals are more complex than just signalling when you are really hungry. Hormones play a role in hunger. Timing plays a role. Even what you eat plays a role. Exercise can play a role.
Eating too little can affect hunger signals. Often people suffering from anorexia do not feel hungry even though they are literally starving. Some people who are obese are constantly hungry even though they do not need to eat.0 -
i didn't read all the responses. to the OP, there is a thing called mindful eating. you don't count calories or anything else. you listen to your body and what it is telling you. you eat until you are satisfied, then stop eating until the next time you are hungry. It is the way babies eat and most kids. you eat whatever you want, you just need to make sure to pay attention to your body's hunger and satisfaction signals.
Babies and children can become overweight from overeating. Usually from being fed as consolation. Humans can learn to take comfort from food at a very young age.
This is also not the description of mindful eating that I am familiar with, which probably means it's just another diet term that has lost meaning.0 -
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How do diets like Atkins work if you're not counting calories? I don't think everyone that has followed it has been a flat out failure - otherwise the products wouldn't sell. Since weightloss seems to be all about calories in < calories out, how does weightloss happen if you're not counting calories?
(No I'm not interested in trying Atkins. I need my carbs. This is just pure curiosity.)
Instead of burning calories it makes your body burn fat. Your body usually burns carbs for energy. When you cut your carbs then your body has to find a new source of energy. It starts burning fat instead. If you google it I'm sure you could get a better understanding of how it works.0 -
Something I found really interesting about Atkins is that in the mid-2000s when it first became really popular many people lost a lot of weight on it. Then food companies cottoned on to the opportunity to provide Atkins-compliant foods and it stopped being the miracle diet. The thing that changed was that the available range of foods for people on Atkins increased, therefore so did calorie intake, and the success of the diet overall rapidly declined.
Even on Atkins it is still calories in vs calories out that is the main reason you see weight loss.0 -
How do diets like Atkins work if you're not counting calories? I don't think everyone that has followed it has been a flat out failure - otherwise the products wouldn't sell. Since weightloss seems to be all about calories in < calories out, how does weightloss happen if you're not counting calories?
(No I'm not interested in trying Atkins. I need my carbs. This is just pure curiosity.)
One method..............
A plan like Weight Watchers has you count points (instead of calories)......a "portion" of different foods are assigned a point value. So you are learning portion control....just not exact calorie counts.0 -
Urgh, enough of hating one another's diets.0
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I lost my weight without counting, calories or carbs or anything else. I kept it off without counting for 10 years. I started counting, here a year or so ago, due to hormonal changes. I've stopped counting again.
I focus on building my diet around tasty, nutrient dense foods. I eat lots of high fiber vegetables, proteins, dairy, fruit, some grains (quinoa, 100%whole wheat when my tummy allows it...), snacks with very little added sugar...and to drink, tea, water, coffee, wine...
No counting calories. no counting carbs.
How did I lose weight? I created a calorie deficit. FOR ME, that was easier eating as described above.
As I've said many times: everyone has to figure out how this works best for them, for me, creating the deficit while eating intuitively, and being mindful of what I was eating worked for me. Still does.
As others have said, folks lost weight before calorie counting.
Do whatever works for you.
I did count here for a bit, and do check in with the app when I'm trying something new to see if it fits my way of eating,and to help me make wise choices at restaurants.0 -
Sure. This is in line with the whole "low fat" craze that got so many folks fat. Low fat cookies still have a ton of calories...Something I found really interesting about Atkins is that in the mid-2000s when it first became really popular many people lost a lot of weight on it. Then food companies cottoned on to the opportunity to provide Atkins-compliant foods and it stopped being the miracle diet. The thing that changed was that the available range of foods for people on Atkins increased, therefore so did calorie intake, and the success of the diet overall rapidly declined.
Even on Atkins it is still calories in vs calories out that is the main reason you see weight loss.0 -
Low carb diets like Atkins by necessity force you to eat more protein and fat, both of which are very satiating, so people naturally eat less. Plus low carb diets deplete water storage in the body, resulting in more perceived loss than is actually occurring.
All diets should deplete storage because they all encourage you to drink an adequate amount of water (something almost no-one does until they are dieting I think.;) )
I did atkins 3 years back and lost 45 pounds and it worked well for me at the time. The people who mention how protiens and fat sate you are correct. it's quite easy to feel full, and the recipes on the atkins website in general are pretty good (and low calorie actually) I gained back the weight though a number of things (drinking too much beer, too many sweets which are everywhere at work and a weakness and quitting smoking) I started on atkins again this time but have decided to go thios route after 5 weeks of Atkins. Atkins was easier to follow to be honest , but this is working better for me overall. there are studies showing more weight loss at 3 and 6 months on low carb (atkins/paleo etc) but equal at the 12 month time frame. I think for the long term retraining myself the calorie counting way will be more effective.0 -
the same thing happens on calorie counting, you need a deficit to have this kick in - the deficit in atkins comes from following the recipes and recommendations which are fat/protein heavy and make you feel full, but really are creating a deficit.0
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Just throwing this out there eddie but there's absolutely no reason you can't do both. If you're counting your carbs accurately, you're already weighing and logging all of your food. Particularly on Atkins where you're supposed to reintroduce carbs gradually into your diet, you already need to have an accurate food log in order to follow the plan successfully. And, if you already have a food log, there's really no reason you can't watch your protein macro and your total calories for the day as well. While Dr. Atkins didn't specifically advocate counting calories for everyone (although he does suggest it for people not seeing weight loss simply by eating low carb foods), there's absolutely nothing wrong with basically doing an IIFYM while on a low carb diet.0
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Urgh, enough of hating one another's diets.
It isn't 'hating', it's understanding how they work. If you understand calories in < calories out, and some of the psychology/physiology behind the fad diets, then you can pick a diet or engineer a diet that works well for you, and make adjustments as you need. It benefits no one to believe they're losing weight (or doing anything else) as a result of something that does nothing for you.0 -
All diets should deplete storage because they all encourage you to drink an adequate amount of water (something almost no-one does until they are dieting I think.;) )
What?? :huh:0 -
Urgh, enough of hating one another's diets.
It isn't 'hating', it's understanding how they work. If you understand calories in < calories out, and some of the psychology/physiology behind the fad diets, then you can pick a diet or engineer a diet that works well for you, and make adjustments as you need. It benefits no one to believe they're losing weight (or doing anything else) as a result of something that does nothing for you.
Exactly. Heaven forbid people actually discuss different ideas.0 -
I did a low carb diet after I was diagnosed with diabetes. It helped lower my blood sugar. I lost 50lbs without counting calories. I gained most of it back due to using birth control and depression.0
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Curious how you define "fad diets"?Urgh, enough of hating one another's diets.
It isn't 'hating', it's understanding how they work. If you understand calories in < calories out, and some of the psychology/physiology behind the fad diets, then you can pick a diet or engineer a diet that works well for you, and make adjustments as you need. It benefits no one to believe they're losing weight (or doing anything else) as a result of something that does nothing for you.0 -
I don't believe Atkins dieters are losing weight because of calories in vs. calories out. I believe there's a different metabolism at work.
Before you start beating me with the energy-equation-orthodoxy stick, you should know that I am a firm believer in counting calories. It works for me... I've lost 90 lbs and kept it off for over 2 years now. I've been consistently logging for over 3 years and plan to keep to a calorie budget for the rest of my life.
But in 1996 I got on Atkins and lost a great deal of weight eating a lot of fatty foods. Though I didn't count the calories I ate, looking back with what I know now I see that it was well over the 2000 per day recommended limit. I had fatty sausage and eggs with butter for breakfast, bunless double cheeseburgers with a full-fat mayo dip for lunch, salads with plenty of ranch dressing, cheese cubes, and ham, and full-fat cheese and pork rinds as snacks. I avoided starch and sugar religiously and generally kept within a 20-30 carbs per day limit.
According to the calorie theory I should have been gaining weight, but I was losing it and I kept it off for over a year.
What is the explanation? I'm not sure... I'm sure Lustig is sure of his explanations, but he's a head case so I'd prefer to say some process not yet completely understood governs the management of the energy sources in the body.
I did eventually go off Atkins and gained all my weight back. Why? I can't say whether the fault lies with the diet or myself. I do know that it's a real battle in a world that doesn't get it. In 1996 almost no one got it. Also while falling off the wagon can happen with any diet, I think low carb is less forgiving because it really doesn't take a lot of starch & sugar to throw you out of ketosis.0 -
How do diets like Atkins work if you're not counting calories? I don't think everyone that has followed it has been a flat out failure - otherwise the products wouldn't sell. Since weightloss seems to be all about calories in < calories out, how does weightloss happen if you're not counting calories?
(No I'm not interested in trying Atkins. I need my carbs. This is just pure curiosity.)
Atkins is a bad example, I think. My mom gained weight on it because meat has calories.0 -
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I think the most interesting aspect from a lot of the people who lost weight from low carb diets is that they all gained weight when carbs were introduced significantly in their diets. Weight-loss was effortless when carbohydrates only comprised of less than 25% of their caloric intake. Weight gained occurred when carbohydrates started to make up 50% or more of their diet.
I think calorie counting is necessary when you have a diet that is 50+% carbs. Calorie counting is a nice to have, but not required when carbs make-up for less than 25+% of your diet.
In the end, it all comes down to what works for you.0 -
I lost weight at the start without counting calories. Australian government had a "swap it" campaign on TV - eg. Switch to whole grain food, swap soda for water, get off the couch and play with your kids, leave the car at home and walk your kids to school etc. etc I decided WTH? Try it. I found with whole foods my portions got smaller but also I'd experiment with smaller portions of takeaway etc and found I could survive that lol. At a deficit but not sure how much. I walked 1/2hr per day. Lost 32lbs roughly and steadily until hubs bought me a smartphone the next Xmas then I found Mfp. Sometimes I wish I'd never found Mfp though tbh. On the other hand, I do also wonder how much further I'd have gone without counting calories. I was enjoying the thought of getting better nutrition and setting a better example for my kids which I feel is sustainable and still motivates me.
The best thing about Mfp and why I'm still here is my friends but everything else has been a see saw of love/hate.0 -
I don't believe Atkins dieters are losing weight because of calories in vs. calories out. I believe there's a different metabolism at work.
Before you start beating me with the energy-equation-orthodoxy stick, you should know that I am a firm believer in counting calories. It works for me... I've lost 90 lbs and kept it off for over 2 years now. I've been consistently logging for over 3 years and plan to keep to a calorie budget for the rest of my life.
But in 1996 I got on Atkins and lost a great deal of weight eating a lot of fatty foods. Though I didn't count the calories I ate, looking back with what I know now I see that it was well over the 2000 per day recommended limit. I had fatty sausage and eggs with butter for breakfast, bunless double cheeseburgers with a full-fat mayo dip for lunch, salads with plenty of ranch dressing, cheese cubes, and ham, and full-fat cheese and pork rinds as snacks. I avoided starch and sugar religiously and generally kept within a 20-30 carbs per day limit.
According to the calorie theory I should have been gaining weight, but I was losing it and I kept it off for over a year.
What is the explanation? I'm not sure... I'm sure Lustig is sure of his explanations, but he's a head case so I'd prefer to say some process not yet completely understood governs the management of the energy sources in the body.
I did eventually go off Atkins and gained all my weight back. Why? I can't say whether the fault lies with the diet or myself. I do know that it's a real battle in a world that doesn't get it. In 1996 almost no one got it. Also while falling off the wagon can happen with any diet, I think low carb is less forgiving because it really doesn't take a lot of starch & sugar to throw you out of ketosis.
That was my experience.
Looking back at it, it's possible that I had a calorie deficit. At the same time, I truly believe that the diet burned fat much more efficiently than a calorie deficit with regular carb intake.0 -
So it's no longer calories in, calories out?I think the most interesting aspect from a lot of the people who lost weight from low carb diets is that they all gained weight when carbs were introduced significantly in their diets. Weight-loss was effortless when carbohydrates only comprised of less than 25% of their caloric intake. Weight gained occurred when carbohydrates started to make up 50% or more of their diet.
I think calorie counting is necessary when you have a diet that is 50+% carbs. Calorie counting is a nice to have, but not required when carbs make-up for less than 25+% of your diet.
In the end, it all comes down to what works for you.0 -
Calorie counting is a nice to have, but not required when carbs make-up for less than 25+% of your diet.
It's absurd to think that if it's protein or fats that suddenly excess calories are ok. Like I said, my mom gained weight when she tried Atkins.0
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