Building muscle vs. building strength? same thing?

girlschmoopie

This is the most helpful thread evarrrrrr.

I'm SO GLAD this is helpful to someone other than me! I've had these questions brewing in my brain for about three weeks before finally deciding to ask this morning!

juliemouse83

bumping for later

girlschmoopie

Ok so.. there is that whole "muscle burns more at rest than fat does... increased metabolism" thing. You are eating at a deficit and lifting, therefore making the muscle you already have stronger. Does that rule still apply? Or does your metabolism only increase by building new muscle? Just curious...

VERY GOOD QUESTION!!! I'm watching for the answer from our more experienced lifters too!

girlschmoopie

some people train specifically for hypertrophy. say for instance actors that need to bulk up for a role. sure, they're strong, but they look a lot stronger than they actually are.

Very interesting. So the assumption that bulky muscles always = strength would be a bad one to make, yes?

never assume anything about anybody. That fat guy at your gym may be a competition power lifter.

And it's a fallacy that body builders aren't strong- they just are not strong like power lifters. But not- big muscles doesn't always mean pure strength- but don't kid yourself- real body builders move iron- and a lot of it.

There's a difference between "body builders" and "power lifters" ?

I try to not assume, but I do always seek clarity.

body builders- build- for the stage- they have their own strengths- but it's for atheistic- they are competing in what they look like as far as muscular development/definition/balance.

Power lifts- who lifts more weight cleanly. period. You are judged on if it was a legal lift and if you lifted more than the other guy.

2 completely different sports- but some people do both.

Again, VERY help explanation! Thank you!

JoRocka

some people train specifically for hypertrophy. say for instance actors that need to bulk up for a role. sure, they're strong, but they look a lot stronger than they actually are.

Very interesting. So the assumption that bulky muscles always = strength would be a bad one to make, yes?

It would, yes. Although those guys who pack tons of muscle are rarely weak and likely could see great gains in strength if they decided to direct their training to improve it. There's actually a whole YouTube series called "Nice body; now what can you do with it?" where a bodybuilder trains alongside powerlifters and weightlifters and xfitters to see how his chiseled physique actually performs. Pretty interesting.

If strength = muscle directly, you'd never have guys deadlifting 800 lbs at 181 lbs bodyweight. The bigger man would always be stronger. This isn't always the case.

someone posted Bro's VS Pro's clip- would like to go back and watch it- it's definitely interesting watching the two work next to each other.

315 for reps on bench- I think I only watched the power lifters- highest was 16 reps I Think.(I THINK- because it was 17 minutes- and I only had like 6 to watch) but it's pretty interesting.

The thing is that you can't just assume one or the other- and think one is better- they just train for 2 different things- so their 'strength's' will be two different things.

Fred Hatfield vs Tom Platz Tom CRUSHED Fred at reps- smoked him with 20+- Fred's got a significantly higher squat than Tom did.

(also- we are talking about real body builders and real power lifters here- not the mirror muscle curl bro' guys)

girlschmoopie

Okay, I have to move on with my day (as much as I would LOVE to keep learning!) but I will be back later to see what else is said here...

Have a great day everyone & thanks for all your help!

Fithealthyforlife

Ok so.. there is that whole "muscle burns more at rest than fat does... increased metabolism" thing. You are eating at a deficit and lifting, therefore making the muscle you already have stronger. Does that rule still apply? Or does your metabolism only increase by building new muscle? Just curious...

VERY GOOD QUESTION!!! I'm watching for the answer from our more experienced lifters too!

I was trying to find studies telling how much energy a pound of fat versus a pound of muscle burns in a day if you're not moving a lot. (We're talking not during exercise.)

I read that a pound of fat burns about 6 kcal a day.

As for muscle, they used to think it was 100-150 kcal per day, but it turned out to be an outrageously high number, and they're saying it's closer to 12 kcal actually. That's good news, because can you imagine having to eat an extra 150 calories for every new pound of muscle you add, for your whole life...just to maintain it...let alone add more?

Phiallis

As people have pointed out, the strength gains you've seen are likely to be CNS gains rather than muscle strength.
Bear in mind also that you have lost weight, and that you are performing exercises where the resistance is provided by your own bodyweight.
Thus even though you may seem comparatively stronger, you might have actually not build any muscle or strength at all, and that you could even have lost muscle mass. The exercises just seem easier because you're not as heavy!

Capt_Apollo

reminds me of a joke.


a power lifter is someone to fat to be a body builder.

a body builder is someone to weak to be a power lifter.

stevencloser

Bottom line is:

-You can build muscle only, strength only, or both. Usually, some of both goes together.

Can't.
You inadvertently get strength gains when going for hypertrophy and vice versa. You can maximize one or the other, but you can't just do one without getting any of the other.

Not that I know of anyone who would want to only have big muscles without strength or strength with twig-like arms.

JoRocka

Bottom line is:

-You can build muscle only, strength only, or both. Usually, some of both goes together.

Can't.
You inadvertently get strength gains when going for hypertrophy and vice versa. You can maximize one or the other, but you can't just do one without getting any of the other.

Not that I know of anyone who would want to only have big muscles without strength or strength with twig-like arms.

LOL tell that to my muscles.

I was trying to bulk ONLY to be able to gain size to pull a higher dead lift. My numbers have gone down. I think I'm getting fatter and weaker doing all this stupid hypertrophy crap.

stupid 8 reps. it's 3-5 reps to many!

mhankosk

Ok so.. there is that whole "muscle burns more at rest than fat does... increased metabolism" thing. You are eating at a deficit and lifting, therefore making the muscle you already have stronger. Does that rule still apply? Or does your metabolism only increase by building new muscle? Just curious...

VERY GOOD QUESTION!!! I'm watching for the answer from our more experienced lifters too!

I was trying to find studies telling how much energy a pound of fat versus a pound of muscle burns in a day if you're not moving a lot. (We're talking not during exercise.)

I read that a pound of fat burns about 6 kcal a day.

As for muscle, they used to think it was 100-150 kcal per day, but it turned out to be an outrageously high number, and they're saying it's closer to 12 kcal actually. That's good news, because can you imagine having to eat an extra 150 calories for every new pound of muscle you add, for your whole life...just to maintain it...let alone add more?

Doesn't really answer the question but thanks for the info! That's really interesting!

firstsip

In for info.

girlschmoopie

As people have pointed out, the strength gains you've seen are likely to be CNS gains rather than muscle strength.
Bear in mind also that you have lost weight, and that you are performing exercises where the resistance is provided by your own bodyweight.
Thus even though you may seem comparatively stronger, you might have actually not build any muscle or strength at all, and that you could even have lost muscle mass. The exercises just seem easier because you're not as heavy!

To clarify, you think my increased strength is a trick of my CNS, and my little loss of roughly 10# is making my exercises easier? Am I understanding correctly that, even though I have progressed to lifting heavier dumbbells that it isn't really increasing my strength?

I hope you are wrong. I feel completely deflated by your post.

girlschmoopie

Ok so.. there is that whole "muscle burns more at rest than fat does... increased metabolism" thing. You are eating at a deficit and lifting, therefore making the muscle you already have stronger. Does that rule still apply? Or does your metabolism only increase by building new muscle? Just curious...

VERY GOOD QUESTION!!! I'm watching for the answer from our more experienced lifters too!

I was trying to find studies telling how much energy a pound of fat versus a pound of muscle burns in a day if you're not moving a lot. (We're talking not during exercise.)

I read that a pound of fat burns about 6 kcal a day.

As for muscle, they used to think it was 100-150 kcal per day, but it turned out to be an outrageously high number, and they're saying it's closer to 12 kcal actually. That's good news, because can you imagine having to eat an extra 150 calories for every new pound of muscle you add, for your whole life...just to maintain it...let alone add more?

Thanks! I know I have heard similar things, but it is all Greek to me.

girlschmoopie

reminds me of a joke.


a power lifter is someone to fat to be a body builder.

a body builder is someone to weak to be a power lifter.

Thanks, I needed the smile that came with reading your post.

Huffdogg

As for muscle, they used to think it was 100-150 kcal per day, but it turned out to be an outrageously high number, and they're saying it's closer to 12 kcal actually. That's good news, because can you imagine having to eat an extra 150 calories for every new pound of muscle you add, for your whole life...just to maintain it...let alone add more?

You say "having to."
I think "getting to."

Huffdogg

reminds me of a joke.


a power lifter is someone to fat to be a body builder.

a body builder is someone to weak to be a power lifter.

LOL

sbarella

Bump for later. I'm not into bulking but it's supah-interesting.

Huffdogg

Ok so.. there is that whole "muscle burns more at rest than fat does... increased metabolism" thing. You are eating at a deficit and lifting, therefore making the muscle you already have stronger. Does that rule still apply? Or does your metabolism only increase by building new muscle? Just curious...

Your BMR will not increase due to favorable CNS adaptations. Only increased body mass will increase your BMR. Is that what you're asking?

Huffdogg

As people have pointed out, the strength gains you've seen are likely to be CNS gains rather than muscle strength.
Bear in mind also that you have lost weight, and that you are performing exercises where the resistance is provided by your own bodyweight.
Thus even though you may seem comparatively stronger, you might have actually not build any muscle or strength at all, and that you could even have lost muscle mass. The exercises just seem easier because you're not as heavy!

To clarify, you think my increased strength is a trick of my CNS, and my little loss of roughly 10# is making my exercises easier? Am I understanding correctly that, even though I have progressed to lifting heavier dumbbells that it isn't really increasing my strength?

I hope you are wrong. I feel completely deflated by your post.

I'm not sure why this would be deflating you. You lost weight AND got stronger. Yes, bodyweight exercises will get easier as you 1. train with progressive overload and 2. get lighter. You're getting stronger AND lighter. That's basic math. But there's nothing to be upset about here. You're accomplishing two worthy goals simultaneously, which is MUCH harder than getting stronger while gaining weight (or getting weaker while losing it).

JoRocka

As people have pointed out, the strength gains you've seen are likely to be CNS gains rather than muscle strength.
Bear in mind also that you have lost weight, and that you are performing exercises where the resistance is provided by your own bodyweight.
Thus even though you may seem comparatively stronger, you might have actually not build any muscle or strength at all, and that you could even have lost muscle mass. The exercises just seem easier because you're not as heavy!

To clarify, you think my increased strength is a trick of my CNS, and my little loss of roughly 10# is making my exercises easier? Am I understanding correctly that, even though I have progressed to lifting heavier dumbbells that it isn't really increasing my strength?

I hope you are wrong. I feel completely deflated by your post.

I'm not sure why this would be deflating you. You lost weight AND got stronger. Yes, bodyweight exercises will get easier as you 1. train with progressive overload and 2. get lighter. You're getting stronger AND lighter. That's basic math. But there's nothing to be upset about here. You're accomplishing two worthy goals simultaneously, which is MUCH harder than getting stronger while gaining weight (or getting weaker while losing it).

Troof.

It's not a trick. it is what it is. Dont' be deflated- becoming a more awesome version of you happens in many stages. You're on the right track!!!

mhankosk

Ok so.. there is that whole "muscle burns more at rest than fat does... increased metabolism" thing. You are eating at a deficit and lifting, therefore making the muscle you already have stronger. Does that rule still apply? Or does your metabolism only increase by building new muscle? Just curious...

Your BMR will not increase due to favorable CNS adaptations. Only increased body mass will increase your BMR. Is that what you're asking?

No... I am trying to lose weight.. My question in different terms: Does "stronger" muscle burn more calories at rest than a weaker muscle. Or does muscle burn the same regardless of how "strong" it is?

Huffdogg

Ok so.. there is that whole "muscle burns more at rest than fat does... increased metabolism" thing. You are eating at a deficit and lifting, therefore making the muscle you already have stronger. Does that rule still apply? Or does your metabolism only increase by building new muscle? Just curious...

Your BMR will not increase due to favorable CNS adaptations. Only increased body mass will increase your BMR. Is that what you're asking?

No... I am trying to lose weight.. My question in different terms: Does "stronger" muscle burn more calories at rest than a weaker muscle. Or does muscle burn the same regardless of how "strong" it is?

I thought that was what you were asking, and I answered it. To be clearer: no, strength does not change your calorie burn.

loriemn

bumping to watch

minizebu

There's actually a whole YouTube series called "Nice body; now what can you do with it?" where a bodybuilder trains alongside powerlifters and weightlifters and xfitters to see how his chiseled physique actually performs. Pretty interesting.

Thanks for posting about this series. I just watched the first few minutes of the bodybuilding vs. powerlifting episode (part 8, I think).

Anyway, I'm bumping this thread to keep up with this discussion when I have time to read more later.

OverDoIt

Some peoplehave different muscle fiber makeup and they are incredibly stronger than people much more muscular than them. Unfortunately, these people are very rare and I have witnessed over the years maybe 5 or 6 of them. We are talking about 175lb men with 15" biceps pulling 5 plates for reps on deadlifts. Strength is measured over time for the average human, put in your work and see where this thing takes you. good luck.