Building muscle vs. building strength? same thing?
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Strength training increases the ability of the neurons to do what they need to do to produce stronger muscle contractions. It also improves coordination between muscles which is needed to perform the task. (There was some study where they had people only train one side, and the other side also got stronger. Not as much as the directly-trained side, but also more than nothing.)
(And muscles can get bigger, but strength increases can happen without muscle growth.)
This.
Just saying hi and acknowledging you contribution of agreement. Thanks!0 -
no building strength and building size/bulk are not the same thing
keep in mind rep ranges make a difference
1-5 : strength
5-10: hypertrophy/size
10-20: muscle endurance.
If you are eating at a deficit you are just getting stronger- but not really build SIZE. You can improve the muscle you have- it becomes more dense and stronger- but it's not really going to get bigger.
Most people see newb gainz- but that's a bit different than going for a full bulk.
strength- you can lift more- lift longer- aren't tired- more energy- more efficient.
Building muscle means you are putting on size- like it's actually getting bigger- you're clothes fit differently- (they get to tight in certain areas) and you can MEASURE the difference (meaning- in november- my arms were only 12" now after 4 months of bulk they are 13")
- people often get confused with this because they get more definition- lose some fat- and they get more dense muscle- and think they are bulking- it's not bulk- it's definition.
Helpful?
^this completely.
As a high school starting pitcher, I was told by my pitching coach that I need to build muscle to gain pitch speed. My softball coach sent me to lift with the defensive players on the high school football team. And wow! In 4 months before the season started I added 12 lbs of muscle on my body between the legs and arms. Plus 10 mph on my pitch. During the actual season, I was told to lower the weight considerable and up the rep for endurance because I was "fading" before the game would end. I lost more fat during the season but looked bigger because of definition. I honestly don't know where I was going with this but please please please realize the to look like body builder on tv, those woman have been working no stop for years! You are not going to "BULK" up in 4 months.0 -
some people train specifically for hypertrophy. say for instance actors that need to bulk up for a role. sure, they're strong, but they look a lot stronger than they actually are.
Very interesting. So the assumption that bulky muscles always = strength would be a bad one to make, yes?
never assume anything about anybody. That fat guy at your gym may be a competition power lifter.
And it's a fallacy that body builders aren't strong- they just are not strong like power lifters. But not- big muscles doesn't always mean pure strength- but don't kid yourself- real body builders move iron- and a lot of it.
There's a difference between "body builders" and "power lifters" ?
I try to not assume, but I do always seek clarity.
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some people train specifically for hypertrophy. say for instance actors that need to bulk up for a role. sure, they're strong, but they look a lot stronger than they actually are.
Very interesting. So the assumption that bulky muscles always = strength would be a bad one to make, yes?
It would, yes. Although those guys who pack tons of muscle are rarely weak and likely could see great gains in strength if they decided to direct their training to improve it. There's actually a whole YouTube series called "Nice body; now what can you do with it?" where a bodybuilder trains alongside powerlifters and weightlifters and xfitters to see how his chiseled physique actually performs. Pretty interesting.
If strength = muscle directly, you'd never have guys deadlifting 800 lbs at 181 lbs bodyweight. The bigger man would always be stronger. This isn't always the case.0 -
This is the most helpful thread evarrrrrr.0
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Ok so.. there is that whole "muscle burns more at rest than fat does... increased metabolism" thing. You are eating at a deficit and lifting, therefore making the muscle you already have stronger. Does that rule still apply? Or does your metabolism only increase by building new muscle? Just curious...0
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some people train specifically for hypertrophy. say for instance actors that need to bulk up for a role. sure, they're strong, but they look a lot stronger than they actually are.
Very interesting. So the assumption that bulky muscles always = strength would be a bad one to make, yes?
never assume anything about anybody. That fat guy at your gym may be a competition power lifter.
And it's a fallacy that body builders aren't strong- they just are not strong like power lifters. But not- big muscles doesn't always mean pure strength- but don't kid yourself- real body builders move iron- and a lot of it.
There's a difference between "body builders" and "power lifters" ?
I try to not assume, but I do always seek clarity.
body builders- build- for the stage- they have their own strengths- but it's for atheistic- they are competing in what they look like as far as muscular development/definition/balance.
Power lifts- who lifts more weight cleanly. period. You are judged on if it was a legal lift and if you lifted more than the other guy.
2 completely different sports- but some people do both.0 -
Bottom line is:
-You can build muscle only, strength only, or both. Usually, some of both goes together.
-You can't add bodyweight at a deficit, period. You can only lose weight.
-You can't add bodyweight at true maintenance either.
-It is possible, however, to gain muscle and maintain your body weight at maintenance, but only if you already have a certain level of body fat to catabolize for energy and your diet/recovery are near perfect. It's very slow. But for some people, this is all they want.
Thanks! Your second point definitely adds clarity to the "not building muscle on a deficit" comments I have read. Third point also makes sense to me along those lines.0 -
no building strength and building size/bulk are not the same thing
keep in mind rep ranges make a difference
1-5 : strength
5-10: hypertrophy/size
10-20: muscle endurance.
If you are eating at a deficit you are just getting stronger- but not really build SIZE. You can improve the muscle you have- it becomes more dense and stronger- but it's not really going to get bigger.
Most people see newb gainz- but that's a bit different than going for a full bulk.
strength- you can lift more- lift longer- aren't tired- more energy- more efficient.
Building muscle means you are putting on size- like it's actually getting bigger- you're clothes fit differently- (they get to tight in certain areas) and you can MEASURE the difference (meaning- in november- my arms were only 12" now after 4 months of bulk they are 13")
- people often get confused with this because they get more definition- lose some fat- and they get more dense muscle- and think they are bulking- it's not bulk- it's definition.
Helpful?
^this completely.
As a high school starting pitcher, I was told by my pitching coach that I need to build muscle to gain pitch speed. My softball coach sent me to lift with the defensive players on the high school football team. And wow! In 4 months before the season started I added 12 lbs of muscle on my body between the legs and arms. Plus 10 mph on my pitch. During the actual season, I was told to lower the weight considerable and up the rep for endurance because I was "fading" before the game would end. I lost more fat during the season but looked bigger because of definition. I honestly don't know where I was going with this but please please please realize the to look like body builder on tv, those woman have been working no stop for years! You are not going to "BULK" up in 4 months.
I'm not concerned about bulking, I'm aware of the myths of women and bulking. Thanks for sharing your story!0 -
some people train specifically for hypertrophy. say for instance actors that need to bulk up for a role. sure, they're strong, but they look a lot stronger than they actually are.
Very interesting. So the assumption that bulky muscles always = strength would be a bad one to make, yes?
It would, yes. Although those guys who pack tons of muscle are rarely weak and likely could see great gains in strength if they decided to direct their training to improve it. There's actually a whole YouTube series called "Nice body; now what can you do with it?" where a bodybuilder trains alongside powerlifters and weightlifters and xfitters to see how his chiseled physique actually performs. Pretty interesting.
If strength = muscle directly, you'd never have guys deadlifting 800 lbs at 181 lbs bodyweight. The bigger man would always be stronger. This isn't always the case.
Thanks for your reply, I will look for the youtube videos, it sounds interesting!0 -
I'm SO GLAD this is helpful to someone other than me! I've had these questions brewing in my brain for about three weeks before finally deciding to ask this morning!This is the most helpful thread evarrrrrr.0 -
bumping for later0
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Ok so.. there is that whole "muscle burns more at rest than fat does... increased metabolism" thing. You are eating at a deficit and lifting, therefore making the muscle you already have stronger. Does that rule still apply? Or does your metabolism only increase by building new muscle? Just curious...
VERY GOOD QUESTION!!! I'm watching for the answer from our more experienced lifters too!0 -
some people train specifically for hypertrophy. say for instance actors that need to bulk up for a role. sure, they're strong, but they look a lot stronger than they actually are.
Very interesting. So the assumption that bulky muscles always = strength would be a bad one to make, yes?
never assume anything about anybody. That fat guy at your gym may be a competition power lifter.
And it's a fallacy that body builders aren't strong- they just are not strong like power lifters. But not- big muscles doesn't always mean pure strength- but don't kid yourself- real body builders move iron- and a lot of it.
There's a difference between "body builders" and "power lifters" ?
I try to not assume, but I do always seek clarity.
body builders- build- for the stage- they have their own strengths- but it's for atheistic- they are competing in what they look like as far as muscular development/definition/balance.
Power lifts- who lifts more weight cleanly. period. You are judged on if it was a legal lift and if you lifted more than the other guy.
2 completely different sports- but some people do both.
Again, VERY help explanation! Thank you!0 -
some people train specifically for hypertrophy. say for instance actors that need to bulk up for a role. sure, they're strong, but they look a lot stronger than they actually are.
Very interesting. So the assumption that bulky muscles always = strength would be a bad one to make, yes?
It would, yes. Although those guys who pack tons of muscle are rarely weak and likely could see great gains in strength if they decided to direct their training to improve it. There's actually a whole YouTube series called "Nice body; now what can you do with it?" where a bodybuilder trains alongside powerlifters and weightlifters and xfitters to see how his chiseled physique actually performs. Pretty interesting.
If strength = muscle directly, you'd never have guys deadlifting 800 lbs at 181 lbs bodyweight. The bigger man would always be stronger. This isn't always the case.
someone posted Bro's VS Pro's clip- would like to go back and watch it- it's definitely interesting watching the two work next to each other.
315 for reps on bench- I think I only watched the power lifters- highest was 16 reps I Think.(I THINK- because it was 17 minutes- and I only had like 6 to watch) but it's pretty interesting.
The thing is that you can't just assume one or the other- and think one is better- they just train for 2 different things- so their 'strength's' will be two different things.
Fred Hatfield vs Tom Platz Tom CRUSHED Fred at reps- smoked him with 20+- Fred's got a significantly higher squat than Tom did.
(also- we are talking about real body builders and real power lifters here- not the mirror muscle curl bro' guys)0 -
Okay, I have to move on with my day (as much as I would LOVE to keep learning!) but I will be back later to see what else is said here...
Have a great day everyone & thanks for all your help!0 -
Ok so.. there is that whole "muscle burns more at rest than fat does... increased metabolism" thing. You are eating at a deficit and lifting, therefore making the muscle you already have stronger. Does that rule still apply? Or does your metabolism only increase by building new muscle? Just curious...
VERY GOOD QUESTION!!! I'm watching for the answer from our more experienced lifters too!
I was trying to find studies telling how much energy a pound of fat versus a pound of muscle burns in a day if you're not moving a lot. (We're talking not during exercise.)
I read that a pound of fat burns about 6 kcal a day.
As for muscle, they used to think it was 100-150 kcal per day, but it turned out to be an outrageously high number, and they're saying it's closer to 12 kcal actually. That's good news, because can you imagine having to eat an extra 150 calories for every new pound of muscle you add, for your whole life...just to maintain it...let alone add more?0 -
As people have pointed out, the strength gains you've seen are likely to be CNS gains rather than muscle strength.
Bear in mind also that you have lost weight, and that you are performing exercises where the resistance is provided by your own bodyweight.
Thus even though you may seem comparatively stronger, you might have actually not build any muscle or strength at all, and that you could even have lost muscle mass. The exercises just seem easier because you're not as heavy!0 -
reminds me of a joke.
a power lifter is someone to fat to be a body builder.
a body builder is someone to weak to be a power lifter.0 -
Can't.Bottom line is:
-You can build muscle only, strength only, or both. Usually, some of both goes together.
You inadvertently get strength gains when going for hypertrophy and vice versa. You can maximize one or the other, but you can't just do one without getting any of the other.
Not that I know of anyone who would want to only have big muscles without strength or strength with twig-like arms.0
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