Low-Carb Help!

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  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    Great you've got my email, please feel free to send over the studies that dispute this one.:smile:

    Plus as an added note of course this study would have been financed by some association such as Atkins ( would kelloggs want to conduct such a study).

    Please don't be naive, behind every study there's someone or some organisation with a vested interest.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,020 Member
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    Great you've got my email, please feel free to send over the studies that dispute this one.:smile:
    What are the limitation of that study, there's always some in every study. Do you have the full study. I wonder if the low carb group and the control ate the same amount of total calories and similar protein intake. Lets take a look at this one first.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    As I've added to my post above every study will have its vested interests and will probably direct the study to get the results it wants.

    I'm looking forward to reading the studies you are going to send over disputing the results of this one.

    Cheers
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,020 Member
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    Great you've got my email, please feel free to send over the studies that dispute this one.:smile:

    Plus as an added note of course this study would have been financed by some association such as Atkins ( would kelloggs want to conduct such a study).

    Please don't be naive, behind every study there's someone or some organisation with a vested interest.
    That's why the need to look at more than one study. Atkins of course had an outcome in mind before the study even started. Studies that compare different macronutrient intakes on health markers like cardiovascular disease, lipids etc and body weight without a preconceived outcome from a intented focused study that is out to do just that, support their philosophy may be worth while, unless of course a person would rather not for personal reasons.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    Great send over the ones that dispute low carbs medium too high fat and protein reduce body fat and maintain lean mass and I'll have a thorough read of them.

    Look forward to getting through????
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,020 Member
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    As I've added to my post above every study will have its vested interests and will probably direct the study to get the results it wants.

    I'm looking forward to reading the studies you are going to send over disputing the results of this one.

    Cheers
    http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/83/5/1055.full
    Mean (±SE) weight losses (6.3 ± 0.6 and 7.2 ± 0.8 kg in KLC and NLC dieters, respectively; P = 0.324) and fat losses (3.4 and 5.5 kg in KLC and NLC dieters, respectively; P = 0.111) did not differ significantly by group after 6 wk.
    All food and drink were provided to subjects, and energy intake was strictly controlled.

    The group that consumed 40% carbs as opposed to 5% actually lost more fat mass, which for study pruposes is statistically insignificant, but this study wasn't about weight loss, it's focus was elsewhere.

    Funny how believers need to believe. I find paleo dieters and vegans have much in common in regards to the belief system. I'm sure your not disagreeing that we should look at studies from all sides of the matter?
  • 4realrose8
    4realrose8 Posts: 117 Member
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    If it works for you, if you have more energy, if your skin looks better, if your blood work is improving, if you are losing the fat, then ignore the nay-sayers and follow the low carb plan.

    Everyone's body chemistry and genetics are slightly different. You have to do your own research and ultimately do what works for you.
  • takumaku
    takumaku Posts: 352 Member
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    If it floats your boat, and you like the plan, then who cares. It's your body, your choice, your lifestyle. We are all built differently. What works for one person doesn't necessary work for another. Give me a bag of carrots and greek yogurt, I'm a happy camper. Give me a steak and popcorn, I'm killing over in pain.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    Eats it up - great pun.

    Hey dude I would hope that anyone following primal would do some background themselves - I know I do.

    Plus, show me a diet or a study group that doesn't cherry pick their facts (or come from a bias side)!! In fact almost everyone I see debating on the MFP forums have their own unshakable (and unmoveable) belief in what's true, based on their own opinions from which they have cherry picked research to support.

    That's why I did a fair bit of researching before choosing the primal.

    Does the vast majority of research, particularly tightly controlled trials in which cals and protein are held constant, show any fat loss advantage for low carb diets? And Sisson's beloved Grok ate a high carb diet in the insidious weight gain range of his curve, oops

    Did you know Sisson calls added sugars poisons but adds them to his own protein powders, whoops again

    A supplement manufacturer using added sugar, what next are you going to suggest he uses bulking agents? A revelation like that would rock the very foundations of my belief system.

    You seem to have a real downer on people suggesting low carb (are you secretly the CEO of Kelloggs) You and erickirb look very similar is this one of those conspiracy thing?????

    Just because low carb doesn't suit you doesn't mean it won't suit others. For example I'm not in to line dancing (its a phobia about tassels sort of thing), but I know loads of people that love it (in fact I think Mark Sissons is big line dancer) and I wouldn't suggest to them not to do just because its not my bag.

    By the way a link about a low carb study showing loss of body fat and maintenance of lean mass.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12077732

    http://www.colorado.edu/intphys/Class/IPHY3700_Greene/pdfs/atkins/Volek_diet.pdf

    So self reported intake and didn't control for protein intake? And done by Volek? lol

    What's next the Phinney fat adaptation studies or maybe the A to Z study? lol
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    Thanks for the study. Interesting thing is that as you mentioned In the Atkins study they minipulate the conditions to suit there out come. Well same applys on this one. the study was done based on a sedatury study group. And also based on a low calorie group trying to achieve ketosis.

    As you will know with the primal blue print (I hope you've done your research this time and are not confusing them with Atkins) they promote lean body mass maintanence and an active life style so this study you have provided is not a relative comparison.

    Hopefully you have something more appropriate you can send me.

    Cheers
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    Hey agreed. Different horses for different courses.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,020 Member
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    They were sendentary and the calories were controlled but they weren't primal, ok, gotcha. I'm not sure you know this but paleo isn't necessarily low carb, just that it makes for a good story and something that is recognizable for the masses.......your looking like a believer for sure.......hang around the MDA forums for a while, that should help get you out of is funk pretty quickly. I'm also very familiar with MDA otherwise I wouldn't have made any comment about it.......there's nothing special about being primal.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
    Options
    Eats it up - great pun.

    Hey dude I would hope that anyone following primal would do some background themselves - I know I do.

    Plus, show me a diet or a study group that doesn't cherry pick their facts (or come from a bias side)!! In fact almost everyone I see debating on the MFP forums have their own unshakable (and unmoveable) belief in what's true, based on their own opinions from which they have cherry picked research to support.

    That's why I did a fair bit of researching before choosing the primal.

    Does the vast majority of research, particularly tightly controlled trials in which cals and protein are held constant, show any fat loss advantage for low carb diets? And Sisson's beloved Grok ate a high carb diet in the insidious weight gain range of his curve, oops

    Did you know Sisson calls added sugars poisons but adds them to his own protein powders, whoops again

    A supplement manufacturer using added sugar, what next are you going to suggest he uses bulking agents? A revelation like that would rock the very foundations of my belief system.

    You seem to have a real downer on people suggesting low carb (are you secretly the CEO of Kelloggs) You and erickirb look very similar is this one of those conspiracy thing?????

    Just because low carb doesn't suit you doesn't mean it won't suit others. For example I'm not in to line dancing (its a phobia about tassels sort of thing), but I know loads of people that love it (in fact I think Mark Sissons is big line dancer) and I wouldn't suggest to them not to do just because its not my bag.

    By the way a link about a low carb study showing loss of body fat and maintenance of lean mass.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12077732

    http://www.colorado.edu/intphys/Class/IPHY3700_Greene/pdfs/atkins/Volek_diet.pdf

    So self reported intake and didn't control for protein intake? And done by Volek? lol

    What's next the Phinney fat adaptation studies or maybe the A to Z study? lol

    Have you actually read this report all the way through (I have) at one point they actual mention that they are taking marks protein powder with the added sugar!!!!!

    Thanks for the full report dude, I think it just affirms what I thought I knew.

    If you have any reports which refute the claims that low carb high fat ( with medium protein) promotes body fat loss and maintains lean mass I will be happy to read them.

    Until then maybe ease back on your cursade.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    They were sendentary and the calories were controlled but they weren't primal, ok, gotcha. I'm not sure you know this but paleo isn't necessarily low carb, just that it makes for a good story and something that is recognizable for the masses.......your looking like a believer for sure.......hang around the MDA forums for a while, that should help get you out of is funk pretty quickly. I'm also very familiar with MDA otherwise I wouldn't have made any comment about it.......there's nothing special about being primal.

    Man you seem scarred!
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,020 Member
    Options
    Eats it up - great pun.

    Hey dude I would hope that anyone following primal would do some background themselves - I know I do.

    Plus, show me a diet or a study group that doesn't cherry pick their facts (or come from a bias side)!! In fact almost everyone I see debating on the MFP forums have their own unshakable (and unmoveable) belief in what's true, based on their own opinions from which they have cherry picked research to support.

    That's why I did a fair bit of researching before choosing the primal.

    Does the vast majority of research, particularly tightly controlled trials in which cals and protein are held constant, show any fat loss advantage for low carb diets? And Sisson's beloved Grok ate a high carb diet in the insidious weight gain range of his curve, oops

    Did you know Sisson calls added sugars poisons but adds them to his own protein powders, whoops again

    A supplement manufacturer using added sugar, what next are you going to suggest he uses bulking agents? A revelation like that would rock the very foundations of my belief system.

    You seem to have a real downer on people suggesting low carb (are you secretly the CEO of Kelloggs) You and erickirb look very similar is this one of those conspiracy thing?????

    Just because low carb doesn't suit you doesn't mean it won't suit others. For example I'm not in to line dancing (its a phobia about tassels sort of thing), but I know loads of people that love it (in fact I think Mark Sissons is big line dancer) and I wouldn't suggest to them not to do just because its not my bag.

    By the way a link about a low carb study showing loss of body fat and maintenance of lean mass.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12077732

    http://www.colorado.edu/intphys/Class/IPHY3700_Greene/pdfs/atkins/Volek_diet.pdf

    So self reported intake and didn't control for protein intake? And done by Volek? lol

    What's next the Phinney fat adaptation studies or maybe the A to Z study? lol

    Have you actually read this report all the way through (I have) at one point they actual mention that they are taking marks protein powder with the added sugar!!!!!

    Thanks for the full report dude, I think it just affirms what I thought I knew.

    If you have any reports which refute the claims that low carb high fat ( with medium protein) promotes body fat loss and maintains lean mass I will be happy to read them.

    Until then maybe ease back on your cursade.
    Wait, of course a medium protein intake promotes fat loss and maintains lean body mass. Sorry I thought your stance that the primal diet was somehow better than everything else. Later.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    Have you actually read my previous posts?

    I know One diet doesn't fit all, I have always said the primal blueprint works for me but is not everyone's cup of tea. Different horses for different course.

    All I'm doing is defending it against the ones claiming if is the diet of the devil.

    I am aware that high carb calorie deficit diets work. I'm open to the idea that people should have a choice. It's just that some people on these forums aren't.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,020 Member
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    Have you actually read my previous post?

    I know I diet doesn't fit all, I have always said the primal blueprint works for me but is not everyone's cup of tea. Different horses for different course.

    All I'm doing is defending it against the ones claiming if is the diet of the devil.

    I am aware that high carb calorie deficit diets work. I'm open to the idea that people should have a choice. It's just that some people on these forums aren't.
    I assume your aware Mark advocates adding 100g's of carbs for every hour of exercise. And yes I agree with you that it's a very successful diet and a healthy one if people find that they like the lifestyle, no doubt about it.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
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    The only time I've seen anyone do remotely well long term on a low carb diet in relation to retaining/increasing strength is for those on some additional pharmaceuticals.

    If you are sedentary, have a very low cal target and the majority is taken up by the more important protein and fats then low carb could be a good thing.

    Also, if you are diabetic or insulin resistant lowering carbs can help.

    If you are otherwise healthy, active individual looking to maximize performance then low carb is a dumb idea IMO.

    If you just read taubes, sisson or any other low carb advocates book and blindly believe it then best of luck to you.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
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    I assume your aware Mark advocates adding 100g's of carbs for every hour of exercise.

    Only from sweet potatoes and brown rice? Or white potatoes and white rice?

    37g of carbs in a pop tart. Not far off.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
    Options
    Eats it up - great pun.

    Hey dude I would hope that anyone following primal would do some background themselves - I know I do.

    Plus, show me a diet or a study group that doesn't cherry pick their facts (or come from a bias side)!! In fact almost everyone I see debating on the MFP forums have their own unshakable (and unmoveable) belief in what's true, based on their own opinions from which they have cherry picked research to support.

    That's why I did a fair bit of researching before choosing the primal.

    Does the vast majority of research, particularly tightly controlled trials in which cals and protein are held constant, show any fat loss advantage for low carb diets? And Sisson's beloved Grok ate a high carb diet in the insidious weight gain range of his curve, oops

    Did you know Sisson calls added sugars poisons but adds them to his own protein powders, whoops again

    A supplement manufacturer using added sugar, what next are you going to suggest he uses bulking agents? A revelation like that would rock the very foundations of my belief system.

    You seem to have a real downer on people suggesting low carb (are you secretly the CEO of Kelloggs) You and erickirb look very similar is this one of those conspiracy thing?????

    Just because low carb doesn't suit you doesn't mean it won't suit others. For example I'm not in to line dancing (its a phobia about tassels sort of thing), but I know loads of people that love it (in fact I think Mark Sissons is big line dancer) and I wouldn't suggest to them not to do just because its not my bag.

    By the way a link about a low carb study showing loss of body fat and maintenance of lean mass.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12077732

    http://www.colorado.edu/intphys/Class/IPHY3700_Greene/pdfs/atkins/Volek_diet.pdf

    So self reported intake and didn't control for protein intake? And done by Volek? lol

    What's next the Phinney fat adaptation studies or maybe the A to Z study? lol

    Have you actually read this report all the way through (I have) at one point they actual mention that they are taking marks protein powder with the added sugar!!!!!

    Thanks for the full report dude, I think it just affirms what I thought I knew.

    If you have any reports which refute the claims that low carb high fat ( with medium protein) promotes body fat loss and maintains lean mass I will be happy to read them.

    Until then maybe ease back on your cursade.
    Wait, of course a medium protein intake promotes fat loss and maintains lean body mass. Sorry I thought your stance that the primal diet was somehow better than everything else. Later. Mark also advocates that most people should add 1`00g's of carbs for every hour of exercise........probably not going to see that repeated in the MDA forums too much.

    Just out of interest how long had you eating following the primal blue print before you realised it wasn't for you. Just confirm in day or weeks?

    Also the primal blue print isn't anti carb.

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