PCOS and Soy

fitterpam

I have heard conflicting stories about soy and PCOS. Just thought we could maybe get a discussion going on whether or not soy products (soymilk, soybeans, etc.) should be consumed by women with PCOS. Even the professionals have differing opinions and the results range from it's harmful to its safe - so it's fine if we have differing opinions too. I haven't seen the topic posted before and it's one of those that people might need to make an educated decision for their health. I believe the controversy stems from the fact that there are very few studies that specifically look at the effects of soy on women with PCOS. Here's the most unbiased article I've found on the subject: http://www.pcosnetwork.com/articles/dieting-weightloss/soy-and-pcos-safe-or-harmful/

If you have PCOS, do you make a point of including soy in your diet? Have you noticed anything change since then? Do you avoid it, like me? Why?

Personally, at best, they consider it safe. My hormones are already so messed up that I'd rather not mess with the very delicate balance that I'm building through medications. My hormones affect my weight dramatically - the more fluctations I have, the harder it is to lose weight. My understanding is there is a chemical in soy products that mimics estrogen and since my PCOS focuses on increased estrogen, I've made the personal choice not to include soy products.

Beebee78

I've had PCOS since I can't remember when - after trying every known supposedly helpful diet and tip going after the last 10 years whilst trying to conceive, I can honestly say none helped me in particular. However, we recently changed the way we eat to a paleolithic diet. Now the jury is still 100% out but it looks as though for the first time in 10 years I will have a 28 day cycle. My PMT is much less than it has ever been and many of the symptoms I have associated with PCOS are lessening week on week.

xxx

lotusfromthemud

My doctor has referred to me as "borderline" PCOS...I have some, but not all of the symptoms (I'm difficult that way).

I, too have switched to a paleo diet, and my last ultrasound showed zero (count 'em...zero) cysts. Also, I can now set my watch to my cycle for the first time in years.

I avoid soy and what my naturopath has told me are other similar estrogen mimicking items in my cosmetics: apparently lavender oil and tea tree oil also (according to some) influence estrogen production. I used to use lavender everything (because I love the smell), but since I've stopped my PMS is less catastrophic and I have fewer other symptoms (acne, etc...) I figured hey, it couldn't hurt.

HTH.

Beebee78

Viviakay - how interesting that the paleodiet has done this for you too!! I am pretty sure I will come on in the next 24 to 48 hours which would be a 28 day cycle for the first time ever. I have a spotty face which I have never had ( I used to just get it turn up whenever no warning etc). In a way I feel sad that I have only just found this out as we are now well into our adoption journey and if I had only tried this before ( but then I do have immune issues too so I don't think the outcome would have been any different for me)

xxx

amyhollingsworth13

I am so thankful to come across this topic. I have had PCOS forever and to be honest I haven't kept up with the research lately. I was totally unaware about the controversy with soy. While I am not vegetarian, I don't eat a lot of animal proteins and soy I rely on soy to keep my protein up. I have sort of given up with treating the PCOS due to never attaining results with medications and honestly now I work a job where I don't have insurance. I am definitely inspired to look in the some alternative treatments though. I guess I have some homework, I need to look more into soy and paleo diet with PCOS.

Is there a support group at MFP for PCOS?? I am still pretty new here and I have been meaning to look through the message boards.

And lavender can affect PCOS!?!? I absolutely love the smell and use it as a natural air freshener in my home.

Beebee78

amy - firstly massive hugs. What I did forget to add is this wonderfully normal cycle I seem to be having is also after stopping all meds related to PCOS!!!

Feel free to add me as a friend. Although no longer trying to conceive, obviously PCOS is something I continue to live with. I am part of the largest fertility charity in the UK and support other ladies going through the same xxx

amyhollingsworth13

Bee,
I just sent a friend request, I suppose great minds think a like! I have also been through years of fertility treatment and my husband and I have decided that I just can't physically and emotionally go through the process again. I was pretty sick while on the infertility drugs and unfortunately gained quite a bit of weight (probably thanks to depression as well). Hopefully after the new year we are going to begin our adoption journey.

Amy

fitterpam

I have just started my second round of Metformin and this time in a much higher dose than the last. It seems to be finally starting to have an impact. I'm going to have to look up paleolithic diets. I've never heard of them, but if they are working for 2 people that are trying them, they have to be worth looking into. And I hadn't heard about lavender or tea tree oil inducing estrogen production - good to know.

We've been TTC for 9 years, when I was diagnosed with PCOS. My cycles have never never never been regular. When I was 17 and complained about it my doctor at the time told me that it was normal for teenagers to have irregular periods. It took me going to emerg to get a referral to a RE (whose primary study was the effects of PCOS). When I went in Nov last year for a sonohystogram the US tech was calling in all the other employees to see "the classic case of PCOS". Textbook....LOL

The metformin is helping the weight fall off dramatically so from that perspective alone, I'm happy. My husband had repro issues too that have just been treated with surgery (Thursday) so we're going to really push the TTC for the next couple of months, otherwise, it's going to be IVF for us in January. I really want to enhance our chances for conception in the next three months because I'm cheap and really would rather not pay that kind of money....:laugh:

YummyTpn

What is PCOS?

Beebee78

Amy - will be here for you all the way during adoption xxx

Pam - I was on Metformin for 6 years at 1700mg a day. Although it can help to reduce the number of cysts and balance insulin resistance there is now some question as to how much it does help. I hope you will be one of the ones it does help and that come january you will not need to look at any further treatment xxx

YummyTanya - PCOS is polycystic ovarian syndrome xxx

lotusfromthemud

And lavender can affect PCOS!?!? I absolutely love the smell and use it as a natural air freshener in my home.

The jury is still out...I was just in "well, it can't hurt to give it up and see if it helps..." mode.

Here's a blog that talks about the study. I used to have terrible breast tenderness and it's gone now...I know correlation doesn't equal cause but....it worked for me.

http://readingdirt.blogspot.com/2006/07/lavender-and-tea-tree-oil-estrogen.html

fitterpam

What is PCOS?

PCOS is polycystic ovarian syndrome. At a basic level, it means that there are multiple cysts on the ovaries. What that actually means is hormonal differences between "normal" women and those with PCOS. For me, this means that my body is constantly expecting TOM (so that the water weight that falls away after AF hits for most, doesn't). I have had irregular cycles most of my life, but when I was 23, it got so bad that I had an AF that lasted from June until Sept, when I went to the hospital finally. The hormone differences means that I don't ovulate monthly so the biggest impact for PCOS'ers is fertility. Women with PCOS are more likely to develop Type 2 diabetes later in life. I was also diagnosed with insulin resistance, a precursor to diabetes, and a very common companion to PCOS.

They are starting to think that it is hereditary and although my Mom didn't have trouble with fertility (6 pregnancies), my two sisters both have had issues that are symptoms of PCOS. Neither have been diagnosed but they aren't pursuing it either. The younger of the two has actually had cysts burst that required emergency surgery and the older of the two (both are younger than me) has the same weight issues and cycle problems as I do.

They are finding more and more woman are being diagnosed. Now whether this is due to changes in our environment or eating habits or because of better diagnosis, I'm not sure.

LOL - I've done a lot of research on the topic. Or at least I did when I was first diagnosed....That's why I'm looking into some of the new things that are being said in the 9 years since then.....There is quite a lot of focus being put on it recently, I'm finding.

ssanchez41010

I to have PCOS.....Haven't gotten it recently checked, for an update although, I am Lactose and only drink soy milk as well! From what I've read and herd it depends on the person. I'm hoping that my life style change in my eating habits can one day help me kick PCOS aside long enough for me to have a baby. I'm slowly shedding the pds off as doctors say that for women that have PCOS are more likely to struggle and usually have to work harder than those women that don't have PCOS to shed the pds.

After seeing this blog I'm definitely anxious to make a doctors appointment, to see how Soy Milk may be affecting me without me knowing it! I'll keep you updated!

Are they any questions you'd like for me to ask!? I'll seriously right them down and ask the Dr! Getting an appointment for this week will be relatively easy.

fitterpam

Thanks guys - the reason we waited 9 years for treatment is because we decided early on 2002 to do the adoption route. For us the results of that were heartbreaking - 2 failed adoptions, 1 private, 1 public both because of red tape. I hope that everyone else's experiences are better than ours. Most people wouldn't even look at us because "you're so young...try having your own first". Still makes me so angry!! LOL

I'm determined to have a family within a year so anything I have to do....I will. Even if it means giving up green beans (my number 1 favourite snack) Yup just looked up the paleolithic diet. I was worried it was going to tell me to eat my meat raw....LOL :laugh: but it looks reasonable. Going to try it.

The first time I did the metformin and it did absolutely nothing for me. The reason I think it's working is because in the 2 months that I've been on it, I've had 4 "friendly visits". LOL I figure it's probably the pendulum swinging the other way from not having anything and hopefully in the next few months I'll start ovulating normally. I could be completely wrong though but fortunately, I've been getting hormone tests at each one so we'll get the results in a bit to see if they are actual ovulations or anovulatory cycles.

The good thing about it though is that the endometrial hyperplasia that I had as a consequence of letting my cycles do what they wanted hasn't resurfaced since Sept of last year so that's a bonus. That's why the concern about the estrogen inducers. Prolonged Estrogen is the main cause of endometrial hyperplasia, which is a precursor to endometrial cancer. That's always been my biggest concern - I don't want to have to have a hysterectomy at 31, which is a real possibility for those with PCOS. A friend of mine got pregnant and right afterwards, they wanted her to do a hysterectomy. She was 23 at the time, but since she'd already had a child and was a huge cancer risk (she doesn't have it!) they wanted to do the procedure.

ssanchez41010

Take a look at these videos on PCOS

Video 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbm6Z1iTw6I

Video 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-3GUE3kab4&feature=related

OTHER:

Video/Top 7 Diet Tips For PCOS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC6KwRJD-kQ&feature=related

Video/ Insulite PCOS system changing lives
http://pcos.insulitelabs.com/

OHH! There's a show/challenge for PCOS women!
http://www.pcoschallenge.com/

Beebee78

Pam - firstly massive hugs. PCOS is a pain in the rear!!! It is possible to have polycystic ovaries and not polycystic ovarian syndrome - a common misconception even amongst medical professionals!

Have you had any other tests done chick? The only reason I ask is because most people with PCOS/annovulatory cycles are more likely to have longer times between periods than lots of periods and to me just hearing you mention that would suggest that something else may be going on - mind you if you're having blood tests done at the moment that could well highlight any underlying issues.

I'm sorry to hear that adoption didn't work out for you. For us so far it has been a pretty stress free process and one we are both enjoying xxx

fitterpam

Have you had any other tests done chick? The only reason I ask is because most people with PCOS/annovulatory cycles are more likely to have longer times between periods than lots of periods and to me just hearing you mention that would suggest that something else may be going on - mind you if you're having blood tests done at the moment that could well highlight any underlying issues.

LOL - oh yes, I've been fully vetted. Glucose tests, hormonal tests and ultrasounds have been the riding factors. My former RE was the leading specialist in Toronto on PCOS. She's published quite a few studies on the topic.

Typically my cycle average is about 50 days which is why I think the metformin is having an effect on me. The fertility clinic asks us to call in Day 1 and they all know me by name now...and I know they aren't looking at my file when they answer and say "AGAIN?!?!?!?" LOL I recently got a new GP because the one I was with very much didn't want to treat anything having to do with the PCOS. When I went to the ob (that I found because of last's summer's AF - it always happens in the summer!!! But not this one actually) he found the hyperplasia. He's been amazing. I've done 5 rounds of Provera since I started with him to mitigate the risk of going too far over my cycle time. He also put me on the pill for 3 months to help me get settled (so that means he's been active in 8 of the last 15 months).

We'll see now what the fertility clinic does for me. I'd like to reduce my risks naturally though so I don't have to rely on the Metformin for the rest of my life. My concern there is since my dad's diabetic, I have a 100% chance of getting it and I don't want it to sneak up on me because it's already being treated. I'm already eating a diabetic diet.

It's interesting actually that the paleolithic diet says to increase the number f root veggies I'm eating. I went to a bariatric (obese) doctor a few years ago and he's absolutely against them - carrots, beets, turnips, parsnips, etc. They are high in sugar and for people with PCOS and IR sugars are a bad choice.

The most fascinating thing to me about PCOS is that the one thing everyone agrees on is that diet is the single most important factor for controlling it but no one can agree on what that means....no wonder I'm so confused.

Hotpinkmama

I also have PCOS ( or PCOD) . but I have never heard this about soy . I don't eat soy often but also didn't know I was suppose to avoid it either. I guess I should be more knowledgeable about the subject but my doctor ticked me off and I haven't even been back for my perscription to be filled in years. But thanks for the info.

Beebee78

GP's are notorious for fobbing off people with PCOS - they don't know as much as they should and so just don't deal with it.

Metformin should only be used in PCOS for a maximum of 2 years. I found this out after doing research in to it's use after being told they were stopping mine ( after 6 years might I add). I was paranoid I would put weight back on and it would ruin everything but on the contrary I have lost weight and things are evening out. Not everyone with PCOS will go on to develop diabetes - in fact it is easily preventable with the right diet and exercise.

With the root veg, paleolithic includes all veg and tries to steer clear of starchy veg such as potatoes. I eat a lot of green leaf vegetables rather than root veg although carrots are on the menu. I also each a lot of Zuchini and cucumber.

Have you had tests such as HSG or laparoscopy and diathermy done to conclude that your tubes are clear? I would also recommend ovarian drilling if your cycles have been long.

xxx

fitterpam

Yep - had the sonohystogram done twice actually. It was a situation I was kind of hoping for the worst actually. The government currently covers one round of IVF only in the case of blocked tubes. The first test showed clear tubes BUT did find the endometrial hyperplasia. The second test was done to confirm the hyperplasia had been taken care of and they couldn't find the left tube. Both my OB and the fertility doctor said to me (independently) because they were clear the first time, the second time was most likely human error during the test. That's not a far fetched thing since I know everything moved around a lot during the first test (the organs and stuff) but the actual doctor did it. The second time the interning doctor did it and it was definitely not as invasive (hurt a whole lot less) so I don't know that she actually looked for it. My cycles have typically been long but with differing timelines - sometimes they are long with long bleed and sometimes they are long without the bleed. Not taking into account the freak times, they are typically between 30-40 days long.

Good to know about the max of two years. I'm sure once I get pregnant, they're going to put be back on the pill.

I have a double whammy with diabetes. My PCOS is a precursor, but also my Dad is diabetic. The research shows that daughters of fathers with diabetes have a 100% chance of developing it (so my PCOS is just kind of confirming it). When I saw the bariatric doctor he told me that with the right diet, I'd still have 100% chance of developing it, I would however be able to sustain a life without it for a longer period of time (i.e. only develop it much later in life vs. now). I liked his ideas about it and his results were undeniable but I hated his methods. My GP warned me ahead of time that his bedside manner was not too helpful. The first thing he said to me. "Whoa you're fat. Let's see how fat." Evil man! LOL And if I didn't lose, "You are cheating. Do you want me to prove it to you. You had dairy. I know it. I can prove I'm right. Let me get the test."

Beebee78

Some dr's beggar belief with their bedside manner. When we moved house my GP told me there was nothing he could do for PCOS - I was fat and so I would never have children - nice man he was!! Fortunately I had already been under the fertility clinic 2 years by that point and was able to get them to talk sense to him so I had my meds whilst changing dr!

It's not unusual for them to lose an ovary or tube on a sonogram - the internal organs do tend to move around a lot and I often had one hiding during rounds of treatment that meant a rather painful poke and prod around until they found it to measure follicle growth.

Have they tried treatments other than IVF for you so far? xxx