Is it easier....

cwolfman13

I was talking to a really good friend of mine this past weekend...we've been close friends for about 25 years. He's always struggled with his weight, even when we were kids and he was always the fat kid. Now he's a fat, approaching middle aged man and he is trying to do something about it. He has consulted with me on numerous occasions over the past year or so and has lost about 20 Lbs...I personally think that's great but he's not so enthusiastic, particularly as I've lost around 40 in that same time.

So we were talking this past weekend and he mentioned that he just thought it was "easier" for me than it was for him...and ultimately I think he might have some valid points. He told me that my journey was simply a journey back to some semblance of what I once was...while he is trying to completely re-invent himself.

I grew up playing sports and involved in athletics. I was a sprinter and jumper in track and field from 2nd grade through my senior year in high school. When it wasn't track and field season I was participating in gymnastics or swim team or diving or soccer. In high school I also tried my hand at a couple of seasons of football and wrestling. When I wasn't participating in sport, I was just active in general....riding my bike, going for hikes, and a good afternoon could be spent playing two hand touch in the park or shooting hoops. I was always a big eater....but I was always starving due to my activity level...I never have had any particular issues with food or emotional eating or bingeing or anything like that. Food has always been something to enjoy...but ultimately fuel.

My buddy was quite the opposite. He was that kid that barely got out of 9th grade P.E. with a C- and frankly that was probably generous; he really doesn't have an athletic bone in his body. His idea of a good afternoon was playing NES and/or taking in some Sci-fi channel and kicking back. His idea of outdoor recreation has always been more along the lines of finding a nice chair on the deck or patio and drinking a beer (which I enjoy as well) while jamming to some tunes. He's always had a pretty negative relationship with food and he is an emotional eater...food is the bane of his existence he tells me.

So it is his belief that, while it took some effort on my part to get back on track, all of this is easier for me because I'm not inventing a new lifestyle for myself...I'm just going back to my previous one and one that has existed for much longer than these last 8 years or so of laziness and sloth.

I think he has some valid points and it does make me look at things a little differently. None of this has been particularly difficult for me...tedious at times yes, but not difficult. My body grumbled a bit when I first started getting back into fitness, but I was soon off to the races and signing up for events, etc. I just wish there was a way I could magically make this easier for him...he's a really great guy and he's very concerned about his health...he keeps plugging away but I'm afraid he's just going to give up one of these days and I really don't want to lose such a good friend.

So what do you think, is it easier? Also, sorry for the novel here...

LoraF83

I think it depends on the person honestly. When I started to lose weight/get fit, I had no idea of where I would end up and what I would look like. I had no frame of reference. I was never "athletic" (but only because I didn't try or was discouraged....turns out, I'm pretty athletic after all). I was skinny for like 5 minutes in high school but I took a lot of diet pills and didn't eat.

But, I knew that I didn't want what I had. I didn't want to be sore and tired and fat and depressed. That was enough motivation to propel me to change. Maybe he just isn't fed up enough yet?

jkwolly

I went through something similar with a friend recently who's goals are larger then mine. Since I was reaching my goals and she wasn't, she basically didn't want to support me anymore. It really hurt my feelings and I felt like she didn't appreciate the hard work I did, even though I was daily supporting her.

People need to understand that no one will ever be the same, and you need to be there to support someone no matter what they are going through. The best thing you can do is be honest and encouraging to your friend, and it will be up to him on how he handles it going forward.

Some people may have it "easier" in that they are accustomed to the lifestyle that other may not have had, but don't discredit the work you've already put in! You should be happy for yourself - 40lbs is amazing!

TR0berts

I can definitely see your buddy's point.

Look at how many threads are here at MFP that are/were started by people that can't seem to find any form of exercise that they like. In your (and quite a few others here) case, you already had things you liked to do - it was just a matter of doing them again. As such, yes, I'd say it was "easier" for you.

jkwolly

Maybe he just isn't fed up enough yet?

This!

I can definitely see your buddy's point.

Look at how many threads are here at MFP that are/were started by people that can't seem to find any form of exercise that they like. In your (and quite a few others here) case, you already had things you liked to do - it was just a matter of doing them again. As such, yes, I'd say it was "easier" for you.

Easier because he's more disciplined than his friend? Well then yes.

Easier to actually do the hard work? No.
People use excuses all the time for not achieving their goals, and ultimately it's up to a lack of motivation and dedication.

pinksmama

This further represents why attitude plays such a huge part in all of the aspects of obtaining your goal, any goal..

xDinMammax

I am that friend.

My friend C is struggling to get back to her earlier fit self (had a horrific accident, was bedridden for a long time) and I am struggling to get fit, period. It's like her body remembers the way she was, while my body is trying to cope with this new feeling.

train_01

I'm no doctor or anything, but maybe it has something to do with a type of "muscle memory"? Like your body "remembers" what it used to do and once you started back, it reverted, whereas your friend's body never learned how to do it in the first place. I would equate it to playing a musical instrument. If you learned when you were young and made it a part of your life for a significant amount of time, you should still be able to do it (although probably not as well) even if you haven't played in 10 years. But for someone who never learned to begin with, it would be very difficult to even begin. It would seem that there is validity in learning things young, even good eating and health habits. Of course, I could be way off here.

usmcmp

I'd say it might be easier for people who were athletic because they have a sport or physical activity that they loved. As we all know the getting active thing is only part of the equation.

When it comes to improving diet I would say that most people are on fairly even ground. It might be easier for people who grew up enjoying a wide variety of fruits and vegetables than someone like me who has been a picky eater. Either way we all fell into bad eating habits (portion control, calorie dense, etc.) and it takes active effort to reverse those habits.

Personally I think saying someone else has it easier is a cop out. It's a way to put the blame on something else. When you are dedicated to making change it will happen no matter how the "odds are stacked against you".

pojinx

It definitely is different for someone that grew up with a more active lifestyle and knows what having healthier habits feels like. I am somewhere in between. I was never obese and never un-athletic, but I was certainly clueless of how to exercise and eat right. So yes, I think he is right that for some it is a reinvention and learning a whole new skill that life hadn't taught you so far. I'm not sure "easier" is the right word though.

cwolfman13

Maybe he just isn't fed up enough yet?

This!

I can definitely see your buddy's point.

Look at how many threads are here at MFP that are/were started by people that can't seem to find any form of exercise that they like. In your (and quite a few others here) case, you already had things you liked to do - it was just a matter of doing them again. As such, yes, I'd say it was "easier" for you.

Easier because he's more disciplined than his friend? Well then yes.

Easier to actually do the hard work? No.
People use excuses all the time for not achieving their goals, and ultimately it's up to a lack of motivation and dedication.

I can kind of see it both ways. I mean, there are days when I don't feel like getting off my *kitten* and into the saddle or into the weight room, but I do it...but overwhelmingly, I thoroughly enjoy these activities and they're not much of a chore 95% of the time. They were early on, but as I regained my fitness I was like, "yeah...I remember how this feels...it feels ****ing awesome!" "sweat is awesome"..."pain is awesome"..."strength is awesome."

I wish there was some way for me to convey that feeling of awesomeness to him...but it only comes from making it a habit by which your level of fitness actually improves. I can get him out on the bike with me maybe once per month...dude is strong as hell, so I tried to get him into the power rack with me as well...if he wanted to, he could rock some power lifting...pretty much a no go there. Forget running, he won't even entertain the notion. He does like golf and fishing....So at least he moves a little, but he only does one of those things about once per week.

Sunbrooke

I think in some ways it is easier for me. I seem to be able to tighten my muscles and stay in an uncomfortable position for a long time. I can just push myself hard. In the army they said I had "heart", but I really think it was physical. I get a huge adrenaline rush from working out and it doesn't take me long before I can't feel the pain anymore. It makes it easier to get started too since I know I will like the feeling of working out.

usmcmp

I wish there was some way for me to convey that feeling of awesomeness to him...but it only comes from making it a habit by which your level of fitness actually improves. I can get him out on the bike with me maybe once per month...dude is strong as hell, so I tried to get him into the power rack with me as well...if he wanted to, he could rock some power lifting...pretty much a no go there. Forget running, he won't even entertain the notion. He does like golf and fishing....So at least he moves a little, but he only does one of those things about once per week.

You're only looking at one part of the fitness/health equation. I know that getting active becomes self rewarding because most of us start eating better. This reminds me of a mean article on T-nation.
http://www.t-nation.com/powerful-words/merry-christmas-bob

LoraF83

Maybe he just isn't fed up enough yet?

This!

I can definitely see your buddy's point.

Look at how many threads are here at MFP that are/were started by people that can't seem to find any form of exercise that they like. In your (and quite a few others here) case, you already had things you liked to do - it was just a matter of doing them again. As such, yes, I'd say it was "easier" for you.

Easier because he's more disciplined than his friend? Well then yes.

Easier to actually do the hard work? No.
People use excuses all the time for not achieving their goals, and ultimately it's up to a lack of motivation and dedication.

I can kind of see it both ways. I mean, there are days when I don't feel like getting off my *kitten* and into the saddle or into the weight room, but I do it...but overwhelmingly, I thoroughly enjoy these activities and they're not much of a chore 95% of the time. They were early on, but as I regained my fitness I was like, "yeah...I remember how this feels...it feels ****ing awesome!" "sweat is awesome"..."pain is awesome"..."strength is awesome."

I wish there was some way for me to convey that feeling of awesomeness to him...but it only comes from making it a habit by which your level of fitness actually improves. I can get him out on the bike with me maybe once per month...dude is strong as hell, so I tried to get him into the power rack with me as well...if he wanted to, he could rock some power lifting...pretty much a no go there. Forget running, he won't even entertain the notion. He does like golf and fishing....So at least he moves a little, but he only does one of those things about once per week.

Then he isn't fed up enough.

I hated to sweat, thought exercise was horrible torture. And then I made myself do it (even when I didn't want to) just so I would get the end results. Now I can't live without it most of the time. There are still days where I just want to stay on my couch, but for the most part, I love being active. But I had to learn that, and part of learning was making myself work.

For a long time, when I was fat, I didn't know how bad I felt. I knew I was heavy and I knew I didn't want to be heavy, but I had no idea how horrible I felt physically on a daily basis.
You don't realize how bad you felt until you don't feel bad anymore. Now that I feel great, I realize how awful it was. Unfortunately, your friend doesn't know yet either.

bcattoes

I'm sure it's not always true, but I think your friend has a very valid point. I've never let my weight get terribly out of control because when I carry too much fat, I don't feel like me. I was thin for all of my childhood and young adult life and never hit "overweight" until I was in my 40's. Since then it's been up and down, but the thing that always got me back to 'down' is that I don't feel like me when I'm fat.

I imagine it's sometimes the opposite for those that have lived a lifetime being overweight. When they are no longer overweight, even though they my like what they see in the mirror and how they feel, they may no longer feel like themselves.

ItsCasey

I'm basically in the same situation with my brother and sister, although in reverse. I was always the chubby one. I played sports, so I wasn't unathletic, but they were both tall and thin, and I was short and, while not fat, nobody would've called me thin, either. I was always in the "a little overweight" category until about halfway through college, and I started putting on a ton of weight. Five years later, I was more than 100 lbs heavier than when I graduated from high school. Today, the situation has reversed itself. I am the thinner, athletic one, and my brother and sister are both overweight. It should be noted that both are married, have very young kids, and have put fitness on the back burner. I am single and have no kids, so I definitely have more freedom in this regard, but still, they have not made the effort.

I think what makes it "easier" for people who were always thin is that they have more of a concrete idea of what they are working toward. As someone who never remembered a time in my life when I wasn't the chubby sister or the fat friend, it was much more abstract for me. And it can be difficult to find the determination to go after something that really has no shape or form in your mind's eye. You just believe it's "better" than what you have now.

Overall, I don't think it's really easier for anyone. I think when you reach a point where you want it badly enough, you no longer have those creeping doubts where you allow yourself to think maybe you're not cut out for it. You start acknowledging that it's hard but that you're going to do anyway. No going back. And when you reach that point, everyone is on the same playing field.

cwolfman13

When it comes to improving diet I would say that most people are on fairly even ground. It might be easier for people who grew up enjoying a wide variety of fruits and vegetables than someone like me who has been a picky eater. Either way we all fell into bad eating habits (portion control, calorie dense, etc.) and it takes active effort to reverse those habits.

Good point. I regularly do point out to him that I did have to learn to eat and properly fuel my body. I was pretty out of control there for awhile given that I went from being very active to pretty much sedentary...but I ate like I was training for the Olympics or something.

cwolfman13

For a long time, when I was fat, I didn't know how bad I felt. I knew I was heavy and I knew I didn't want to be heavy, but I had no idea how horrible I felt physically on a daily basis.
You don't realize how bad you felt until you don't feel bad anymore. Now that I feel great, I realize how awful it was. Unfortunately, your friend doesn't know yet either.

QFT

hfester

I think what makes it "easier" for people who were always thin is that they have more of a concrete idea of what they are working toward. As someone who never remembered a time in my life when I wasn't the chubby sister or the fat friend, it was much more abstract for me. And it can be difficult to find the determination to go after something that really has no shape or form in your mind's eye. You just believe it's "better" than what you have now.

I agree with this and think it's eloquently stated. It's hard to visualize something you've never seen.

JoRocka

Maybe he just isn't fed up enough yet?

This!

I can definitely see your buddy's point.

Look at how many threads are here at MFP that are/were started by people that can't seem to find any form of exercise that they like. In your (and quite a few others here) case, you already had things you liked to do - it was just a matter of doing them again. As such, yes, I'd say it was "easier" for you.

Easier because he's more disciplined than his friend? Well then yes.

Easier to actually do the hard work? No.
People use excuses all the time for not achieving their goals, and ultimately it's up to a lack of motivation and dedication.

I think easier mentally.

At some point he was already THERE- the friend wasn't- he doesn't know what it's like to do the work. The work is the work- it doesn't matter whose doing it. It's still work.

But my BF- not athletic- watching him run is painful to me- I can't imagine him working out (he says he does) and when he says he works out and I ask he goes
"push ups... and bicep curls- you know work out stuff"

it's just almost laughable- but his idea of what this is about and what his body is capable of and mine are so completely different. just two completely different mind sets.

But I think the mental frame work makes a huge difference- and like Casey said- if you were there once- you have a concrete idea of what you are working toward. If you have never been there- you are grasping at hope- an idea- working toward it but not knowing exactly what it is.

How many threads do we get "I've made it- but I still have XXXX emotional/mental issue hang up with myself???"

the psychological side affect/impact of this business is far greater than most people are willing to admit.

cwolfman13

It should be noted that both are married, have very young kids, and have put fitness on the back burner.

Essentially what happened to me...

I think what makes it "easier" for people who were always thin is that they have more of a concrete idea of what they are working toward. As someone who never remembered a time in my life when I wasn't the chubby sister or the fat friend, it was much more abstract for me. And it can be difficult to find the determination to go after something that really has no shape or form in your mind's eye. You just believe it's "better" than what you have now.

Yeah...I can see that; abstract conceptualization can be a *****.

sijomial

I think the food intake side comes down to self-control and habit but definitely agree enjoying exercise and activity makes the calorie output side easier.

I've always been sporty and goal driven so having the time and opportunity to train made weight loss much easier. In the past although I was very active and fit I stayed fat - I simply ate more to match any increase in calories burned.

That's why calorie counting worked like a charm for me, it became a simple choice of choosing to stay fat or choosing to hit my calorie allowance. Having an extra 4000+ exercise calories to eat every week is a big help as well in not feeling restricted.

I've a lot of respect for people that dislike exercise but still make themselves do it for their health but fear that longer term continuing to force yourself to do something you don't enjoy is much less likely to be sustainable. For people like that I wonder if incorportating more "activity" is a better long term solution? Less sitting down, more walking, less driving, always taking the stairs - all these things add up.

MagJam2004

the psychological side affect/impact of this business is far greater than most people are willing to admit.

I see some folks saying he just isn't fed up enough and that isn't always enough. I was both pretty fed up and very ashamed of myself whenever I had to get in the shower and had to see that fat guy in the full mirror looking back at me. But I was equally as mired in my frustration and confusion as I was in my shame and anger. I had no clear path in front of me and it took A HUGE first step to reach out and ask for help. Now I find myself drowning in ignorance and still as lost as before, only I understand now that the trail must be made, it isn't clear and laid out. I believe for some like me that have been big their whole life, it is in fact a bit harder. Not just the physical hurdles that have to be overcome, but the mental and emotional ones as well. Those are the beastly ones.

Jenn842512

This is an excellent topic for debate but one that I think is so circumstancial, with sooo many factors to consider, that you could never say definitively one way or the other.

I was a high school athlete. Kickboxing, tennis, softball, horseback... Went to college and got a F&B job and gained a LOT of weight. But once I'd "had enough" and really got back in it, my body felt like coming home. The muscle memory, the joy in movement and competition, they were all still there right below the lazy surface. Once an athlete always an athlete.

BUT, I truly truly believe that anyone can create their body and life to be ANYTHING if they are determined enough. They just may not have the same resources as someone with our past.

kickivale

I never played sports as a kid. I read a lot of books alone at recess
I never danced or liked swimming or climbed trees because I was too shy to get out there and join the group.
But I also never wanted to eat more than a fistful of food in a sitting…never craved piles of candy or more than one piece of cake or pizza…
And to this day I've never been technically overweight, not by a long shot.
I do think it's easier for me because my body seems very inclined to hover right in the realm of lean. That's how I am built.
My older sister on the other hand was an athlete a ballerina a voracious eater…she had some real weight problems in her teen years and really has to kick *kitten* to maintain the weigh loss she achieved.
I totally agree with your friend, some people are this way, some people are that way. It's deciding what one really wants that matter sthough. There's no excuse to live in a body you don't love, right?

cwolfman13

I've a lot of respect for people that dislike exercise but still make themselves do it for their health but fear that longer term continuing to force yourself to do something you don't enjoy is much less likely to be sustainable. For people like that I wonder if incorportating more "activity" is a better long term solution? Less sitting down, more walking, less driving, always taking the stairs - all these things add up.

That's definitely something I've been talking to him about and I think he's taken it to heart. He no longer waits for the "rock star" parking at the store but rather he finds a spot further away. He says he takes the stairs at work and parks further away from the building. As the weather improves and when day light savings arrives, hopefully he'll get in a few more rounds of golf...he doesn't use a cart anymore for 9 holes or the Executive 9 (I used to give him major **** for that one) which is a step in the right direction.

cwolfman13

I wish there was some way for me to convey that feeling of awesomeness to him...but it only comes from making it a habit by which your level of fitness actually improves. I can get him out on the bike with me maybe once per month...dude is strong as hell, so I tried to get him into the power rack with me as well...if he wanted to, he could rock some power lifting...pretty much a no go there. Forget running, he won't even entertain the notion. He does like golf and fishing....So at least he moves a little, but he only does one of those things about once per week.

You're only looking at one part of the fitness/health equation. I know that getting active becomes self rewarding because most of us start eating better. This reminds me of a mean article on T-nation.
http://www.t-nation.com/powerful-words/merry-christmas-bob

love this...this was great....

"We do it because we absolutely and totally get off on it. We do it because what we do in the gym transfers over into the rest of our lives and changes us -- physically, mentally, maybe even spiritually. We do it because it beats watching celebritards on TV.

"When we're in the gym, we're in this indescribable, euphoric zone. It's a feeling of being on, of being completely alive. Within this haze of pleasure and pain, there's knowledge and power, self-discipline and self-reliance. If you do it long enough, there's even enlightenment. Sometimes, the answers to questions you didn't even know you had are sitting there on those rubber mats, disguised as iron plates and bent bars.

DopeItUp

Well, of course it's easier or harder for some people, but that doesn't really change the facts any.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to you leaving a 300lb corpse, 20 years too young or not. If it's harder, it's harder, but it still has to be done if you don't want to be that guy.

husseycd

I think it does help to be a naturally active person, or someone who enjoys active hobbies. I've never been one to sit still, so even when my diet was horrible, I was never overweight. The idea of sitting around all day sounds dreadful to me.

Now, I was never one to exercise just to exercise either. I had to change my goals to start really hitting the weights in gym. But my hobbies are almost always exercise based.

That being said, I still have to find activities I enjoy. You will never find me on the treadmill for longer than 10 minutes (and that's pushing it). So it still takes a level of dedication.

rybo

Great topic, very thought provoking and meaningful.

Wolfman, I am from a very similar back story as you. Always active & athletic. Viewed an AYCE buffet as and "average" meal, but was so active it didn't matter. Then I hit a period in my life where activity ceased (or dramatically slowed) but the eating didn't. I got chubby for a few years (at least compared to what I was) Then decided to lose it...started back to running & working out, created better eating habits and lost the weight fairly easily. Yes there were times I didnt want to run or whatever, but I still just did it, because that was how it had to be. there's always days where you don't feel like working out but you do. I see people that lose LOTS of weight and they to me are the truly inspirational ones because they created a whole new person, where as I just got back to who I always was.

msf74

So what do you think, is it easier?

Yes, I do especially with regard to fitness and exercise.

I think it is much easier to pick up exercising when you have been formerly athletic, especially as a child, than to learn to achieve it as an adult.

I don't think we ever truly forget, either body or mind, the skills we learn. Those habits are there lurking in our unconscious minds, our neural connections and encoded into our muscle memory. Learning these skills as children tends to be much easier as we have less barriers to overcome (particularly mental), less fear of injury or failure. Then as adults when we seek to pick them up again we get back into the groove quicker. You know when you have mastered something? When you don't have to think about it and it seems effortless to get into the zone. That state comes much quicker to the formerly athletic than the never been athletic.