High Caloric Needs for Weight Loss

heybales

what happens if you dont eat that many calories?

I don't lose. Plain and simple.

As I stated in my post, I'm in recovery. My metabolic processes have been negatively impacted as such, and I don't really have the option of fasting or drastically undereating. It's already been observed that it quickly turns for the worse. When I started at MFP and stuck the idea that I didn't need to eat my exercise calories because I was so fat, I lost the water weight and then stalled. After several weeks, we did more testing, which showed I'd relapsed into the starved mode I was in during anorexia days.

I had to refeed to more than twice what I was intuitively eating, and then I started dropping 4-7 pounds a week.

Horray, really, to have figured that out without wasting time vastly undereating.

But I would agree with comment above on protein amounts. Unless that excess protein just helps with the weight loss better, you'll have to balance ability and costs with effect.

And actually, the BodyMedia does calculate a BMR figure first from normal gender, age, weight, height. Their FAQ says what formula they use, close to Mifflin though.

But then that info goes to table to say how much heat is therefore expected to be seen from the heat sensor at night during sleep.
That is compared, and it'll start adjusting that BMR figure for where the heat really is.
And several things can throw off that heat figure, but probably not by that much. But it can only seem to adjust so far I've found from informal surveys on MFP.

But then again, results trump estimates - so keep heading on up.

I would say once you have a month of loss, compare what you ate (if decently accurate) added with what you lost, to see what the real TDEE must have been.
Then see what BMF said the TDEE was during that time.

Quasita

I've found that if I buy a flat of chicken breasts and bake them all at once, seasoned with only some olive oil and basic spices, they are easy to throw in a lunch in any number of forms. I realize that's a lot of chicken for you to eat, and it's not calorie-dense, but it is protein-dense.

Out of curiosity, you said you had run all of these numbers by your doctors, which is awesome. I've been a bit concerned, myself, about overdoing it on the protein due to the effects a super high-protein diet can have on the kidneys. Almonds, too, in large numbers, can cause some issues due to high levels of Vitamin E. My doctor insisted on checking my kidneys before agreeing that my protein shakes and creatine were a good idea, for example, and I've never even had kidney issues before. You may have already covered all this with your doctor, since it sounds like you're on top of your stuff, but just some food for thought in case you haven't. If you're able to get your hands on a variety of the types of foods you're looking for, the more variety you can get, the better! Best of luck to you.

Yeah, I've had function checks as well as ultrasounds of the kidneys. I drink my water in 3 liter bottles. 240g of protein isn't very excessive for me because of my body composition. We're not even trying to get me down into the "healthy" range for my height (140-185lbs) because it would require significant muscle breakdown to get there.

Quasita

what happens if you dont eat that many calories?

I don't lose. Plain and simple.

As I stated in my post, I'm in recovery. My metabolic processes have been negatively impacted as such, and I don't really have the option of fasting or drastically undereating. It's already been observed that it quickly turns for the worse. When I started at MFP and stuck the idea that I didn't need to eat my exercise calories because I was so fat, I lost the water weight and then stalled. After several weeks, we did more testing, which showed I'd relapsed into the starved mode I was in during anorexia days.

I had to refeed to more than twice what I was intuitively eating, and then I started dropping 4-7 pounds a week.

Horray, really, to have figured that out without wasting time vastly undereating.

But I would agree with comment above on protein amounts. Unless that excess protein just helps with the weight loss better, you'll have to balance ability and costs with effect.

And actually, the BodyMedia does calculate a BMR figure first from normal gender, age, weight, height. Their FAQ says what formula they use, close to Mifflin though.

But then that info goes to table to say how much heat is therefore expected to be seen from the heat sensor at night during sleep.
That is compared, and it'll start adjusting that BMR figure for where the heat really is.
And several things can throw off that heat figure, but probably not by that much. But it can only seem to adjust so far I've found from informal surveys on MFP.

But then again, results trump estimates - so keep heading on up.

I would say once you have a month of loss, compare what you ate (if decently accurate) added with what you lost, to see what the real TDEE must have been.
Then see what BMF said the TDEE was during that time.

Right, the default is such, but then it monitors and adjusts over several days. Mine significantly changed. Following their numbers made the pounds drop off.

Since then, I've lost about 1/3 of my income, so I am just trying to get back to following the numbers within my cost abilities. I don't expect people to understand what it's like to be a dinosaur-sized woman.

BusyRaeNOTBusty

So you are getting irritated that people are actually trying to help you rather than simply, blindly answering your question?


Calorie dense foods:

High fat dairy - whole milk, cream, butter. When my daugther was underweight the doctor suggested adding half&half to her cereal, and milk (she didn't like it).

High fat meat - steak, ground beef, etc.

Nuts & peanut butter

Protein shakes with double scoops, bananas and sugar added.

Oatmeal w/ nuts, sugar, honey, agave nectar, etc.

likitisplit

Pizza?

Ground beef?

TR0berts

So you are getting irritated that people are actually trying to help you rather than simply, blindly answering your question?

I think it's that people aren't actually reading the thread. She's had issues and is working with her doctors, so she already knows her Caloric needs. Yet, people keep trying to give her advice in finding how many Calories she needs. That step is done.

Quasita

So you are getting irritated that people are actually trying to help you rather than simply, blindly answering your question?


Calorie dense foods:

High fat dairy - whole milk, cream, butter. When my daugther was underweight the doctor suggested adding half&half to her cereal, and milk (she didn't like it).

High fat meat - steak, ground beef, etc.

Nuts & peanut butter

Protein shakes with double scoops, bananas and sugar added.

Oatmeal w/ nuts, sugar, honey, agave nectar, etc.

I'm not irritated by the attempts to help. I just don't need lectures about my numbers. I'm not asking for it, I'm not concerned about it, so the assumption that I somehow don't have a handle on it when I have had not only great success (and kept it off eating 4k+) but to not even bother to answer what I asked in the first place are pretty bothersome.

I've learned very quickly in these forums that it's not the place to come for actual advice on the numbers anyway. I just need high calorie, low sugar foods that I can afford.

JoRocka

as for "eating all day"

yes.

it happens.

if that's what it takes for you to get to your goal- get used to the idea of getting food in however you can- whenever you can.

This is one reason body builders/people bulking eat a lot through out the day- because it's down right hard to eat 1000 calorie meals 3 times a day- day in and day out. We graze because that's the best way to get the food in- it's normal.

milk
butter
peanut butter
chocolate
yogurt +_ protein
fruit
beer
oatmeal
pizza
pasta
lasagna
trail mix

Quasita

So you are getting irritated that people are actually trying to help you rather than simply, blindly answering your question?

I think it's that people aren't actually reading the thread. She's had issues and is working with her doctors, so she already knows her Caloric needs. Yet, people keep trying to give her advice in finding how many Calories she needs. That step is done.

Thank you. Much succinct, better than I did

loubidy

I've learned very quickly in these forums that it's not the place to come for actual advice on the numbers anyway. I just need high calorie, low sugar foods that I can afford.

I disagree, this is a great place to come for numbers if you need help with them so long as people are willing to listen to the answers. It is only not a good place to come if you don't want to hear the truth.

I know numbers aren't relevant to you in this post. I'm just saying many people on here know what they're talking about. Tried and tested.

richardheath

Am I reading your post correctly? You are saying 143g of protein each meal? So 3 meals would be around 430g of protein in a day. Extreme athletes and bodybuilders don't require that much protein a day. I think you may have miscalculated something. That's around 1700 calories a day in protein alone. Something is not correct.

This.

The often used rule of thumb is around 0.8 g protein per lb of total mass. But with a mass of 400+ lbs, you are going to be throwing that guideline off. So maybe go with 1.0 g per lb of lean body mass, or 1 g/lb target weight. Somewhere around 150-200 g of protein per day would be plenty.

So, decide what your overall calorie intake should be (TDEE - 20% if you are big). Set the protein based on grams, and see what that gives you as a % of overall. Don't worry if it is 10% or 45%. Add some fat (~0.4 g/lb LBM), and then fill in the rest with carbs.

I wish people would actually read what I'm asking for... My protein goal is currently 240g. I was just commenting on scooby calculations and their ridiculousness when it came to trying to make a plan.

Sorry if I misunderstood. The OP read as if you were shooting for (3 * 143 = 429 g) of protein a day, which is excessive. As you've now clarified it to 240 g per day, that's still high, but achievable. We were trying to help by pointing out you didn't need 400 g, but I guess you've figured that out!

And yes, calculators are going to be estimates based on populations. There will always be outliers.

doughnutwretch

If you didn't want them to comment about your numbers, you shouldn't have shared them. And in case you were wondering, I'm also of the mindset that you would have more success with a larger deficit at this point due to your size. :bigsmile:

Poultry, eggs, canned tuna, higher fat content ground beef, protein powder, non-fat milk, greek yogurt, etc are all pretty cheap protein sources. Meats are cheapest if you butcher yourself, like a whole turkey or chicken. Watch for sales on proteins and buy when things are on sale and freeze.

Kenazwa

When I'm on a tight budget, I have to plan meals around what is on sale. It differs from week to week. When you get a good deal on ground beef, buy a bunch of it. You can make meatloaf in muffin tins and have grab-and-go protein.

Trail mix (my nemesis) is very calorie dense but high in fat. I didn't see a reference to needing more fat in your posts. But it makes the calorie count go up fast.

MrsK20141004

How do you feel about peanut butter? Inexpensive. Delicious. Packed with calories and some protein to boot. (Natural is first choice...) Can be eaten on apples, carrots, celery, hell I will eat it with a spoon.

QFT.

SassyCalyGirl

So you are getting irritated that people are actually trying to help you rather than simply, blindly answering your question?


Calorie dense foods:

High fat dairy - whole milk, cream, butter. When my daugther was underweight the doctor suggested adding half&half to her cereal, and milk (she didn't like it).

High fat meat - steak, ground beef, etc.

Nuts & peanut butter

Protein shakes with double scoops, bananas and sugar added.

Oatmeal w/ nuts, sugar, honey, agave nectar, etc.

I'm not irritated by the attempts to help. I just don't need lectures about my numbers. I'm not asking for it, I'm not concerned about it, so the assumption that I somehow don't have a handle on it when I have had not only great success (and kept it off eating 4k+) but to not even bother to answer what I asked in the first place are pretty bothersome.

I've learned very quickly in these forums that it's not the place to come for actual advice on the numbers anyway. I just need high calorie, low sugar foods that I can afford.

then perhaps you should do some research on your own, elsewhere.

Quasita

Am I reading your post correctly? You are saying 143g of protein each meal? So 3 meals would be around 430g of protein in a day. Extreme athletes and bodybuilders don't require that much protein a day. I think you may have miscalculated something. That's around 1700 calories a day in protein alone. Something is not correct.

This.

The often used rule of thumb is around 0.8 g protein per lb of total mass. But with a mass of 400+ lbs, you are going to be throwing that guideline off. So maybe go with 1.0 g per lb of lean body mass, or 1 g/lb target weight. Somewhere around 150-200 g of protein per day would be plenty.

So, decide what your overall calorie intake should be (TDEE - 20% if you are big). Set the protein based on grams, and see what that gives you as a % of overall. Don't worry if it is 10% or 45%. Add some fat (~0.4 g/lb LBM), and then fill in the rest with carbs.

I wish people would actually read what I'm asking for... My protein goal is currently 240g. I was just commenting on scooby calculations and their ridiculousness when it came to trying to make a plan.

Sorry if I misunderstood. The OP read as if you were shooting for (3 * 143 = 429 g) of protein a day, which is excessive. As you've now clarified it to 240 g per day, that's still high, but achievable. We were trying to help by pointing out you didn't need 400 g, but I guess you've figured that out!

And yes, calculators are going to be estimates based on populations. There will always be outliers.

I'll admit it wasn't very clear, looking back. I was mentioning it more as a ridiculous goal that seems completely un-achievable to me. I understand the comments about the protein.

Lots of people like to assume (incorrectly so) that being over 400lbs means you're a beach ball of fat and have little muscle. I'm definitely the opposite. Visual estimates of my weight are around 265 most of the time. Now, that doesn't mean much, I realize, I'm just trying to say that I'm not a blob of fat, I'm very dense and heavy person and naturally high athletic. The 240g goal to me seems pretty reasonable in that light...

Admittedly, my goals right now are more focused on getting vitamins rather than strictly macros, but I still need to infuse more calories. It's been hard, and coming out of surgery where they severed my abdominals, I'm still repairing muscle like crazy, while picking back up into work outs.

Annie_01

Garbanzo beans (chickpeas)...you can roast them in the oven coated with different spices and use them as something to munch on at work.

There are recipes on line or you can buy them already roasted...I think.

Protein...15g per one cup serving according to...

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4326/2

Quasita

Garbanzo beans (chickpeas)...you can roast them in the oven coated with different spices and use them as something to munch on at work.

There are recipes on line or you can buy them already roasted...I think.

Protein...15g per one cup serving according to...

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4326/2

That sounds super good, thanks!!!

lanafalls

make your own trail mix and granola bars. recipes abound on the internets. you can tailor them to what you like and have on hand. baked oatmeal is awesome, again tailored to what you like and have on hand. i know almonds can be expensive, i'm addicted to them. i find they're a bit cheaper in the bulk section of my grocery store though. maybe try looking there. or places like costco where you can get giant tubs of them. it might be a bigger cost upfront, but the price per pound might be cheaper. and yogurt all the things!

heybales

4-7 lbs lost weekly when eating enough.

I'd suggest that is rather good.