Strength Gains vs. Size Gains

AshwinA7

"Strength gains do not equal size gains"

This is another one of those statements that I hear quite a bit and so I automatically have a certain skepticism towards it.

Considering that the purpose of more muscle is to increase strength, I find it hard to believe that the two could really that different. Are there any studies that show size gains are not equal to strength gains or vice versa?

cwolfman13

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16464122

You can make substantial strength gains without increasing mass...at some point you have to increase mass too, but you can make phenomenal strength gains without gaining appreciable mass.

I push and pull quite a bit more weight than some of my fellow, more jacked friends at the gym because I train for strength gains.

Fithealthyforlife

I don't have personal experience with this yet, b/c I haven't been at it very long, but my guess is that once you start deadlifting over 200 or so (for a guy) you have to increase in size.

(And if you don't increase in size, it will be due to not eating enough, and I doubt you'll ever be able to get above a certain level in terms of weight lifted if that were the case.)

But maybe it's possible that some people have a higher than average capacity to increase their strength without increasing muscle size and calories consumed...I don't know. But there are some pretty strong powerfliters out there, anyway.

jwdieter

Genetics are involved, but can be decently strong relative to body weight without being particularly large. Double bodyweight squats and such don't require a lot of muscle.

Fithealthyforlife

Type of training also matters as well...bodybuilders work out for size.

somefitsomefat

Genetics are involved, but can be decently strong relative to body weight without being particularly large. Double bodyweight squats and such don't require a lot of muscle.

LOL I'm 242lbs but can't squat 484

jwdieter

Genetics are involved, but can be decently strong relative to body weight without being particularly large. Double bodyweight squats and such don't require a lot of muscle.

LOL I'm 242lbs but can't squat 484

I'm guessing you aren't particularly lean, or you're abnormally tall? I should clarify for normal, fit male body. If you're 242 and ripped, 484 should be doable. If you're 7'0, maybe not.

JoRocka

Genetics are involved, but can be decently strong relative to body weight without being particularly large. Double bodyweight squats and such don't require a lot of muscle.

LOL I'm 242lbs but can't squat 484

can't squat 480 *yet*

contingencyplan

Strength is a product of the muscle and nervous system working together. Depending on how you train is possible for one to increase while the other stays pretty stagnant. Many people who train mainly for size end up having this happen. They train the muscles but ignore the types of training that stimulate the nervous system's capacity for strength to grow along with the muscle.

JoRocka

Strength is a product of the muscle and nervous system working together. Depending on how you train is possible for one to increase while the other stays pretty stagnant. Many people who train mainly for size end up having this happen. They train the muscles but ignore the types of training that stimulate the nervous system's capacity for strength to grow along with the muscle.

to be fair- big body building guys aren't weak. they just aren't power lifter strong. But they are by no means weak.

somefitsomefat

Genetics are involved, but can be decently strong relative to body weight without being particularly large. Double bodyweight squats and such don't require a lot of muscle.

LOL I'm 242lbs but can't squat 484

can't squat 480 *yet*

LOL fair enough. My ideal weight would be 210 so I'll knock it down to 420 on the ultimate squate goal. Realistically above 300 would be nice.

JoRocka

LOL fair enough. My ideal weight would be 210 so I'll knock it down to 420 on the ultimate squate goal. Realistically above 300 would be nice.

I have a ridiculously shoddy squat- so in my mind everything is "yet"

I can't do this YET. Always trying to look on the up and up!!!

jwdieter

to be fair- big body building guys aren't weak. they just aren't power lifter strong. But they are by no means weak.

That's fair. Big muscles are above average strength no matter what. They're leaving a lot of strength on the table though. Can train the mass and see huge gains.

contingencyplan

Strength is a product of the muscle and nervous system working together. Depending on how you train is possible for one to increase while the other stays pretty stagnant. Many people who train mainly for size end up having this happen. They train the muscles but ignore the types of training that stimulate the nervous system's capacity for strength to grow along with the muscle.

to be fair- big body building guys aren't weak. they just aren't power lifter strong. But they are by no means weak.

wasn't saying they are weak, just that unless specific training parameters are observed strength gains won't be proportional to size gains. It'll still increase though.

tigersword

Strength gains come from neuromuscular adaptation. An untrained person new to lifting will see phenomenal strength gains, as your CNS (central nervous system) generally doesn't use all available muscle for day to day activity. Using 100% contractile force of every muscle fiber in your biceps to lift a can of soda up for a drink would most likely end up with you smacking yourself in the face, painfully.

When you start lifting, your CNS goes to work at first just doing what it does, using the same amount of muscle it always does. As you lift a heavy weight (relatively) you struggle, and your CNS realizes that the normal won't work. So on your rest day, your CNS quickly goes to work, adding new nerve endings (innervating) to muscle that doesn't get used much to increase efficiency, allowing more fibers to be recruited at once, which makes that heavy weight from Monday feel lighter on Wednesday, with no new muscle added. Your body also takes the opportunity to increase muscle glycogen storage in the muscles that were being worked. More glycogen means more strength and endurance.

This process continues until all available fibers are recruited. Once that point is reached, the only way to get stronger is through hypertrophy, or muscle growth, which is a very slow process compared to CNS adaptation.

This is why people that start lifting will see their maxes skyrocket in the first year or so, but then struggle to add 5 pounds to their max after a couple years.

SezxyStef

I don't have personal experience with this yet, b/c I haven't been at it very long, but my guess is that once you start deadlifting over 200 or so (for a guy) you have to increase in size.

(And if you don't increase in size, it will be due to not eating enough, and I doubt you'll ever be able to get above a certain level in terms of weight lifted if that were the case.)

But maybe it's possible that some people have a higher than average capacity to increase their strength without increasing muscle size and calories consumed...I don't know. But there are some pretty strong powerfliters out there, anyway.

Nope..I DL 200lbs and will move up Next Wednesday and I wont be increasing the size of my muscles...and I am a woman.

waldo56

Are there any studies that show size gains are not equal to strength gains or vice versa?

Studies?

This is well established common knowledge and our understanding of physiology absolutely agrees with this.

WendyTerry420

"Strength gains do not equal size gains"

This is another one of those statements that I hear quite a bit and so I automatically have a certain skepticism towards it.

Considering that the purpose of more muscle is to increase strength, I find it hard to believe that the two could really that different. Are there any studies that show size gains are not equal to strength gains or vice versa?

I'm getting smaller and gaining strength. *shrugs*

yogicarl

I welcome this phenomenon as I progress in yoga it is valuable to promote strength without gaining mass. It's a high strength to weight ratio.

BarbellApprentice

Strength is a product of the muscle and nervous system working together. Depending on how you train is possible for one to increase while the other stays pretty stagnant. Many people who train mainly for size end up having this happen. They train the muscles but ignore the types of training that stimulate the nervous system's capacity for strength to grow along with the muscle.

Yea, just check out some powerlifting videos on YouTube. Lot of guys out there that are not that big moving huge weights.

Tedebearduff

I don't have personal experience with this yet, b/c I haven't been at it very long, but my guess is that once you start deadlifting over 200 or so (for a guy) you have to increase in size.

(And if you don't increase in size, it will be due to not eating enough, and I doubt you'll ever be able to get above a certain level in terms of weight lifted if that were the case.)

But maybe it's possible that some people have a higher than average capacity to increase their strength without increasing muscle size and calories consumed...I don't know. But there are some pretty strong powerfliters out there, anyway.

Why say anything if you don't know ....