Strength Gains vs. Size Gains
Replies
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I have done both heavier weights with lower reps, and lighter weights with higher reps. I am actually stronger and leaner now, doing the lower weights, higher reps, than I was doing the opposite.
are you stronger in the sense you can do more reps or in the sense you can do a heavier weight?
because those aren't the same thing- doing more of a thing past a certain rep range doesn't make you 'stronger' in the traditional sense of the word. Doing more of a thing just means you can do it longer.
My dance studio- we do a LOT of rep stuff- because- no weights. We hold stuff for MINUTES- do exercises based on minutes of things- or lengths of a song- it kicks my *kitten*. Every time. But I am stronger than all of those girls combined. If I trained like they did- it would be a different story.
Well, given I worked with a trainer doing heavier weights last year, I think I know what stronger means, lol. Obviously more reps does not mean stronger. I mean in the sense that my assisted pullups, are requiring less assistance, I am managing to get closer to doing the pullup I so wish to achieve and when I wish to lift a heavier weight, I can do it with more ease than previously. By lighter weights, I mean 5-6kg dumbbells. I might return to heavier lifting at some point.0 -
you can train your muscles to lift more and not gain = strength gains…
you can eat in a surplus and train in 8-12 rep range and increase size = size gains…
The different to me is that to lift in the 8-12 rep range you typically have to reduce weight, so that s going to hamper strength gains; where as, when you lift for strength gains you are doing less reps, hence you can handle more weight..that is just my observation and might be complete BS….
I actually try to mix up and do both ..for few months I will work in 4-6 rep range and then change to 8-10 rep range...0 -
you can train your muscles to lift more and not gain = strength gains…
you can eat in a surplus and train in 8-12 rep range and increase size = size gains…
The different to me is that to lift in the 8-12 rep range you typically have to reduce weight, so that s going to hamper strength gains; where as, when you lift for strength gains you are doing less reps, hence you can handle more weight..that is just my observation and might be complete BS….
I actually try to mix up and do both ..for few months I will work in 4-6 rep range and then change to 8-10 rep range...
Mixing things up sounds like a good idea and one I had been considering.
I think I might try that.0 -
A lot of times people mistake the fact a lot of very strong people might not want to use all their strength all at once, or even be trained to use all at once, because a lot of lifts are very from dependent and that tends to break down past your 3rep max. You can find 1 rep max calculators online and they are not 100% spot on, but as you change up your weights and rep ranges you will find you are very close. Also the tempo has a lot to do with it also. Its a bit of a let down but a lot of the small people just are not as strong as they think they are. A lot of the bigger guys are just not going after that one rep max but it doesn't make them less strong.0
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AS stated by a previous poster, initial gains come mostly neuromuscular adaptation. Really strong people have the ability to recruit many more muscle fibers per contraction than a normal person. And as stated you get to a point where you have to get bigger to get stronger but you can gain lots of strength initially without mass gains.0
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Nothing like seeing someone with 12-inch-upper-arms bench over 300lbs or someone at a bodyweight of 160lbs squat nearly 800 pounds. I've seen many small guys out lift huge bodybuilders.
It really is a perplexing subject. Maybe some people gain muscle easier than gaining strength, and others gain strength much easier than muscle. I would say genetics, hormones, and the type of training have the most impact.0 -
AS stated by a previous poster, initial gains come mostly neuromuscular adaptation. Really strong people have the ability to recruit many more muscle fibers per contraction than a normal person. And as stated you get to a point where you have to get bigger to get stronger but you can gain lots of strength initially without mass gains.
What about increased muscle definition- is that from mass gains? Or can you get increased muscle definition w/o mass gain?
I find this interesting. I just started lifting in January and I'm seeing huge increases in how much I can lift- but no muscle definition yet. (I'm also overweight sooo..... that affects being able to see muscle definition I guess).0 -
Nothing like seeing someone with 12-inch-upper-arms bench over 300lbs or someone at a bodyweight of 160lbs squat nearly 800 pounds. I've seen many small guys out lift huge bodybuilders.
It really is a perplexing subject. Maybe some people gain muscle easier than gaining strength, and others gain strength much easier than muscle. I would say genetics, hormones, and the type of training have the most impact.
What type of training leads to gaining strength and what type to size gains? I wonder which one I'm doing. I'm just lifting dumbbells. And doing planks.0 -
Nothing like seeing someone with 12-inch-upper-arms bench over 300lbs or someone at a bodyweight of 160lbs squat nearly 800 pounds. I've seen many small guys out lift huge bodybuilders.
It really is a perplexing subject. Maybe some people gain muscle easier than gaining strength, and others gain strength much easier than muscle. I would say genetics, hormones, and the type of training have the most impact.
What type of training leads to gaining strength and what type to size gains? I wonder which one I'm doing. I'm just lifting dumbbells. And doing planks.
1-6 reps is considered strength
8-12 is for muscle growth …
I have no idea what seven will do …
my numbers on this may be slightly off...0 -
AS stated by a previous poster, initial gains come mostly neuromuscular adaptation. Really strong people have the ability to recruit many more muscle fibers per contraction than a normal person. And as stated you get to a point where you have to get bigger to get stronger but you can gain lots of strength initially without mass gains.
What about increased muscle definition- is that from mass gains? Or can you get increased muscle definition w/o mass gain?
I find this interesting. I just started lifting in January and I'm seeing huge increases in how much I can lift- but no muscle definition yet. (I'm also overweight sooo..... that affects being able to see muscle definition I guess).
Muscle definition is attributable to shedding the fat that is covering up the muscle. There are huge power lifters who have little to know actual definition because, while they have a lot of muscle, they are not lean and have a lot of fat also. Definition comes from reduction of BF.0 -
Thanks for the replies you 2. Very interesting!0
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AS stated by a previous poster, initial gains come mostly neuromuscular adaptation. Really strong people have the ability to recruit many more muscle fibers per contraction than a normal person. And as stated you get to a point where you have to get bigger to get stronger but you can gain lots of strength initially without mass gains.
What about increased muscle definition- is that from mass gains? Or can you get increased muscle definition w/o mass gain?
I find this interesting. I just started lifting in January and I'm seeing huge increases in how much I can lift- but no muscle definition yet. (I'm also overweight sooo..... that affects being able to see muscle definition I guess).
Muscle definition is attributable to shedding the fat that is covering up the muscle. There are huge power lifters who have little to know actual definition because, while they have a lot of muscle, they are not lean and have a lot of fat also. Definition comes from reduction of BF.
It's more than just fat reduction. If you don't have the muscles in the first place, they won't show. For example, I've never had abs, but am just starting to get them now, due to compound lifts and a bulking diet. And if anything I've gained fat in that area.
Just wanted to point this out.
(Figure of speech, btw...of course I had abs before...just not developed enough to be visible.)0 -
See this video:
http://youtu.be/Pr7CjohG9qI
That is a 554 lb deadlift by a woman who weighs 150 lbs. I wouldn't say she is bulky or "big." But, you may have a different opinion.
I'd like to add Richard Hawthorne, deadlifts 639.4lbs @ 131#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsLecUbVf74 0 -
Everybody's different.0
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Not particularly big in size, but unquestionably strong.
Credit to Mark Gonzales, Yoga and Progressive Bodyweight:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152283598018606&set=vb.631873605&type=2&theater0 -
AS stated by a previous poster, initial gains come mostly neuromuscular adaptation. Really strong people have the ability to recruit many more muscle fibers per contraction than a normal person. And as stated you get to a point where you have to get bigger to get stronger but you can gain lots of strength initially without mass gains.
What about increased muscle definition- is that from mass gains? Or can you get increased muscle definition w/o mass gain?
I find this interesting. I just started lifting in January and I'm seeing huge increases in how much I can lift- but no muscle definition yet. (I'm also overweight sooo..... that affects being able to see muscle definition I guess).
Muscle definition is attributable to shedding the fat that is covering up the muscle. There are huge power lifters who have little to know actual definition because, while they have a lot of muscle, they are not lean and have a lot of fat also. Definition comes from reduction of BF.
It's more than just fat reduction. If you don't have the muscles in the first place, they won't show. For example, I've never had abs, but am just starting to get them now, due to compound lifts and a bulking diet. And if anything I've gained fat in that area.
Just wanted to point this out.
(Figure of speech, btw...of course I had abs before...just not developed enough to be visible.)
I guess that explains why anorexics don't have six packs.0 -
Muscle definition is just about losing fat. You can get muscle definition without mass gains, but you will probably look better if there is some mass under the fat that you would lose.AS stated by a previous poster, initial gains come mostly neuromuscular adaptation. Really strong people have the ability to recruit many more muscle fibers per contraction than a normal person. And as stated you get to a point where you have to get bigger to get stronger but you can gain lots of strength initially without mass gains.
What about increased muscle definition- is that from mass gains? Or can you get increased muscle definition w/o mass gain?
I find this interesting. I just started lifting in January and I'm seeing huge increases in how much I can lift- but no muscle definition yet. (I'm also overweight sooo..... that affects being able to see muscle definition I guess).0 -
Nothing like seeing someone with 12-inch-upper-arms bench over 300lbs or someone at a bodyweight of 160lbs squat nearly 800 pounds. I've seen many small guys out lift huge bodybuilders.
It really is a perplexing subject. Maybe some people gain muscle easier than gaining strength, and others gain strength much easier than muscle. I would say genetics, hormones, and the type of training have the most impact.
What type of training leads to gaining strength and what type to size gains? I wonder which one I'm doing. I'm just lifting dumbbells. And doing planks.
diet makes up a large portion of this.
If you are lifting 8-10 and NOT on a surplus- you will be getting stronger- not the same level of stronger as 1-5 range lifting- but if you do not have the surplus- you aren't going to get size.Muscle definition is just about losing fat. You can get muscle definition without mass gains, but you will probably look better if there is some mass under the fat that you would lose.
to a point- if the muscle you have is practically unused- and not dense- it's just not going to look good- no matter how little body fat you have.0 -
1-6 reps is considered strength
8-12 is for muscle growth …
I have no idea what seven will do …
my numbers on this may be slightly off...
Seven reps does nothing. It only makes you want to eat sammiches.0 -
Nothing like seeing someone with 12-inch-upper-arms bench over 300lbs or someone at a bodyweight of 160lbs squat nearly 800 pounds. I've seen many small guys out lift huge bodybuilders.
It really is a perplexing subject. Maybe some people gain muscle easier than gaining strength, and others gain strength much easier than muscle. I would say genetics, hormones, and the type of training have the most impact.
What type of training leads to gaining strength and what type to size gains? I wonder which one I'm doing. I'm just lifting dumbbells. And doing planks.
1-6 reps is considered strength
8-12 is for muscle growth …
I have no idea what seven will do …
my numbers on this may be slightly off...
Biology doesn't work in absolutes anyway,
1-6 reps = strength gains over hypertrophy - you would find hypertrophy increasing until at somewhere around 8 reps it is predominant although strength gains will still be occuring...both will continue to decrease towards 12 reps where endurance will take over, but they will still happen. I wish I could draw a graph on here, would kind of make it easier to understand0 -
tagged for study0
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Thanks for all the replies! Tagged this one for future study.
Was hoping to find more specific studies that have been done on different styles of lifting, diet, etc. and how that effects strength vs. size. Clearly, there are a lot of people out there who are not very big but can lift an immense amount of weight. Would be interesting to know why thats possible.0 -
Let me try this one more time. When ever you lift a weight, you need to do a movement to lift it.
All movements are skills, that need to be learned just like anything else.
With more skill you can move more weight.
Keep in mind skill doesn't equal strength.
So sometimes people moving less weight need to be stronger to make up for the lack of skill. Size and strength go hand and hand but not skill, you can get better at doing something without getting bigger or stronger.0 -
Progressive overload (strength gains over time, or increases in intensity and/or voume/work done) + CALORIC SURPLUS + a strong hormonal base = mass gains.
It's the change over time that dictates mass gains. A guy that benches 290 his first year and 10 years later is benching 350 will make some size gains. The guy benching 125 his first year and 300 10 years later will likely grow more. Many guys are naturally strong for various reasons, independent of muscle mass.
You can also gain strength pretty easily while eating at maintenance or a deficit, with a good workout routine and intelligent diet, supplementation, etc. Not many size gains under this scenario though.
Regarding workout routines for strength vs size. For size gains, pretty much ANY workout routine (under like 30-50 reps per set) will increase size over time as long as total work done increases and the calories and hormones are there. Strength is MUCH more specific. There's a few ways to train for strength, usually using low reps and/or power work.0 -
in0
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I feel like I've gained strength and not mass but changed shape...0
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Nothing like seeing someone with 12-inch-upper-arms bench over 300lbs or someone at a bodyweight of 160lbs squat nearly 800 pounds. I've seen many small guys out lift huge bodybuilders.
It really is a perplexing subject. Maybe some people gain muscle easier than gaining strength, and others gain strength much easier than muscle. I would say genetics, hormones, and the type of training have the most impact.
What type of training leads to gaining strength and what type to size gains? I wonder which one I'm doing. I'm just lifting dumbbells. And doing planks.
1-6 reps is considered strength
8-12 is for muscle growth …
I have no idea what seven will do …
my numbers on this may be slightly off...
Doing 7 reps of any exercise is sort of like dividing by zero.0 -
I actually try to mix up and do both ..for few months I will work in 4-6 rep range and then change to 8-10 rep range...
Good thinking.0 -
I find this interesting. I just started lifting in January and I'm seeing huge increases in how much I can lift- but no muscle definition yet. (I'm also overweight sooo..... that affects being able to see muscle definition I guess).
Exactly so .. You need to drop body fat in order to see muscle definition..that's the only way0 -
are you stronger in the sense you can do more reps or in the sense you can do a heavier weight?
because those aren't the same thing- doing more of a thing past a certain rep range doesn't make you 'stronger' in the traditional sense of the word. Doing more of a thing just means you can do it longer.
Actually it does in a way.. It's still a form of progressive overload...If you increase the volume, more sets, more reps... If you do 4x5 on the bench press for example, and the following week you pull off 5x5 with the same weight, it means you got stronger..0
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