My meeting with a Sports Nutritionist
Replies
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I am skeptical of a few of her points...
Like 97% will regain
Must eat breakfast
Need more calories when ovulating
weight themselves regularly then says don't if you are a weight lifter...
eating specific things after a workout...
last but not least only eat when you are hungry even if you have calories to fill...hunger is not the best way to tell what the body needs.
Some are fine tho like eating the same on a rest day as an exercise day, not using the scale only but measurments etc...and yes you can build muslce if you are NEW to lifting...or obese.
Was thinking the same thing and the whole... whoa your apple is more like 140 calories... um, where did she pull that number from? Did she have a scale and weigh it?0 -
Honestly it reads to me like she's mostly using correlations. Which are fine if a person isn't counting calories, but counting negates a lot of it. For example, having a small dinner seems mostly intended to cause a person to eat less calories overall without bothering to count. But if a person keeps calories equal there's no difference between a small breakfast/large dinner and the inverse.
The question is whether she is targeting calorie counters and I'm going to guess that she isn't. It's the same issue with the American Heart Association's message on refined sugar. We all (the self identified group here) agree that refined sugar isn't "bad" but what is being said is to cut it down because it's an easy way to cut calories.
Her main thing isn't even weight loss. Almost all of her materials are aimed at athletes, not obese people.
http://www.nancyclarkrd.com/books/index.asp
That's okay, but I think for our present purposes it's still a valid point of discussion. If we keep talking studies, to some extent we are preaching to the choir as every one of "us" understands this. And, I know messaging may be my pet subject but we are trying to get through to the silent majority on here simply creeping the forums and trying to learn.0 -
Nutritionists want to make it seem more difficult than it really is for people without medical conditions to lose weight.
Basic principles:
To lose weight eat less calories than you burn in a day
To maintain weight eat the same calories than you burn in a day
To gain weight eat more calories than you burn in a day
Eat a balanced, well rounded diet, no need to eliminate foods, practice moderation
Get out an exercise a little.
There's no magic potion here. There's no hoodoo voodoo. But, the average nutritionist wouldn't be in business if everyone knew it was really this simple. So there's all these bro-science / myth rules that people have to go pay for... because honestly, if you went to the nutritionist, and paid for sessions that probably weren't cheap, and got the above basic principle information, a.) would you feel silly and like you wasted your money? and b.) would you even need to go back?
case and point.0 -
saving all your calories until dinner causes you to gain weight; you are supposed to fuel during the day and lose weight while you are sleeping - so eat the majority of your calories throughout the day and SPOIL YOUR APPETITE for dinner and then just have something light
Really????
Then I should be 100 pounds over weight right now0 -
My thoughts:
I would suggest the percentages on this forum are different. If you keep a weights regime up after losing weight, you will gain muscle. If you didn't have a weights regime before, you likely gained the muscle you needed to move the fat around. This will happen again.- weight loss of more than 1 lb. per week is 97% likely to be regained and lost muscle tissue is replaced by fat when regained
If this had been clarified with a 'some' it would be better to me. Many, many people find eating breakfast harmful to weight loss, myself included.- people who KEEP weight off do the following: eat breakfast, don't allow themselves to get overly hungry, eat everything in moderation, exercise, weigh themselves regularly and keep a food journal.
As above, maybe that amount of extra calories in total a month? Please try and offer some clarification before posting figures that people could easily take as a daily value!- when ovulating, women can need an additional 300-500 calories, so instead of feeling like you have no willpower when you are PMS'ing, you should eat more.....your body needs it
Actually, if you've eaten before a workout, it's not really THAT essential. If you are looking to put on muscle, then certainly don't skip the carbs, but a lot of people trying to lose weight are merely doing weights workouts to maintain and may cut back on carbs for the sake of reducing calories.- eating protein AND carbs after working out is essential - carbs fuel, protein rebuilds....we need both
I'm sure plenty of studies have disproved this. I think this was thought to be the case at some point, but current research has proved it's not.- saving all your calories until dinner causes you to gain weight; you are supposed to fuel during the day and lose weight while you are sleeping - so eat the majority of your calories throughout the day and SPOIL YOUR APPETITE for dinner and then just have something light
Figures sound very pulled out of the air. And unlikely for many people - very obese, more likely maybe. Gaining strength for a good period - more likely again.- you CAN gain muscle on a deficit for the first 6 months of starting a weightlifting program and then you plateau
Can work just fine and gives you THE BEST idea of what deficit you are actually on.- using a scale as the only method to assess your progress is a BAD idea, especially if you are weight training; instead, use your mirror, tape measure, and how your clothes fit. if you see less fat, you are losing fat, even if the scale is not moving much.
Not for all people again, but I'd tend to agree more likely for the people that need to lose weight.- sustainable weight loss is about managing your intake and NOT allowing yourself to get overly hungry is really important. When you allow yourself to get overly hungry, your body has a physiological response that causes you to overeat, and you ultimately take in more calories than you would have consumed if you had just kept up with your hunger
Many dieters manage periods of hunger just fine too.- you should eat when your body is showing signs of hunger - it is a sign that all the energy you gave it has been used up and it needs more fuel to keep going. You should stay in the 4-5 range, where 1 is starving and 10 is stuffed and 5 is content. Most dieters stay in the 3 range, are always hungry, and "blow" their eating because their body rebels eventually and they overeat. That is why managing your hunger is hugely important.
And if you're building muscle, you're increasing weight. Fine if you're looking to put on weight.- you need to eat just as many calories on your rest day as your workout days to rebuild your muscles, so go ahead and eat when you are hungry on your off day....it's beneficial
How did she know? Did she account for the fact you likely wouldn't eat it all, leaving the core and so on?- metabolic damage is a REAL thing, but you have to eat very little to cause it - and you will know it's happening because you will be hungry all the time, day in and day out.....and that is not sustainable. Most people underestimate the calories they are consuming....for example, my 80 calorie apple I was munching while we met was really 140 calories, she told me!
Again, some people do. More, if your are already at a big deficit, it IS good to eat when you're not hungry to ensure your body is kept well fueled.- You DO NOT need to eat when you aren't hungry just to meet a calorie goal (unless you are underweight). Your body is the best calorie counter there is, she said. And apparently I am right on track!0 -
saving all your calories until dinner causes you to gain weight; you are supposed to fuel during the day and lose weight while you are sleeping - so eat the majority of your calories throughout the day and SPOIL YOUR APPETITE for dinner and then just have something light
Really????
Then I should be 100 pounds over weight right now
I know, right?
This woman and Martin Berkhan would have a lovely conversation I bet.0 -
No she just said midway through your cycle, around ovulation when PMS starts and women tend to get hungrier....and it's because they need a little more calories. I don't know why, but this woman is very legit, so I am trusting her. She consults with all the Boston sports teams, marathon runners, etc.
People can take what they want from my notes. I'm just passing it along and not everyone will believe, or want to accept, what she's saying. In the end, folks will believe what works for them.
Here is the answer:
When an egg is released but isn’t fertilized, the body secretes progesterone to start the menstrual flow. If no egg is released, the surge in progesterone doesn’t occur. Progesterone has a thermogenic effect; in other words, it makes heat. To produce the heat, energy — in the form of calories — is burned.
Actually, progesterone surges after the egg is released to help prepare the body for implantation/pregnancy (progesterone - pro gestation). If the egg is not fertilized, both estrogen and progesterone drop, causing the menstrual period to begin.
Progesterone does increase heat in the body. A small increase in basal body temperature can be detected. Some women trying to concieve will track temperature to identify when ovulation occured. You can also see the temp drop when menstruation begins. A continuing increased temp is a good first sign that you may be pregnant.
Doctors may also test for progesterone surges to confirm a woman is ovulating.
Progesterone increases with pregnancy.
(by higher temperature I mean very small, you need a thermometer that reads two decimals place unlike the regular ones that have only one).
I don't totally disagree with everything she said but a few of the things made me question. The 300 - 500 calories extra being one of them.0 -
OP, I found your post very informative and interesting. I actually do most of what the nutritionist says to do (except for the PMS thing). If I don't eat breakfast I tend to overeat during the day. Breakfast sets the tone for my day. For some people its the other way around. That's cool too. I *try* to make dinner my smallest meal of the day and for the most part succeed.
Anyway, thank you for taking the time to post this for us.0 -
Thank you for taking the time to share this! Very informative and just plain common sense. She's the expert and I believe what she says. Pay no attention to all the crackpots coming out of the MFP woodwork to dispute what she told you and 'prove her wrong!'0
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Meh. Some of her information is good, and some is flat out wrong.
This
^that0 -
Bump to read later.0
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The progesterone issue probably doesn't come into play for most women. It might, however, for someone who is under medical care and needs extra calories to deal with shedding meconium, blood loss, iron depletion, etc.
Shedding meconium? Meconium is the first thick dark green stool that a newborn passes the first day or two after birth, or vary rarely before birth when a fetus is in distress. If a woman is shedding it, something is wrong!0 -
Thank you for taking the time to share this! Very informative and just plain common sense. She's the expert and I believe what she says. Pay no attention to all the crackpots coming out of the MFP woodwork to dispute what she told you and 'prove her wrong!'
Crackpots? Who might they be?
Also, I can link lots of experts in the field that would refuse some of these claims. Are they crackpots?
What exactly is your definition of a crackpot?0 -
As a scientist I would like to remind people of the "Half-life of facts", which says that over time half of what you know to be true will be untrue.
Skepticism and questioning facts are vital to progress. Hating on a forum that, at it's core, is supposed to encourage and inspire users to lose weight is wrong.0 -
- weight loss of more than 1 lb. per week is 97% likely to be regained and lost muscle tissue is replaced by fat when regained
- people who KEEP weight off do the following: eat breakfast, don't allow themselves to get overly hungry, eat everything in moderation, exercise, weigh themselves regularly and keep a food journal.
- eating protein AND carbs after working out is essential - carbs fuel, protein rebuilds....we need both
- saving all your calories until dinner causes you to gain weight; you are supposed to fuel during the day and lose weight while you are sleeping - so eat the majority of your calories throughout the day and SPOIL YOUR APPETITE for dinner and then just have something light
these are all bunk ..
1 pound per week loss is considered safe and is a standard for most to meet. I lost 1 pound per week and have not gained it all back, and I am going on year seven.
You do not need to eat breakfast to keep weight off. I did IF and skipped breakfast for eight months and LOST body fat ( I was in a calorie deficit)
as long as you maintain your calorie deficit it does not matter when you eat or how frequently you eat..you can eat one meal day, six meals a day, or three meals day. I personally eat about four times a day.
It does not matter when you get your nutrition, as long as you are hitting your macro targets for the day you will be fine. Meal timing is a myth.0 -
As a scientist I would like to remind people of the "Half-life of facts", which says that over time half of what you know to be true will be untrue.
Skepticism and questioning facts are vital to progress. Hating on a forum that, at it's core, is supposed to encourage and inspire users to lose weight is wrong.
No one here is hating. There are several different discussions going on and a few disagreements. That is how we debate and drill down to the truth, or at least the truth that we can currently know. Let's allow that to happen.0 -
Skepticism and questioning facts are vital to progress. Hating on a forum that, at it's core, is supposed to encourage and inspire users to lose weight is wrong.
.... The first part seems to contradict the second.0 -
so it is negative to correct wrong information?WOW. There sure is a lot of negativity. I appreciate the time you took to post this information. It's a shame that some people want to bash what you said. If the info is not applicable to you...move on. This is supposed to be a supportive group. Thanks for sharing. Maybe not all of it will be applicable to me but some is. Thanks!0 -
Your nutritionist is pulling numbers from stats in some cases rather than established science.
Breakfast isn't necessary to lose weight. Just the people who have successfully lost weight tend to eat breakfast.
Eating a small dinner isn't necessary to lose weight. Just the people who have successfully lost weight tend to eat small dinners.
These are correlations, not actual causes.
That's simply not true, but if it makes you feel better to believe she's not using science, I'm sure there is nothing I could say to convince you otherwise. :bigsmile:
There are plenty of ways to lose weight and nowhere in my post did I say you could only lose weight with the tips she gave me. Nowhere. She gave me scientifically sound guidelines that tend to work and be sustainable for most people - based on research. But if you want to lose weight eating just Twinkies, I'm sure it can be done. Will most people fail to sustain that type of weightloss? Yup.
sorry hun, but her "scientifically sound guidelines" are mainly broscience….and just dead wrong...0 -
Skepticism and questioning facts are vital to progress. Hating on a forum that, at it's core, is supposed to encourage and inspire users to lose weight is wrong.
.... The first part seems to contradict the second.
In my opinion they don't.
I can question your "facts" and promote what I believe to be true without it descending into an argument.0 -
When an egg is released but isn’t fertilized, the body secretes progesterone to start the menstrual flow.
This is incorrect.
Progesterone is secreted starting with ovulation to prepare the uterus for implantation of the fertilized egg. If there is a pregnancy, progesterone secretion continues.
If the egg isn't fertilized, progesterone secretion drops off and the uterine lining sloughed off.
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Meh. Some of her information is good, and some is flat out wrong.
VJ, why so negative??????0 -
Thank you for taking the time to share this! Very informative and just plain common sense. She's the expert and I believe what she says. Pay no attention to all the crackpots coming out of the MFP woodwork to dispute what she told you and 'prove her wrong!'
Crackpots? Most of the "crackpots" you are referring to here are very intelligent people who have had outstanding success in both weight loss and physical fitness. And most spend a great deal of time helping people on here and have much more than a sub-basic understanding of physiology and nutrition.
Can you claim any of that? I doubt it.0 -
Skepticism and questioning facts are vital to progress. Hating on a forum that, at it's core, is supposed to encourage and inspire users to lose weight is wrong.
.... The first part seems to contradict the second.
In my opinion they don't.
I can question your "facts" and promote what I believe to be true without it descending into an argument.
It was OP who came back with the snarky "darlin" in regards to those questioning the facts.0 -
Skepticism and questioning facts are vital to progress. Hating on a forum that, at it's core, is supposed to encourage and inspire users to lose weight is wrong.
.... The first part seems to contradict the second.
In my opinion they don't.
I can question your "facts" and promote what I believe to be true without it descending into an argument.
Questioning someone's facts and promoting your own opinion instead is pretty much the definition of an argument.0 -
LOL I would like to see scientific evidence that woman need extra calories when they release a microscopic egg during ovulation. The rest of this is common sense. Hope you didn't pay too much money for this "consultation".
Well, she is a scientist and nutritionist who trained at Mass General, so I do think she is basing this on research, darlin'.....just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it isn't true.
Bless your heart, OP. :yawn:0 -
Honestly it reads to me like she's mostly using correlations. Which are fine if a person isn't counting calories, but counting negates a lot of it. For example, having a small dinner seems mostly intended to cause a person to eat less calories overall without bothering to count. But if a person keeps calories equal there's no difference between a small breakfast/large dinner and the inverse.
The question is whether she is targeting calorie counters and I'm going to guess that she isn't. It's the same issue with the American Heart Association's message on refined sugar. We all (the self identified group here) agree that refined sugar isn't "bad" but what is being said is to cut it down because it's an easy way to cut calories.
please don't turn into a sugar thread…please don't turn into a sugar thread…please don't turn into a sugar thread….0 -
When an egg is released but isn’t fertilized, the body secretes progesterone to start the menstrual flow.
This is incorrect.
Progesterone is secreted starting with ovulation to prepare the uterus for implantation of the fertilized egg. If there is a pregnancy, progesterone secretion continues.
If the egg isn't fertilized, progesterone secretion drops off and the uterine lining sloughed off.
:laugh:
I continue to be amazed at the wealth of misinformation that gets posted on MFP regarding women's cycles. And most of it gets posted by women.0 -
What is broscience? I'm assuming it's the same as psuedoscience?
I posted my notes to be helpful and folks can take what's helpful and leave the rest.
The stats she gave me are based on research and are widely available. People need to remember that while the vast majority of people who lose weight quickly regain it plus more, there are plenty of people (that 3%) who don't.
I am hoping this post is helpful for those of us who are losing slowly - that research supports that slow loss is easier to sustain. It's not meant to bash anyone's success.
If someone can pick out the useful from the not useful, they didn't need your post. If they can't pick it out, the info isn't that useful either.
That said; 2, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 are meh.
Not sure about 3. Seems iffy.
That leaves 1, 6, and 7 being maybe OK.0 -
Every body works differently, I didn't eat breakfast during my first 20 lbs lost. I started eating breakfast because I didn't want to lose as fast as I was, and I'm still losing weight. I also used to eat dinner as my biggest meal of the day, being about 700-800 calories out of a 1300-1400 calorie day. And I lost weight fine...maybe these things she's SUGGESTING are for people who half *kitten* it in the gym and need extra help watching what they eat.
I'm not a noob either; I went from 165 to 145 in a couple of years, maintained that. Cut 20 lbs off. Then gained another 15 lbs of fat and muscle due to heavy lifting/bulking. Then last year I decided to drop down to what I'm aiming for now before I build some more muscle.
You can do all the research you want, but at the end of the day it's about each person experimenting with different methods to find what works for them, as opposed to taking someone's word as law because, "..but research! Statistics and numbers!" Things that can be correlational and not causational!0
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