Fruit Myth... Fact or fiction.
Replies
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This is how I understand it: A complete fruit is good nutrition. A juiced fruit is pretty much all sugar with some trace vitamins and minerals.
But most important of all - log what you eat and stay within a healthy calorie budget.
Um, no. A juiced fruit is the same as the complete fruit, except with the fiber removed. Unless you put some of the pulp back in the juice, in which case you have some of the fiber back. Juicing the fruit doesn't put more sugar in than there was in the whole fruit. It doesn't remove nutrients, either.
But the fiber is a good thing. That's one of the reasons we're told to eat fruit and vegetables. They are high in fiber.0 -
The fruit content of the diet you are considering is the least of your concerns. How about essential fatty acids, amino acids, vitamins and minerals. The vegan diet is not healthy as a long term option.
It can be healthy (vegan, not raw vegan, as I am not sure how you would really get enough EAAs and have a paletable diet).
You can get all EFA, EAAs, vitamins and minerals with a vegan diet - it just takes more planning.
I believe you are correct; however, you probably would have to supplement with B12 at least and probably some others for optimal health. However, the OP I don't think has any idea so I wanted her to at least consider what she is about to undertake. I believe many people see a massive short term health benefit in a raw vegan diet by eliminating the crap they were eating, but in the long term hurt their health by eating raw vegan.0 -
Theres loads of sugar in fruit if you blend them to make smoothies! Otherwise its just natural sugar which is better for you than normal sugar
Strawberries help the metalobism, but you can just live on fruit and veg on your diet! Jeeesh! It will be called 's.hit yourself slim'
surely there's the same amount of sugar in fruit regardless of how its taken in?0 -
By not placing any qualifiers on "fruits and vegetables with a variety of nuts are a flawless diet" you were saying that it was a "flawless diet" for anyone, by default, due to the nature of the language. The additional qualifiers you're now placing on the statement are either backpedaling, moving the goalposts, or both.Did you hear about that guy who died from eating fruit and vegetables? Nah me either. Probably because fruits and vegetables with a variety of nuts are a flawless diet.
Pre-Med - Future PA
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Nutritionist
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1 banana pushes my blood sugar sky high. Not flawless for me ;-)
In fact, I take issue with the whole concept of a "flawless diet". Humans are omnivorous. Any "diet" can be done wrong, and I don't think that any one diet is going to fill the needs and resources of any one population. Flexibility, taste, culture, traditions, availability etc etc all have to be factored in.
I think you have an issue with the context of the direction rather than the diet itself. I never said it was medically specific to a person whom has restrictions each diet is in part each individuals but in terms of nutrients it is flawless by that I mean simply that everything the body needs can be found in one or more of those substances mentioned. Now keep in mind the knowledge of where to find them is gained, by that I mean there are nuts out there I could name that you would need to google to find, that would have everything you can imagine. Learned about it in Med class.
I never said it was a flawless diet "for you" or "for her" or "for anyone" the flawless was a reference to nutritional capacity0 -
The fruit content of the diet you are considering is the least of your concerns. How about essential fatty acids, amino acids, vitamins and minerals. The vegan diet is not healthy as a long term option.
It can be healthy (vegan, not raw vegan, as I am not sure how you would really get enough EAAs and have a paletable diet).
You can get all EFA, EAAs, vitamins and minerals with a vegan diet - it just takes more planning.
I believe you are correct; however, you probably would have to supplement with B12 at least and probably some others for optimal health. However, the OP I don't think has any idea so I wanted her to at least consider what she is about to undertake. I believe many people see a massive short term health benefit in a raw vegan diet by eliminating the crap they were eating, but in the long term hurt their health by eating raw vegan.
Yes I think a lot of people are totally mistaken (misled!) about the alleged health benefits and potential dangers of these diets.
IMO the problem is that there are a bunch of vegan propagandists who are not only pushing an unhealthy version of the vegan diet, they're also lying (or kidding themselves or are in denial) about what nutrition humans actually need, to justify the diet that they're eating. Fruitarians do the same thing, only a more extreme version of it. It's the same pattern of meeting criticism of the diet by denying that humans actually need what they're not getting from the diet.
I've yet to see a healthy version of the raw vegan diet. I have seen healthy versions of the regular vegan diet where cooking isn't considered as evil and the diet is supplemented with a small number of vitamins and minerals, many of which are found in fortified vegan foods, and careful attention is paid to getting all the nutrition needed, especially with regards to getting amino acids in the right balance.
Fact is that humans are omnivores and while it's possible to get enough nutrition on a vegan diet, a healthy vegan diet is an imitation of an omnivorous diet, i.e. similar macronutrient ratios, amino acid and fatty acid profiles and micronutrients in similar proportions to what you get on an omnivorous diet, plus supplementing some vitamins and minerals that can't be obtained from plant food at all. Staring from the premise that humans are herbivores then recommending the macros and micronutrients that a herbivorous diet would provide as ideal for humans is stupid and dangerous. But that's exactly what some of these raw vegans 80/10/10 vegans and fruitarians are doing.
Also the amount of people kidding themselves that their diet is healthy when it's not (from 80/10/10 vegans, raw vegans, fruitarians, the lot) is disturbing.0 -
The fruit content of the diet you are considering is the least of your concerns. How about essential fatty acids, amino acids, vitamins and minerals. The vegan diet is not healthy as a long term option.
It can be healthy (vegan, not raw vegan, as I am not sure how you would really get enough EAAs and have a paletable diet).
You can get all EFA, EAAs, vitamins and minerals with a vegan diet - it just takes more planning.
I believe you are correct; however, you probably would have to supplement with B12 at least and probably some others for optimal health. However, the OP I don't think has any idea so I wanted her to at least consider what she is about to undertake. I believe many people see a massive short term health benefit in a raw vegan diet by eliminating the crap they were eating, but in the long term hurt their health by eating raw vegan.
You can get fortified foods with B12 - but you are correct in that it is something to be mindful of.
However, I doubt most non vegans get all of their nutrients for optimal health, even though it's easier.
A balanced diet is a balanced diet, whether it includes animal based foods. That being said, being a vegan makes it harder, so I see no reason to be a vegan for other than ethical reasons.0 -
This is how I understand it: A complete fruit is good nutrition. A juiced fruit is pretty much all sugar with some trace vitamins and minerals.
But most important of all - log what you eat and stay within a healthy calorie budget.
Um, no. A juiced fruit is the same as the complete fruit, except with the fiber removed. Unless you put some of the pulp back in the juice, in which case you have some of the fiber back. Juicing the fruit doesn't put more sugar in than there was in the whole fruit. It doesn't remove nutrients, either.
But the fiber is a good thing. That's one of the reasons we're told to eat fruit and vegetables. They are high in fiber.
there are many sources of fiber. You have some juiced fruits and some whole fruits, or some of both. There's nothing saying you only have to eat whole fruits and vegetables to get the nutrients from them. Moderation, remember? Toss some meat, bread and dairy in there and now you've got a well-rounded day. (Unless you're intolerant, now there's trouble.)0 -
Oh Lord. First, start educating yourself BY yourself. Do your own research from valid sources. People will confuse the heck out of you.
This is really all that needs to be said. Read about everything, including raw, vegan, vegetarian, paleo, and keto, and then decide for yourself. Pay more attention to information that has peer-reviewed science to back it up, but don't assume that even THAT is 100% gospel, as new studies contradict old studies all the time (and very bad science can be peer-reviewed: see the China Study for an example).
Honestly, as a professional researcher, I've seen some threads on MFP with bad advice and people throwing out garbage science that they seem to think is scientific fact. But this thread is absolutely the worst I've ever seen.
The Fitness sub-Reddit might be a better place to ask questions like this. You'll still find plenty of anti-science, but their forum structure is much more self-correcting than MFP. http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/0 -
of course there is, American government and society is so healthy and thin, with such low rates of cancer, compared to india or other more vegetarian countries. But hey the government of America would never lie to their people I'd strongly recommend you "consider the source".
To be fair the very study you quoted is German.
Also, the source is never as important as the scientific process and/or evidence. You should always look to find faults with either of the latter, because discounting a study due to source alone is lazy.0 -
Yes I think a lot of people are totally mistaken (misled!) about the alleged health benefits and potential dangers of these diets.
IMO the problem is that there are a bunch of vegan propagandists who are not only pushing an unhealthy version of the vegan diet, they're also lying (or kidding themselves or are in denial) about what nutrition humans actually need, to justify the diet that they're eating. Fruitarians do the same thing, only a more extreme version of it. It's the same pattern of meeting criticism of the diet by denying that humans actually need what they're not getting from the diet.
I've yet to see a healthy version of the raw vegan diet. I have seen healthy versions of the regular vegan diet where cooking isn't considered as evil and the diet is supplemented with a small number of vitamins and minerals, many of which are found in fortified vegan foods, and careful attention is paid to getting all the nutrition needed, especially with regards to getting amino acids in the right balance.
Fact is that humans are omnivores and while it's possible to get enough nutrition on a vegan diet, a healthy vegan diet is an imitation of an omnivorous diet, i.e. similar macronutrient ratios, amino acid and fatty acid profiles and micronutrients in similar proportions to what you get on an omnivorous diet, plus supplementing some vitamins and minerals that can't be obtained from plant food at all. Staring from the premise that humans are herbivores then recommending the macros and micronutrients that a herbivorous diet would provide as ideal for humans is stupid and dangerous. But that's exactly what some of these raw vegans 80/10/10 vegans and fruitarians are doing.
Also the amount of people kidding themselves that their diet is healthy when it's not (from 80/10/10 vegans, raw vegans, fruitarians, the lot) is disturbing.
My ex-wife thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail on a vegan diet, with no ill effects. She's been vegan for 20 years and her doctor said she's healthiest 45 year old she's ever cared for.0 -
Yes I think a lot of people are totally mistaken (misled!) about the alleged health benefits and potential dangers of these diets.
IMO the problem is that there are a bunch of vegan propagandists who are not only pushing an unhealthy version of the vegan diet, they're also lying (or kidding themselves or are in denial) about what nutrition humans actually need, to justify the diet that they're eating. Fruitarians do the same thing, only a more extreme version of it. It's the same pattern of meeting criticism of the diet by denying that humans actually need what they're not getting from the diet.
I've yet to see a healthy version of the raw vegan diet. I have seen healthy versions of the regular vegan diet where cooking isn't considered as evil and the diet is supplemented with a small number of vitamins and minerals, many of which are found in fortified vegan foods, and careful attention is paid to getting all the nutrition needed, especially with regards to getting amino acids in the right balance.
Fact is that humans are omnivores and while it's possible to get enough nutrition on a vegan diet, a healthy vegan diet is an imitation of an omnivorous diet, i.e. similar macronutrient ratios, amino acid and fatty acid profiles and micronutrients in similar proportions to what you get on an omnivorous diet, plus supplementing some vitamins and minerals that can't be obtained from plant food at all. Staring from the premise that humans are herbivores then recommending the macros and micronutrients that a herbivorous diet would provide as ideal for humans is stupid and dangerous. But that's exactly what some of these raw vegans 80/10/10 vegans and fruitarians are doing.
Also the amount of people kidding themselves that their diet is healthy when it's not (from 80/10/10 vegans, raw vegans, fruitarians, the lot) is disturbing.
My ex-wife thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail on a vegan diet, with no ill effects. She's been vegan for 20 years and her doctor said she's healthiest 45 year old she's ever cared for.
where did I say that it wasn't possible to be healthy on a vegan diet?0 -
Yeah my doctor said I'd grow up to be a pro ball player tooYes I think a lot of people are totally mistaken (misled!) about the alleged health benefits and potential dangers of these diets.
IMO the problem is that there are a bunch of vegan propagandists who are not only pushing an unhealthy version of the vegan diet, they're also lying (or kidding themselves or are in denial) about what nutrition humans actually need, to justify the diet that they're eating. Fruitarians do the same thing, only a more extreme version of it. It's the same pattern of meeting criticism of the diet by denying that humans actually need what they're not getting from the diet.
I've yet to see a healthy version of the raw vegan diet. I have seen healthy versions of the regular vegan diet where cooking isn't considered as evil and the diet is supplemented with a small number of vitamins and minerals, many of which are found in fortified vegan foods, and careful attention is paid to getting all the nutrition needed, especially with regards to getting amino acids in the right balance.
Fact is that humans are omnivores and while it's possible to get enough nutrition on a vegan diet, a healthy vegan diet is an imitation of an omnivorous diet, i.e. similar macronutrient ratios, amino acid and fatty acid profiles and micronutrients in similar proportions to what you get on an omnivorous diet, plus supplementing some vitamins and minerals that can't be obtained from plant food at all. Staring from the premise that humans are herbivores then recommending the macros and micronutrients that a herbivorous diet would provide as ideal for humans is stupid and dangerous. But that's exactly what some of these raw vegans 80/10/10 vegans and fruitarians are doing.
Also the amount of people kidding themselves that their diet is healthy when it's not (from 80/10/10 vegans, raw vegans, fruitarians, the lot) is disturbing.
My ex-wife thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail on a vegan diet, with no ill effects. She's been vegan for 20 years and her doctor said she's healthiest 45 year old she's ever cared for.0 -
Facepalm. It comes from the food!my question would be 'where is the protein going to come from'?
Protein comes from raw fruits and veggies? I guess all us stupid meatheads have been doing it wrong all this time....0 -
Case in point.
Well there is an association with vegetarians and mental illnessThese threads always bring out the weirdos....
I.C.E. Cream Official Tester
IKEA Professional Put Together-er
Kickboxing Class Attender
Been in fitness for about 2 years and have studied kitty-gif-ology, nutrition and Dinosaurs
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22676203
Hey!
of course there is, American government and society is so healthy and thin, with such low rates of cancer, compared to india or other more vegetarian countries. But hey the government of America would never lie to their people I'd strongly recommend you "consider the source".
While I don't trust the government either, I don't see how they would benefit from lying about this.0 -
Facepalm. It comes from the food!my question would be 'where is the protein going to come from'?
Protein comes from raw fruits and veggies? I guess all us stupid meatheads have been doing it wrong all this time....
The average American eats twice as much protein than they need. 56 grams for men and 46 for women is considered what your daily intake should be.
Vegetarian/vegan sources of protein
1. One cup of cooked quinoa provides about 18 grams of protein.
2. One cup of canned kidney beans contains about 13.4 grams of protein.
3. A half-cup of tofu contains 10 grams, and soy milk contains 7 grams of protein per cup.
4. Two tablespoons of peanut butter contains about 8 grams of protein.
5. One veggie patty contains about 10 grams of protein, and 100 grams of seitan provides 21 grams of protein.
6. One serving of tempeh (100 grams) provides about 18 grams of protein.
7. Peas - One cup contains 7.9 grams
8. Chickpeas - ontain 7.3 grams of protein in just half a cup
9. Two cups of raw spinach, for example, contain 2.1 grams of protein
10. One cup of chopped broccoli contains 8.1 grams.
There are 10 sources and there are plenty others.0 -
Facepalm. It comes from the food!my question would be 'where is the protein going to come from'?
Protein comes from raw fruits and veggies? I guess all us stupid meatheads have been doing it wrong all this time....
The average American eats twice as much protein than they need. 56 grams for men and 46 for women is considered what your daily intake should be.
Vegetarian/vegan sources of protein
1. One cup of cooked quinoa provides about 18 grams of protein.
2. One cup of canned kidney beans contains about 13.4 grams of protein.
3. A half-cup of tofu contains 10 grams, and soy milk contains 7 grams of protein per cup.
4. Two tablespoons of peanut butter contains about 8 grams of protein.
5. One veggie patty contains about 10 grams of protein, and 100 grams of seitan provides 21 grams of protein.
6. One serving of tempeh (100 grams) provides about 18 grams of protein.
7. Peas - One cup contains 7.9 grams
8. Chickpeas - ontain 7.3 grams of protein in just half a cup
9. Two cups of raw spinach, for example, contain 2.1 grams of protein
10. One cup of chopped broccoli contains 8.1 grams.
There are 10 sources and there are plenty others.
The average American is not at a deficit and not particularly active. Both make a difference to what your minimum intake should be. Also, the numbers quoted are based on flawed methodology using nitrogen balance as a proxy for MPS.
Also, you need to be careful of the bioavailability and the EAAs in protein, particularly leucine. Not all protein is created equal!0 -
Facepalm. It comes from the food!my question would be 'where is the protein going to come from'?
Protein comes from raw fruits and veggies? I guess all us stupid meatheads have been doing it wrong all this time....
The average American eats twice as much protein than they need. 56 grams for men and 46 for women is considered what your daily intake should be.
Vegetarian/vegan sources of protein
1. One cup of cooked quinoa provides about 18 grams of protein.
2. One cup of canned kidney beans contains about 13.4 grams of protein.
3. A half-cup of tofu contains 10 grams, and soy milk contains 7 grams of protein per cup.
4. Two tablespoons of peanut butter contains about 8 grams of protein.
5. One veggie patty contains about 10 grams of protein, and 100 grams of seitan provides 21 grams of protein.
6. One serving of tempeh (100 grams) provides about 18 grams of protein.
7. Peas - One cup contains 7.9 grams
8. Chickpeas - ontain 7.3 grams of protein in just half a cup
9. Two cups of raw spinach, for example, contain 2.1 grams of protein
10. One cup of chopped broccoli contains 8.1 grams.
There are 10 sources and there are plenty others.
he said raw fruits and veggies though.... you can't eat raw pulses last time I checked.... and definitely not raw kidney beans, they're toxic raw.0 -
This is about a sustainable lifestyle change. If you can't sustain it then don't do it.
THIS0 -
Facepalm. It comes from the food!my question would be 'where is the protein going to come from'?
Protein comes from raw fruits and veggies? I guess all us stupid meatheads have been doing it wrong all this time....
The average American eats twice as much protein than they need. 56 grams for men and 46 for women is considered what your daily intake should be.
Vegetarian/vegan sources of protein
1. One cup of cooked quinoa provides about 18 grams of protein.
2. One cup of canned kidney beans contains about 13.4 grams of protein.
3. A half-cup of tofu contains 10 grams, and soy milk contains 7 grams of protein per cup.
4. Two tablespoons of peanut butter contains about 8 grams of protein.
5. One veggie patty contains about 10 grams of protein, and 100 grams of seitan provides 21 grams of protein.
6. One serving of tempeh (100 grams) provides about 18 grams of protein.
7. Peas - One cup contains 7.9 grams
8. Chickpeas - ontain 7.3 grams of protein in just half a cup
9. Two cups of raw spinach, for example, contain 2.1 grams of protein
10. One cup of chopped broccoli contains 8.1 grams.
There are 10 sources and there are plenty others.
he said raw fruits and veggies though.... you can't eat raw pulses last time I checked.... and definitely not raw kidney beans, they're toxic raw.
The only things that you can actually eat raw from that list are #s 7, 9 and 10 (although I am not sure about the chickpeas).0 -
I believe wood chips are the way to go. Low calories and very filling.0
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Precisely.
Facepalm. It comes from the food!my question would be 'where is the protein going to come from'?
Protein comes from raw fruits and veggies? I guess all us stupid meatheads have been doing it wrong all this time....0 -
First of all, OP the others are right when they say pick a sustainable diet, that doesn't make you miserable. Also,
1. The guy is just trying to say that yes, when you consider fruit vs. candy bar obviously you're going to get things from the fruits that you wont get from that candy bar. I've never known anyone to eat too much fruit, you really have to eat a lot I'd think. And last time I checked an average candy bar had AT LEAST 150 cals, so yes that 80 cal apple is a better choice. But log it.
2. Juicing or blending doesn't magically add sugar to any fruit. It just changes how quickly that sugar hits your blood.
3. Every carb had a GI rating, the higher it is the more quickly it will raise your blood sugar. Stuff like bananas have a pretty high rating. But as does bread. I eat a banana a day and I don't have problems. But I can go to subway and eat a foot long sub and I'm shaking and starving 2 hrs later. Not fun.
4. Also there is protein in most veg, it's not THAT hard for a veg person to meet their macro. Vegan is another story. That ****'s too hard for me.
5. While i totally believe that there are lots of healthy vegan people out there I've also met a few that were really sick, pale, anemic and lacking a lot of vitamins. If you are vegan you really have to supplement.0 -
I believe wood chips are the way to go. Low calories and very filling.
Don't use a red herring. It does nothing to further the debate.0 -
I believe wood chips are the way to go. Low calories and very filling.
Don't use a red herring. It does nothing to further the debate.
but it's funny.
0 -
I believe wood chips are the way to go. Low calories and very filling.
Don't use a red herring. It does nothing to further the debate.
but it's funny.
Not in the middle of a heated debate.0 -
I believe wood chips are the way to go. Low calories and very filling.
Don't use a red herring. It does nothing to further the debate.
but it's funny.
Not in the middle of a heated debate.
awfully quiet for a heated debate.0 -
I believe wood chips are the way to go. Low calories and very filling.
Don't use a red herring. It does nothing to further the debate.
but it's funny.
Not in the middle of a heated debate.
awfully quiet for a heated debate.
You weren't here earlier. It seems to have gotten quiet in the last half hour.0 -
Wait, so why aren't you jacked?0
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So, anecdotal evidence is fine, but sarcasm is bad, during a debate.
Got it.0 -
Ive been a vegetarian for 5 months and Ive never felt better! But that doesn't mean its for everyone! I think all food is okay in moderation, and Ive finally learned after years of yoyo dieting that denying myself what I like or want doesn't make me thin or healthy, just miserable.
I think if you like fruit, you should eat it. In moderation. It is very good for you. Antioxidants, vitamins, fiber, etc...0
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