Fruit Myth... Fact or fiction.

mccindy72

This is how I understand it: A complete fruit is good nutrition. A juiced fruit is pretty much all sugar with some trace vitamins and minerals.

But most important of all - log what you eat and stay within a healthy calorie budget.

Um, no. A juiced fruit is the same as the complete fruit, except with the fiber removed. Unless you put some of the pulp back in the juice, in which case you have some of the fiber back. Juicing the fruit doesn't put more sugar in than there was in the whole fruit. It doesn't remove nutrients, either.

SezxyStef

This is how I understand it: A complete fruit is good nutrition. A juiced fruit is pretty much all sugar with some trace vitamins and minerals.

But most important of all - log what you eat and stay within a healthy calorie budget.

Um, no. A juiced fruit is the same as the complete fruit, except with the fiber removed. Unless you put some of the pulp back in the juice, in which case you have some of the fiber back. Juicing the fruit doesn't put more sugar in than there was in the whole fruit. It doesn't remove nutrients, either.

Yah I am pretty sure my juicer (old fashioned kind) does magically put more sugar in my oranges as it spins ....

lolosensan

This is how I understand it: A complete fruit is good nutrition. A juiced fruit is pretty much all sugar with some trace vitamins and minerals.

But most important of all - log what you eat and stay within a healthy calorie budget.

Um, no. A juiced fruit is the same as the complete fruit, except with the fiber removed. Unless you put some of the pulp back in the juice, in which case you have some of the fiber back. Juicing the fruit doesn't put more sugar in than there was in the whole fruit. It doesn't remove nutrients, either.

Yah I am pretty sure my juicer (old fashioned kind) does magically put more sugar in my oranges as it spins ....

I just want to say that the juice containing more sugar than its fruit is a common misconception and it is silly, yea, but it's not that ridiculous that people think this way. Most of the time when we juice, we're not just juicing a single orange, we're juicing LOTS of oranges, so if you drink a glass of orange juice, you are probably drinking a lot more sugar than if you were to say, eat one single orange. When you drink the juice of 10 fruits, you are getting the same amount of sugar as if you were to eat those 10 fruits, but when do you ever sit down and eat 10 fruits? I just wanted to point that out since people keep saying to be careful of making juices and smoothies and other people keep getting snarky.

TheVeganBuddhist

These threads always bring out the weirdos....

I.C.E. Cream Official Tester
IKEA Professional Put Together-er
Kickboxing Class Attender
Been in fitness for about 2 years and have studied kitty-gif-ology, nutrition and Dinosaurs

Well there is an association with vegetarians and mental illness
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22676203

Hey!

Case in point.

of course there is, American government and society is so healthy and thin, with such low rates of cancer, compared to india or other more vegetarian countries. But hey the government of America would never lie to their people I'd strongly recommend you "consider the source".

bpotts44

The fruit content of the diet you are considering is the least of your concerns. How about essential fatty acids, amino acids, vitamins and minerals. The vegan diet is not healthy as a long term option.

TheVeganBuddhist

Did you hear about that guy who died from eating fruit and vegetables? Nah me either. Probably because fruits and vegetables with a variety of nuts are a flawless diet.

Pre-Med - Future PA

Medical Assistant

Nutritionist

I love education

Flawless eh...I disagree...I can a lot of flaws in it especially for me.....first one being no bacon now there is a flaw.

Ribblets, I had vegan bacon this morning, same taste, well without the fat and grease dripping down your throat

Sarauk2sf

These threads always bring out the weirdos....

I.C.E. Cream Official Tester
IKEA Professional Put Together-er
Kickboxing Class Attender
Been in fitness for about 2 years and have studied kitty-gif-ology, nutrition and Dinosaurs

Well there is an association with vegetarians and mental illness
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22676203

Hey!

Case in point.

of course there is, American government and society is so healthy and thin, with such low rates of cancer, compared to india or other more vegetarian countries. But hey the government of America would never lie to their people I'd strongly recommend you "consider the source".

They were joking! .....more or less

If you want to refute the claim, I strongly suggest that you look at the article.

Sarauk2sf

The fruit content of the diet you are considering is the least of your concerns. How about essential fatty acids, amino acids, vitamins and minerals. The vegan diet is not healthy as a long term option.

It can be healthy (vegan, not raw vegan, as I am not sure how you would really get enough EAAs and have a paletable diet).

You can get all EFA, EAAs, vitamins and minerals with a vegan diet - it just takes more planning.

TheVeganBuddhist

Did you hear about that guy who died from eating fruit and vegetables? Nah me either. Probably because fruits and vegetables with a variety of nuts are a flawless diet.

Pre-Med - Future PA

Medical Assistant

Nutritionist

I love education

1 banana pushes my blood sugar sky high. Not flawless for me ;-)

In fact, I take issue with the whole concept of a "flawless diet". Humans are omnivorous. Any "diet" can be done wrong, and I don't think that any one diet is going to fill the needs and resources of any one population. Flexibility, taste, culture, traditions, availability etc etc all have to be factored in.

I think you have an issue with the context of the direction rather than the diet itself. I never said it was medically specific to a person whom has restrictions each diet is in part each individuals but in terms of nutrients it is flawless by that I mean simply that everything the body needs can be found in one or more of those substances mentioned. Now keep in mind the knowledge of where to find them is gained, by that I mean there are nuts out there I could name that you would need to google to find, that would have everything you can imagine. Learned about it in Med class.

I never said it was a flawless diet "for you" or "for her" or "for anyone" the flawless was a reference to nutritional capacity

Sarauk2sf

my question would be 'where is the protein going to come from'?

Facepalm. It comes from the food!

How do you make sure you get enough leucine for example from a raw vegan diet?

(I know you can from a basic vegan one)

BigVeggieDream

This is how I understand it: A complete fruit is good nutrition. A juiced fruit is pretty much all sugar with some trace vitamins and minerals.

But most important of all - log what you eat and stay within a healthy calorie budget.

Um, no. A juiced fruit is the same as the complete fruit, except with the fiber removed. Unless you put some of the pulp back in the juice, in which case you have some of the fiber back. Juicing the fruit doesn't put more sugar in than there was in the whole fruit. It doesn't remove nutrients, either.

But the fiber is a good thing. That's one of the reasons we're told to eat fruit and vegetables. They are high in fiber.

bpotts44

The fruit content of the diet you are considering is the least of your concerns. How about essential fatty acids, amino acids, vitamins and minerals. The vegan diet is not healthy as a long term option.

It can be healthy (vegan, not raw vegan, as I am not sure how you would really get enough EAAs and have a paletable diet).

You can get all EFA, EAAs, vitamins and minerals with a vegan diet - it just takes more planning.

I believe you are correct; however, you probably would have to supplement with B12 at least and probably some others for optimal health. However, the OP I don't think has any idea so I wanted her to at least consider what she is about to undertake. I believe many people see a massive short term health benefit in a raw vegan diet by eliminating the crap they were eating, but in the long term hurt their health by eating raw vegan.

Trying2Recover

Theres loads of sugar in fruit if you blend them to make smoothies! Otherwise its just natural sugar which is better for you than normal sugar

Strawberries help the metalobism, but you can just live on fruit and veg on your diet! Jeeesh! It will be called 's.hit yourself slim'

surely there's the same amount of sugar in fruit regardless of how its taken in?

RllyGudTweetr

Did you hear about that guy who died from eating fruit and vegetables? Nah me either. Probably because fruits and vegetables with a variety of nuts are a flawless diet.

Pre-Med - Future PA

Medical Assistant

Nutritionist

I love education

1 banana pushes my blood sugar sky high. Not flawless for me ;-)

In fact, I take issue with the whole concept of a "flawless diet". Humans are omnivorous. Any "diet" can be done wrong, and I don't think that any one diet is going to fill the needs and resources of any one population. Flexibility, taste, culture, traditions, availability etc etc all have to be factored in.

I think you have an issue with the context of the direction rather than the diet itself. I never said it was medically specific to a person whom has restrictions each diet is in part each individuals but in terms of nutrients it is flawless by that I mean simply that everything the body needs can be found in one or more of those substances mentioned. Now keep in mind the knowledge of where to find them is gained, by that I mean there are nuts out there I could name that you would need to google to find, that would have everything you can imagine. Learned about it in Med class.

I never said it was a flawless diet "for you" or "for her" or "for anyone" the flawless was a reference to nutritional capacity

By not placing any qualifiers on "fruits and vegetables with a variety of nuts are a flawless diet" you were saying that it was a "flawless diet" for anyone, by default, due to the nature of the language. The additional qualifiers you're now placing on the statement are either backpedaling, moving the goalposts, or both.

neandermagnon

The fruit content of the diet you are considering is the least of your concerns. How about essential fatty acids, amino acids, vitamins and minerals. The vegan diet is not healthy as a long term option.

It can be healthy (vegan, not raw vegan, as I am not sure how you would really get enough EAAs and have a paletable diet).

You can get all EFA, EAAs, vitamins and minerals with a vegan diet - it just takes more planning.

I believe you are correct; however, you probably would have to supplement with B12 at least and probably some others for optimal health. However, the OP I don't think has any idea so I wanted her to at least consider what she is about to undertake. I believe many people see a massive short term health benefit in a raw vegan diet by eliminating the crap they were eating, but in the long term hurt their health by eating raw vegan.

Yes I think a lot of people are totally mistaken (misled!) about the alleged health benefits and potential dangers of these diets.

IMO the problem is that there are a bunch of vegan propagandists who are not only pushing an unhealthy version of the vegan diet, they're also lying (or kidding themselves or are in denial) about what nutrition humans actually need, to justify the diet that they're eating. Fruitarians do the same thing, only a more extreme version of it. It's the same pattern of meeting criticism of the diet by denying that humans actually need what they're not getting from the diet.

I've yet to see a healthy version of the raw vegan diet. I have seen healthy versions of the regular vegan diet where cooking isn't considered as evil and the diet is supplemented with a small number of vitamins and minerals, many of which are found in fortified vegan foods, and careful attention is paid to getting all the nutrition needed, especially with regards to getting amino acids in the right balance.

Fact is that humans are omnivores and while it's possible to get enough nutrition on a vegan diet, a healthy vegan diet is an imitation of an omnivorous diet, i.e. similar macronutrient ratios, amino acid and fatty acid profiles and micronutrients in similar proportions to what you get on an omnivorous diet, plus supplementing some vitamins and minerals that can't be obtained from plant food at all. Staring from the premise that humans are herbivores then recommending the macros and micronutrients that a herbivorous diet would provide as ideal for humans is stupid and dangerous. But that's exactly what some of these raw vegans 80/10/10 vegans and fruitarians are doing.

Also the amount of people kidding themselves that their diet is healthy when it's not (from 80/10/10 vegans, raw vegans, fruitarians, the lot) is disturbing.

Sarauk2sf

The fruit content of the diet you are considering is the least of your concerns. How about essential fatty acids, amino acids, vitamins and minerals. The vegan diet is not healthy as a long term option.

It can be healthy (vegan, not raw vegan, as I am not sure how you would really get enough EAAs and have a paletable diet).

You can get all EFA, EAAs, vitamins and minerals with a vegan diet - it just takes more planning.

I believe you are correct; however, you probably would have to supplement with B12 at least and probably some others for optimal health. However, the OP I don't think has any idea so I wanted her to at least consider what she is about to undertake. I believe many people see a massive short term health benefit in a raw vegan diet by eliminating the crap they were eating, but in the long term hurt their health by eating raw vegan.

You can get fortified foods with B12 - but you are correct in that it is something to be mindful of.

However, I doubt most non vegans get all of their nutrients for optimal health, even though it's easier.

A balanced diet is a balanced diet, whether it includes animal based foods. That being said, being a vegan makes it harder, so I see no reason to be a vegan for other than ethical reasons.

mccindy72

This is how I understand it: A complete fruit is good nutrition. A juiced fruit is pretty much all sugar with some trace vitamins and minerals.

But most important of all - log what you eat and stay within a healthy calorie budget.

Um, no. A juiced fruit is the same as the complete fruit, except with the fiber removed. Unless you put some of the pulp back in the juice, in which case you have some of the fiber back. Juicing the fruit doesn't put more sugar in than there was in the whole fruit. It doesn't remove nutrients, either.

But the fiber is a good thing. That's one of the reasons we're told to eat fruit and vegetables. They are high in fiber.

there are many sources of fiber. You have some juiced fruits and some whole fruits, or some of both. There's nothing saying you only have to eat whole fruits and vegetables to get the nutrients from them. Moderation, remember? Toss some meat, bread and dairy in there and now you've got a well-rounded day. (Unless you're intolerant, now there's trouble.)

xmichaelyx

Oh Lord. First, start educating yourself BY yourself. Do your own research from valid sources. People will confuse the heck out of you.

This is really all that needs to be said. Read about everything, including raw, vegan, vegetarian, paleo, and keto, and then decide for yourself. Pay more attention to information that has peer-reviewed science to back it up, but don't assume that even THAT is 100% gospel, as new studies contradict old studies all the time (and very bad science can be peer-reviewed: see the China Study for an example).

Honestly, as a professional researcher, I've seen some threads on MFP with bad advice and people throwing out garbage science that they seem to think is scientific fact. But this thread is absolutely the worst I've ever seen.

The Fitness sub-Reddit might be a better place to ask questions like this. You'll still find plenty of anti-science, but their forum structure is much more self-correcting than MFP. http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/

tedrickp

of course there is, American government and society is so healthy and thin, with such low rates of cancer, compared to india or other more vegetarian countries. But hey the government of America would never lie to their people I'd strongly recommend you "consider the source".

To be fair the very study you quoted is German.

Also, the source is never as important as the scientific process and/or evidence. You should always look to find faults with either of the latter, because discounting a study due to source alone is lazy.

BigVeggieDream

Yes I think a lot of people are totally mistaken (misled!) about the alleged health benefits and potential dangers of these diets.

IMO the problem is that there are a bunch of vegan propagandists who are not only pushing an unhealthy version of the vegan diet, they're also lying (or kidding themselves or are in denial) about what nutrition humans actually need, to justify the diet that they're eating. Fruitarians do the same thing, only a more extreme version of it. It's the same pattern of meeting criticism of the diet by denying that humans actually need what they're not getting from the diet.

I've yet to see a healthy version of the raw vegan diet. I have seen healthy versions of the regular vegan diet where cooking isn't considered as evil and the diet is supplemented with a small number of vitamins and minerals, many of which are found in fortified vegan foods, and careful attention is paid to getting all the nutrition needed, especially with regards to getting amino acids in the right balance.

Fact is that humans are omnivores and while it's possible to get enough nutrition on a vegan diet, a healthy vegan diet is an imitation of an omnivorous diet, i.e. similar macronutrient ratios, amino acid and fatty acid profiles and micronutrients in similar proportions to what you get on an omnivorous diet, plus supplementing some vitamins and minerals that can't be obtained from plant food at all. Staring from the premise that humans are herbivores then recommending the macros and micronutrients that a herbivorous diet would provide as ideal for humans is stupid and dangerous. But that's exactly what some of these raw vegans 80/10/10 vegans and fruitarians are doing.

Also the amount of people kidding themselves that their diet is healthy when it's not (from 80/10/10 vegans, raw vegans, fruitarians, the lot) is disturbing.

My ex-wife thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail on a vegan diet, with no ill effects. She's been vegan for 20 years and her doctor said she's healthiest 45 year old she's ever cared for.