Dumpbells - more weight or more reps?

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  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    20 rep squat breathing program

    squat 1 x 20
    over head pull(extension) 1 x 20 (for stretch- not for weight- so keeping it around 25/30 lbs)
    OHP 3 x 12
    BB row 3 x 15
    Bench 3 x 12 (or 10 can't remember I have to mod mine)
    SL DL 1 x 15

    I'm on my final week- I'm at 170 lbs for 20 reps- I failed the attempt Monday- I made it to 15 or 16 I honestly cannot remember. I'll repeat that lift today.

    Well, I retract my previous statement, then. I assume that for you, even though it's 20 reps, it's still "lifting heavy." Do you only do this workout in a bulk period or can anyone work out like this?

    I'm just wondering what the benefit is to low reps, high weight, if other programs such as the one you mention also have proven results.

    I could just google it, I suppose, but I'm curious what you have to say on it.

    LOL- yes- 170 is definitely still heavy- my max squat is like 205- I have really rubbish squats. Up till a few months ago- 170 was like a 4-5 rep lift for me.

    I would not do this on any significant deficit- either a small deficit- or maintenance- or better bulk- it's a size/strength building program.

    The first 2 weeks are largely unsatisfying- you lift 3 times a week- and you are lifting at a great deal lower than your 5 RM (I started at 95 lbs- so warm up weight for me) and it was obviously laughable. But adding 5-10 lbs every lift- quickly push you up to doing literally 4 times what you were doing with the weight.

    Low reps high weight are really pushing strength-and usually there is little to no focus on size gains. I have done pyramid training with working sets of 1 set of 1 rep- to failure.

    this is the first time I've done a program like this. And it was totally contrary to everything I knew- but it's working on pushing my "base" for squatting up- as well as put on size for me. I think the reason this works is 1. mental pushing means a lot. 2. it's literally ONE set of 20. So I do 4 warm up sets- with low reps- and then straight to working. So you really have to work- and it doesn't matter how long it takes you to get there- you stand there huffing and dripping sweat till you finish.

    If you were pushing several sets of 20 and could completely them with ease- you wouldn't see the same gains.

    Again- this is the first time I've done this program- but I did enough research to know that over the course of 6 weeks you'll see results- it is a not a long term program- I have read that people like to alternate this with a standard strength program since you are primed to drop down to low low reps and push strength. (they said SS 5 x 5 was something ideal and people cycled between the two).

    I would encourage you to do more research on your own- there are a lot of ways to get different results- I need something to address my squats specifically and to get size AND strength- so this seemed like a good fit. Plus it fit into my bulking time line.
  • Myhaloslipped
    Myhaloslipped Posts: 4,317 Member
    first off they are "dumbbells" not dumpbells. lol.

    Weight will give you bulk and reps will definition.

    ummm....no sir

    Well, the first part is true...

    ...but yeah, the second part, bogus (although I can remember when this was popularly said in the 80s)

    :smile:
  • JMoore221979
    JMoore221979 Posts: 266
    And the guy brings in a guy on steroids when someone is clearly a beginner. Come on man!

    knowledge is power.

    there are clearly some educated people on here-chiming in- no reason why not to mention it to further the cause for education- I never said it to the OP- merely directing the comment specifically at a 20 rep comment.

    it's a well known program- with proven success.

    and gear isn't a quick fix- the man still probably works harder than you and I ever will in our life times.

    Wasn't saying it didn't work or that the guy doesn't work hard. Shoot you would be an idiot to spend the money on that stuff and not bust your butt. My point was that you brought in a guy that was admittedly a user. Could have just used the program. Most people that are newbies would have looked the guy up and dismissed the info based on that, that's all I was saying.
  • Roughgalaxy
    Roughgalaxy Posts: 219 Member
    Typically. reps vs weight give different results. More weight less reps will help with building more bulky muscle. More reps with less weight will build leaner muscle
  • moosegt35
    moosegt35 Posts: 1,296 Member
    first off they are "dumbbells" not dumpbells. lol.

    Weight will give you bulk and reps will definition.

    He did spell dumbbells correctly but the bottom part isn't even close to correct. High reps is more like cardio than lifting. Listen to the people suggesting 8-10 reps.
  • TampaExPat
    TampaExPat Posts: 29 Member
    I'm a big fan of the less reps, more weight philosophy. Regardless, not everything works the same for everybody. The key is to find something you can enjoy at least somewhat and stick with.

    As others have said, the most important thing is to make sure you're pushing yourself as hard as you can. So if you want to do 15 reps, it should be with a weight you can only do 15 reps at, and no more. Same thing if it's 5 reps. Just push yourself, and keep going up in weight, and you'll hit your goal.

    And don't worry about "bulking." You can't bulk without trying really really hard at it, and it requires more than lifting weights.

    Hope this helps! Feel free to add me as a friend if you're looking for support reaching your exercise goals.
  • moosegt35
    moosegt35 Posts: 1,296 Member
    Interesting, I had always heard that 20 reps was the goal and at that point you would increase weight.


    Yea, NO. If you can easily do 12 the weight is too light.
  • Holly_Roman_Empire
    Holly_Roman_Empire Posts: 4,440 Member
    Typically. reps vs weight give different results. More weight less reps will help with building more bulky muscle. More reps with less weight will build leaner muscle

    Hmm. I'd love to know the difference between bulky muscle and lean muscle.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Wasn't saying it didn't work or that the guy doesn't work hard. Shoot you would be an idiot to spend the money on that stuff and not bust your butt. My point was that you brought in a guy that was admittedly a user. Could have just used the program. Most people that are newbies would have looked the guy up and dismissed the info based on that, that's all I was saying.

    again- education is key- yes I could have- but no body knows the program as it is- I suppose I could have said Rippletoe- he has endorsed it as well.- I personally tend to not really count gear as a plus or minus in the programming issues to be honest- the work is still there. It's just not a big factor to me- I don't agree- and would never use- but it's not a debilitating factor when it comes to program or personal assessment for me.

    But anyone who dismisses a program because someone- somewhere along the who was on steroids was using it - also needs education, in the future for more newb oriented threads- perhaps a more natural source would have been better- I agree- saved the big names for other threads with other lifters- not a bad idea.

    But I wouldn't suggest the program to any newb- too much TOO MUCH!!!! just in for sharing the wealth- that's all.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Typically. reps vs weight give different results. More weight less reps will help with building more bulky muscle. More reps with less weight will build leaner muscle

    Hmm. I'd love to know the difference between bulky muscle and lean muscle.

    forget about that diet stuff that goes along with this as well. totally not relevant.
  • JMoore221979
    JMoore221979 Posts: 266
    Wasn't saying it didn't work or that the guy doesn't work hard. Shoot you would be an idiot to spend the money on that stuff and not bust your butt. My point was that you brought in a guy that was admittedly a user. Could have just used the program. Most people that are newbies would have looked the guy up and dismissed the info based on that, that's all I was saying.

    again- education is key- yes I could have- but no body knows the program as it is- I suppose I could have said Rippletoe- he has endorsed it as well.- I personally tend to not really count gear as a plus or minus in the programming issues to be honest- the work is still there. It's just not a big factor to me- I don't agree- and would never use- but it's not a debilitating factor when it comes to program or personal assessment for me.

    But anyone who dismisses a program because someone- somewhere along the who was on steroids was using it - also needs education, in the future for more newb oriented threads- perhaps a more natural source would have been better- I agree- saved the big names for other threads with other lifters- not a bad idea.

    But I wouldn't suggest the program to any newb- too much TOO MUCH!!!! just in for sharing the wealth- that's all.

    Totally agree. Good luck!
  • moosegt35
    moosegt35 Posts: 1,296 Member
    Typically. reps vs weight give different results. More weight less reps will help with building more bulky muscle. More reps with less weight will build leaner muscle

    More false info. Muscle is muscle, no such thing as a way to build lean muscle vs bulky muscle. All muscle is lean, bulk is just more of it. Now there are different rep, weight, sets, etc programs geared toward adding strength or mass but no such thing as building lean muscle VS bulky muscle.
  • Zaftique
    Zaftique Posts: 599 Member
    When I was in my 20s, I bought into the more reps low weight to look lean crap. I have those little 2 and 3 lbs dumbbells. They never did much for my body. My 4 and 5 years old "exercise" with them while I work out now.
    *stares at 3lb weights that are burning agony at 6 reps*

    Christ I'm weak. ^_^
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    When I was in my 20s, I bought into the more reps low weight to look lean crap. I have those little 2 and 3 lbs dumbbells. They never did much for my body. My 4 and 5 years old "exercise" with them while I work out now.
    *stares at 3lb weights that are burning agony at 6 reps*

    Christ I'm weak. ^_^

    heavy is relative to all people.
    If 3 lbs is a struggle for 6 reps- it's heavy.
    Keep working- it will get better!
  • Zaftique
    Zaftique Posts: 599 Member
    When I was in my 20s, I bought into the more reps low weight to look lean crap. I have those little 2 and 3 lbs dumbbells. They never did much for my body. My 4 and 5 years old "exercise" with them while I work out now.
    *stares at 3lb weights that are burning agony at 6 reps*

    Christ I'm weak. ^_^

    heavy is relative to all people.
    If 3 lbs is a struggle for 6 reps- it's heavy.
    Keep working- it will get better!

    Dib sez it best.

    tumblr_lymvrmDdQM1r6h95jo1_500.gif
  • feralX
    feralX Posts: 334 Member
    3lb DBs for 6 reps?

    Don't beat yourself up, everybody starts weak relatively speaking. Put in the work and the progress will come.
  • skinnyinnotime
    skinnyinnotime Posts: 4,078 Member
    Nothing wrong with taking sets to 20 reps or above, as long as you're taking them to complete muscle failure. You're far better off mixing up your rep ranges rather than always sticking to 8-10 or whatever you're accustomed to. Legs respond particularly well to high reps I find. Take a leg press to failure at 40 reps, rest then add weight and go for 30. Repeat for 8 sets total until last set you're down to 8-12 reps. By the end you've moved a lot more total weight than sticking with lower reps and hit failure 8 times, that's not a cardio workout. Works great for biceps and triceps too. At the end of an arm workout do cable curls or pushdowns (or superset them if you're really masochistic) for 20 reps or so to failure, immediately reduce the weight on the stack and go to failure again. Continue until you're arms are about to explode. Maybe finish off with a static contracted hold for 30 seconds at the end if you enjoy the punishment. Good chance you won't be able to lift your shaker to your mouth for a while because of the pump.

    Wow, sounds like pure torture!
  • loubidy
    loubidy Posts: 440 Member
    Personally I have a 6-10 reps rule. If I can do 10 reps with out thinking I'm going to die I go up a weight, as I get heavier I can only do 6 to start. If I can't manage even 6 reps then I stay at a lower weight a bit longer.

    I do 3 - 5 circuits in a session.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    Interesting, I had always heard that 20 reps was the goal and at that point you would increase weight.

    At 20 reps, it's practically a cardio exercise, not strength training.

    LOL tell Tom Platz that

    regularly threw in a 6 week 20 rep squat program- and his legs are arguably the best in the business- and he isn't even in the business any more
    [/quote]


    True about Platz, but he did that for hypertrophy, not strength. i won't say it's impossible to get stronger with 20 rep sets.....but it's impossible to get stronger with 20 rep sets. i mean, it would take me a month of sundays to increase 10 pounds at that rate.
  • ALNoog
    ALNoog Posts: 413 Member
    I do some of each. One day I'll do higher weights and lower reps and some days I'll do lower weights with higher reps. I mix it with cardio as well. Other days I walk. Some I do step aerobics. Some I jog.....
  • Thewatcher_66
    Thewatcher_66 Posts: 1,643 Member
    Something else I'd like to suggest to the OP. Try to do as few dumbbell exercises sitting down as possible. When you're doing strength workouts, your goal is to also work your core. Nothing irks me more when I see someone sitting on their butt while doing bicep curls. You're not working your core nor your abs very much and you're doing yourself a disservice. I try to do as many dumbbell exercises not only standing but in as many awkward (yet safe) positions as I can to get a full workout.

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